We need to talk about the "I'm not like other girls" problem in historical costume dramas 

Hey Everyone - Links to creators I mentioned are in the description and my works cited can be found here: www.patreon.com/posts/54867822 (also I feel like I need to say this because I'm slightly paranoid) - While I'm not a fan of the 2019 Little Women (for a variety of reasons, one of them being that the 1994 version is just my favorite movie of all time, so it's just like...not the same.) I really adored Anne with an E, even though I was frustrated by how they portrayed Ms. Stacy. They did a lot of wonderful things in the series (Aunt Jo 👑). Also, if you ever want me to cry on cue, just get me talking about Matthew (from either Anne with an E or Anne of Green Gables. My heart. I CANNOT 😭)

I went to a "Girls in STEM" seminar where they told us that if you dress your daughter in pink dresses, you can't be upset if they aren't into STEM. I am not particularly feminine myself, but I absolutely reject the idea that feminity and intelligence are mutually exclusive.

just a reminder from the book Anne of Green Gables “Anne took the dress and looked at it in reverent silence. Oh, how pretty it was - a lovely soft brown gloria with all the gloss of silk; a skirt with dainty frills and shirrings; a waist elaborately pintucked in the most fashionable way, with a little ruffle of flimsy lace at the neck. But the sleeves - they were the crowning glory! Long elbow cuffs, and above them two beautiful puffs divided by rows of shirring and bows of brown-silk ribbon.” This girl LOVED FASHION AND WAS AN ICON

ok but like when little women was written, Jo being “not like other girls” was ACTUALLY a big deal. a big fu to what society expected of women back then.

the way some people in the comments are calling these character masculine just because they're not hyperfeminine and say things like "embrace your inner feminity and womanhood💞🌺". no wonder masculine women feel alienated from other girls.

Edit: I’m talking about the book, not any of the series, just describing how I love that Anne isn’t just whimsical and doesn’t mind getting messy but is a girl who loves both the fancy things and the not fancy things which often feels rare for female characters where they seem to be divided into either indoors and fancy lady whos “girly” or imaginative and outdoors whos “tomboy”. It’s cool there’s a young girl who is both and has many sides to her. Even in the book Anne of Green Gables I’m pretty sure there’s long paragraphs of Anne/the narrator talking all about puffed sleeves, I’ve always loved how Anne was shown to be a rough and tough, artsy kid while still wanting to look beautiful and feminine. It’s interesting that the book was published in 1908 and still is very relatable for young women who want to get messy and be artistic and imaginative and still want to present very feminine and care about their appearances

There’s a real skinny bias to that whole “corsets are for sheep, I’m a Progressive Modern Woman” stereotype. If the experiences of busty women with their bras are anything to judge by, I have to imagine that busty women in ye olden days were not champing at the bit to throw out their most supportive garment, no matter how feminist their leanings.

One of the annoying things I’ve had to deal with since the surge of people making fun of ‘notlikeothergirls-girls’ is that people now make fun of girls and me (currently unsure on that front) for expressing liking things that aren’t traditionally feminine. I wasn’t comparing myself to anyone- i don’t look down on girls who like traditionally feminine things, i just don’t enjoy partaking in them myself. Why do people continually seek to pit people against each other? Feminine and non-feminine women are not intrinsically diametrically opposed.

You somehow managed to watch a movie in which the main character gives a whole speech about respecting women and a tv show with a multi-episode arc about protecting and defending women's right to bodily autonomy and came away with "they're Not Like Other Girls because they don't conform to gender roles." Incredible.

I know it's not a historical drama, but this is exactly why Elle Woods in Legally Blonde is a legend

Despite the other issues with historical dress in Enola Holmes, I love her strategic use of femininity as camouflage. In the books, she addresses this specifically, that dressing as a boy is a bit of a cliche, and her brothers will be expecting it, so instead she will disappear by becoming beautiful.

Jo was written like that in the book. She's loosely based on Louisa May Alcott. She is supposed to be that way. Gentleman Jack is also based on a real person who dressed that way and was not feminine at all. She wasn't like other women of the time.

Anne With an E is my favorite show, and I love the book. I would usually get mad at someone talking ‘bad’ about it (which I know that you are not necessarily talking bad). I love almost everything about Anne With an E, and from the first season, when she longs for puffed sleeves and the latest fashions, I thought that it would be mostly historical accurate. But then in season 3, she makes the comment about the corset. I was really disappointed with the writers for adding that in, that just wasn’t in character for Anne. If Anne loved her puffed sleeves, Diana’s dresses, her blue dress in the final episode, than it is shown how unlike Anne it is to bring down a corset, that was never even talked about in her time. I love Anne With an E more than any show, but this part just really made me mad. But on another note, most of the outfits in AWAE are historically accurate. The the fashion designers did an incredible job, but it was the writers who messed it up. (Sorry this was so long lol) Okay, I’m here a year later and I just realized something about Anne’s corset that she wears (when she was going to the orphanage). The corset she wears here wasn’t made for her body. I also believe that it also wasn’t the same type of corset that girls start wearing when they are here age. In the last episode, however, she puts on her own corset that she gets to wear at college, and she doesn’t have anything to say about it. So, maybe she only thought it was uncomfortable because it wasn’t made for her.

I often feel that the „not like other girls“ in historical movies/ fiction is also meant as a tool to strengthen our belief that we live in a much more advanced society today. When the character - and often the character alone - conveys thoughts that are „common knowledge“ today (corsets being bad for example) it might make us feel good about ourselves, because of what we as a society have achieved since those dark days. An insidious feeling, because it glosses over what we have not achieved.

My pet peeve is the girl who doesn't sew because she's not like other girls. That's like a modern woman who doesn't know how to do dishes. It's not quirky, it's a lack of a basic life skill.

