Welding Automotive Patch Panels with a Harbor Freight 125 Flux Core Welder 

That made my day - I love to hear stories like that. You're very welcome - always feel free to ask any question - doesn't matter what video - I'll get you an answer. Thanks for the comment and support :)

@@LakesideAutobody I’m watching videos right now on quarter panel rust repair To me your videos are how I would do it and extremely easy to understand I mean your to the point there’s not 10 other things your trying to show I feel like I’m rite there and your showing me again thank you it was such a huge help I mean it 😊 I’m over in Massachusetts near cape cod just so you know where your students are coming from 😊

So what guage metal was it?

@@1windozesuk 18 gauge

@@LakesideAutobody was that 0.6mm or 0.8 wire.i think thaf flux is more difficult to weld thin metal than regular gas welder.it must be clear surface.i bought it to weld automotive.thank so so much

Thank you

A dab with a damp cotton rag does the same. Even better a squirt of water based rust converter.

Where is. 025 flux core wire available to buy?

Thanks - that's good to hear. Have a great end of the week :)

I hope it does - practice just getting a spot on a plain clean piece of auto sheet metal - then go from there. Let me know how it goes :)

Sometimes you are forced to butt weld but most of the work in a body shop is lapped. A new car has over 4000 weld and not one is a butt weld - remember that when you hear all the hoopla about butt welding :)

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JIIonJOVro4.html

Plus you can use it outside. Hard to use MIG (gas) outside as the wind blows the gas shield away from the weld :)

what did he explain? all i heard him say was put wire speed on 5 and the powere to minimum. did i miss something big?

You're welcome. There's no doubt in my mind if you work at it, you'll be successful. Do one panel at a time if needed but keep working on that panel till it's right. Looking at the whole vehicle can be discouraging if it's real bad. Ask ?s and practice and you will find success. God bless you too - have a great week :)

Thanks Papa - you can use the sure forms for both types of filler. It will make you job a lot easier when sanding that fiberglass filler. That stuff gets hard as a brick.

Correct: seal welded area with fiberglass premix, eg: Bondo-Glass. Bondo has talc fillers which can/will hold water

Thanks a lot for that input - I've heard or other folks using brand name wire in this machine. Good idea with that ground clamp. You're right - practice does help - have a good weekend :)

Thanks and thanks for watching :)

Yep - $99 bucks :)

To me really - they all spray nicely if they are clean and you have mixed the paint/primer right. I have my favorite siphon feed ones and my favorite gravity ones. For siphon I like the Binks 7 or Campbell Hausfeld's copy of it. For gravity believe it or not, I like the purple gun from Harbor Freight or the Cambell H's DH580000AV both are cheap, work fine and always available.

You're welcome - glad you like the videos - have a good weekend :)

Great idea. I would love to make video of that. My dad was a body man and he used to have stories of some guy that would come in with a 5 gallon bucket of tools and do everything he needed to do out of that bucket. I'll put together a video on that - thanks for your input - Jerry

Not usually but I absolutely make sure the panel can drain. For example: lean a piece of bare sheet metal up against a chain link fence and it'll be there for a darn long time before it rusts away because it can drain and dry. Watch this video for some good info on that: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html

I see this is 9 months ago but......I just had cab corners done professionally and they use something called cavity wax. The shop highly recommends it whenever you can.

@@lukeofearth1036 thanks!

Thanks so much - glad they are helpful. Feel free to ask ?s. I answer 1-2 times/day. The wire came with the welder and is .030". I did have to play with the settings and the distance (work/gun) and angle. Keep at it - you'll find out what works for you. Thanks for the sub :)

All body men/women touch the work. That oil on the fingers stuff is TV/magazine stuff. When you work in a body shop your hands are always dry as a bone. You're always conscious to things that could cause fish eyes too so you tend to keep very clean :)

Feel free to ask any ?s as you go :

You're welcome - low heat and short bursts will prevent blowing through. Let me know how those quarters turn out :)

My boss used to make us put the welds right next to each other and that obviously worked great. As time went on I cheated a bit and started leaving spaces and found it made no difference because the panel will begin to rust again at the bottom where the salt water and debris settle anyway - not the side. lastly the knock the welds down does 2 things 1) hides the seam 2) all seams whether butt welded or lap welded are not completely water proof - we are not robot welders so even a small pit will leak. The rigid layer of filler in the knocked down area does a great job at battling any moisture trying to penetrate the repair especially if you use a layer of fiber glass reinforced filler on your first coat. Hope that helps :)

Thanks for the reply. I’m trying to get the courage to fix the rusty wheel fenders on my truck. Panting is what’s holding me back. Every time I spray doors with my cheap HVLP gun, it leaves a gritty texture on the door...granted it’s thinned latex paint but the doors look great.

