We Should Not Be Reluctant to Assert the Superiority of Western Values 

K Russell Very true indeed. It is also tiresome how he keeps repeating himself in any debate given how 'some muslims back in time' inspired others regarding either their values or views on things. It's not as if we completly disregard the good that muslims (not the islam, of course) has done for us in the past. Whether it be to translate the greeks to inspire thinkers in Europe.

jodawgsup Absolutely. This historical cherry picking only serves to highlight how backward Islam is today. I've heard him hold prayers calling for the destruction of those countries to be swallowed up by the ISIS caliphate - he's a very nasty piece of work.

K Russell Lolol. Quite right. As much as Prof. Ramadan bothers me, I do rather like his sort of goofy Swiss-French accent. And have you noticed how he says, "We need to come with (cahm wiss) a dialoooogue that is [blah blah blah]". The "come with" phrase is what always-for whatever reason-cracks me up.

Bart Something Bang on mate - Also the 'whattaboutery' - the appeal to historical Christian atrocities - because they always assume you're a Christian, and the finger-pointing to colonialism - like every shitty ideology should get it's turn at tyranny. Ramadan does this thing where he suggests we need to come into the conversation with humility, as if arrogance is our default position. A real slimeball.

Bart Smit I don't know, but they kicked him out of his post at Erasmus university in the Netherlands over his connections to Iranians state-funded television channel - whilst he was on holiday. So, top 'lolz' there.

Is that to say free speech is the foundational value of the west?

Not "the" but one of the main ones yes. example, write something nasty about the government in chinese press (well you can't...on the web for example), as a chinese, and see what happens..In the west that´s just another day in the office. Hasn't been like that for that long here, but its a fundamental value of the modern west

So it's impossible to have this talk in any country that doesn't allow free speech, even if this topic wasn't considered taboo?

tobo86 I guess you have to show me a culturally self critical debate in a public forum in a country without free speech. Doesn't count if at least 1 participant has been fired, jailed or killed afterwards..

Fair. I don't know of any off-hand, but that would be the litmus test.

Haha Virgins and booz

That made me laugh too! Thank you for reminding me of it as I intend to us it in the future. 😉

Heaven...as imagined by illiterate 7th Century nomads and shepherds...

I have to wonder if you used "had" the past tense version of has intentionally

@@sammiller2637 It already is half way out of control

Communism and Nazism are also originated from the west. It's gross to condescend people like the pitch of a snake oil salesman. Yak! Money talks. FYI, IQ2 square pants, Jesus Christ is from Middle East, not the West.

Nobody attacked the west, the oh-cult occident, neither the hindus, nor the incas, nor the africans, nor the 'barbaric' berbers of the barbary coast, nor any of the peoples of cross-culture. It is the evil empire, as exemplified by the holy roman empire, destroying and distorting all before it, that which morphed into the evil 'masters' of today. It rules with force, lies and mental witchcraft. Civil-lies-ation is a lie.

@@there-sis-stanceiscoming8230 It's hilarious ho nobody ever questions the assumptions thrown around. Western culture has done some terrible things. These people are judging themselves based on the value system they created.

Agreed.

Ibn Warraq is Pakistani who lives in west. This is not his real name. He change it bcoz he did not wanted to be another Salman Rushdie.

Quite agree I was taken back, not what I was expecting.

Charles Glass a obscurist mealy-sarcastic uninformed toady to the fanatics of Islam!

Bob Peckham

RESCENTLY IMPRISONED FOR MULTIPLE RAPE CHARGES

As opposed to the first speaker who seemed to disingenuously select the best of the 'west' and contrast that with the worst of Islam, as if Islam is the 'rest'. A poor argument that no doubt fooled those looking for just such confirmation bias.

@@nickthepostpunk5766 post a rebuttal then , Thrill me with your acumen

Still great dialogue & debate. It was clearly stated that we need to call out the double standard.

