Western Mountaineering Hot Sac VBL Review: Added Sleeping Bag Warmth Vapor Barrier Liner

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Extend the warmth range of your sleeping bag with this vapor barrier liner. It weighs about 5 oz and can be used as an emergency bivy sack if you’re caught out in the wilderness at night. Aaron used this liner in Antarctica when it was so cold that even his Western Mountaineering Bison -40 deg F sleeping bag wasn’t enough. It’s the final answer in keeping you warm in the most extreme conditions on Earth.
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Опубликовано:

16 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 82

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

Get items from this video at Amazon: Hot Sac VBL: amzn.to/2Vm0ZiD Western Mountaineering Bison sleeping bag: amzn.to/2W6eLmL

@stacksmasher 5 лет назад

Thanks man! This is the only video review of this item.

@ALinsdau 5 лет назад

You're welcome...glad it was helpful.

@four-x-trading5606 3 года назад

Another guy has a review of it it's called sub zero sleep system 3 pound

@four-x-trading5606 3 года назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZZ349q3qsAA.html

@dougmerrill3812 Год назад

VBL's are a much better solution in frigid conditions than in mild or cool conditions. In frigid conditions, most of your nighttime perspiration is going to condense in the cold outer fill of your bag. Under those conditions, putting up with a little humidity is a small price to pay to prevent a cold night's sleep as your bag loses loft during the night from wet down. But if condensation is not a big issue, it is much more comfortable to just use a loftier bag that will breathe better. Aaron's examples were either with his Antelope bag or the Bison bag that he used in Antarctica. Both those bags are for bone chilling nights.

@andriusk5044 Год назад

if I don't want to sacrifice comfort then maybe having a second synthetic sleeping bag over the down bag could be a solution? I have seen Carinthia sleeping bag with two shells where you open up outer shell to remove ice crystals from between the layers.

@unerbittlich 4 года назад

thak u very much, i hanvnt find more informative vidios on youtube `bout vapor barrier liners. simon

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

Glad to help!

@dougmerrill3812 Год назад

For me, the greatest advantage of a VBL is the prevention of insensible perspiration infiltrating the fill in your sleeping bag. It is nice that a VBL can add a few degrees of warmth to your bag as the internal humidity in the bag slows down the body's insensible perspiration and consequent evaporative heat loss. However, in frigid conditions, moisture from your body infiltrating the sleeping bag fill will condense as it migrates towards the cooler, outer surface of your bag. Wet fill collapses. That robs a good sleeping bag of its loft and reduces its effective temperature rating. As the outer fill collapses, the effective loft decreases which shrinks the span over which the temperature gradient operates. That moves the cold spots in the fill towards the inner surface of the bag resulting in more condensation in previously dry fill. This can be a growing problem on a multi-day trip if you are unable to effectively dry a nighttime of condensation from your bag every day. This is more of a problem in down bags than those with synthetic fill but not a good situation in either case.

@kaya-sem Год назад

Ive found that I get alot of moisture in my bivy sack. Would this mostly eliminate it?

@dougmerrill3812 Год назад

@@kaya-sem Using a VBL inside a sleeping bag inside a bivy sack should help a lot with the moisture your skin releases at night. Your breath will still contain a lot of moisture so it is also important to exhale outside the bivy sack. This may be challenging in rain but there are a few workarounds for that situation. Keep in mind that any clothes you wear at night will become damp. In my experience, a VBL is best used wearing only a base layer to keep your insulating clothing dry for the morning. Sleeping with bare skin touching the inner surface of the VBL is unpleasant.

@earlofrednecks9533 4 года назад

Well that item just made my gear to get list. I really enjoy your videos thanks.

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

Awesome! Thank you!

@studydude 3 года назад

I subscribed, I too like nice gear, I once froze in the sawtooth wilderness in a cheap crappy bag, now I just run western mountaineering, me and significant other.

@ALinsdau 3 года назад

Good upgrade. The sawtooths can be pretty chilly.

@nepalesenomad1195 5 лет назад

good stuff, thanks for sharing,

@ALinsdau 5 лет назад

You're welcome. I liked your videos and subscribed!