@@JiuJitsuDad Do let fear get the best of you...figure out whats causing the problem and go from there. Ask questions too :)

Glad to hear it helped you out - thanks for your support my friend :)

Yes - that's fine.

To me it's best to spread it over bare metal as that is how it was done in every shop I worked at. Use a low speed on your sander/grinder and use sharp 36-40 grit fiber resin discs. Filler sticks great to clean, freshly ground metal. In the end it's up to you though and what you think is going to work best for your application. I've never had filler crack, fall out etc. putting it over bare metal though. Thanks for the support BTW.

@@LakesideAutobody agreed . Fillet has got a bad name from people putting it over rust unsanded paint over dirt grease oil and then leaving the rest of the metal to rust . Also all repairs need oil on the back of the repairs soon as paint is cured

My dad used lead and converted to plastic filler late 60's through the 70's. He showed me how to do it but I found filler to be a lot easier and in all honesty lasts just as long if applied correctly. That would make for a good video topic though. Thanks for you input and glad you enjoyed the video :)

I want teachers to be able to have their kids watch these videos - can't have a bunch of cuss words and negative comments 😊

Thanks for the story from the 70's and 80's David - good times. You're right - the MIG really made it easier :)

Here's one option for cheap future rust prevention - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html

Please check back with in the next few weeks. I'm working on a video that thoroughly explains why this method is used in body shops in Michigan. Here's some information on the reasoning behind a combination of butt and lap: Lap welding is how most, if not all high volume body shops in Michigan repair rust on late model vehicles with 22 gauge (.030”) or thinner sheet metal (welding or adhesive). Strictly butt welding a patch panel, which has become popularized by the internet and TV, is not the best quality repair on today's thinner metal and there are many good reasons why professional body shops don't do it. Shops use a combination of both lap and butt (butt for rigid areas that can’t be tapped down) on almost every patch but would never just butt two pieces of metal up (gap or no gap), weld it, then grind away at the area attempting to metal finish it. Here why with good reason - especially Eastwood’s starting 22 seconds in: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rpH50kh4W00.html * ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MfKlNQF-o4I.html * Today’s metal is .030. That is literally 6 hairs (hair is .005) thick. You start grinding on that and the result is paper thin welds & surrounding metal. Your goal is to have one method that works on everything. Surely you’re not going to butt weld and metal finish this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-36zkc9UQaTs.html or some of my other rust repair videos. Use small overlap, weld solid and you won’t have to worry about moisture - especially if you keep the drain holes clean (most important thing in rust prevention). Note that the opening of the seam is upside down on the inside (no moisture trapped). See these videos for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html ***** www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o37dX- Let me know if this long winded explanation helped out :) Jerry

@@LakesideAutobody thank you very much I have a 1997 f150 that I have to do some rust repair on that’s why I was curious. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. please keep up the informative videos. .

Thanks - glad I could help - let me know how your project goes. Ask ?s too - I answer 1-2 times a day :)

There is a guy Luis at First Generation Garage on YT that welds everything with flux core and is awesome at it - he's going to do a few videos on the methods he uses I think :)

Thanks Paul - I appreciate the support :)

Awesome question and I will be posting a video on that exact topic w/in the next couple weeks. For large areas like this it needs to be roughed up good with anything under 80 grit - used sharp paper or fiber resin disks - filler adhesion is a mechanical bond and need to grab onto or lock into the scratches. Don't use a DA with fine paper :)

Absolutely not true. All this talk about not touching this or that - oil from you hands - on and on. Guys in a body shop don't have oily hands - they're dusty and dry as a bone. Got to have good shop habits that's all. Good luck doing body work without touching the car :)

Your so right,,with some people safety's not a priority,,disc without a guard,,lethal,,,

What's way worse is a wire cup brush with the grinder lock button on! Fml that was a close eye opener so to speak! Never again with the trigger lock! Wow

