Were Books Really Bound in Human Skin? 

ROSA I....

Epic!

amazing!

That's terrible and I love it! 🤣

Omg 😹😹😹

How fantastic, isn’t science great! I am a donor and if anything I have can be useful to another upon my death they are welcome to it. Though at a healthy 71 years old I don’t know what will be usable. Then my remains will be cremated and hopefully scattered or buried somewhere interesting. Circle of life.

Cadaver bone was used in my spine fusion. Without it, I'd be the Incredible Human Pretzel thanks to scoliosis. Been thankful for it ever since I was told, and it's why I'm an organ donor.

@@LexYeen same. I don't know if they'll want my organs after my cancer, but they're welcome to use my body for cadaver research in med school. It's a great cause.

@@Bluesbabesrv your skin is still donatable until 80 years, your cornea until 85. At least where im from 🙂

@@Sarcazzer bear in mind there are other exclusions that become increasingly likely with age before any cut-offs, too. If you're passionate about donation, it's worth investigating what you need to do in your area to set up a plan b, like donation for research, anatomy education, or use in a "body farm" study, just in case you're not eligible to donate. ❤️

I love this for you. Any particular book in mind?

So cool!

yes I was just thinking of skin but all that goes with it! I wonder if I could make a entire book pages and all? ❤

Imagine beautiful albino leather being sold on the black market. Alabaster skinned people disappearing in dingy slums.

I feel like that got pretty sarcastic at the end. But the beginning seemed so passionate..hmm.🤔

I'm curious, since you are in the unique position to be the living family/descendants of a human skin book... How do you feel about what she said in the video?

@@jayleejames864 hi! Which part?

@@thehermit5886 have you visited the book?

@@stephanie22345 possibly when I was younger, I’m not sure. The book resides in a museum in England, and I live in Australia, but I may have visited the museum when I was younger and visited England with my family.

@@thehermit5886 grim way to go, but by that time the sentence was probably commuted to beheading

should i skip school for youtube video making? i making good stuff but i need much time to making. maybe replace school with making videos. i have two girlfriends. thanks for your opinion dear jus

Or... history with a "Classy Mortician"

fools that don't really know anything at all but to bury the dead, Jesus said let the dead bury the dead but You Follow me for I'AM life in the flesh the Holy Light of Eternal Life I'AM Emmanuel GOD with you for only a short time to redeem what belongs to I the Creator of all things even hell did I create but not for mankind he that steals with does not belong to him Lucifer Satan the fallen one the darkness of the deep void all the same one, he hinds behind a lot of names

@@ronaldcossin4525 What ARE you on about?👀

Yep.

very glad i wasn’t alive back then. go to the doctor with a headache and come back with “medical cocaine” and an amputated leg

An earlier doctor was walking around with one of the first medical bags - made from the hide of a pirate hanged on the Boston commons. Sometimes you have to wonder, who was the first doctor to have good intentions.

@@thoughtengine The doctor with the good intentions, that would probably be Hypocrates.

@@chkingvictim Sounds like an ork painboy from a Games Workshop game...

@@chkingvictim I really wouldn't mind some "medical cocaine" prescribed for a headache. But hey, I'm a fucking ex-junkie, were I alive then I sure would have a lot of coughing fits for that sweet sweet heroin sold without prescription for the symptoms of common cold, probably.

Hahahahaha I was thinking the same but it was super fitting! ❤️

It was brilliant.

God I love it! It's absolutely mortifying isn't it?! I'm trying to find it.

Can you say: Criminal Minds episodes? Forensic Files? FBI Files? Unsolved Mysteries? America's Most Wanted? Law & Order..."Ripped from the headlines"?

"some" lol

Definitely.

caveman: "Argh! I fell on a sharp piece of wood last week, and now there's splinters trapped inside the wound preventing it from healing!" the caveman equivalent of that guy who collects knives: "Let me witness your FLESH. I will PURIFY it." And that's the story of humanity's first surgeon.

As the daughter of a surgeon, I have to concur. However, I think my dad is more of a garden variety-weird. Now, he did have a colleague who was a GI doc…who had jars of gallstones and kidney stones on his desk. They were oddly pretty, for what it’s worth.

