This guy here is by far my favorite engine builder. Real, down to earth and stands by his products and the equipment he uses. He's got the best attitude and most insane engines. Keep it up Steve.
Right he doesn't try to sluff it off on the owner right off the bat he finds the cause of the problems and fixes it right. Better than any other engine builder out there.
He and Cleetus also have the right attitude about things breaking. Even if it is the fault of the builder of the part, they acknowledge that stuff is GOING to break when you're doing the kind of racing they do that pushes the limits. It's just a part of the game that you have to deal with. And in Steve's case, when it is his fault, he owns up to it and makes it right. Speaks to his character and why he has a good reputation in the community.
I was thinking the same or materials left in the fuel lines after being made and not completely cleaned out. But I’m far from being any kind of expert and that’s why Steve is the best and will come up with the conclusion.
If i remember correctly, one of the turbos was having oil feeding issues, maybe the turbo got a bit torn up and sent little pieces through the return line, which is why there is no metal to be found in the engine itself
This is my guess as well or I don't know oil flow direction or remember if the oil lines and cooler were changed when the other oil pump let ot maybe some residual trash caught in the lines
Steve, much respect for the live teardown on Mullet's engine! There isn't many people, let alone very competent people like you that are willing to show being puzzled on camera. That could have been easily edited out, yet it was left in and I have respect for that sir. I am wondering if the oil pump is having an issue again or possibly the camshaft. If I remember right, he said he dropped some oil pressure right, which prompted the whole inspection to begin with?
Has cleetus finally grown up? Heavens forbid lol. Oil pump wear ? or a crap oil pressure sending unit. Motor looks too perfect to be anything serious. Over abundance of caution rules the day.
@@jaredweingartner3871 It is likely the pump if anything. It could be leftover trash in a line or from making all the new lines and not flushing them, but I doubt they skip that step. It seems to be making material so out of all my options, pump makes the most sense to me.
I love how the diagnosis is practically real-time. We get to see it as you see it. Also, takes a lot of confidence and knowledge to let us see you work through it in your head without an edit where you come back with the perfect answer.
I am not 100 percent sure of the oil flow on these motors , but first thought is inspect the oil pump.This is interesting , and am looking forward to Steve's final analysis. Many thanks for the video.
The word you're searching for on the soft bearing "swipe" is burnishing. We saw our buddy Dewey make his cameo which is always a well appreciated breath of fresh air. Such a good doggo! Cheers!
The amount of knowledge Steve puts out there through all of his break downs and explanations is amazing. So cool to see a master of the craft sharing his knowledge for the love of the craft and sport. Rock on man.
You really are in for a treat if you ever meet him in person, He took time out of his day to explain an issue to me I was having couldn’t understand over the phone was told to come by the shop lol he literally schooled me and very humble guy
What i love most about Steve when you see that puzzled confused look you know something up. Watch sinch that motor blew all 8 rods that looks i have seen 5-6 times everytime there has been something found. I belive there will be something maybe oil pump if the lines have not been flushed id scope them to check them. Keep it up steve these video's are why i keep coming back.
I love when Detective Steve solves a mystery! Next video we will know what’s up with the Cleetus motor. Now if he can only figure out his own issues with that trans and converter. Stay on it Steve!,👍👍
We used to use ferrography to analyze used oil to try and figure out where the wear was coming from. You could really get a lot of good information with one simple test. It can tell the difference between babbitt material, aluminum, iron/steel wear and carbon sludge. It does require the ferrography equipment and a microscope but they can be put together relatively cheaply.
Glad to see the SMX not hurt, we did see he hurt a turbo. Could the debris come from the turbo? Doesn't the turbo drain directly back to the pan? Just an idea, love the honest videos
I think the turbos would go to the scavenge side of the oil pump. I'm betting they find something in the pump...either from the turbo or the pump itself. There was debris in the filter (IIRC) and it was leaking from the rear main seal. But they know the converter is having trouble handling the power and getting REAL hot...so that might have cooked the seal. They're really pushing this automatic trans with this much power.
As a turbo builder. Ball bearings/debris can fall into the pan after a bearing failure. BUT cleets turbos were just smoking. Turbos won't drop anything in that scenario.