Not many people can be bothered to read the book, Little Women, but I have done. Jo’s clothing is actually described quite a lot throughout the books, as are all the sisters. She’s only ever described as wearing men’s clothing when they’re doing their plays, which are only ever performed in private among family and very intimate friends. However, she is often described as wearing styles or clothing that are considered strange or off-trend, but not excessively so. She wears a huge wide brimmed hat on a picnic, and it’s definitely off trend but the context makes it clear this is considered a silly choice rather than a socially transgressive fashion choice. There’s also the point of the story when she cuts off her her hair and styles it like a man’s hair. This is probably the most socially transgressive thing Jo does to her appearance, and she only does it because she sells her hair to get money so her mother can travel across country to care for her wounded and ill father fighting for the union in the US civil war. So the circumstances were very extreme, and that’s probably why she could get away with it. Other than that, Jo always wears dresses. She does have a nasty habit of ripping/burning/trashing them in general, though.

"he took her tape and put it on display to make money off of it, that's how shocking she was" No, that's how disgusting he was.

THANK YOUU for adding in the bloomer rant 🙌🏻🙌🏻

I think another important point in regards to Bloomers, is that they aren't actually based on male dress. They're based on Turkish women's dress. These women were not, in their original intention, denouncing femininity or whatever garbage. It was just interpreted as that later

I'm sorry but if you go and say that Anne with an E perpetrates the 'no like the other girls' stereotype I can only think that you entirely missed the point of the whole show. One of the many things that awae did wonderfully was exactly celebrating women as multifaceted beings and their individuality, no matter how different they may be one from the other. No one ever put down other girls in the show for liking corsets and feminine things, there is no 'other girls'. There are different women with different personalities and preferences and they're all valid for it. awae Anne loves dresses, puffed sleeves, and flowers, and all things feminine, she just doesn't love a corset for her. Maybe it's time to accept that just like not everyone hated/hates corsets, not everyone likes them either. People are allowed to feel uncomfortable while wearing tight, rigid clothing, and not appreciate 'the support' (just like Aunt Josephine says to Anne in that scene you used in the clip). Some might find it comfortable, but that doesn't mean that it's the same for everyone, and whether you like wearing one or not it's ok. The point is that it's not ok to be forced to dress a certain way and be criticized for choosing for yourself. I don't see how condemning women for not wanting to wear a corset and accusing them of suffering from the 'not like the other girl' syndrome is any more helpful than condemning them for wanting to wear one.

you know mocking women who dont conform to perfect femininity is pick me behavior and indicative of an im not like other girls attitude in itself. masculine women are not inherently misogynistic just by choosing a different form of expression, and butches have actually been around for a while. this is a weird take.

This reminds me of my favorite knitting book, when the author talks about how she realized that by dismissing traditionally female activities, feminists of her age were actually supporting the idea that "women's work" was inferior to "men's work." She talked about the need to value tradionally female activities as equally legitimate uses of time and energy. Thoroughly enjoyed this video - thanks!

Not historical but I once read a really good and interesting article looking at Dolly Parton as a feminist icon. Its basis was that she was someone who had fully embraced her femininity, and actually used it to her advantage while still being a powerful and very successful businesswoman, all without having to resort to traditional masculine tropes. Don't think I'm explaining that well but I thought it was a worth point. Masculinity or masculine expression should not be seen as the only or definitive concept of what it means to be strong, powerful or independent.

I feel it’s a little unfair to put an expectation of representing a movement for women’s rights in a way that people of her historical time and place will find palatable onto a fictional character who is struggling to meet her goal of becoming a writer. Especially because she seemed to have such a hard time getting published in part because people didn’t really take her seriously.

I don’t want to be rude, but the statement of “historically feminist women dressing masculine was too distracting and disrupting for society” is kind of talking against the point of masculinity in women being celebrated? I might have missed something, though!

Great points. As a woman in tech, too many of the guys were only ok with tomboys. Femininity gave them the vapors.

I'm pretty sure part of the basis of 'not like other girls' being lauded by men, is only valid for women who are attractive. In my many years of life I've seen 'unconventional' women disliked by both males and females and harshly excluded. I will grant that there are some instances where 'being one of the boys' is accepted, but it usually comes with some pretty harsh limitations (primarily acceptance only in very narrow areas). Although I understand that this was sparked by films and television and it's specifically about feminism, most women who are 'not like other girls' in the media, are at worst, Hollywood ugly and if they were plain or unattractive I believe they would be disavowed by both sides. I'd really like to see a world where you are allowed to express your particular taste in clothing or personal grooming without being ostracized by either side. I'm glad women are embracing the right to be completely 'feminine', but I wish those women who do not want to participate in the clothing/makeup rituals were accepted as well.

While I understand the frustration about the corset comment from Anne in Anne with and E, I can actually forgive that more than others. She didn't rant about it being a torture device, just an off handed remark that she wasn't sure why she had been so excited to wear one. It really reminded me about when I got my first bra. I actually did a good deal more complaining about my first bra(which is funny thinking back since it was basically a baby sports bra and couldn't be much more comfortable) than Anne did about her corset.

It’s not a NLOG trope when the characters - and often real people (like Anne Lister) were actively pushing against the societal standards for women in both behavior and dress.

In the UK (we have uniforms for school in about 98% of schools) there have been a lot of 'gender neutral uniform policies' introduced in the past few years. Usually this comes after boys protest not being allowed to wear shorts in hot summer weather while girls are allowed skirts or school dresses. Or after girls have protested being forced to wear skirts (usually above the knee pleated situations) and long socks or tights (not the good wooly kind) in winter. Some schools still don't allow girls to wear trousers (which is technically illegal). Unfortunately the 'gender neutral' uniform is usually the 'boys' uniform. So instead of allowing everyone the option of skirts or shorts or trousers, the option for traditionally feminine clothing is removed entirely, because obviously boys shouldn't have the option to wear skirts that would be outrageous (heavy sarcasm, and I see you Scotland). Which I feel definitely feeds into the idea that traditionally feminine clothing is lesser and only a certain vain type of woman would choose to wear them.