You have a wonderful museum

@@helgabluestone2407 Thank you! :-) We'd love to see you here one day!

Absolutely love your Museum. It’s a must visit whenever in the US. When the current restrictions to our travel are lifted we’ll be back. Thank you for all the hard work curating your incredible collection. x🇦🇺

It is indeed a fascinating museum. It’s also great for dates.

@@theMutterMuseum I love your collaborations!!

Was it also him who was made into shoes or was that someone else? I know someone got turned into shoes.

I think they bound a note book in his skin.

So true! Love your comment! It's already done and over. We should use it as a learning tool. Even though our ancestors were crude and weird.... We gotta learn from them, and hope to never repeat their weird and crude mistakes ever ever again.

Yes but does displaying the books as a rare prize send the correct message about this? Or does it rationalize the actions of the book binders of the past: "Well if they hadn't done what they did, Harvard wouldn't have this amazing piece for its collection." That flippant press release shows that there is a potential for these items to be used not for teaching the errors of the past, but for celebrating them.

I watched a documentary on the BBC about forensic archaeology, one of the team had been 'gifted' an exhibit a child from the 1800s. As the team discussed the case and found out more about the boys life they decided to give him a proper burial. I know that this is more than just a bit of skin but my point is that the story is what matters and that sorry ended right, Marys and all the others haven't.

I want to be a book. I'll be immortal. Well, sort of. LMAO! Ah, grief got me acting dumb. Just wanted to say, I LOVE your comment. I could not agree more.

I agree 100%. Plus, so long as the staff treats the books with respect, which they seem to be doing, I think that there's incredible value in keeping them around. Yes, what happened was awful, but concrete items that represent atrocious acts play a key part in education, preventing them from happening again.

Unfortunately they don't want people thinking like that because people who think like that question things and that's threatening to the establishment. I didn't realize that when I was a kid I just figured I was an insubordinate it bad child I now know I was pushing against a system that had been created for me by asking questions. Now is an adult if I ask questions I am attacked I am attacked not much has changed.

As a side note I completely agree with you.

Yes I think the libraries trying to find out about the source of the skin is great - that doctor didn't even give Mary Lynch her full name, which feels so dehumanising to me - his credit is far more important to him, while her death seems to be the important detail about her and he even got the date wrong! I'm kinda surprised he didn't go all in and include the chance to boast about his confirming her diagnosis/cause of death too, but maybe the lack of details means he was worried about repercussion if her family discovered he'd taken her skin..? I think it's good to show the historical context, and to have this difficult conversations

I tried and got called a bot. It literally hurt my soul but I aggressively lovingly agree.

@@matthewdeckerofficial you were called a bot for talking about a completely unrelated topic. There’s a time and a place for everything. Trying to hijack a comment thread to expound upon an issue of concern to you that’s wholly unrelated to the video is pretty much what defines bot behavior. And if you’re this easily emotionally wounded, the internet and social media specifically probably isn’t for you.

Is there any suspicions of whose skin is used as the binding for those books? I’m curious if that’s at all known

Skin books are different than skin mags, just saying

@@aprilmay1700 I wonder, are you trying to be April May from Ace Attorney?

As a dad I can tell you he did it on purpose

Dads have to dad

HI DAD❤

Did anyone else die at 35:50 😂

@@djonnyrocket8768 "I didn't make *that* much noise." 😄😄

I immediately felt a kindred spirit with your dad.

This IS the man that replaced a pale, dead fish with an identical live one to freak his wife out (and consequently delaying Caitlin's first experience with death)

@@bird2793 Huh, I just realized my first experience with death was a murder. Of a tadpole. By my cat.

@@HaleyJo1992 I think mine was my dad taking the head off a fish. Apparently I started crying and told him to “put it back on”. 😂 He said something along the lines of “You like eating fish yeah? We can’t eat him alive can we?” I thought that was a pretty good point so I stopped crying lol.

So true. Lots of double standards of ethics in regards to class.

A very thorough, well thought out vid. Your treatment of both sides was excellent. We don't approve of past horrors but we need them around to remind us to be compassionate and respectful. We prove our lack of humanity in burying our past grievous acts.

