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The Whole sign house system was used by early astrologers because determining the exact time of birth 2000 years ago was problematic, if not impossible. So all house cusps were rounded down to zero degrees and a generic horoscope was created, the same way a Sun sign horoscope is calculated for a newspaper or magazine. The problem with the Whole sign house system is the shifting of planets around in space to accommodate always rounding house cusps down to zero degrees. For example, in the Whole sign house system, a planet rising above the eastern horizon can be interpreted as being located in the 1st house, when it should be considered in the 12th. The characteristics and significance of a 12th house planet versus a 1st house planet are vastly different. Whole sign is a regressive house system based on a rounding error.
I will never tire of listening to Rick. Side note: Rick, if you share sometime, how you maintain your sharp and youthful mind I know I won’t be the only one to appreciate it immensely 🙏 You’re the bomb✌️💜
He uses his mind all the time. He has many interests. His life work is using his mind. One reason I listen, to keep my mind wondering and active also. Certainly not like Rick's mind. He is extremely intelligent and has been doing this a long time. Soooo much to learn, and unlearn some things in my case, lol Have a wonderful day, all said with only kind intent.
Agreed. This is clear 💜 We often have our secret sauce(s) or regimen so to speak, to support our greatest gifts, achievements, talents or values... physically, mentally, spiritually. I imagine a never ending assortment of curated freshly cut flowers contribute in their Venetian/MercurIan way 😁✌️💜
@@bettinabrandt2581 I think you could be right. I believe Rick once said that lilies are one of the only flowers that have the symmetry of 6 petals. Most flowers have 5 or an odd number of petals. PS it might have been an autocorrect but Venetian is of Venice style like the famous drama or theatre inspired masks. Venutian is related to Venus. I love learning from Gemini Rising astrologers such as Rick and Gemini Brett, possibly as I have a Gemini 3 degree Ascendant. My sun is conjunct my rising at 5 degrees and 35 arc minutes of Gemini.
Very interesting. I looked at whole sign and placidus. Have felt my Saturn in the 11th fits more than in the 12th with whole sign houses however this years solar return about to be ending totally felt like a 6th house perfection - have to be open to a variety.
Interesting. You are the first I have seen commenting about whole signs, and Saturn in the 12th or 11th house. Whole signs and Placidus Saturn in the 12th house. Koch places Saturn in the 11th house. It seems interpretation would alter. Glad to see you asking about that also.
I like the hybrid approach. I am finding looking at both a quadrant system and the whole sign houses system to be the missing puzzle pieces for my natal chart. I have used Placidus for so long, and I recently discovered the Whole Sign Houses system. I like looking at both for my natal chart, because I have an Interception in my 1st/7th house and a stellium in Sagittarius (sun, uranus, mercury, Venus, neptune) and four of them in my 11th house in the Placidus system. In the whole sign system, I don't have an interception and my stellium of 5 planets is now all in my 12th house of Sagittarius. All of my signs have shifted to different houses too along with planets and points shifting to different houses. I don't want to ditch one house system for another. I think because my natal chart changed so much between systems, both should be looked at. I see how my MC in Scorpio appears in my 11th house with the whole sign system and i read that the MC takes on those themes and characteristics of the house. I think it adds more to the story to interpret. My chiron placement shifted houses and so did my Saturn, jupiter moon placements. I think both house system results are accurate for me, so I will look at both.
There are many astrologers, myself among them, who ignore interceptions. They do not reveal anything useful in any kind of consistent way. Cusps are not angles. Astrology often loses its way. Like with Whole Sign Houses. An ancient system for when there were no clocks. Currently, there are clocks and angularity has established itself far more than signs.
If this goes any distance whatsoever to stopping fighting at future astrological conferences & meetings over the 'rightness' of house systems, it's been worth it!
Lordy! I need a vacation after listening to this! But boy , this helpful because after knowing my chart using the Placidus system for over 30 years , now so many people are using whole sign houses and it’s challenging because it makes me chart very different. Especially with my Sun intercepted in the 4th , , my 10th , 1st and 7th house are all different, the planetary placements are different. It’s like I have a whole other chart .
this is a good conversation, the only critique I would have is not mentioning that whole sign houses, and equal houses, always show the highest point in the sky by the position of the 10th house, whereas quadrant based systems show the culmination point or MC. these can be different astronomically and always worth taking into consideration. Everything starts with the astronomy when it comes to astrology in my opinion and this point is often very overlooked. The MC is not always the highest point on the ecliptic by declination, and vise versa the highest point by declination is not always culminating. Interesting to note to how these points always line up when the equinox points are rising and setting, 0 degrees Aries & Libra.