John Blaker stop being so awfully boring ... it’s called debate and it still happens today

@@mikew1591 awww so cute, you're triggered

John Blaker I’m not triggered you intellectually deficient robot .. I think for myself you moron ... as for trigger I can suggest where to aim before you pull one ... at your empty head

Really? Which rock have you been living under?

It's brilliant. I cannot believe I haven't heard of the man until now.

Said with so much sass

@Jane Elliot, Jr. You mean that quote or what?

That's a lift from Hitchens

+RockStudioLive Agreed

he says fuck all of any stubstance

Too bad he talked less than anyone else.

UniworldCityGGaon and it's the West that takes good ideas and inculcates them into our larger ideology. Recognizing that India isn't just one culture, how true is that as a consistent feature of Indian society throughout history? It also took the West a few hundred to maybe a thousand years to figure this out. There's generations of history that make these values axiomatic here in a way that there isn't in many other cultures.

UniworldCityGGaon I've actually heard that lecture from Dr. Tharoor, and I've been to India a couple of times. I love many things about the varieties of Indian cultures, but a large portion of the people I talk to want to further Westernize their country and culture, for one. Also, none of this is to say that Europe has always been better or embraced better ideas, just that the past approximately 400 years Westernism, wherever it is implemented - whether in congruence with or over and against the local culture - is a great set of ideas, better than any others humanity has yet to devise.

Nice one, hope you're prospering, did you make it to the west.

Colonialism aka British empire stinks .Most UK population in Victorian times were very poor.

Amen. That speech was mind blowing!

At 0645 in Wisconsin, before heading off to church, my youngest son and husband listened at my request. No time to share their thoughts, but they listened with rapt attention and without interrupting side conversation, that spoke volumes.

what for losing the argument??

It's hardly worth answering you, but, for the second time, HE WON THE MOTION YOU MORON!

Beth Tarig Ramadan is practicing taqqiya. Quran/Allah say Islam; by hook or by crook must dominate the world' caliphate. Until then they had to continue with their jihad.

***** Niccee. :)

Beth Well he did lose that debate against Julian Assange but that was completely biased to begin with lol.

Confused Quester against Julian Assange? Or about Julian Assange? And I've seen this other one about immigration where his team lost in numbers but won in the amount of people they converted to their side of the argument from the start. That debate was very biased, soething like 80% of the crowd at the start of the debate disagreed, but they converted so many that it was almost even by the end.

Beth Great example. Actually that should be considered winning sort of don't you think? Because it depends on who changes most minds. Actually now that i come to think about the Assange one,he did in fact make a few people supporting the proposition and a few "undecided" convert to the opposition, but they didn't consider that valid grounds for winning. The majority even though reduced by a fraction still were "for". That probably isn't the best way to judge a debate lol

I used to love the idea of living of Sweden until it went NATO

Maybe you don’t know anything about the rest of the world beyond what you hear in the news.. If all you knew about e.g. the US was their carceral population, their working poor, their drugs addiction, their many wars, their inequalities etc. You’d realize they are no better than China..

Some are blind followers when it comes to religion be it any religion follower.

It's an ideological commitment backed by forces who want to use democracy against itself and spread the Islamist ideology. It also help him get legal and diplomatic cover when he gets caught raping women.

Just like how your WHITE forefathers went around preaching bible? Now it is Western values... How come white values are always superior?

+AminTheMystic There is no such thing as "white values". The values that are superior are secular liberal, culturally libertarian values such as freedom of speech (especially where religious satire/criticism is concerned), free inquiry, freedom of belief, property rights, equal treatment or women (not killing/punishing women for being raped or honor raping women, for example) etc. These values don't have to be that great in order to be superior to the values espoused in countries where conservative Islam is the norm because their theocratic authoritarian values are just that bad. The values related to conservative Islam have no place in modern society.

+AminTheMystic Why are you here if we are not superior? Stay in your superior muslim country if you think you are superior!