Someone once pointed out that if Persephone can be Queen of the Underworld AND the Goddess of Spring, then so can you. So can HE. So can THEY. I'm a Southern belle but my sister was born and raised in the Bronx. We heavily influenced each other. Both of us can make you tea when you call on us, but also fight you for talking smack. "Clutch your pearls!" is a well-known Southern phrase that means someone has not acted like a lady, but she and I coined the phrase, "The pearls are coming off!" to indicate we're about to throw down.

I totes get the idea behind this and I’m all for the basic premise but it does feel like a struggle to sit through what feels like poor reading of the source materials for Little Women! Much of the novel is semi-autobiographical and it’s pretty weird to hear you say “this wouldn’t happen” while I’m plopped in Alcott country with Louisa’s ghost going “am I a joke to you?” in her fucked up hair and very socially inappropriate outfits. Makes it hard to want to hear the rest of the analyses.

Wollstonecraft isn't a feminist? lol what is wrong with you. Also using a picture of ANNE LISTER on the prev pic of the video? Yea I guess it's pretty cringey and "not like other girls" to be a lesbian gender non conforming woman. Give me a break. You can love historical fashion, acknowledge that corsetts weren't literal torture instruments and still recognize historical and sociopolitical context. It's not that hard. Fashion is always an expression of societal developments and I feel kinda weird having to tell that a youtube whos literal job is talking about historical fashion. So ignoring that context for the sake of "just feeling good and fangirling" over fashion is incredibly short sighted. Again: You can adore, wear, talk about historical fashion all you like. It's fine, it's wonderful, I do it too. But ignoring the voices of women who actually lived in that time and calling feminists "cringey" because you feel hurt that they aren't validating your hobby is... something else. Recognizing the problematic aspects of historical fashion is not the same as hating historical fashion.

First off, your re-enactment of "the corset scene" was brilliant. My feelings on the "not like other girls" trope is a bit complicated. Growing up, I found it very difficult to relate to many of my female classmates, because I was not into typically girly things like makeup, fashion, romance stories, etc. Most of the typical teenage girl interests struck me as shallow and very focused on attracting male attention, which to my mind was anti-feminist. Teenage me was a total nerd who played quiz bowl, tried to actively defy what I perceived as sexist expectations for me to look pretty and be "girly", and had a lot of male friends. I have literally been described as "not like other girls". As I have gotten older, I have started to realize that women can have typically feminine interests without those interest being about conforming to sexist gender norms or desperately getting male validation. Obviously this isn't a shocking revelation, but after dealing with girls in high school who said things like "only ugly girls care about feminism", I had a strong distrust of girly interests. So I agree that the "not like other girls" trope is misogynistic, but I can also see why it appeals to so many girls that feel like they don't fit in. It takes the thing that makes you an outsider and turns it into a positive trait.

Rejecting "feminine" things isn't masculine, though. I hate wearing uncomfortable bras and I hate the pressure to act apologetic and unsure when expressing myself, and that has nothing to do with masculinity, that's HUMAN. Humans don't like discomfort or inauthenticity. In much of history, women were restricted to a teeny sliver of life and the entire remainder of human experience was designated "for men." So when women acted too fully human-- thinking, creating, participating in public, objecting to abuse-- it was wrongly considered "masculine." I hate that this still goes on today (e.g. once shoes start being functional they're "masculine" instead of just shoes, body hair that grows there naturally is "masculine" instead of just your body). And if you point this out suddenly it's some sort of attack on other women. It's gotten to the point where if a woman says "cultural pressure to wear makeup has hurt me," a horde of other feminists will swoop in to defend the makeup, not the woman. We're all ok with critiquing elements of "masculinity" as toxic, but we need to be able to critique femininity as well when it's toxic (to us, not just others), without being called misogynists. Miss Stacey in Anne With An E didn't do anything "masculine," nor did Jo; they were just uncouth, freethinking and frumpy (qualities that are not at odds with being a woman nor imply that you reject other women).

Defining femininity with "looking good/caring about your appearance" only feeds into not only misogyny but consumerism. Human beings in general want to have good hygiene but all of these trends that determine what makes someone "look good" come from companies... idk. Always rubs me the wrong way this over association with femininity and being shallow.

I feel like the harsh criticism of Jo's dress in the 2019 adaptation of Little Women ignores that Amy is presented as just as much of a forward thinking, intelligent, and ambitious young woman. They foil each other in their explorations of how women could find power, influence, and happiness during their time.

Here’s the thing: It’s literally part of the book (and of Louisa May Alcott’s life) is that Jo did NOT live within the bounds of her society and she WAS punished for it!!!! When she and Amy go to call on people, Jo is said to have her hair lose and messy and to wear a manly jacket, and this is the reason why Aunt May doesn’t take her to Europe, because a lot of women HAVE been revealing against gender norms since forever (see the Sweet Polly Oliver) and they ALSO get punished for it! To say that the Bloomer movement was doom to fail because it is too contrarian and we need to change society from the inside is honestly a bit insulting, because it relies in respectability politics, those women, like women today, should have been allowed to be masculine! And Louisa May Alcott actually talked about this herself! And I say this as a very feminine woman: Society does hate femininity, but it hates gender non comforming women even more

When I was in college, someone actually told me that I was an "unusual feminist" for liking dresses and heels. I've been pushing back against the idea that feminist can't be feminine ever since.