Very interesting. 🙏🌟🙏❤🙏🌟🙏 I started using whole sign because I thought it would be more accurate and it was from an ancient system. However, I was finding that things didn't match up. My chart looked great in whole sign. I like it, but, it's not true to my transits in houses etc. For a year and a half I've used whole sign. I've only been interested in astrology for a year and a half. Well, since this debate with Chris Brennan and Deborah Houlding I thought I would challenge and investigate the other house system in question, that being Porphyry. I found it to be much more accurate in that that was more true to my own self, my own personality etc. The whole sign system, I was always questioning, always confused but looking at Porphyry, the placements, all of them, the houses, the planets all click with my personality. I noticed there wasn't much difference really from Porphyry and Placidus. I haven't looked at Koch etc. I'm absolutely not looking for a chart that looks good. I'm looking for a chart that's true to me. First and foremost. But Rick is correct! The temptation is to look for a chart that you'd like to be rather that a chart that's your actual be-ing!! I'll still be checking out other house systems now that I've heard about this debate. If nothing else, it's taught me that my search for becoming myself, my true self is almost complete. I know what I am. I'm not whole sign. But that's not to say that whole sign might be good for election or horary astrology and the same goes for other house systems with other types of astrology. I think it might be good to explore this, all of us together. Astrologers and students, or those just seeking a true interpretation of their own birth chart. Write in the comments of the astrologers you follow what you find is true for you. Embrace what people find whether in transits or natal and find over all what works for you rather than staying rigid and dogmatic. Different strokes for different folks. What works for one person's chart may not work for another. Astrology is very complex so it's fair to have an open mind? In my opinion yes! Let's just come together and play with the systems rather than fight over them! 🙏🌟🙏❤️🙏🌟🙏
I learned astrology in the 80s when everyone used Placidus & Koch. I started reading with Porphyry in the 90s bc of a wonderful teacher I had. In 2020 I switched to whole sign and I feel like my readings have drastically taken off to a whole knew level of insight and accuracy. Like Rick, I believe many house systems work. When an astrologer decides which house system they are going to use and studies and devotes themselves to that practice the oracle will meet them there. It’s like if you speak French or German - you can communicate to the divine in more than one language .
When the news and the country…the world feels crazier than yesterday, I turn to Astrology Hub and Rick, his teachings and voice to soothe me. Blessings and many thanks 🙏🏻
I must say I 2nd that feeling.. it’s like having Rick Levine at my house.. due to being a Nigel no mates.. to find out this reason at this time, in my chart🤔No idea how to work that out. Just know I’ve never been alone like this in my life.. This Pisces ♓️ is way out of water 💦😧
Agree with Rick. Intermediate house cusps are a hazy, hazy thing and should not be overinterpreted. The tradition considered the houses as useful for planetary strength and whats known as accidental dignity, planets near angles. The rest is useful but the sign on cusps debate is much ado about nothing. House systems beyond Porphyry or Alcabitius (the earliest quadrant house systems that are actually the most balanced at higher latitudes between 50-66) are just different snapshots and pictures. More poetic and ideas to consider than science or a reliable system. All quadrant houses though are more reliable than whole sign houses which were used when there were no clocks and the revival of that system is just led by nostalgic astrologers who are like fundamental literalist Christians...
It was so hard to get used to my chart in whole sign initially, but it has really made me understand myself and get to know myself in a much deeper more profound way.
Rick you are a rock star teacher and, Amanda - you are a master of taking the notes! The two of you are such a win-win couple for us in the classroom!!❣🤗
My main difference in my birth chart with whole sign vs placidus is my Mars and Moon placement. In whole sign they’re both in Aries 1st house. In placidus they’re in Aries 12th house. (Which has another meaning)
Thanks again Amanda and Merlin. I learned calculating charts by hand. No computer back then. I really enjoyed it and think it's a good way to learn and understand. I love my Solar Fire too!
"Intercepted signs don't mean shit" xD except when you have a planet in it? Aquarius is intercepted for me, but my Mars is in it, and I am a Scorpio Asc. Koch is pronounced KoHH
Hi there! The house systems have been a question for me for so long, so this is what I use. I use the quadrant midpoints, they have proven to be powerful release points and triggers for progressions and transits. So I calculate them first, and then use the midpoints between them and the angles as the regular 12 house cusps. Thoughts?
I had my natal chart processed through Placidus and was thinking about running it thru Whole house. Now I will to look at the differences between the two. Thanks for all the information! Always happy to hear you both on the show!😁😁😁
Oh yes please...i havent watched the pod cast yet but i have been stuck on this one for many many years...i have a 4 planet stellium in scorpio with cancer rising..i live in new zealand and so i feel i have to go with whole sign house system.... I am going to get comfortable and absorb all your wonderful knowledge Thank you Rick and Amanda
I have Aquarius 0 degrees rising using the whole sign system! And Mercury 1degree retrograde in Leo! My Leo Sun 2degrees 😳 I have always used whole signs houses. If I change houses it changes my planet placements. Born July 25 7:35pm. I have had many thoughts on this.