Kevin Afton And who is in your inferior country? Don't talk utter shite... you dirty little pig.

AminTheMystic Then why arent you in India if your country is superior?

All I heard was something about curry.

He's merely a butthurt snowflake.

With some audiences it works though. Some audiences have a tendency to give the benefit of the doubt to someone with a foreign accent speaking broken English, just because he's got a foreign accent. Likening to when a newborn says his first words, and people are at awe and impressed. It's as simple as that.

Shoop, that’s totally true and the baby analogy is spot on. Transcribing his speech is the way to see through the accent trap

most likely because you are a racist twat !!

@Osiris Malu The first guy speaking is Ibn Warraq.

Exactly, but Don’t forget you also have protect other peoples ability to do so!

The Islamic countries are worse than the communist countries as far as blatant abuse of civil rights and freedom of speech and thought! When these Muslims like speaker Ramadon talk about the goodness of Islamic countries why does he live in a European country and not a Muslim country. The values of western thought & culture cannot be summed up better than Ebn Warraq, and if we don’t assert them the world will surely go into darkness!

Cory Y. you can if youre a dumbass post modernist

Exactly!! The last Anti- Western Soy boy even had the fucking nerve to try to pin Communism/Marxism on the West! As if Communism/ Marxism isn’t actually the Talmud and Judaism

@@lunaflamed The "Judaism" part i get, but the "Talmud" part i don't; for i'm not totally familiar with that book, but know it to be religious-philosophical in focus, and not the economies of man.

Nobody's actually doing that, so what's your point? In order to "bash Western values" (lol or non-lol) one has to accept that there really exists an entity that the term "Western values" actually describes. No one who disputes the existence of something can take a position about whether that thing is good or bad, desirable or not, because one can only take such a position toward something that exists.

@@ntodd4110 Your "point(s)" is(are) lost on us and require clarification/elaboration on your part. (& remember, "Context is KING" goes both ways; for you & your opponent)

Proves that today the West is far ahead of the rest.

Same same down here In South Africa mate

Check his hourlong interview with Gad Saad on "The Saad Truth." Warraq has been a hero of Mine for years.

Yes brilliant bla bla....

It was one sided, ahistorical drivel.

At the beginning, the moderator says 'Ibn, the floor is yours' without realising Ibn means son. So really what he said is, 'Son, the floor is yours' 😂

He is

Agreed

I recommend reading his book, Why I am not a Muslim.

OMG..... William Dalrymple is embarrassing.... How did he even get on the panel?

+Birch Williams haha, If I were a gay man I'd be on a plane to england as we speak.

buzzardbeatniks I'm tempted, believe me. ;)

+Birch Williams Douglas Murray claims to want everyone to enjoy the same rights that we do in his speech, yet he has a vehemently anti-immigration stance. He claims not to support violent enforcement of "our" superior values, which I accept are superior, yet he supports wars that try to achieve just that. He's an ideologue and a pseudo-intellectual.

geniusofmozart Yeah yeah... whatever. I'm all out of niceties today. So.... *Go fuck yourself*....

Teutone amén

Thats what I said to my wife... "this guy has already won the motion"!!

Yes Sir. Done n dusted we might say. But logic isn’t applicable, always.

Yeah that guy was fricken brilliant!

+Gila Atwood doesn't he even hear himself? He can't go to Saudi Arabia because he's too progressive for them! And they are ALLIES of the west!

+Gila Atwood The cognitive dissonance that plagues Islamic migrants. They flee to Western countries from Islamic countries to assert the superiority or at least the neutral nature (religion of peace) of Islam to us. Quite fascinating indeed.

Taqiyya

Precisely, it's the very reason why millions sacrifice everything to live in the West to escape oppression, unfairness and poverty, and the reason billions dream of seeing their countries and societies operating under the same principles of liberty, safety, fairness, opportunity and tolerance that operate in the West.