as a butch woman this whole video felt so 😬😬😬anyways gnc women always existed always will exist and not all of us give a shit abt being liked or accepted by society and why would we?also the "trickle down" politics thing dont work love

Look I have to defend the 2019 version of little women because it is the only version in my opinion to get her character right with costume, because Jo is not “not like other girls” she is a tomboy, she is gender non conforming, because that’s just naturally her way. She doesn’t shit on other girls by rejecting femininity she just feels restricted by it. The way the 2019 version has her incorporate menswear is quite brilliant in my opinion and shows way more character than how other versions of the story where she is just dressed a bit more plain compared to her sisters. The 94’s director actively choose to portray Jo as NOT a tomboy but as a geek/theatre kid, which I actually think it’s kind of a disservice to her character to not make her a tomboy, it kind of erases a big part of her character, femininity is demonized by media yes but women who don’t fit into it are demonized too, and Jo is a character who goes through hardship because she doesn’t fit into the social parameters of femininity

It’s perfectly doable to represent masculine women without also negging on feminine women. It’s also a much richer conversation to do so.

One thing that I would say in defense of the 2019 Little Women is that they made the other sisters much more badass, strong, and multifaceted than I often see them portrayed. Especially Amy. So when Jo’s more masculine portrayal is taken in combination with the elevation of the other girls as main characters in their own right, it feels less like a rejection of femininity and more like an intentional diversification of what “femininity” means. Something that is varied enough to encapsulate Jo’s menswear AND Meg’s longing for high fashion silks she can’t afford AND Amy’s utilitarian employment of her femininity for her own self advancement AND Beth’s simple modesty. Is it historically accurate? No. But I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss it as “not like other girls” misogyny either.

I would argue that the "I'm not like other girls" attitude jo (2019) has is kind of the point? because meg and amy, who embody more typically female roles, put jo in her place for belittling their dreams and behaviour ("just because my dreams are different to yours doesn't mean they're unimportant") and at the end of the film, jo has fully embraced the domestic (feminine) sphere with the public (masculine) sphere by writing her book (masculine) about family life (feminine) whilst running a school (masculine) with her family (feminine). This can be seen with her clothes; throughout the film she dresses more masculine, until the very last scene where her mode of dress is distinctly more feminine (apron, pink dress, necklace etc). In other words, she has fulfilled her potential and ultimate happiness through the embodiment of both gender performances i.e., not subscribing to one binary, allowing her to see the value in both.

i feel we've basically gone full circle with the 'not like other girls' conversation lol ngl i liked dunking on nlogs at first, it felt cathartic to mock my 'dumb teen self' (who was just repressing the fact that i actually did like traditionally feminine stuffs) but nowadays we're just ignoring the fact that while yes, 'feminine girls' can more often than not be mocked, (and 'traditionally femine interest are seen as lesser than men's) its nowhere as bad as the way 'masculine girls'/ nongender-confoming girls are treated. this video does make good point but some stuffs i just couldn't get behind (the bloomer rant..) and mainly im really tired of this subject lol we're just rehashing the same talking points - i just dont think (anymore) that nlogs are as deeply rooted in misogyny as it is stated here. as some previous comments said some women just don't like the conform to 'traditional gender norms' and some are just neurodivergent too!

As a divorcee in my 40s who is now a grad student studying forensics (chemistry/psychology), I have to say that I related to this more than I expected to. Many students on campus rely on jeans/t-shirts/hoodies in large part to deal with variable weather and being outside to walk from building to building. It's also just more comfortable. For some reason, this whole female-studying-masculine-topics thing expressed itself in my study accessories. I would make sure my notebooks, 3-ring binders, backpack, etc. were usually black or gray. I distinctly remember thinking that I did not want to stand out as "too feminine." I was not attempting to be quirky or not-like-the-other girls. I was denying myself. That is never a good thing! Why? As time went on, I noticed there were often as many if not more women in my traditional science classes/labs than men. We were there, and we were clearly well-represented in number. Why not use a pastel-colored spiral notebook? Why not use other study materials that may have been considered more feminine in design/print? If we liked it, then we should use it! Using a notebook with a beautiful floral print on the cover did not detract from my intelligence. Instead, its beauty made me smile for a moment before getting to work on my studies. I don't know where I got this idea from of denying my femininity. Perhaps, it was from shows/movies you were referring to. I love historical dramas! I also agree that these tropes have slowly crept into these shows over the past few years. The point is that denying my love of beauty, even traditionally feminine beauty, was a denial of part of myself. So, I started buying more feminine items--and no one cared! More importantly, it made me happy. I realize that I may be taking this topic and stretching it to the extreme, but I believe we should embrace who we are. Being a woman is a very powerful and beautiful thing! Denying who we are to make some point does nothing (your example of the bloomers comes to mind). Wherever it is that we get these ideas, I agree with you, Abby! It is not helpful. It is not necessary. Frankly, it is a denial of who we are as women which is a beautiful thing. It should be embraced, not disregarded--even with something as silly as notebooks or other school accessories. Thanks again, Abby! This video helped me realize part of what I had been doing years ago, and I am so glad that I stopped that silliness a long time ago.

What annoys me about this "not like other girls" trope is that there are almost always things to gripe about in current fashion, and ways to differ against prevailing fashions that are true to the period. You don't have to drag in some anachronistic gripe about corsets when people at the time were talking about some fad from Paris, or how the fashions of the 1800s made people who grew up in the 1780s feel almost naked.

I read an interesting account of I think Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Apparently she loved the bloomers for practical reasons because she found it difficult and dangerous to carry a baby up the stairs while wearing long skirts and carrying a candle. It wasn't to be "not like the other girls" like movies would suggest. It was just that she had things to do where long skirts got in the way.