Actually not too much. I've been hit with every tool used in a body shop and Yes, you will get cut but, nothing that will need stitches. Thanks for the concern though Jack - have a good weekend :)

For sheet metal like 20 or 22 gauge you'll want to use a lower voltage or minimum temp so that you don't "blow" through or burn through the thin metal and make a hole :)

Nice 😊 - Feel free to ask any questions you have - I get to them 1-2 times a day :)

Just disconnect the negative batt cable when welding. No one in a body shop grinds the welds completely flat - that's internet, TV, magazine stuff. Don't waste time, materials or good welds doing so. Weld, lightly grind the welds, sand blast or wire brush the seam, tap down the seam, fill. You want something between the welded seam and the finish and filler is great for that. A butt welded seam right under the finish will begin to show eventually if driven in salt water and the elements. Watch this video for more info - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JIIonJOVro4.html

I think that was the part I was going to weld, grind and tap down before filling. If that wasn't it, the other side (towards the ground) was touched up and straightened before painting :)

After you take off the top gummy layer of filler with the Stanley surform - it's a lot easier to sand. Use a brand new, 36-40 grit piece of sand paper too - cuts real fast.

Thanks UPK - I'll stop over to your channel to see how the box chevy is coming along - that's going to be one sweet car when your done. Have a great weekend - Jerry

@@LakesideAutobody Thanks Jerry have a great weekend!

My friend uses the Lincoln wire and say it works real well too. Thanks for the comment and the information - good stuff :)

Thanks a lot my friend - sorry about the late reply :)

You can't really tell what is "bad" if you don't cut because panels rust from the inside out. You can feel the the bad metal when cutting as thin metal cuts super easy. Not only that, you don't want that thin metal just rusting away clogging up the drain holes and causing water and debris to be held between the panels in "pockets". Hope that's not confusing :)

I have not but I really don't have a problem with rust coming back. If you make sure your panels can drain and dry - your good. I squirt some oil in the doors, tail gate, hood, rockers, etc. It settles at the bottom and starts to creep around and coat everything preventing future rust - here's a video on preventing rust: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NXAo5IfMtPM.html

Thanks - glad you liked the video - you have a cool channel name. It has a lot of potential. Folks love science and learning really :)

Yes - that's how it's done. You want a buffer between your seam and the paint work. Without using a layer of rigid filler you are depending on your welds to be perfect. If not you have bubbling paint soon after the paint job is done.

You should list them so that folks can understand what you are talking about.

That's a myth. I'll do a follow up video on this truck as I have to do a quarter panel on it. This fender, after driving it for a year or two in the winter, will look just fine. All outdoor buildings, ships, bridges are done with flux core and they are painted so... not sure if that says anything but... something to think about.

Absolutely 😊

.030" - the stuff that came with the welder. A friend of mine says Lincoln wire works better though :)

It has a good chance - I get to keep an eye on it as the truck belongs to a neighbor. Have a good week :)

Thanks - glad you enjoyed it :)

MIG welding is easier for sure but any flux core welder from Harbor Freight can do the job if you practice for a bit first. You burn through a few times but once your on a roll you'll be fine :)

No problem. Strictly butt welding and metal finishing is more of an internet/TV/magazine thing. Most Michigan body shops used a combination of lap and butt - even panel adhesive or fiberglass. See these videos as to why: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JIIonJOVro4.html **** ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rpH50kh4W00.html For longevity see this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html

@@LakesideAutobody Thank you for the clear perspective !!!

@@mikep95133 You're welcome. The body shops in Michigan use a combination of welds. Mostly lap welds in open stretches that can be tapped down (seams). On edges that can't be tapped down and you don't want them looking thick or altered you would butt weld. The shops that I worked at anyway - and they had very good reputations for doing quality work. A lot of shops use glues or adhesives for certain rust repairs. I'll include all the different types of repair methods on this channel so you can choose which will work best for you and each of your repairs.

You jus told everyone that you never worked in a body shop 😊

Angle grinders are never used in auto body shops. 7" or 5" sander/grinders are used with fiber resin grinding discs - usually 36 grit or 40. Flux core is never used either but this was for folks that wanted to know if it can be done. Here's what body shop welds should look like - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1BYqLM_mY1s.html

@@LakesideAutobody ah. Okay

Watch this video - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ic7Gwf8y4Yc.html If it don't help, practice putting single spot weld on a scrap piece of sheet metal - don't weld anything together - just spots w/o blowing through. Stay short on the trigger. Let me know how it goes for you :)

It's going to work but it'll take some practice. Some auto body guys will only use flux core.