And the very fact Tariq refuses to live in the 'paradise' of arabia proves the motion as well. How conveinent is it that he sits in the west to trash it while saying he's working on modernizing the muslim world's thinking. So why doesn't he go THERE and do that? Why does he work on the muslim world from his far away island? Oh I forgot, because he wouldn't have the freedom to do so and would soon be locked up or executed. And this he knows. Which is what makes him so dishonest.

+Sean L. He's rather polished at doing it though, isn't he? I think he baffles a lot of people with his style of argument but as you have pointed out, despite being a bastion of knowledge in his field, Tariq very seldom says anything of actual substance to the debate or the fears of wider society.

BubaGump Shrimps The b.s. seems obvious to me. He is too polished. And it comes across as sophistry. Besides, I have enough experience with Islamists to know how the ones who sell themselves as moderates come across. I'm not buying it with him. I can tell when someone is putting forth an honest argument. I think someone like Maajid Nawaz is honest, for instance, even if I question the effectiveness of his ideas of reform.

Tariq never does.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought he was just rambling.

postmodernism. It's hard to actually affirm anything as true when you don't think anything actually is true at all.

Ha, thought the same!

David Barlow spot on mate

He lives in India and is an Indian citizen now, so yeah. :-)

Yes but he overuses the Ladies and gentlemen. It's annoying

@@antikokalis thats just good manners :-) but I am only 10:00 in

u have to be a racist to talk about ur superiority

@@raaid85 no If that is the case then Islam is racist

@@RichardEnglander oh wow lol. yeah only the gulf countries who only exist cuz of US and UK

Yes. The superior western values talked about are universal, it's just that the west succeeded in making those values mainstream, and for that, I still give big thanks to the west.

@@wafercrackerjack880what are the values

They don’t defend anything but the interests of their owners. Talk about democracy in Latin America where the US took down democratically elected governments to replace them by dictatorships. Talk about freedom in Irak where 100.000s of people have been killed..

@@Memoiana You’re letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, while at the same time cutting brutal regimes like those in Iran a patently ridiculous amount of slack. Yes, western countries screw up, but their people know a level of freedom unheard of in many parts of the world. Try criticizing the CCP from a cafe in Beijing. Try reporting the real news in Russia. Try wearing the emblems of Judaism or Hinduism on the streets of Dubai.

Islam invaded Europe a couple of hundreds years earlier than the crusades. They got all the way to modern day France look up the battle of Tours. If Charles Martel, a Frankish nobleman, modern day Belgium, had t won that battle we could well be Muslim now.

​@@jackkruese9929 Yes, that is the high school textbook version of those events. Why are you telling me to look it up?

Titus Veridius If it’s the high school version and you don’t need to look stuff up then you should also understand the point I made

@@jackkruese9929 Your point is that Muslims did it to Europe first. I just don't understand why you are telling me this.

Titus Veridius Because it’s not a one way street Titus my friend, as your post was implying.

The opposite in fact, because it demonstrates another example of Western superiority complex and arrogance, interestingly uttered by a colonial stooge.

Kay Em Are you implying that Warraq doesn't believe what he said? Are you implying that he isn't smart enough to examine evidence and come to his own conclusion? If I, with the knowledge I have now, lived in Britain before Rome invaded, I would be welcoming the Roman Empire with open arms because Roman society and culture, for all its faults, was better than British society and culture at that time.

Exactly! The debate could have ended with that opening of Ibn!

Brilliant yes. Ended? No. That would not be fair....to any & all.

@@kayem3824 What specifically d'you value about murdering adulterers and cartoonists? Or having the legal support to treat women as second class citizens or slaves?

That’s decadence. That isn’t the highest of Western values

@@briandelaney9710 That's your opinion. I, like millions, of others here in the West see it as liberty.

@@L1b3rta It is decadence : (for the general , commoner population) decadence is one of the many facets of freedom... I , for one , have my own fetishes and what not, and I enjoy the freedom to not be judged / killed for them...