Lol if a woman in a period drama is masculine/gender non-conforming and/or wants something outside of marriage/motherhood, she's a 'not like the other girls'? Lmao

Lady Taylor of Swift: "She wears corsets, I wear bloomers."

When I was a kid, I called myself a tomboy in a dress because I loved wearing froofy dresses, but I was also active and a dork. I'm pretty sure every girl is "not like other girls" - we're all boss and awesome. And dorky. Can't forget dorky.

Well but isnt fighting for gender fluidity in clothes, by wearing clothes that aren’t specifically looked at as feminine at the time, Feminist?

For the last time: you are not oppressed for being traditionally feminine. You are literally conforming to the norms that society expects of women. It's fine to be a feminine woman, but don't try to act like masculine women are a misogynistic evil.

Megan Follows and the 80s versions of Anne are the very best! I LOVED the movies as a kid (watched them on VHS in the late 90s) and still love them to this day (bought them over the years on VHS and DVD at thrift stores).

Have you ever considered doing a video about mourning attire? I’ve wondered about this after watching Downton (I believe that’s s1e1) vs. Sense and Sensibility (especially the 2008 BBC version). I assume the social mores for mourning would change over time, but who gets it right?

Mary Wollestonecraft was a 'quote unquote feminist'?

This definition of "misogyny' because women complain about corsets in movies is ridiculous. The first time I saw a movie scene about corset tightening was in "Gone with the Wind", which was written by a woman who was alive and had older family members during the corset era. There is a line in one of the Laura Ingalls Wilders books about how a younger sister wanted to wear a corset and older sister said be thankful you aren't old enough, you won't like it. It wan't something made up by men recently.

Agree with some points, hard disagree with some of the insinuations here that rubbed me the wrong way. I agree that putting down feminine women is bad, and there are ways for historical female characters to be feminists fitting to their contexts without the fem hating and pushing our modern day ideas about what a feminist is on them. But I disagree that female characters rejecting femininity for themselves is inherently anti-feminist and a women being masculine is “too historically inaccurate.” Our society prioritizes and values masculine men above all, and alienates the others. It hates women who are invested in fashion, dresses, makeup, romance, family, etc. People need to understand femininity is not opposed to feminism, professionalism, and capability. “Strong female characters” putting down feminine women and the ultra feminine characters being portrayed as weak, mean, and stupid is actually really harmful. The demonization of the corset and lack of understanding about tight-lacing not being the norm, and the support and range of mobility a corset could actually provide is pretty frustrating. And the idea that a “relatable progressive woman in a historical drama” must be a corset and skirt hater bc we’re so much smarter and better now than historical women is eye-roll worthy. It’s true that many of the female historical figures who accomplished great things or were forward thinking dressed rather conventionally feminine, girly girls get shit done. However I don’t see the problem with how Jo 2019 presented (besides the costuming/styling historical inaccuracy). I loved her masculine dress emphasizing her textual tomboyishness, her subtextual or latent queerness, and LMA’s own gender-nonconformist life. I don’t think Jo being masculine is anti-feminist especially when Marmee, Meg, and Amy are allowed to be feminine, independent, and complex characters without being bashed. Amy is an important character and definitely a feminist character too, so I don’t think the movie is saying “girly bad, boy good.” A woman rejecting femininity while fem bashing is bad, but Jo isn’t doing that. Jo, a canonical tomboy, being more masculine in this movie isn’t an attack on femininity. You acknowledge that some women did dress masculine in the past, but I caution against saying that a female character rejecting femininity for herself is “too historically inaccurate” and “anti-feminist actually.” How could you acknowledge that George Sand existed but then say Jo and Ms. Stacy were too much? Look up Dr. Mary Edwards Walker, Rosa Bonheur, and Ria Brodell’s research in “Butch Heroes” for even more examples. Not all women actually cared about respectability politics, nor should they now. Some historical women did in fact reject corsets and skirts! It was really hard to live like this bc of super ingrained sexism and sumptuary laws that made crossdressing illegal, but just because they weren’t the norm and you couldn’t find many examples doesn’t mean that women like that didn’t exist and can’t exist in our fiction. We cannot ignore that in a majority of cultures all around the world, a degree of femininity for women is still the norm. I’m seeing comments like “Women, don’t be scared of femininity” and “We need to make traditional femininity acceptable again” like HELLO? What world are you living in? The world still largely pressures women to dress femininely, wear makeup, have long hair, be pretty, shave, have feminine jobs, be a wife, have kids, and harshly punishes those who are GNC. Most women represented in media lean towards feminine, there’s not some femininity deficiency in media. For those of us who are tired of having femininity shoved down our throats, rejecting it and taking up space as tomboys or masculine isn’t supposed to be an attack on femininity but empowerment for ourselves. We need to be careful about how we talk about gender-non conformity and masculinity in women so we’re not alienating them.

I feel like we're almost circling around from "femininity is OK actually" to like, arguing for respectability politics.

This criticism of Little Women 20 vs 94 is without reference. Actually, Louisa May Alcott said her mother, who Marmee is molded from, very much disliked corsets....so it would make perfect sense that the characters would choose not to wear corsets... Also, Jo actually says that she and Laurie switch clothing items IN THE BOOK.... Sooo.... What are your triggers and why do they trigger you? Hmmm?

"You have to fit in and then make changes." Actually I've long believed that the existence of more extreme activists makes moderate activism seem more reasonable and therefore more effective. We need both, IMO.