ROFL.. having first had my chart done before all this great technology, I accepted the breakdown by that astrologer NOT knowing there were others. With the new technology and LOTS of online astrologers on RU-vid, etc.. I came to learn about whole sign. I LOVE that my stellium of 5 planets in Libra puts them ALL in the 12 house, rather then two of them being in the 11th house by exact degrees. So I like that tongue and cheek: I like my chart better! that is absolutely true for me
Wow!!! Immense gratitude to both Amanda and Rick for your your amazing dedication, patience and generosity in sharing and clarifying this complex subject with us! I LOVE how you both just seem to naturally remain open to not-knowingness and continuing to explore. It makes you phenomenal teachers. Xoxoxox
Honestly, if you can't appreciate the whole sign house system, why are you studying astrology? The concept was made by the same people who created that house system you despise. I really admire projects that try to rediscover old techniques because I love to learn from the source first, and then expand it afterwards. This isn't about the speakers btw, but some modern astrologers.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this conversation! I learned with Placidus, but so many teachers use Whole Signs that I’ve been very confused. If Rick says it, that’s good enough for me! Thank you!!
Amanda , this was awesome , one of the best shows ! I listened to it twice ! Great description of the different methods/ systems !! I’ve been studying astrology since 5 min after I walked out of my first astrology reading in 1987 , where I went straight to the book store and bought all the necessary books I needed to make charts because I was blown away ! (Thank god computer software soon helped the process of constructing charts .) Fast forward to the past decade with so much more information available with technology I’ve studied several different systems , which have all led me down rabbit holes of history, spirituality science etc 🙏💕I feel like each system ultimately comes with techniques that work in its favor with great accuracy. I loved how Rick explained what made them each unique ! Although placidus was programmed in my head for the longest I’m still open and use to other systems : ) I am not an astrologer by profession but i love it and I literally always feel like there so much more to learn , like Rick said ! ✨💫 Love you both !! Great host & great teacher !!😊🙏
I decided on the Koch system. It seemed to fit better. My four planet stellium in Libra is in the 7th house with Koch or the 8th house with whole sign. Placidus has my moon in the 1st, Koch has it in the 2nd and whole sign has it in the 3rd. To understand why the differences I found the degrees for house cusps for Placidus and Koch. Whole sign was easy because it starts with 0 degrees. Like Rick said, pick one and learn then expand. I have lots to learn because until recently my exposure to astrology was my sun sign and Chinese astrological sign. It does get very confusing when you are just starting and things are listed in different houses and you just learning about house. Thanks for talking about this subject. I watched the video of Rick explaining the glyphs for the signs and planets. It stayed with me so when I got to that part of memorizing them Rick’s words come to mind. Thanks for that video too.
This was the best explanation of the difference between quadrant house divisions based on time v space I have ever heard. Thank you ! Now I understand why Robert Hand switched to Koch from Placidus many moons ago, and why, per an interview with C Brennan he stated that he still uses it for transits because of its accuracy. The fact that quadrant house division falls apart at the poles was what pushed me into using Whole Sign houses, that and the ridiculous hard line of only a few degrees into a sign before it shifted to the next sign determined the Lord for the entire house, with the sub lord coming second and the possibly of having a third (house with two interceptions) .This never made any sense to me. Just pick one, right? Rick sees charts working despite system of house division as the Magic - I see it as the Mystery, and most certainly, an affirmation that astrology is as much divination as technique. But we are NOWHERE without technique. GREAT episode.
Ok here is a question, my mother said my birth time was 12;20 which is a couple of minutes earlier than my birth chart which changes my ascendent. My question is your time based on your first breath, cutting f the umbilical cord, or the moment the nurse looks at the ⏰. Which I realize may not have an answer, but may have been thought about by some.
It depends on the midwife. Who knows when she took a look at the clock? Some people find out later in life they relate more to an early Pisces moon than to a late Aqua moon. So either we have someone make a rectification for us, or we tweak the birth time according to our real time experiences.
I was taught on Astrology Hub’s Decode Your Cosmic Blueprint course in Whole Sign. I like my placements there better than Placidus. 🙃 Placidus also hurts my brain with intercepted houses and 2 signs in one house and the energies. Open to learning other house systems, though.
No wonder no one calls my chart right. I’m one degree Gemini Rising, Taurus sun Cap moon. Right Amanda. Can of worms. Totally confused. I’ve had 2 astrologers refuse to read my chart because it’s “too difficult.” Geez! My claim, I’m a bull-headed twin. 😆
Rick has a very easy and quick way of losing my attention,, Sorry. something like a mechanic does at the garage...Same english lanuage, different lingo.if one doesn't know what a compression equipment is then one doesn't know what is being worked on.. hagd