Yep. I often think about this.

They've definitely dug up all sorts of pharaohsemperors, kings etc. I think at some point, we are removed enough to see them as archeological evidence vs the bodies of dead humans. But yes, there is absolutely a complete disrespect for non-upper class people.

it’s also all well and good to put pharaohs in museums

Me

✋️

Not right away, but I thought about this video

You are just one step from realizing that using cattle for cattle ain’t great at all.

Wait until you learn about Igbo slavery.

Flesh is flesh. I'd argue its pretty disgusting to cut up any living thing. At least the humans were dead before their skin was used, not murdered for their skin.

Will you get a tattoo of the book name on you first ?

@@trentgay3437 That would be a cool idea if I wasn't TERRIFIED of needles and thus unable to bring myself to get a tattoo (even though I really want one). lol

I'm a writer, so my final book will be bound with my skin, just because I can and that seems extra

@@idiotically-everything Oh that is definitely extra. You can specify your skin will be used to bind your book? That would be lovely. I'd have my private book of poems bound in my skin.

@@MamboDogFace Not sure of the legality, but I'm gonna try :3

To be honest, that was my first thought too. Really wouldn't be surprising.

Same……. I breathed a sigh of relief!

Me, too.

same. looking at history I think it's not unreasonable to expect that from white colonizers... look at what Columbus did to indigenous ppls. :/

While doubtful she would have been granted consent, the way these books seem to be lovingly cared for would be the epitome of immortality for an author. I wonder if Stephen King would object to this? These days we barely know the names of our great grandparents. To leave a piece of yourself with your greatest life work is touching. No pun intended but... What if Van Gogh could have left a painting on a canvas made of his own skin? Or a clothing designer using their own hair to make clothing? Does the use of other mediums change our perception? The Nazi's made clothing out of the hair shaved off of the heads of the Jews. I stared at the exhibit for minutes and minutes, squinting to see individual hairs. Wanting to fully acknowledge each one as priceless. Should these be dismantled and buried due to how they were obtained? Would "burying" them be paradoxical, by hushing their impact on humanity?

Same! I wish it was on Spotify so I could confuse my friends when I played this! LOL

it killed me lmaoooooo

It was glorious... and scared my dog out the door. he won't come back in now... 😅

"I can be anythiiiing"

The best part was pairing it with the Evil Dead II scene in the background.

So cool! Thank you for sharing!

Whoa that's an interesting addition to the story. Sort of fits with my vibe that there was a sort of crafter "be a shame for all this material to just go to waste" impulse being acted upon.

Now that really is interesting! Thank you for sharing that! You never know who you will meet in the RU-vid comments! Once I meet Big Bird's son! I had a chance to tell him how much I adored his father in Sesame Street. His dad had died, but I have a true love for my childhood idol. Thanks for sharing your family tree. I think it's awesome that he knew and acknowledged that it was Mary's skin. He had given her life and greatness after death that she didn't get in life. Extraordinary!

What an interesting - and yet sad - addition to the story. I'm sure the Mutter would love to know this about the Mary's and that some of JSH's descendants are still around. These are all ready priceless books, but this would put a unique anecdote on them.

prove it

That's not a joke, that's just fact. Her patreon supporters are delicious.

@@falleithani5411 but the real question that hasn't been asked is, "What do they taste like?"

@@ChristopherSadlowski Chicken. They taste like chicken.

This is why she's fantastic

@@Gladiamdammit - Real Long Pig tastes like Pork.

You’re missing out a chunk in life if you have not watched Ash in Army of Darkness 🧟‍♂️

There is a fun book called the Necronomnomnomicon that is a cookbook based on the writings of H.P. Lovecraft. It's beautiful and very funny, if you're into that kind of thing. My fav recipe title is "New England Damned Chowder" lol!