As always, the great summary is a female dressing more “male-like” to signify independence and progression… in other words, we should replace our femininity with masculinity 💔💔 What i specially love about the times we are curren living in is that females are less apologetic about their femininity (or what traditionally is sold to us as feminine things and behavior) and we have finally started to realize that there is nothing wrong with pink and skirts, and femininity comes in a lot of “flavors” 💜💜💜💜

I snorted so hard at the reenactment with Nicole 🤣🤣! Thank you for this rant. It’s beautifully said, and obviously meticulously researched, and an important reminder that feminism is not exclusive of or the antithesis of femininity (as well as many other points). I was (and am, I guess) always described as a tomboy. It’s always troubled me that female intelligence was associated with tomboyish dress, social awkwardness, and complete ineptitude with makeup, hair, fashion, crafting/sewing, etc. That information was so ingrained that I was well into my twenties before people I had known my whole life learned I could knit, crochet, sew, tat, paint, and had been doing so pretty much from the age of five. I had hidden everything “girly” about myself, for fear of not being taken seriously (took a wee bit of therapy to unpack all that). I didn’t realize how deep and widespread that trope really is, though. It was always movies like “Some Kind of Wonderful” and “She’s All That” that got to me. I hope you have a marvelous weekend with your friend. Being able to share space and time with loved ones is such a gift (thank you, plague-vaccine!!), and is one of the very best medicines (laughter is #1) for both our mental and physical health. Love, light and blessings, as always.

What I hate about "not like other girls" is that they're "not like other girls" because of misogyny, and not like, they like their hobbies, thats what caught their attention, they grew up in that environment, etc. Like what on earth do corsets and bras have to do with it?? My sister had more toy cars than dolls growing up, not because dolls were girly, but because 5 dollars could either be used to buy 1 doll, or 5 toy cars, and she wanted more toys for her money, so toy cars it was. She played sports all throughout school because she LOVED running around, it just happened that boys were more interested in sports than girls. Everything she did wasn't to actively not be like other girls, she was rolling to the beat of her own drum and there aren't enough positive portrayals of that in media.

I get that the RU-vidrs that say corsets are not uncomfortable have worn them, but a lot of modern women don't even like wearing bras. I tried a dress with boning once. That didn't work.

Not to mention that Miss Stacy was totally into clothing too. There's a point (I can't remember if it was in the books or the 80's films) where Anne actually relates guiltily how much she liked clothes and how she would rather be pretty than smart and Miss Stacy laughs and admits to having had the same feeling when she was younger. Anne is shocked because she thinks Miss Stacy is beautiful and there's a moment of reflection that seems to reassure Anne and give her hope that she can have both. Actually, it might have been the preacher's wife now that I'm thinking about it, but I'm pretty sure the 80's movie just like... combined the two. So it could be I'm just putting different scenes together in my mind. Someone let me know if they have a better memory than me.

Me being “not like the other girls” in a class that was over 80% girls (small school) turned out to be me being “not like the other kids” in that I’m autistic. I was very much “one of the girls” in terms of gender presentation, and have worn dresses and skirts pretty much exclusively for over a decade now.

Where I agree with a lot of this video, the idea that you have to fit in to make change sounds like apologist nonsense to me.

Have you even read Little Women? There are numerous points in the novel in which it discuses Jo's rejection of social norms. There is a least one full chapter in which she makes calls with Amy in the second part of the book that goes into great detail about her refusal to wear fashionable "appropriate" clothing. I loved the 90's Little Women but the 2020's version is more true to Jo's character from the source material.

I think the problem lies in the difference between “I’m not like other girls” and “I don’t feel the need to be like everybody else.” Or even more common, “I’m not like other people. I’m an outsider not by choice, but by inclination or a flat inability to conform.” Some of this is a “I’m not Neurotypical” message couched in other terms due to a lack of understanding. The most interesting people aren’t really much like anyone else, IMO. The odd and oblique, the strange and diverse. Eclectic tastes and interests. People with whom a conversation can literally circle a world of subjects before coming back around to the starting point. And of course the media distortions and sheer laziness in relying on simplistic tropes are a factor. Odd how while Hollywood has been selling us on the notion that quirkiness is good for generations now, an appreciation for it hasn’t bloomed in the population at large. We’re desperately trying to find ways to “cure” it.

I was in my teens in the early 2000s and I knew so many girls with this holier than thou attitude about not being like other girls and it was funny to see how they weren’t aware of how toxic they were acting. God forbid you tell them they were in the wrong too.

I feel Anne’s corset comment is more about her simply not being used to it. When we were tweens, we had training bras, which had us getting used to wearing a bra, but Anne and her peers didn’t really have ‘training corsets’ so it’s more of a not being used to it rather than “corsets are the devil!!!” Bras are annoying, and we complain about them, so it’s just the equivalent of it.

What if Jo would wear loose clothing because it was more comfy? I mean. She never makes an statement about fashion. She just do her thing.

These are some really good points about lazy storytelling through "masculine" clothing for women. Beyond clothing, though, I think what we call the "not like other girls" trope can be doing more complex things specifically for queer characters. Queer girls are/were not like other girls, because girlhood is/was always imagined at heterosexual (or at the very least, inevitably heterosexual ie the allowance of young women's romantic friendships that are expected to be put aside for marriage eventually). In Gentleman Jack, Anne is CONSTANTLY pointed out to be different than other women - driving the coach, collecting her rents. While I agree that 2019 Little Women falls deeply short of historical realism in costuming, I think they did two very good things that complicate the way you're reading their use of the trope here. First, I think they leaned a lot more into Jo's latent queerness, which connects so deeply with Louisa May Alcott's queerness. Second, they did SO MUCH WORK to show the ways all of the sisters are negotiating the expectations and limitations of womanhood at the time - Meg struggling to reconcile her desires for fashionable clothing with her desire to do good in the world, Amy recognizing her position in the marriage market, Jo wanting to work for her money. The 94 version feels much more like an exploration of individual desires and the 19 version one of those desires tapped into what we recognize as a more systemic feminist viewpoint. Both, I think, are important ways of telling stories. Anyway, I think your point on the over-reliance on this trope in costuming is important! I also think we can broaden the way we read some of these characters to recognize that rejecting some feminine expectations has sometimes been one of the few ways of living queerly for women.