Mullet blew up a bunch of motors over the course of its life, prior to the SMX. Remember just prior to the SMX was the "full hand grenade" of 80 psi boost controller malfunction! There is most likely residual "crap" in one of the following locations: oil cooler, turbo oil passage or an inside corner of the oil tank. Most of the lines were changed when Cleetus changed to the SMX but, there are probably some that stayed the same (turbo returns). In road racing when we loose a motor we change all of the above and clean the lines on a dry sump application. Ultrasonic cleaning works for the turbo bodies (after disassembly) and the oil tank, that is pretty straight forward, you can do that in-house with a decent ultrasonic cleaner. The oil coolers in most of our cars are inside the radiator (coolant to oil cooler) not air to oil, it is not a separate oil radiator. This is pretty much due to space limitations and a quicker oil temp warm up. There are a bunch of companies around who are set up to clean these type of small tube coolers, both integrated in one unit and 2 separate coolers. Always have a spare that is clean. One of the bummers of a dry sump system is that there is a TON of stuff to clean when a motor blows up, and you have to do it. Since you are seeing crap re-appear in the pressure stage of the pump and filter my guess is that there is a small colony of garbage in one of the turbo passages or turbo return lines. This dumps a little shiny stuff into the oil tank from time to time and that ruins the pressure stage of the pump and shows in the filter. Nothing ever makes it into the engine. Short story swift, clean the ENTIRE oil system in the car, including the lines, various housings and heat exchangers, then put the freshened motor back in. I am not a fan of in-line screen filters in the scavenge side oil lines as I have had my issues with them. Steve, I love your videos. You do a great job with your motors and offer fantastic customer service. It's great to see someone else who likes to turn money into velocity and noise!
You know Steve, Garret must have highest respect for you and your product. When every fiber of the man's body is screaming "stop thinking and just SEND IT" and he still backs away! I think we all know he has the coin for rebuilds and the stones to take it to 100%. But respect is what made him say no!
As a engine builder I believe you just put caution first, and didn't want anything to go wrong and cost either you or Garret $$$$ Safe and great call. SMX lives to race another day>
There is still a problem but it's not the engine causing the low oil pressure it's the converter pressure that's that issue and Cleetus is resolving that on his end
I don't think it's just the converter that's the problem. And it wasn't just because of over cautious. His oil pressure dropped to 9psi. That's EXTREMELY low. I think his oil pump was eating itself alive, causing debris and low oil pressure. Maybe the converter having too much pressure is what caused the oil pump to fail. What else could cause debri & low oil pressure? Debri alone wouldn't cause oil pressure to drop to 9psi.
time for you to add a lockup convertor to your automatic Steve. I am thinking cavitation / fluid shear at high rpm as you overpower the stator is causing the heat buildup within the convertor itself. Especially looking at your fluid changes. 900F fluid temps non localized would burn the fluid black as the ace of spades. Yet that is not happening. So all the heat to blue the Stainless is being generated within the convertor itself, and that localized fluid. a lockup clutch will solve that issue :)
Wouldn’t really be much of a battle if each makes a clean pass because their times in “drag racing times” are quite different. What should happen on paper is Tom will win, Steve will be 2nd, and Cleetus will come in 3rd.
Cleatus will never have his mechanical issues sorted, because he keeps messing with stuff that doesn’t need to be messed with, instead of working systematically to solve a problem. He’s too reactive, the only reason he’s competitive is because of an almost unlimited wallet. If he didn’t have the cash, he’d be last every time.
Steve you guys are awesome! Absolutely love your mannerisms and the way you carry yourself throughout these videos! 🙌🙌🙌 So many people could learn from your character the humbleness & joy to teach others and not belittle anyone!! Bravo sir
This turned into a great video! Im really hooked on seeing more of what could have been the issue! Im almost wondering if it was material from all the lines they made for it. I know its been in there for a little bit but what if some debris started to come out of his hoses?
Taking analytical approach (1)source of debris (2) loss of oil pressure. So with no signs of damage in engine other sources to consider = oil pump internals, oil lines, oil tank, TURBOS and their respective lines. Anyway typical great video showing all, including your perplexing looks, Thanks Steve!
Steve always shows integrity in his knowledge and ability to chase down any type of issue that can or does occur. It makes something good even better looking for the weak links for the future development of the high performance engines that he builds.