Ah yes, Necronomicon! My favorite panels are "Human toes and their many uses", "Graverobbing 101", "Why you should never use necromancy on whales", and "Ask a Lich (18+)"

Yeah instead of awesome dark magic we get a racist coward who said he liked h*tler, v boring imo (and yes i have read some of his stories, not that scary imo unless youre a bigot yourself, that for some reason fears different races and species or different body parts/disabilities. Knowing all his horror was based on his fear of poc really removes the intrigue, especially with the ones depicting poc poorly)

@@CommanderWiggins "never use necromancy on whales" *inhales* im gonna fukin do it

Well lucky you. She’s published on Amazon now. I checked. Wanted to look into reading her work myself.

@@MissCaraMint Don't really know why I'm lucky? Yes I am hoping I can read at least one of Caitlin's amazing books too!

I whole heartedly agree. Trying to erase the past is a folly.

you call it a different world, but it is important to remember that this happen our world not so very long ago.

I'm wondering if her family have any input into these books because it's her remains 🤔

RE: “different world.” Human skin book binding wasn’t the norm then either. I understand what you’re getting at. (I assume: “don’t judge bc we can’t understand” or thereabouts is your point.) However, Generalizing human book binding as part of the norm of that time doesn’t work. It was fringe in the 18th & 19th centuries too.

Trying to erase, deny or make any part of history more “palatable” is *ALWAYS* wrong! IF such books were being carted around & presented as something to be viewed to entertain people…that would be disrespectful & wrong. But these books…at least those not owned by private collectors…are being treated & preserved with respect & are being used to teach the public not only about the time period they were made in but also about the lives & deaths of those whose skin was used(when known). While many of those whose skin was used to bind such books didn’t consent to it…I imagine many of them would approve of their story supported & enforced by the actual book being used to educate people that such practices did occur & most often the social failures & inequalities which allowed for it. So that hopefully it will never happen again. Also I would imagine many if not most would approve of their memory being kept alive since it goes beyond just their name beside the book their skin was used on. As those who share these books with the public tell them as much as is known about such people’s lives as well as much about the point in history they lived & died in. I can understand some people’s wish for the skin or even entire book to be buried or destroyed as that would remove any reminder that society ever did such things besides for text & photos in history books & websites as well as “weird facts” sites. Which would mean it wouldn’t be known by many who didn’t go looking for such info & thus could be largely forgotten by society. The desire to do the same with much of history people find disturbing or which they feel ashamed ever happened. Which attempts to do so are occurring *RIGHT NOW* by banning fiction & nonfiction books on such topics from schools & colleges along with movements to remove any mention of slavery, racial inequality & the harms done to Native Americans & other races from K-12th history books & even in some colleges here in America! The purpose of history is to teach us where we collectively came from, how we got to where we are now & most importantly…the mistakes & horrors which occurred so that we never allow those or similar ones to ever occur again. As we’ve seen with both government & social response to the pandemic…such knowledge of history CAN be vital to avoiding repeating history. If you don’t know…we in fact DID NOT learn from previous pandemics & thus failed to avoid many of the same mistakes. And our government & society are repeating mistakes from history which I truly hope don’t lead to similar conclusions. Also by not forcing schools to properly teach history(& government)our government can more easily divide, control & lie to citizens thus maintaining control & freedom to do what they want. A poorly educated or poorly informed citizenry is an easily controlled & manipulated one. If you don’t believe our country is poorly educated look up literacy rates when you get a chance & the channels that go out to ask random people questions any elementary student should know. Or you know…watch the game show “Are you as smart as a 5th grader”.🤨

We can't change the past, but we can give the respect due to the dead. Do you always disapprove of burying found human remains? Because that's what these books are, found human remains. We can't know if the people whose skin was used for these books wanted to be buried, but considering how many religions require burial/cremation as part of the death rites, burying seems like a good start.