I'm french. In 2012, my sister's school tried to forbid skirts... One parent send a letter explaining that this rule was illegal since there was still a law stating that women were not allowed to wear pants. 🤣 Of course, this law was no longer applied for decades, but apparently, nobody took the time to abolish it. It made us laugh, we were almost sad when we learned that stupid law was finally abolished in 2013. It was quite a fun fact to tell to strangers... 😁

I'm relieved that other people in the comments felt off about this video too. Normally I like discussing where NLOG mentalities come from amd recently moved on from my own NLOG mentality, but this video kind of made me feel like garbage for being masculine.

There’s a reason Wollstonecraft is telling women not to be obsessed with clothing and luxuries, it’s because men at the time were rejecting luxuries to assert their masculinity and their very superior Britishness, which to them, gives them the right to stay in power. That’s why you always see men saying shit like, “ladies Adore their Fashionable cloathes whych is normall and Just so” But if women also reject pretty things and wear something simple like the three piece suit men grow so fond of, they no longer have a reason to tell women they can’t be part of the political sphere. So what Wollstonecraft is saying, is stop wasting your energy with fashion and use it to take your rights as a woman.

I don't think little woman (2019) with girly bad boy good entirely makes sense considering that Amy is just as progressive, has the progressive wedding rant and is highly feminine and into girly things. Jo was more being made to be like LM Alcott who did talk in letters about wanting to be a man (whether literally or not).She also in the book is always a mess, wears men's jackets and would wear trousers but her mother won't let her. So the idea that it's a ridiculous modern contortion is wrong. Also it's the 1994 version that actually has Marmie go on a rant about restrictive corsettes.

First, hard agree that how a person dresses is not necessarily indicative of their character traits and it is absolutely true that you can dress in a traditionally feminine manner while still being progressive and feminist. I also see why women striving for change may have deliberately worn clothing that was considered socially acceptable in order not to detract from their message. BUT. There is a difference between the choices a person striving to make social change makes and the choices a person who is simply trying to express themselves makes. The first might choose to sacrifice personal style choices for the sake of gaining acceptance of their message, the second may be actively trying to distinguish themselves as their own person and their clothing helps them do that. Additionally, while the NLOG trope may tend to follow a particular sartorial formula that is somewhat problematic, it also happens to be one of the few instances in which girls who do NOT want to dress in a traditionally feminine way can see themselves in mainstream media. This was not something that was on my radar until I was raising a girl (currently 9 years old) who fit into that category. She is angry at the societal norms for the ways women are expected to dress (why, for instance, does she have to wear a shirt when it’s hot out and boys don’t) and I fully expect her to be utterly resigned if she ever ends up wearing a bra for comfort reasons (ie if her particular anatomy makes it uncomfortable to play sports without a bra). NLOG stories are much more reflective of how she currently sees herself and how she wants to dress than a “girl power who dresses in a feminine way” narrative. I think it’s important to have NLOG historical costume dramas where the character dresses differently from the societal norm because it provides a sense of belonging to a group with its own history (you are not weird but part of a club that has existed for a very long time) and that can be comforting.

Anne Shirley: Wearing a corset is kind of uncomfortable I guess You: Anne, you're being really problematic right now :/

"Not like other girls" is the lived reality of some of us. Any trope can be overdone or done badly. But when you're a female constantly treated as an outsider in female circles it does resonate. (Equating makeup and dresses with being uniquely female is a form of sexism, but it's ok to pushback against the idea that's it ok to dismiss someone as shallow because they dress well.) Properly done corsets are simply supportive undergarments, but there was a point where the trends started getting unhealthy, literally warping organs and bones. Agreed "girly" bad, "masculine" good is problematic. But challenging what is considered feminine or masculine is often part of the effort. The right to wear pants is one I exercise almost daily. The message shouldn't be "pants good, skirt bad" but more challenging the idea of what is masculine or feminine. I think today it would be more it's not fair to expect women to always wear makeup to the office when men don't have the same expectation. It's an extra hassle and expense. While it goes too far to shame those who do enjoy their makeup, it's right to challenge it as a requirement or essentially feminine. ... The anti-corset thing is a bit like the whole anti-bra thing. It's a support garment. If you're small busted, you have different needs than someone with a large bust. Wearing what's right for your body should not meaning trying to force that on every other woman.

Love this! We don't have to trade our femininity to be treated fairly. One wonderful woman you missed ANNIE OAKLEY!!! She became the best sharpshooter in the world all the while wearing a dress! Blessings

There is another view. I totally adopted "not like other girls" to reject the bullying I experienced in high school. If they didn't want me I sure as hell was going to be different. I was proud to be different. I went with my non standard look of broad cheek bones and slanted eyes and went exotic (I am not asian, I am dutch but I had enough of these features to get racially targeted) I was also interested in science and was an honour student, which was even less acceptable in a girl in the 60s. So yes to me " I am not like other girls" was taking back my power.

31:33 I kind of interpreted the writers take on corsets as an attempt on corset neutrality; Miss Stacy didn’t feel comfortable in corsets because it was her thing. And I actually forgot what Anne said when she put on the corset because she was excited to wear it in the first season. Also, the only reason I wanted a season 4 was for the Bash and Kakwet storylines.