@@briandelaney9710 Decadence is a sign of freedom. Which can only be achieved in a liberal Democratic society.

@Yousef Ghaneemah No one follows the Bible. Most Christians like only Jesus because he was peaceful. But your people love the warlord and child fucker prophet

CavemanSynthesizer Well from the 19th century on maybe :)

That's the best thing about the West. Ordinary people can make a difference.

Great example. Thanks for sharing it.

there is no burning of bodies allowed in islam mate , you are talking utter rubbish .... and when has pakistan ever represented muslims ????

@@paulleannefischer1148 hes lying , there is no burning of bodies in islam !!!

@@garyoates4142 You have 1000 books. Have you read them all? Devil knows what's in all of them

@@antikokalis well theres nothing on burning bodies mate ..... its christians that were doing all that !! maybe you should try and read one of the thousand books for yourself !!

+Here0s0Johnny Exactly, and it would appear to me that this pattern is worryingly common among Muslims who try to disingenuously play the "discrimination" card.

YES!

The same is true for Islamic value if you accept them you are in if not you are out regardless of race or religion etc

Par for the course,every time he 'speaks' it leaves you less than underwhelmed,Christopher Hitchens described him as 'white noise'.an apt description,he(Ramadan)tries to defend the indefensible and he's useless at that,the less said about Glass and Dalrymple and their juvenile ramblings,the better.

What do you expect from an inferior set of values. In fact values aren't created in a vacuum. It takes a certain IQ to come up with better values. Something Tariq and his ilk lack.

@@kogikashakunin4683 I wonder if he thinks closed Muslim countries Should accept refugees and allow westerners to live their values freely in Muslim countries.... seriously he bores me with his rants trying to romanticize Muslim values, it’s quite dizzying, like trying to count someone do kart wheels

@@pinchebruha405 I know right. Europe needs a purge and a return to purity. Otherwise our IQ will continue to fall.

Kogi Kashakunin jeez watch yo self

Agreed, I come back to it every year or so. A masterpiece.

Yeah totally everything a white man says in a suit is amazing! Bravo!!!!

@@hydraelectricblue White?

@@hydraelectricblue Ibn Warraq? In a jumper? White? What are you watching?!

AMAZING ....for sure👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Because there is war...... because it doesnt have the best livning Standards ........ but still there are many people, who would like to come back to their home countries, where other values, which are better for them, are, but they cannot, as there is war for example....... Western culture may be very good for having different people, with different cultures, but still refugees would rather prefer their values, than the western ones........

That is a beautiful sentence!😂😂👍👍

@Sunshine lollipops You have hit the nail on the head. In terms of coherence, Tariq is on the other extreme from Douglas Murray's eloquence.

Tariq probably got his credentials through affirmative action.

@@lunaflamed His chair in Oxford was created for him, paid for by some Arab sheikh who gave a fat donation

Allah sounds like a fun bloke.

Allah is part of a bad children's story that you think is real...how sad.

good quotes

To contrast Ayatollah Khomeini's "Allah did not create man so that he =could have fun", Alan Watts, who is effectively a buddhist and uses the concept of god metaphorically, said "man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun". Quite different points of view!

Tariq brings up some interesting points to explore...that support the other side when you examine them closely. This was a dissatisfying debate.

I agree I had to fact check him 3 times

Africans started the slave trade

thats cause the west is based on judeo-christian commandments in our constitutions,not pagan or sharia