The person’s brain no longer exists. Said person no longer exists, so he or she has no idea if we keep the skinbook or bury it

​@@PrincessSixThirteen how to give respect to the dead is actually a rather complicated question. Not every culture or person has the same notion as what defines 'respectful' treatment of a deceased person. maybe someone actually wanted to be a book. Maybe they wanted to be blown out of a cannon. Maybe they wanted a "proper burial" or maybe they wanted to be cremated. If I was buried I'd be pretty annoyed tbh. I want to be aquamated. And not everyone is religious, nor has everyone in history always been religious. If you're this concerned about the people whose skin was used to make these books being respected and their wishes in some manner fulfilled, are you then going to presume to guess someone's personal desire for disposal of their remains? "Well alot of ppl back then in that area were catholic so let's go with a catholic funeral!" (Imagine if the person was in fact Jewish. That'd be a hell of an oops) From my point of view, these books are more akin to organs being donated against someone's will than a body being stolen. If you're viewing a section of skin as being an important part of someone's identity then I'm curious how you'd view organ donation. And there are definitely people who think you should keep everything of yours when you die. And others who are happy to give up all their organs when they die, even their skin. We don't know these victims' answers to those questions. I personally think presuming to know their thoughts on it is akin to putting words in their mouths. Correctly calling them victims and treating their remains with respect and as a teaching tool (as well as finding out their names to restore their identity) gives them a dignity in death that they were cheated of in life. And for me, that's being respectful.

Especially if there are no families of the deceased who are distressed about the condition of their relative's remains. If the family/group of origin is distressed, you need to give stuff back to the people & families they came from. Other times, the situation is different.

@@electrictroy2010 While in this case I think there is value in keeping the books around, "this person doesn't exist anymore because they're dead" is a bad approach to human remains. If that were true across the board, there would be no need to respect the wishes of the dead, and we could just throw everyone in a landfill. While you or I might not be bothered by that for ourselves, respect for the dead is kind of a cornerstone of our society, and one of the main points of this channel

And some made of cat skin? Where's my copy of, "Will My Cat Eat My Eyeballs"??

Me: *looks at my copy of "The Way of All Flesh" by Samuel Butler* Me: HMMMM

Me looking nervously at my "leather" bound edition of Little Big Man... 😥

Roflmbo 🤣🤣🤣

🤣🤣 freaking loving it!

My thoughts exactly oh how we have missed you our death guru 😂😂😂

1:02 *"Everyone say Hi to my Dad."* Hi Catlin's Dad! LOL! 🤣

Never get enough of Caitlin!!! I learn everytime I watch😀Best to you Caitlin and to All that gather here😀

the reading rainbow theme song at the end got me more

Luved it!

It's a barometer, thank you for identifying your results, noted. I'm horrified. Here's my number..

It's too fucking funny 😂😂 kills me every time

She’s getting REALLY good 😂

Caitlin's animated mouth reminds me of that old "Clutch Cargo" series - and yes I'm old enough to remember that! 🤕

lol

Oh? What are the weirdest contents that you've found in those old books?

@@shart8008 I'm nearly positive that whatever it is it's horrifically racist.

I agree with this sentiment. There's so heinous shit out there.

@@ChristopherSadlowski oh, it very much is. I'm German, so I usually get at least a couple of n4zi surprises a day. Sometimes those types of books can get damaged beyond repair completely, 100% on accident though and we sadly have to throw them into the garbage where they absolutely belong.

Damn, at the end you meet survivors? What do you even say or do? I would want to hold them, as if that would do anything to heal what they'd been through. I feel like the hug would just be for me to feel like I had done something for these people who went through hell...

@@littletechn8175 yeah it was an experience I have never forgotten, obviously. It hit most of us like you cannot believe. When I hear people try to deny the Holocaust these days it angers me. Denying historical fact just shows a level of ignorance, and in some cases stubborn headedness, that I just cannot fathom.

I really wondered why Cait didn't talk about the Holocaust and the human skin artifacts. The barbaric evidence that exists in regards to the atrocities the Jewish people suffered is undeniable.

Field trips like that would never happen nowadays. Sad…

@@jonseymouse She did though? Go back and watch it again.

With the consent of the owner of said skin, of course :)

1:02 *"Everyone say Hi to my Dad."* Hi Catlin's Dad! LOL! 🤣

Why should someone's great great grandson have any say what happens to a piece of their ancestor's skin?

These books are rare and interesting enough that I don't think it would be wise to let descendants just destroy them :/

@@cla_rence Because that’s how we handle our dead in this country. It’s the closest next of kin.

