That's a feature, not a bug. Only 24 spells. Delver used to want 30 (~50% chance of blind flip). This build is 60% cards that don't flip Delver and fewer cantrips than usual. The more you dilute the instants & sorceries, the worse Delver of Secrets gets. Maybe Delver should be the cut?
@@st33pestasc3ntIt seems like for years Delver has been widely recognized as the worst card in Delver, if you're going into three colors I think it legitimately might not be needed anymore.
"There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us, you blinked." Batman to owlman Boshnroll to us
@33:50 - you're not wrong, DRC is so much better than delver. I've been wanting to see delver decks give up their attachment to the unreliable namesake of the deck (as evidenced by round 1 of this video lol). Before bowmaster I'd have said swap it for Mastermind, but now that x/1s are banned I think Ledger Shredder should be on the menu, probably with ~5-6 main deck forces to make up for the lack of speed against combo
Look at you and your "well thought out opinion". I was just going to comment "drc sucks because rest in peace leyline". It'd sure be a shame if this caused an argument and pushed the engagement onto trending.
@@dm9910 Sure, but it's not like Echo is a good fair card. 7 damage is fine, but not a game-winning combo, and a 7/7 is very answerable if you give your opponent 7 cards. Sounds like the midway between good synergy and full combo, which would be a bad combo.
What a legacy roller coaster this league was, great content as always. Bowmasters is a sick card, looking forward to seeing how it interacts with the format.
imagine me yelling at my screen; "BOLT AND TWO DEVLERS IS 9 THEYRE JUST DEAD AAAA" but then i realized that after all you couldn't know that delver can have 3 power in that deck
When delver of secrets was released, people used to play 30, 29, 28 cards that flipped it. This days now, people play 24, sometimes 23... And it's just not good enough.
"We've had nothing but maggoty decks for three stinking metas! Yeah, why can't we have some Grixis Delver?" (I fully plan to keep up the orc quotes for as long as possible for any deck with Orcish Bowmasters in it.)
"I think I'll draw from the ring first, that way if i draw brainstorm, i can set up my delver flip." This is wrong. If you draw with delver first, brainstorm WILL flip delver. If you draw from the ring first and it's brainstorm, you MIGHT be able to set up a flip. You also might brainstorm into 3 bricks.
34:00 i'm here, as requested, to fuel the engagement by mentioning how, by virtue of leyline of the void and rest in peace, drc is actually not as good as delver of secrets. You're welcome B
As much as I love Delver, even under the situation you laid out DRC still had utility. Can't underestimate how powerful filtering through dead draws can be. Which brings up this question in most games do you want another reliable beater or a way to dig for the right answer?
"23 instants/sorceries, so it's about 50/50 once your opening hand is out of the way." Not true at all. You're assuming there are no ins/sor in opening hand and that 23 of the remaining 53 are live delver flips. A random card is still 23/60, altered ONLY by cards you've seen. But in the dark, when not set up by cantrips or the double delver fetch land trick or surveil, we should expect about a 38% flip rate not 43%. (Of course, flipping 0% in this match was absurd, but you're still not allowed to "get the opening hand out of the way" and assume that all 23 flips are still in your deck)
second comment, against a deck like oops, I would trade off the bowmasters, not the token. You can potentially get delirium with it in the graveyard, and the token grows for every bowmasters you play
Next let’s see a BUG build with tarmogoyf and abrupt decay and bowmaster. No Leovold though. Counter productive. But can also play loam wasteland combo.
I played Grixis Delver-less at FNM last week and enjoyed it. I want to build a version somewhere between Delver and Control. Pile decks are my favorite, but I'm not not skilled enough to beat the clock.... ⏰😢
Replacing what? They aren't blue for Force, aren't non-creature for DRC, aren't instants/sorceries for Delver/Murktide. They really clash with the deck a lot. If anything you would want to replace the black cards that are making them good which kinda defeats the purpose of adding them. I guess you could swap 1 Delver? I don't think that makes the deck any better, it just makes it about the same at best but probably worse since you lose a blue card to stop turn 1 wins. Lightning Bolt isn't blue but they are way too powerful and versatile to swap any of them out. There might be a way to squeeze one in but I'm not sure it would actually make the deck better in most games.
@thekilla1234 I would probably replace a Night's Whispers in the main, as 25 to 26 instants and sorceries doesn't change the math much for Delver, and it isn't taking up a blue slot. I don't even think Whispers got played this league. I wouldn't replace Call, as that can be looting to hand sculpt and to assist with playing Murktide. Then maybe add one to the side, possibly in the place of Counterbalance, which in the entire league countered 1 Brainstorm, and that's it. I don't like it as a singleton, and definitely not without more top deck manipulation.
@@wraith.ferron Those points all sound reasonable. I only just noticed that you didn't mention Night's Whisper in your original comment and assumed you were talking about all life loss cards. I'm still not sure about it personally but what you said sounds like a change that could work.
@@thekilla1234 it would need testing, but I think having an extra threat like that would help for games that go long. I mentioned it, but I'm not 100% sold without some numbers to back it.
In G2 do we want to go big brain and Bauble on their turn to maximize flips? Target us and then stack the draw or is it just "we play force" good enough to main phase it?
In round 2 you choose to draw first stating if you draw brainstorm you can set up the delver flip but if brainstorm is on top to draw it flips off the brainstorm anyway. Sick that you called it but just saying the logic is flawed.
@@BoshNRoll @22:15 Possibly you were on tilt because just prior to that you said you didn't know what your card did about drawing at upkeep instead of EtB.
I had to think real hard about this one - Bosh is right, he just didn't describe it very clearly. Yes, it's true a Brainstorm in position one (probably) flips the Delver regardless of whether you choose to draw or reveal first, but a Brainstorm in position two only flips it if you draw first, so it's still better to draw first and reveal second.
These builds have too many competing interests. Delirium for DRC, instants/sorceries for Delver/Murktide. A delver deck with less than 27 spells to flip delver should have to have a real reason to do so and this... doesn't.
Genuine question, when you're trying to flip your delvers, why not crack your fetchlands on the opponents end step to reduce the land count in the deck? Is there any benefit to holding them through your turn?
If you have a fetchland to crack it’s (usually) better to save it for the delver trigger. If you have two delvers, like in match 1, you can fetch away the top card if the first delver doesn’t flip. Even if you only have one delver, the option of shuffling away a land (or some otherwise dead card) will usually be better than thinning your deck for the delver hit.
It’s twofold. In a deck like this you have to use all your resources tightly. Shuffling your deck is a resource. Seeing a card off Delver and deciding if you want it or not is much higher impact than whatever tiny % you get to flip delver with one fewer land in your deck. Also the whole deck is built around the interaction between Brainstorm/Ponder and fetch lands. Cracking lands for thinning % is almost always worse than the supercharge you get by shuffling to control a perfect cantrip.
Not bosh, but I'd be interested to see how it does, too. Is 4 mana too much without vintage ramp? If it does take off, what answers are going to come in to try to deal with it?
When you played the show and tell deck, you got ass kicked by delver bow-master deck. Now you play delver bow-master, ass kicked by show ant tell. Just variance?
Wow, what a surprise. The best deck is once again the Brainstorm, Daze and Wasteland deck. What was the point of getting rid of Expressive Iteration, Ragavan, DHA and DRS again?
the deck floundered a lot, in mus where it shouldve easily won. show is usually a bye for delver lmao. also, delver isnt even the best deck right now (that would be 8-cast).