Well. NO. It really isn't. That is simply another fantasy and example of propaganda. It may have come largely from countries following judeo-christian values, but that does NOT mean they are based on them. In fact what exactly ARE judeo-christian values? The two had entirely different values. I realize you probably imagine you understand all this, as it is simply stated as if it is fact, and taken foregranted. But what does this mean? What are the values you are claiming to be judeo-christian values? And WHY? Placing the educated thought through text of the American constitution up against the bible, one appears written by educated thinking, intelligent, men with integrity. The other is a very dated, old book of nonsense fantasy and absolute bullshit, that needs to be read and sieved carefully go garner anything reasonable. That people can possibly imagine the latter has some kind of extra knowledge, is laughably, clearly silly on it's face. Please, PLEASE don't simply do what the majority of people tend to do. Don't simply attempt to repeat a few of the ten commandments you deem reasonable. That really doesn't wash. Our values are entirely secular. The ONLY reason the christian church, or rather portions of the church were dragged kicking and screaming into modernity. To imagine it was the other way around is laughably ill educated and verging on the delusional. To be fair, I personally put it down to people not thinking about it, who simply accept what they have been informed. Possibly why the answers when asked to back up the assertion tend to be so poorly thought through, reasoned and argued. When an answer attempting to back up the assertion is forthcoming at all.

martin they grew out of those values to present but the mistake hear they separate the people from the values but not really a surprise with all this pc bs we have to put up with

@@martingrundy5475 -are u atheist,islamist,satanist,curiosity only

@@makedonistoi Not sure where you are coming from or what exactly you are trying to say in your comments. Are you a Muslim, a Hindi, a Christian or other faith? Are you pro-Western culture/norms or pro-Eastern, Islamist culture/norms? Please be clear in your speech/writings.

Tariq does not debate. Debate requires that you first of all show an understanding of what your opponent is saying - and then responding to that.

He is now in jail for crimes against women , a karma he deserves

Arabs....

@bill Bloggs I dont know you may wana check online

Yes, quite amazing!

​@Edmund Stop psychologically projecting your idiocy onto others.

@@mikew1591 And your repulsive Orwellian automaton cult... is winning? Haha.

Murray is just a smug little Brit.

I wonder how we measure "greatness" , i suppose Douglas is the standard.

He was a very good speaker indeed. Never heard of him before but I agree, he understood the subject and bought many examples to show why he thought the western system was superior to others.

@@grahamt5924 the western system is fraught with hypocrisy and corruption. no Morales what so ever. they are based on the whims of the elite. what a way to live.

@@aeshaosman2567 compared to what. Which system is better?

@@grahamt5924 a true islamic system. not the fake one that the Saudi regime and other so called islamic nations perpetuate.

@@aeshaosman2567 so give an example of a good system.

and the very most important one indeed I believe it is also being threatened by cancel culture which assumes guilty before proven innocent or more guilty

Freedom of speech is generally an illusion. Cancel culture has always existed.

hahahahahaha

@@Cecilia-ky3uw I feel like I don't even hear about these people until they've been "cancelled".

Well said!

I agree totally. Western values are the best.

if western values are so good at making you happy why do western countries have the highest divorce/suicide/ antidepressant usage/ singles who dont have sex rates by far?

@@SimpleReally High divorce rates are the result of the full emancipation of women. It happens in every society where women have full autonomy. As for antidepressants, we have very easy access to them. They're used for other things besides depression as well. (I take an antidepressant as a preventative for chronic migraines, for instance.) As for suicide, I can only assume it's because we don't stigmatize suicide as much as some religious cultures. Don't really know.

Would you say the west is a liberal conservative system?

@@uniformityofnature1488 No, that doesn't exist. The term 'liberal democracy' doesn't have any partisan connotation.

I totally agree. The West achieved through trial and error, and the ability of reflection and nuance.

Abu graib

"Values from the enlightenment"... There's still a redpill you need to take, man

As an American myself, I'm embarrassed to see that one of our own stood up there and made a fool of himself. He took the least amount of time to say the things with the least substance, and on the wrong side of the stage, no less.

I quite enjoyed that he ignored the low priority rules and spoke up like a decent human being. A little humility never hurt the most powerful nation in history.

The very fact that him, like most westerners, look see those events as atrocities to be despised is a display of the superiority of western values. Islamists brag and take pride on the atrocities they commit.