@@melisa8256 By "this country" I imagine you mean the US. I'm not from here so idk, but isn't there laws about remains that have become artefacts ? Where I live, once human remains have become part of museum collections, they can't be destroyed or sold (which has its own issues.) Anyways, my point remains, I don't think it's wise to give unique pieces of history to people for them to destroy it.

Or he just kept notes. I know my college's anatomy lab was not unusual for having a collection of odd things removed from the donated remains. The Mutter Museum itself grew out of a doctor's collection of oddities. it just used to be the default thing to collect oddities as teaching tools.

"age 28 years, widow" oh... as if dying at such young age wasn't bad enough on its own

@@griffenspellblade3563 lmao you’re right, but the way you just dashed that person’s romantic fantasy about caring so much for the person who’s skin was made into a ´treasured’ book as a ´memento mori, *sigh*´ like, ´Nope. It’s just good record keeping’. I’m 💀

In a way he preserved her history. A poor common citizen, completely unknown otherwise.

I agree. It showed he valued her in some form, her life, what he was able to learn from her autopsy, and of course her skin. If only everyone thought hey I'm using this person's skin (or whatever organ) I should credit them and give information to honor them.

What was the reaction from the class? 🤔😳

@@em9341 it's the recognition that she was a person, and the knowledge of her story that wouldn't otherwise have been known

I thought the same thing. I suspect the staff looking after her now view her as far more human than the staff who "cared" for her whilst she was alive. This is a very potent reminder of how brutal the 19th century could be.

@@em9341 then you must also accept that she wouldn't have been recognised or known if it wasn't for the books or the strips of her on them. You can only memorialise someone if there is a trace of them and it was clear she was going to be another record in an asylum if it wasn't for them.

@@em9341 then you must also accept that she wouldn't have been recognised or known if it wasn't for the books or the strips of her on them. You can only memorialise someone if there is a trace of them and it was clear she was going to be another record in an asylum if it wasn't for them.

@@em9341 Respect looks different to many people. For example, I'd be honored if someone thought my skin was worth preserving like this, personally, but you probably wouldn't. There's no one right way to respect someone, as it comes in many forms. Plus, like others have said, without her skin being preserved, we wouldn't know who Mary L even was. Would you rather her story be forgotten instead of being used to spread awareness? There's really something to be said about the way we in society treat disabled people, and this is just one horrific example of how people don't even necessarily see us as humans due to our disabilities. Her story is one worth sharing. She doesn't deserve to be just another statistic.

I know nothing about Icelandic necropants, but I love the Middle Ages Were Magic segments. There's no one else I'd rather learn about such a topic from.

' Necropants' is a great name for a dark metal band ! lol

As an Icelandic person I NEED a video about the necropants! Caitlins talent for history about corpse and such would do this part of our history so much justice!!!

If you pull them down on your friend are you a... necropantser?

@@sunshine4ndrainbows397 Now that joke is truely groan worthy. Nice one. 🤣👍

Caitlin is amazing 😍

That's so darkly wholesome.

you know what they say: a family that indulges their morbid curiosity together stays together

Which book is it?

@@oboy7167 it’s a romance novel/smut book called “His Princess”.

@@medusagorgo5146 okay I just laughed out loud that such an original and thought-provoking concept came from softcore porn

A. Sphincter say what?? That's what you got out of the vid 😂🤣😂🤣😂 You have a book hidden away, don't you? ALERT, I'M JUST KIDDING 🙏✌️

True! She has a great speaking voice and super clear enunciation! I bet she would be entertaining as a theater actor!

I'd say someone has a crush. ;)

@@deannawheeler4362 Don’t we all?

Oh, so you’re new here huh?

You could also be a drum. Just saying.

@@free2bme520 that sounds pretty cool too, i wouldnt mind being used for someones art project as well as long as its respectful. im planning on getting a lot of tattoos and maybe like a tarp or smthn of all my tattoos cld b one of those “oddity” art projects, but i think itd b a super cool way to preserve art

Ooh, is donating your body to art possible? I'd love for every piece of me to be used. Use my skin for a book and make a necklace out of my spine. I'll be dead, I'd rather my meat sack be used than just decay.