@JaredBorstmayer 4 года назад

Love your videos! Very informative. Im curious what do you wear when using this? Would it not be damp in the morning along with yourself? Im just picturing getting out of the bag at -40 with damp clothes/skin.

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

I use wool long underwear and shirts in the Hotsac. I’ve only had to use it in Antarctica when it was so cold I was chilled even in my Bison bag. The wool recovers really well. You’re not really damp as just “humidified” if you will.

@dritt-drittpaniagua739 Год назад

Fantastic videos thank you. I'm perspiring just watching you make this video. Brand new subscriber your videos are just great. If I can't trust you who can I trust LOL.

@ALinsdau Год назад

Awesome, thank you!

@rollingthunder4599 4 года назад

You sold me. Keep a towel in side with you, it might absorb the moisture.

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

That's an interesting idea. I could use my microfiber towel, though I rarely bring it camping any more.

@unerbittlich 4 года назад

wool underware shuld work as well and lets your towel stay home. or dry/ simon

@carlbernsen1290 4 года назад

I wouldn’t want a damp wool base layer in sub zero conditions.

@jonnytacoma 3 года назад

In 2 videos from you I've learned more about heat and sleeping bags,emergency bivys or the WM hotsack than everything combined in my utube life! Thank you so much. You are awesome and I'd love to attend a motivational event in post covid 19. I don't believe a hotsack is in my future but I wanted to ask you a quick question. I've decided on purchasing a WM Terra light bag. Side sleeper here and I can't take another night in my marmot pinnacle mummy bag as its just not working out anymore! The Terra light is much more roomier and rated at 25 degrees I've heard WM is pretty much spot on. Not a cold sleeper. I want to be able to sleep comfortably down 10 degrees if possible. Do u think I can obtain this by wearing my outdoor research down jacket(hoody), down booties and down pants? Jacket and booties are both 800 fil. Also pondering a 40 or 50 rectangle sleeping bag or even a sleeping bag liner which might lower it 5 degrees? Plenty of room in bag as I'm 5'11 and 165 lbs. The terralight is 65/68/42 in width dimensions. To clarify im only asking your opinion and no definitive answer! Thank you so much for the education on WM bag's. I will buy my bag through your Amazon link. Jonny

@ALinsdau 3 года назад

You might be chilly in a Terra light (25ºF rated) at 10ºF. I've used my bags up to 25º F below their rating. It was a cool, chilly night but I was still able to sleep. I'd recommend getting a bag with 15-20ºF lower rating than your lowest expected temp. That way if the temps drop unexpectedly (it's happened to me many times), you'll still be comfortable. I took my Antelope expecting the temp to be 0º but it dropped to -25ºF over night - it wasn't very enjoyable. I should've brought my Puma instead. Definitely go with mummy - rectangle is great only for summer or specialized applications IMO.

@markcummings6856 3 года назад

Very nice review. Thanks.

@ALinsdau 3 года назад

Thanks for watching!

@Native_love Год назад

Thank you!

@WanderABit 4 года назад

Hmm, at first thought it looked like any other emergency sack (Rab Emergency Ark for example), but when you started moving around I think this one is a bit more solid, while others (lighter though) are pretty much thin foil easy to damage. Pity it does not pack well.

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

This sack is pretty tough - it's made of ripstop on the outside and the mylar is on the inside. Way better than just a space blanket.

@adamp185 2 года назад

Hello Aaron. After viewing this vid I have feeling that you somehow missed the point. VBL is not for adding warmth to your sleeping bag, and if it does, it is its marginal function. The core idea behind VBL is to get your down (or not down) sleeping bag in good shape when used in extended stay. What I missed in this video is how to cope with the main problem with VBL, the moisture buildup inside the sack. Are there any tricks to make this thing usable, are there any particular underwear materials that work well with the sack, what are the temperature ranges that this should be used for, when it gets dangerous (overcondensation). What are your thoughts after using it, is it good just for Arctic conditions? etc. I have feeling, that if VBL is not used properly it may create seriously risky situation in the middle of the night when used by inexperienced person. Btw, thank you for great content you publish on YT. Really appreciate!