Santosh Anand I'm with ya, champ. But never ban books, that's bad joojoo for all societies. Instead, make an example of the Quran, show it and the Christian Bible for what they are: the worst instincts of humankind.encapsulated into books. If we ban bad things, we forget their impact, and we doom ourselves to make mistakes again. Religious people ban books, smart people don't act like religious people.

he is annoying...

according to Wikipedia he has been charged by French Police with raping two women.

he is a known sexual predator, he is done, finish

Mark Danielle I'm not a devout Christian, but to condemn the Christian Bible as encapsulating the darkest aspects of humanity is nonsense! Whether Jesus actually existed or not is immaterial. The basic tenets of Christianity are found in the Sermon on the Mount of Olives and any who claims to be a Christian must not only live by, but be seen to live by those teachings! The Old Testament, apart from the travels and battles of the Children of Israel, does not presume to be a guide for all humanity for all time, apart from the Ten Commandments with their injunctions against murder, theft and lying about other people! Adultery is frowned upon, as are envy and coverteousness, which can all lead to trouble, but to condemn the Christian Bible as encapsulating the darkest aspects of humanity is silly!

How about neither? Both are degenerate as all Hell.

stoned in English means drunk, by the way

@@marcoalessandro2034 stoned in English refers to the effects of the usage of narcotics, typically cannabis

@@bengoodlad3970 ya , and pissed means angry...

@@marcoalessandro2034 to an American maybe. Pissed in England is usually synonymous with being drunk

Yes because you sell weapons that are used to kill children. You create industrial systems that are destroying the worlds ecology. You fight wars that kill millions for oil and other energy. So yes you have values for your own people which is nice but you also don’t have any values when it comes to the lives of people in other poor countries. Ultimately it’s hypocritical to say you are amazing and great whilst doing things that are not great.

@@jamesleon4883 Well said

@@jamesleon4883 People from ALL cultures do horrible things for personal interest, money, etc. Your argument is totally out of context to this debate. Some people sell weapons BECAUSE there are others, who will buy them and use them. Same is with prostitution... That has not much to do with what a culture offers to everyday people in everyday life. Speaking your mind freely, have a chance to be the best of yourself through education free to EVERYONE, not just boys, to be the owner of your body, being able to defend yourself against accusations, etc. are the values, that can create a healthier society IN GENERAL. Nobody said, there will be no wars, povery, or prostitution. Societies do not exist in an unidimensional world. But values can help to find the line where we can decide what wrong and what right is, with the least amount of FEAR.

@@richardkovacs2006 Perfect comment.

@@jamesleon4883 oh yeah because non western countries never go to war with each other. We might sell the weapons but it's you who's using them.

Taqiyya

eltubster14 don't forget, interrupt and talk over someone else when it's their turn to respond.

Tbf, he actually managed to make his points, though none of them valid. The first argument was entirely hinged on the history of philosophy, i.e. who first invented "universal values". Then he tried to downplay the fact that certain inhumane practices applied population-wide as racial-based overgeneralisation of "one story". I would say if according to him this universal value is truly shared, then the reality only shows that the West has progressed much further towards the ideal.

@doilyfilm Lol! That phonetic writing is so accurate.

He seems like a dumb fuck to me!

Indeed. Can we add a splash of deceit also...

Indians are not western.

@Ved Joshi i am british and we ve allways got on with hindu s and buddists what we do not get on with is ISLAM ! and neither do MOSTof the world! we know we have a different culture to you VED but both culture s are fairly compatible and enjoy each other s company and respect one another!

@Ved Joshi what do the americans think of islamic culture ? (because the british really do not like it much ! )

@Ved Joshi i personally think that all the countries that you mentioned probably learnt from each other various things - the majority of which were good . unfortunately , it seems that islam does not want to learn , it just wants to control! they seem not to tolerate other people s point of view or customs , even when living in their countries.