Yeah, I agree. There could be people who would absolutely hate if their body was used that way, be that because of religious beliefs or just not wanting your corpse to be cut up and become a possession. But they were never given a choice.

@@getsouped Snorri Ásmundsson was looking (possibly still is?) to dance with a donated corpse as an art project. I thought that would be an interesting thing for my dead body to be apart of.

and bound to each other figuratively speaking

Good one!

This random internet stranger is sending positive vibes your way. I hope you heal well ❤️

@@grimsqueaker437 thank you so much,,that's so kind of you . I really appreciate it. 💞

Wow, that is amazing! Sending you love and prayers for your healing!

I'm not quite sure what you just wrote. Are you saying doctors took some of your skin to create a new esophagus because you had to have your "old" one removed? If so: modern medicine is amazing and badass! And good wishes to you, I hope you recovered well it sounds like quite the ordeal.

I may be facing removal of my esophagus. Would you be willing to IM? I’d like to learn more.

I still really wish to have a "Middle Ages Magic" shirt 😩! It would be our Deathlings' inside joke thing lol 😂!

I'd especially expect it from the 30s, tbh...

Great question. I wish I knew the answer.

It does. There is a company that'll harvest your tattooed skin, preserve it,then frame it for your family.

there's a video about preserving tattoos after death on this channel

I tend to agree. I think the example of the reaction from Princeton to a book at Harvard is also (in my opinion, mind), based on what is what is presented here of his arguments, more than questionable. It strikes me as very much anything but a reasoned, or even compassionate, reaction, but rather smacks of a highly emotional reaction (e.g., the loaded language without, so far as what we are given is concerned, anything more than highly questionable assumptions about motivations of people more than a century dead -- assumptions, moreover, based on psychoanalytical theories which have themselves come in for considerable criticism from both historians and reputable psychological researchers. In other words, a "gut-level" emotional rather than truly reasoned and deliberated reaction based solidly on evidence and measured thought. (Once again, I wish to make it clear: this is my opinion based on the summary of his arguments as presented here; his entire argument might well substantiate his claims; but, given their resemblance to so many such which have become all-too-common in recent decades -- notthat they were ever exactly scarce to begin with -- and which more cautious investigation has,if not entirely exploded, at least seriously undermined... I remain inclined to doubt it.) Furthermore, I can sympathize to a fair degree with such a reaction; it is just that I also sympathize with the concept of these as historical artifacts which in themselves tell a story, and which are important in being examples from which to learn about not only our own cultural biases of different times -- including the present, which is no less prone to error than any earlier -- and how to see the people of the past not as aliens becauase of those differences, but as people very much like us, with different prejudices and assumptions, some of which are indeed seriously open to question ethically... but at the same time keeping in mind our own faults in that direction, and how we might learn to do better from those we are criticizing. All that said, I do think that, simply on the level of respect for any living descendants/relatives who might have such an objection, their views should be quite seriously considered in making any decision on such a matter as the disposal of these relics of the past.

Finding relatives is pretty much impossible without accurate information on the donor. If someone knocked on my door and told me that they had books made from a great-great-granduncle, I'd find it interesting but there wouldn't be an emotional connection. The phone calls to relatives would be unique.

@@sw3783 a dead person is dead. They aren't here anymore. They can't be harmed. What matters is whether other (living or yet to be living) people are harmed by what's done to the body. Displaying native bodies is dehumanising to living and future indigenous people. The book made from Mary L? Less easy to claim it's actively harming anyone by being used to teach others about a dark time in history.

@@sw3783 I think you should reconsider what I was actually saying, which is that if someone connected to Mary L. was discovered or came forward, they should have final say over what remains of her. Until then, how can you possibly presume to know what she would want? And no, I am not an apologist for native remains being taken by scientists-- I've actually worked with native groups to reclaim the remains of their ancestors. It still has to be proven that they are, in fact, their ancestors, though. You can't just assume they are connected because of your personal beliefs and sensitivities. At that rate, let's just bury all history without review! I believe cultures should have rights over their artifacts, but that requires an in-depth knowledge of what that culture is before just making assumptions and giving things away.