Filler sticks real well to sand blasted metal. You can wire brush it though if you don't have a blaster. Here's the exact one I'm using - works great - www.autobodytoolmart.com/product/Zendex-speed-blaster/abrasive-blasting-equipment?gclid=Cj0KCQjwp86EBhD7ARIsAFkgakgy0eIiRSLD8V6peqv3wY5hR8jyELBM4424ISFgv38tVt6QZfnp6twaAq-GEALw_wcB

Thanks for the comment Mike - Happy Easter to you and your family :)

@@LakesideAutobody Same to you my friend!

I just bought a 4'x8' sheet - just one sheet. It was in Grayling though - my be different in Flint. Let me know how it goes for you :)

@@LakesideAutobody Thank you much...I'll let you know..

Filler sticks great to clean, freshly ground metal. Use a slow speed on your grinder/sander w/ 36-40 grit fiber resin disc. I get the idea of products that claim it will "provide protection" but it's not necessary. I've never seen it done in any shop I've worked at. In the end though it's up to you - what you think will work the best for your situation. I'll do a video on that - I've had a lot of folks ask that. Thanks, Jerry

@@LakesideAutobody appreciate the reply. Hope it didn't come off as rude, was a legit curiosity question for me. Thanks, love the page!

You can.. check this out for what I believe works the best - cheap and effective - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html

Just speaking from my own experience but my harbor freight 125 does just fine with the vulcan .030 flux core

I'm just using the wire that came w/ the welder (cheap). However, a friend of mine says he uses Lincoln wire and it works much better but that's hearsay so.... I am going to give it a try when I run out of this stuff and see :)

@@LakesideAutobody I tried both as well and I like the lincoln wire more

Thanks Rick - have a good week 😊

Thanks for the sub. Glad you like the channel. Here's a great vid to check out the longevity of the repair found on the channel - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gIS1Tbv7Kvw.html You're welcome BTW - enjoy the weekend :)

.030" - the wire that came with the welder from Harbor Freight :)

Yes, but it comes off real easy. Wire wheel on a drill takes most of it off and you have to grind the area anyway before filler - that takes the rest of it off. I give it a quick sand blast just to make sure the filler sticks real well too. Thanks for the support BTW and you're welcome - have a good weekend :)

@@LakesideAutobody Here in Australia BOC supplies anti spatter sprat. I use it a lot on general light gauge work , when using flux core. Not tried it on body panels, but it is water soluble, and makes clean up so much easier.

Thanks for the input John :)

With respect, that's not true. It's best to put filler over metal that was prepared with a 36 grit fiber resin disc. Filler will never see moisture again once it's painted. I don't understand why folks think you have to prime metal before filler. Never worked in a shop that did that - never saw it done once by anyone. Matter of fact, it was always "cheating" to put filler over anything but bare metal.

​@@LakesideAutobody , it seems we have different experience and skills in this case. Polyester-putty is hygroscopic and there is nothing else to say about. But you are right, as long there is no stone-chipping or scratch on the car finish, the putty can not absorb moisture. Also should polyester-putty not be wet sanded, or than min. 24 h dryed after wet sanding....otherwise coused bubbles after painting. I never use primer, but only epoxy- putty . Epoxy-putty also shrink less than polyester-putty and is more hard-wearing......but it is more difficult to finish it.

@@AchilleasR Here's something good to remember: Before all the modern 2K stuff of today there were the basic materials - lacquer primer, red putty, regular filler, etc. Some of the best paint jobs I ever saw came out of the 70's,80's, early 90's and all of them held up just fine - held up for as many years as you wanted to take care of the car. Yes the new stuff is better but not always necessary - you can save a lot of money using only what you "need" :)

@@LakesideAutobody yes, thats true .....new stuff are often just crap

@@AchilleasR Nice talking to you AR - no big deal having differences of opinions as long as there's respect - I respect your opinions and your open mind. Thanks for the comments and talk to you soon :)

That's good that you asked. You can run a bead on maybe about 1" of metal and not have a problem. Any longer than that you'll begin to have some serious metal distortion, the seam wanting to move, burn through, creation of oil canning situations where the panel pops in and out when cooled, etc. No one is afraid to run a bead - it's just that it's wrong to do so. Hope that helps you understand why body guys use spots and why factories also use spot welds :)

@@LakesideAutobody gotcha thanks! My wording might not have been the best. Every welding job I've ever had has been running beads and I just found it strange that y'all don't, but actually thinking about it in terms of physics, it does make sense. Thanks for the response, especially after a year after upload. That definitely earned a subscription. Keep up the great work man!