You viewpoints seem firmly grounded in your own comfort with wearing socially prescribed feminine fashions. I have NEVER been comfortable in feminine clothing, even as a child, despite my mother’s Herculean efforts. I am old enough to have not been allowed to wear pants to school until I was in high school, and I was absolutely miserable. I did not feel comfortable in my own skin until I was finally allowed to wear pants. I guarantee you that this was not because I was a feminist or progressive, as I didn’t even know what those things meant. It was because I was uncomfortable and couldn’t do the things I wanted to do, like tumble and play freely. Skirts also made me feel unsafe. This was probably because of the lecherous male teachers who insisted on measuring our skirts to make sure they were long enough, which apparently necessitated “accidently” touching our buttocks and other private parts. To this day, I prefer more androgynous fashions, but not because I think they are “superior” to more traditionally feminine clothing. Perhaps many of us really “weren’t like other girls” after all.

The chariot corsets absolutely cracked me up 😂

Beginning this video, I am immediately reminded of Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderland, which begins as I understand it with Alice attending a big fancy tea party full of rich people in what I can best describe as her underwear and bed head…. Definitely not what they were TRYING to go for but like… making it a point to say she’s not wearing a corset, wearing her hair down, her dress being so short compared with other characters in the same scene… what am I supposed to think? And also, how in heaven’s name did her mother let her out of the house like that if we’re trying to make a point about how oppressive this setting is? It’s just so confusing to me but very clear they were making her a textbook nlog

They did work. We are able to wear jeans, leggings and other things that would not be possible without these women fighting the definition of what it means to be a woman.

She was on point until the Bloomers part of the rant--- respectability politics is not a reason to conform. And this is a prime example that we CANNOT buy acceptance through conformity. Hierarchy will continue to stratify between the "freaks" who look respectable and the "freaks" who don't-- it cleverly mutes the group's call for change and instead feeds into infighting between those who appear socially conservative and those who "ruin the image". Then the whole goal of the movement is lost and everyone instead is policing the image of the movement, nullifying the whole thing.

The whole "you have to fit in enough to make change" thing is a really bad argument to make. It's a moving goalpost. Your main point that the "not like other girls" trope is bad is a good point. But "you need to fit in more or we wont give you rights" is a HUGE issue both currently and historically and the real defining factor is how much people in power feel pressured or are willing to budge on. Not how much those not in power are willing to fit in. While dress definitely didn't work against the suffragette movement and while having more things to deflect against their main message likely would have worked against the movement framing it in this way is harmful in a modern context. We do not currently live in a society that is super accepting. It's also still highly based on class, race, and how attractive someone is considered. See for example baggy unfitting clothing being considered stylish on a thin person but slovenly on a fat person and that judgement being used to discredit people. I want to make it very clear that I did like this video. I think you did a good job over all and I enjoy your channel. Just this is something that's a big issue that comes up a lot and I honestly think you'd want to know.

A word in defense of Jo's clothing in the 2019 Little Women, it wasn't just for the "I'm not like other girls" statement (yeah, that's annoying, we can agree on that). Jo and Laurie share a wardrobe, and you see them wearing the same clothing at different points in the movie, which was a way to underscore that the two characters are basically the same person. Jo loves Laurie because he's the other part of her self, and the clothes make that statement. (Greta or Jacqueline talk about this in some of the interviews.)

This is SUCH a bad take. Can GNC women just EXIST without this bullshit? Maybe contemporary women had reasons for rejecting their fashion of the time, did you consider that? We have regressed so far; this is so depressing.

Forgot to mention why this stereotype came about. Precisely, women who don't fit in "like other girls" are marginalized, in addition to being completely excluded. I also don't agree with this "I'm not like other girls" thing, but one should not forget how it came about and why.

As someone who constantly complains about wearing a bra, I feel like complaining about a corset is probably accurate. I do think it’s overdone but if they are readjust them and giving each other a knowing look it’s a good node to the struggles of having breasts

I just wanted to add to this conversation that while things like "dressing impeccibly" in order to gain respect and get one's political goals accomplished is a common route for activism, it also plays heavily into respectability politics, which is it's own negative can of worms. While I understand the point you're making, I don't know if I would necessarily hoist it up as a universal good, or as the only activist strategy that works.

Just wanted to point out-Kiawentiio Tarbell, who portrayed Ka’Kwet in Anne With An E is set to play Katara in Netflix’s Avatar The Last Airbender live-action. Katara is a character who loves her choker necklace, dainty colors and has manners, but also enjoys putting male characters in their place and is invaluable to her friend group. In other words, the perfect blend, and I can’t wait to see how Kiawentiio chooses to play this character.

jesus christ. we've really hit discourse capacity here with the NLOG thing when it's gotten simplified down to basically "portraying even the most mildly unfeminine/GNC women as protags is actually misogynistic"... as a masculine woman, no, our existence is not inherently problematic, no, we don't hate other women just because we don't want to be feminine, and please for the love of god let us have even a smidge of representation in histfic without complaining that every single woman isnt a "hyperfeminine but also girlboss" type character... some of us genuinely like not being feminine, not because we hate other women but because that's just who we are. femininity doesn't fit all women. and criticizing femininity and gender roles also isn't inherently misogynistic, either.

The permit thing you talk about actually happened in Germany as well. It was implemented during the Weimar republic but it may have started earlier during the German Empire period. I was studying queer persecution in Germany pre, during, and after WWII I came across a paper discussing the permits and looking at how they are one way to study trans history.

All these labels for women are created with misogyny undertones or overtones much of the time. Be whoever you want as long as you’re doing it for you and not for male validation. And you’re not harming any one else. Even if you are doing something for male validation that’s not your fault as women are socialised to please men and do anything and everything for men in mind

Anne does not fit into the “not like other girls” trope because she is friends with a lot a of girls and firmly believes in sorority, she also never looks down on women and/or girls who fit into all the feminine stereotypes. Women are allowed to not like traditionally feminine things, Anne not liking corsets and not caring for fashion does not make her any less of a woman or any more “special” than other women. You seem to believe all women need to like being what is considered feminine and must like the fashion society expects us to wear to be women, and reducing being a woman to that is incredibly misogynistic.