This is what i love most about Steve's workmanship. I have seen that same puzzled and confused look on his face I say 5-6 times since it blew all eight rods. What I love is the fact that he will not stop till he finds the source. Every time something has been found
Hopefully it’s good to go. I’d be checking and cleaning all the oil lines, fittings, and the tank itself. Maybe turn the engine 90 degrees at a time and recheck the thrust. I can’t see that making a difference though.
I could listen to you tell me about engines all day! I just really find it fascinating to learn about. I love learning more about engines than what I know already. Love your videos steve ❤🤘🏻😎
He shut it down for low oil pressure and metal in the filter. Hard to tell in the video how much movement there was in the crank at the track. Had like 9lbs oil pressure driving it back. What would be normal for that scenario? how concerned are you with the amount of metal in the oil filter they showed on the video? They also had a throttle position sensor issue on the last run as well. It’ll be interesting to see what you find with his motor and your trans converter.
Maybe the hoses were not cleaned totally from oil pump. Also a major point on your torque convertor. We're your hoses properly flushed, a restriction will cause heat to increase. Just questioning. Great videos, and I do learn a lot.
Thank you Steve for the lesson!!. Your the best bro!. I hope to get the chance to meet you and all the racers and hopefully get to race again one day soon hopefully!.
Once Cleeter and crew get Mullet dialed in, I'd love to see a Mullet vs. Wagon series of races. Not a grudge match, more like sibling rivalry. The idea being that the winner would get some goofy trophy, and y'all do a best 2/3 series once a year... either during the off season or make it part of a Race Week deal where the best slips at 3 tracks wins that year or something.
Your getting down to the minutia that being a good craftsmen requires... and most youtubers don't seem to fall in that category, esp attention hounds like Cleetus. I would not be surprised if that debris came from making or remaking an oil line that didn't get cleaned out well from the chop saw, or maybe debris left in the dry sump tank or system from the last blow up. IF the debris is actually from the inside of that motor, given the history of it (if I am thinking right) MAAAAYBE you have something that has been left in the blind side of the oil holes that feed the rods from the mains. Brake cleen thru a straw with the tip bent is the only way to flush that out and I have seen that on most any crank thats been turned or polished.... My .02.... Thanks for the vid, hope to see the results...
Maybe something in the pump itself self clearanced, sending it up to the filter or maybe even one of the lines from the pump had material in it from before and that's what you saw? Did Cleeter & co put new lines on or re-use? If they re-used, did they flush them? One of those little details that gets missed if you're thrashing. Only other oiling involved is the turbos and they were leaking IIRC? Something there?? But now I'm guessing as I'm outside my knowledge. :) I do like teardown videos like this though as I personally learn so much and it's great to understand how these motors work as it makes watching the content from guys like Cleetus that bit more interesting. Thanks for treating your viewers with this courtesy Steve, really appreciate it.
Steve is it possible that the material found in the filter, could be coming from the oil pump itself, like the pump have a bad bear or something causing it to eat itself?
I thought he made the decision to stop because it seemed to be low on oil pressure 🤔 I'll be very interested to see if Steve finds something when he tears it down properly
@@smh28v6 deduction. pre-pump is good, post-filter is good, bearings and clearances are good (or will be when measured), filter is dirty, it's gotta be case wear of the pump or there's leftover shrapnel being caught in the hoses from a previous failure.
Once again, super informative video. Thinking about pulling the pan on my race car just to see (my car is an 11sec street/strip machine... OK... high 11s.) Anyway, at some point, do you have to suspect the vacuum/oil pump? How do you setup the belts on those?
Man Steve, every time I watch your videos I feel like I just got an education for free! I can't thank you enough for doing this kind of service for humanity. We need more smart people in the worst way. If you keep putting them out, I'll keep watching and learning. Thank you! Also, could be the oil pump that is leaving metal in the filter. Maybe?
To pseudo-quote Mr Steve “a tiny thing on a 400hp engine is nothing. A tiny thing on a 4000hp engine will kill it”. I’m surprised it wasn’t 100% teardown immediately.
Cletus has a great group working with him. Zac, Tye,James, and George do good work. Plus you build the best! I noticed Cletus talking more about taking care of the SMX. It ain't cheap you know!! Haha!!