@@SebastianWoodard Your wording was fine - no problem. I'm glad you subscribed - feel free to ask any questions you have - any time. I get to the comments and questions 1-2 times a day. Have a great weekend ✌

When you are in tight spaces and the metal is firm like rockers, corners, wheel wells, etc., you don't have to worry about metal distortion. When in the open on flimsy type panels you do. Good thinking though. Here's the panel finished: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CNVENaswsio.html here's when I block sanded to get the body lines straight: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PkDY4b_I8w0.html

Thanks! Need to do corners, rockers, and rear wells. Was honestly wondering! So I can actually do the rockers and corners a bit quicker then the wells cause they are tighter firmer spaces. Going to pick up I think the titanium 140 pro 120volt from harbor freight and give it a go. Think it's gonna be around $550 to set up gas n all.

I just like to make sure that the metal is roughed up and super clean before using body filler and sand blasting does that a lot easier than say a wire brush or grinder etc.

The best way to treat the back is make sure it can drain and stay dry inside the panel and this - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html If you gunk it up or paint it inside it will actually create more problems.

The wire that came with the welder - .030". I hear for a good flux core guy that YESWELDER wire is really good - Lincoln flux core wire is also good stuff. Just what I hear from guys that use flux a lot. I use gas.

Here's how welding is done on .030" sheet 22 gauge - today's cars - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1BYqLM_mY1s.html Here's a follow up video on this repair years later - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-t1WclT_GMvk.html & ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gIS1Tbv7Kvw.html - If you want to know how body shops do it - not TV/internet/magazine articles you came to the right place 🛠☺

@@LakesideAutobody certified welder, used to weld for GE nuclear. 😂 Fish eye welding doesn't have penetration. Lay a bead and grind it down. That's what I do with my Sierra at home. At work its far cleaner and more scrutinized. This video is teaching many false information regarding welding. That's all. From stick to mig, to flux core, Tig, micro Tig, I've done it all.

@@GFG2gifted You sound like a great welder. See vid for penetration facts - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ic7Gwf8y4Yc.html

.030"

Thanks 👍 - Glad it was helpful.

I don't think the rasp would work as it would probably clog up but.... give it a try - you never know. The finish is fine because you sand it as you would normally sand filler after you get it close with the grater or (Stanley surform). Have a great weekend :)

@@LakesideAutobody I was thinking the same thing about the rasp clogging. N I meant is the surface relatively smooth n easy to sand after the grater? Which I suppose would depend on how fine or coarse the grater is. Enjoy your weekend. Rumor has it we might warm up a degree or 2 for the weekend lol

Yeah it's smooth cause you don't get that close with the grater. You have to know when to stop with anything, with the grater you stop in time to hit it with 80, and then 180, and then primer. It will be smooth

@@jonathanyates5198 You're right - gotta leave yourself some to hit with the sand paper.

Thanks and you're welcome. I did not on this job but am not worried about it as this patch panel has great drainage now. If it was my truck, however, after it was painted I would do this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html Also, if you can access the back it's really a good idea to sand blast it and coat it with some undercoating of your choice. I like stuff that stays flexible - never really gets brittle. There are a ton of choices out there - I have not found a favorite yet. Always open to ideas on that. Jerry

Absolutely 😊

@@LakesideAutobody thank you ill give it a try

.030"

A lot of internet, magazines and TV is just hearsay. Here's more on flux core - butt welding - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iznc9CCtZnw.html lap welding - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ic7Gwf8y4Yc.html

@@LakesideAutobody Do you know if the welding respirator masks I see for about $40 do a decent job? I don't see anyone wearing them but I want to avoid the fumes.

@@108doublestitches If they state they are for welding, I would trust that they are fine for what you're doing. Something like this would be perfect (NIOSH approved) - www.harborfreight.com/welding-silica-concrete-dust-mold-respirator-medium-57009.html 👍😊

Thanks again for teaching me about patch repairs and the flux core welder