@ALinsdau 2 года назад

VBLs are hard to live with. They do keep down dry and they keep warmth in. But they're never really comfortable. IMHO

@hikeroutpost 4 года назад

Hi Aaron, I'm thinking about this too but mostly for preventing ice buildup in my sleeping bag when it's very cold. I heard ice buildup is a real issue so I wonder if your Bison bag was experiencing such issues (condensation freezing in the bag and building up over days) in Antarctica when you weren't using HotSac VBL?

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

No ice up problems. Antarctica is super dry so the little frost disappeared pretty quickly. I dried my sleeping bag out every morning after I figured out how to do it.

@tysonkampbjj 2 года назад

@@ALinsdau "I dried my sleeping bag out every morning after I figured out how to do it.", is there a video, or this is a "buy the book" moment?

@martinclennon4640 Год назад

@@tysonkampbjj link to a video detailing his tips on drying out his sleeping bag: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QywJjsvVzUI.html

@michaelfrymus 8 месяцев назад

I can use this as an emergency bivy?! I was looking for an emergecy bivy, but they are all so delicate. But this would be a nice double use item

@ALinsdau 8 месяцев назад

It's a great emergency bivy though a bit delicate unless life or death.

@michaelfrymus 8 месяцев назад

@@ALinsdau this is pricier than an "emergency bivy". So, I'm wondering what the difference would be. Seems like it's just the hood. But, do you know if the durability of this is better? When you say it's delicate, is it very? Perhaps another brand?

@elisebrown5157 5 месяцев назад

Also interested in a comparison between this and the SOL emergency bivvy at half the price. Specifically for milder temp survival situations.

@st1ffee 2 года назад

they should add a seperate sleeve so you can also use it as a cushion

@ALinsdau 2 года назад

That'd be nice.

@nicholasromans5816 20 дней назад

What would you advise to wear in the sac in winter time

@andyr4611 Год назад

Thanks for that review, I think I need something like this. I often go backpacking summer into Sept in Scandinavia when night time temperatures become very random, usually +5c to -2c but occassionally winter comes early and a clear night is -10c. Do you ever use a hot water bottle in your bag to keep warm?

@ALinsdau 10 месяцев назад

Yes @ the hot water bottle. All the time.

@MiguelRuiz-kp3dd 5 лет назад

So, what's the difference between this and the SOL emergency bivvy?

@ALinsdau 5 лет назад

This one is shaped for a sleeping bag rather than being rectangular like the SOL.

@deankrakelphoto 4 года назад

Enjoyed this video. What about the moisture? My experience with most bivy sacks is that condensation is a big issue. As a vapor barrier this doesn't look like it offers any breathability at all. Just how damp does this get and how much of an issue is that? Thank you.

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

The whole idea is that the VBL doesn't breath at all. It prevents vapor transmission giving you the "ultimate" in warmth at a cost. It's not comfortable but effective. The experience is like being on coastal Oregon - cool to crazy warm and clammy. I don't get damp at all, just steamed up.

@deankrakelphoto 4 года назад

@@ALinsdau Thank you

@sleepingbags 2 года назад

If you sleep in a down jacket, you don't have to worry about moisture, right?

@Daniel-ls9ke 4 года назад

this item seems like it would be a liability. I would rather double up sleeping bags then wake up soaking wet from sweat. Its a rad idea would be sweet if it was semi breathable but ill probably get one to carry as an emergency

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

That's the big problem with VBLs. They give you warmth but you get steamy. I use it as my last resort backup.

@indycharlie 3 года назад

Hmm.... Thanks for the review .. bg

@ALinsdau 3 года назад

Thanks for watching.

@taktaktak41 Год назад

Hello! I really enjoy your reviews. Could you please explain how to get out of a liner like this and into daytime clothes when everything(sleeping clothes + body) is wet and there is -20 celsius outside the sleeping bag? How to prevent frostbite or hypothermia?

@ALinsdau Год назад

It's best to just wiggle out of it, take the 2 minutes of cold, and change quickly in the tent air. I've tried changing inside of a bag and it's just too much struggle.

@taktaktak41 Год назад

@@ALinsdau Thank you!

@sleepingbags 2 года назад

Sweat will be absorbed by the base layer, is there any chance of condensation inside the VBL?