@@sw3783 cry about it on twitter

Hear, here! I was equally impressed! Well done!

I don't think that's weird! As a person who loves books for their content and as objects, I'd be happy to consent to my skin being used for that purpose, especially if a family member would appreciate that as an heirloom. I think there's an obvious difference between a doctor unnecessarily cutting strips off of dead poor people for their own purposes and choosing for part of one's own body to be used in book binding!

As another museum worker and someone who is soon to graduate with a degree, I respectfully disagree. We have no need for an item to teach about it and the controversy around them. As I talked about in my comment, when I learned about Mrs. Baartman and the way the world mistreated her, there was no need for her literal corpse to be on display. Unless there is explicit consent from the person themselves (who was used) and/or their direct family, we should put them to rest. A part of a skin is still part of a person and should be respected as such. Just because I would consent to some of my skin being used, does not mean that I should force that view into academia as a whole.

@@TheRunningLeopard ok but if we give parts of people the same respect as all of people then should we go bury every single skeleton in a museum and every single object that has any part of a human? Those books do not hurt anyone, unless they begin to hurt someone like if a relative wants the books gone then why should we destroy parts of history just because a few people think that it feels icky.

Consider along with all that, human skin leather is widely believed to be an urban legend. What would it mean if the evidence of its non-consensual creation was destroyed by default? Certainly, they shouldn't be presented as just an historical curiosity, and probably they shouldn't be displayed at all, but if destruction necessarily even the most respectful memorial? These are some of the artefacts of the development of modern medicine, which was built on an incredible degree of disrespect and dehumanisation of poor and enslaved people, both in life and in death. The perpetrators of this were people fundamentally just like us. If the proof of our openly doing things like this so recently had all been destroyed years ago, could we have so quickly recognised and believed that, say, "Real Bodies: The Exhibition" was made up of the bodies of non-consenting political prisoners? If one of those anonymous book covers are part of one of my relatives' remains, I'd hope she was carefully preserved in an off-display collection, proudly reminding the people who care for her of what was done to her, and telling us not to let it happen again.

@@TheRunningLeopard cry about it on twitter

Erasing history is never a good idea.

SAAAAMEEEEEE OMG i didn't know other people like me existed

Same. I would actually not mind having my skin be bound as a book, and although the skin in these books were not taken consensually, I think it should remain as an option.

If the skin was taken with the individual’s fully informed consent, then I’d agree with you. However, I would argue people’s right to dignity and bodily autonomy trumps preserving these books. There are other ways to preserve the history of the books. Finally following through on the person’s desires for their own remains does not automatically equal erasure. We can still teach people about them, make sure people are aware of the controversy and history, and learn from the mistakes of the past while also honoring another human’s wishes for their remains. Or, if it was a case where we can find the family/descendants of a person whose skin was used without consent, asking what they want done. I say this as someone who also would love to have my own skin used for book binding- ya know, with my consent.

@@alwayscensored6871 So, y'know how these books were dismantled and the skin buried, and nevertheless we're all here talking about them? History is not erased by the destruction of, for example, a book bound in human skin, or say, a statue praising a racist piece of shit. Refusing to honor deplorable people or deplorable actions does not erase the memory of those people and actions.

One, ghosts do not exist. Two, how do you know she would not approve IF she existed? You are putting words in her mouth.

@@NoobsDeSroobs One, shut up.

@@NoobsDeSroobs swoosh

@@Aconitum_napellus Two? The first point was so hard hitting.

@@NoobsDeSroobs it was a joke you know- well you probably don't

Ah, DnD... what an awesome game... to pretend to be something completely different... :-)

A dnd necromancer became a Dad. Congratulate him for me.

Well, you know, necromancers are good at raising a family.

@@kellysouter4381 Okay, I get that quips like that may seem harmless and minor in the moment, but try to keep in mind that it's just like joking about women being bad at math, and it'll probably age just as poorly. In the end, it's only "funny" because it builds on a bunch of harmful and offensive stereotypes, invented by bullies, which have never had any basis in fact. For the record, my sister has been married to her DM for over a decade, and they are probably the happiest and most emotionally stable couple I've _ever_ known.