Steve would it be beneficial to use larger diameter trans fluid lines and larger fittings on the trans? Possibly with the lines and fittings you are currently using being smaller,could that cause the pressure to increase under load and cause the fluid to overheat? Just a thought.
Steve, absolutely love the videos, I was there at Great Lakes dragway, ur car looked absolutely beautiful! As far as I recall from standing in the pits with cleetus, Zach had said there was some material in the oil filter, the throttle body cable had snapped and after the 6.87 pass he was at the end of the strip for quite awhile. I heard cleetus and Zach talking about having 80psi of oil pressure in the burnout box, but by the end of the run it was 15-20psi. When they put the zip ties on the throttle body and got back up to the burnout box in the quick turnaround, it did not sound healthy, couldn’t make boost or do a easy burnout like mullet normally does. After his second attempt I was back in the pits, watching and it seemed like it could’ve been another rocker or rod, but Zach was showing something in the bottom oil pan to one of ur guys from ur team or anyone that came over to help. Anyway I hope this helps in some way, keep up ur videos!!
Steve, as for your convertor, have you ever checked the pressure delta through the cooler? I'm wondering if the cooler is flowing too fast to cool the fluid.
19:50. HEY STEVE IT'S THE ROLLER THRUST IN THE REAR AND TURN THE CRANK WHEN MESURING THRUST BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE SPOTS WHERE IT WONT AND SPOTS THAT WILL MOVE ALOT
Between the midsection of the pan and the filter are the only places left to look. Bet my dollar on that part of the loop. Screens/lines/pump/and however the turbskis are in the loop.
I'm novice but I'm still pretty confident the spring issue is related to oil in the air intake through the leaky turbo. That actually backfired THROUGH the turbo 3-4 times before the engine was taken out of Mullet. Maybe it backfired out of the valve that broke its spring...
Just looked at the video and what is major here is the low oil pressure. If theres nothing wrong with the engine, then it HAS to be the oil pump. Goes straight from the pump to filter right? And no material anywhere else. It makes the most sense. And Garrett stopping actually did save the engine, it would've blown up if the pump was going out.
Doing a few calculations, the block will grow by 0.6-0.8mm if it's warm when you check it (that's 15-25 thou). Steel would grow 0.3-0.4mm (7-12 thou). That could explain the extra thrust movement at the track?
My guess is the oil pump, but im not an engine builder, or even a certified mechanic, just a good ole boy that likes loud and fast things. God that motor is sweet to look at
I love the intro song. Reminded me to check back to PFI after finishing this video. Also you are a GOAT even more so for taking the time to explain stuff
I’ve done the same on my engine and most recently on isx Cummins :pull pan ck oil pump gear lash,reset cam/gear train just thinking it was loud .sometimes peace of mind is worth it.then you can sleep
Steve, you already know the issue... i appreciate you showing the bearings to clear you.. but hopefully the charge pressure will be addressed. And hopefully, we will see Mullett and the Wagon run side by side!!!
Love the critical think for thought has anyone ever thought about the oil and addtive they use and the filtration maybe cause a situation were the filter is filtering things that biuld up to look like contaminants i dont now thats just thought with the high level of filtration and products today and some might be on his part because such a big boy toy he doesn't want to brake it keep up great work and glad to see u make think a thing again.
When the screen got sucked out of the oil pan and through the oil pump and pumped material into the tank etc... awhile back, they had to replace the oil pump, the oil pan screen, and clean the tank etc.. I am betting the metal in the filter was still in the oil tank after it was cleaned out, or in the line from the pump to the tank, or from the tank to the pump.
An over abundance of caution from Cletus?!? He's blown enough stuff up over the years that he understands the massive inconvenience of being off the road/having to start again with a power-train (even with a great team behind you). Better to look after the setup you have, especially if it's special like this one. He may have more $$$ to spend on engines these days, but this ain't no junkyard LS or crate motor. Let Steve give it a going-over for the win.
If Cleetus didn’t replace the oil lines and heat exchangers after the oil pump shredded that pre-filter stainless screen, The material came from there.
The H series has a Babbit plate overlay without the Tin flash cosmetic plating, Tri-Metal bearing also with SteelBback, Bronze Cast Alloy, and Babbit Plate overlay.