@TC-yx1qt 4 года назад

Would you rather use this in your sleep system and get clammy or just add another 5/6 oz of down into your bag? What's warmer or better?

@ALinsdau 4 года назад

I keep the VBL as a final backup. I sleep quite warm so I can get away with a lower rated bag. Plus the VBL acts as a disaster shelter in case everything goes sideways.

@fritzd2116 3 года назад

Hi Aaron, I have the WM VBL, but I had some mice chew a couple of quarter sized holes in it last summer. Do you think I could use Tenacious Tape to patch it,perhaps?

@ALinsdau 3 года назад

Bummer!! Yes, Tenacious Tape will work for that. Tenacious Tape on Amazon: amzn.to/3aFhFZj If you're really worried, sew on the tape or sew on a thin nylon patch.

@JustinBaker2567 2 года назад

Do you find this necessary for short trips? Or is it more for longer trips? I'm also wondering if this is necessary for trips in forest environments where you might be building a campfire every evening, where you could wrap the bag around you like a blanket and dry it out a little bit.

@ALinsdau 2 года назад

I use it for longer trips or where I'm going somewhere below 0ºF / -18ºC.

@mikekraut7643 Год назад

If you’re sweating while you sleep, isn’t that a sign you have more than enough insulation and should ventilate your outer layer? VBL or not, the goal of thermal regulation in the winter is to be warm but not so warm that you sweat a lot or hopefully at all.

@andyr4611 Год назад

That's what puzzles me, why would you sweat when you'r cold? It's not happened to me before.

@mikekraut7643 Год назад

@@andyr4611 it’s a balancing act. Not too warm so you sweat, but not too cold that your uncomfortable

@brenttesterman1198 3 года назад

So basically you could use that bag on the Darkside of the Moon!

@ALinsdau 3 года назад

Lol, in theory, yes.

@victorl.mercado5838 3 года назад

Aaron, thanks for the review. I'm just about sold on the WM HotSac VBL, but I have a few concerns. Someone in a forum suggested that the HotSac is less effective in the Eastern US because it' usually damp (on the Applachian Trail). Another person pointed out that the mylar reflective properties is compromised if it's not in direct contact with the skin (in an earlier comment on this youtube video). Since I'll be sujected to both issues, will the HotSac work for me? I'm hoping to hike the AT between April and October of 2022. My sleep system consists of a Katabatic 30 degree Flex Quilt, Thermarest Neoair Xterm (R = 6.9) and merino wool clothing. Thoughts?

@flightographist 3 года назад

If you haven't figured it out yet, the hot sac concept is essentially a sauna, it doesn't matter how humid it is outside the bag, the delta t is what you are protecting yourself from. With merino, this bivy, and a 30 quilt, I reckon you will be cooking in anything above zero.

@victorl.mercado5838 3 года назад

@@flightographist after further research, i returned the HotSac. Your reference to a sauna might be adequate in that it will get hot and sweaty, but the condensation inside the HotSac will be uncomfortable, at best, and potentially dangerous as it starts to cool (kinda like a mylar based emergency blanket).

@flightographist 3 года назад

@@victorl.mercado5838 Exactly, IMHO, they are for recovery use, say after immersion or in a sudden storm.

@victorl.mercado5838 2 года назад

@@flightographist yup....but I plan to push the SOS button on my Garmin Inreach Mini and get airlifted to the nearest 5-star hotel instead. ;)

@ALinsdau 2 года назад

I avoid the Hotsac unless things are really bad.

@christophergrenville-cleave Год назад

This is a very poor review of this product as you don't seem to have grasped what a Vapour Barrier Liner (VBL) is for. I have one of these and it is a good product but whilst it will add a little extra warmth (certainly not the ten degrees you state though unless you were using deg F and not deg C), this is not the main reason for using one. And to those asking "Is it breathable?", no of course it's not. That's why its a VBL. It's designed for use inside your sleeping bag in very cold weather to stop any sweat from your body entering into the sleeping bag to stop the bag getting damp and losing its insulating loft which can be a major problem with down fill bags that are being used night after night and especially when there is no chance of the bag being able to dry out.

@ALinsdau Год назад

Thanks for the pointers and watching!