What Cryogenic Treatment is & Why You Need It! 

It really seems to be though

What is WPC?

@@shhhdontshout think of shot peen but way way more precise and doesn’t take away material. I had it done to my crank and it wants to spin for days. I think they use a ceramic bead that’s all the same size if I remember the video correctly. He’s explained it in a video.

​@@402SHO crankshaft of what engine? And how much does it cost?

Can you do both of those *then* add a DLC Coating? Does a loe friction coating like DLC interfere with the “oil holding” aspect of WPC’s Dimples?

We have our own airforce.

Man I cryoed one of my AR barrels and that sucker now shoots 0.25" groups with 0.22" bullets at 100 yards!

One thing is swain coating on pistons won't stick to a wpc treated piston, found out the hard way.

@@motoiq With so many procedures to do to parts, what would be the natural order of treatments. I had my valve train including the camshafts isotopically micro polished next I want to treat them with cyrogenics and lastly a protective coating for first fire up.

@@stevehammel2939 I think if you go to wpc's website you'll find that they recommend coating then WPC, and since WPC comes after cryo, you could perhaps do coat-cryo-WPC since cryo works on the whole piece including the surface.

​@@stevehammel2939 depending on the type of coat, I wouldnt expect any to be compatible with cryo -- there are embrittling and differential stresses induced when you have two dissimilar materials as the guy mentioned here. the coating very likely has a CTE mismatch and may become so brittle it cracks as it cant move with the material underneath it.

That's sort of hard because a Motorsports grade engine can depend a lot on the rules and what is allowed. A tuner engine that is properly built uses the same quality machining, etc, at least ours do. A typical tuner shop can build trash. Good tuner shops do things like we do,

Thank you still tired.

We already have. Look around

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7F_PnPnQBMs.html

Our place, CTP, has the experience to cryo sleeved aluminum blocks no problem. We had issues with other places with cracking and used to never cryo alloy blocks due to the sleeves cracking but CTP never has problems.

ctpcryogenics.com/

It will for sure probably doubling the life, but it will still break. It can't fix a bad design.

A friend of mine cryo treated the gearset from his Pulsar GTi-R, it lasted a lot longer but still broke. They’re about as weak as a GC8 box for reference.

Can't turn a Donkey into a stallion.. First rule in any after treatments. A good part given the application can be stellar. Cant throw logic out the window.

It doesnt affect Nitriding and for welds, it stress relives it.

Yes very much so, many of the top rotary guys do this and WPC

If done correctly with slow cooling and gradual warming it will not.

Maybe, I would think they would used seasoned blocks which have less shift in them after machining.

Do you have sources? I have heard countless times that Bmw engineers used seasoned blocks as the metal was normalized.

cryo and WPC.

Usually not.

Yes, not sure how well it works though.

Me 1st, & wake me up in 500 years like Buck Rogers! I hope to meet a Colonel Wilma Dearing played by Lindsy Wagner back in those simpler times of the 80's & when women were women!

Connecting rods.

its actually tempering, not full solution heat treatment.

@@motoiq I know I founded Cryo Science in San Diego California🙂

I know you then! You used to do all of my cryo back in the day.

@@motoiq where are you located?

Gardena CA, you cryoed a lot of my stuff in the 90's till you sold your business to Brian Kono.

Supposedly BBS cryo treated mag wheels and got a big increase in stiffness. I think CTP actually has data, call them.

The company we use can. Others crack the sleeves.

Google is your friend. ctpcryogenics.com/

I would say some research with Google would find you local service.

ctpcryogenics.com/

There are many, google is your friend.

Kyle Mohan and Ron Berganholtz use this same company.

It relives stress which makes the stiffness of a formed part more homogeneous, most things have the natural frequency change after cryo.

​@@motoiq makes sense, just as tensioning a guitar string will change it's fundamental frequency → reliving residual stress on a part will also change its natural frequencies. But by this logic, reducing stresses on a part would shift its modes to a lower frequency, which would be a drawback IMO, but then, since the stiffness distribution is more homogeneous, the propensity to excite higher harmonics would be probably lower... Investigating these changes would make for a hell of a great article haha I'm searching for papers about this topic, but I could not find any specifically quantifying the Vibration/Young's Modulus changes after cryo-treatments.

By the way, I have access to some modal-shakers and the facilities to do a modal analysis on a part, in case anyone reading this is interested in shipping me (in central europe) some samples before/after a cryo treatment 🤣

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7F_PnPnQBMs.html

It might mess up the rubber seals

We heard that actually works from our audio nerd friends.

What does it do for audio????

Too soon!

That was talked about in the first half of the interview.

You got it backwards.

@@motoiq You're right, my bad, i did get it arse about face. Cryogenics is materials, cryonics is plant and animal matter.

Not sure if it gets cold enough. Dry Ice, ethanol is -80 c at the best, N2 is about -190c.

@@motoiq I'm sure Bentzion is familiar with the TTT Curve for all of the materials that they treat. The curve for carbon steel shows 50% tempered martensite at 160'C and 90% at 120'C. Is it really necessary to quench to -190'C? or is -80'C sufficient? Knife makers claim -80'C is plenty sufficient. For other materials like aluminum, not sure. More independent testing is required.

In the video, he mentioned claims of parts being stronger and easier to machine after being left out in the winter. I doubt the winter temps got anywhere near -190*C. So what gives?

Helium would cost many times more and there is a global shortage of it. Probably from a metallurgy standpoint not make any difference.

@@motoiq Thanks for answering. Yeah, it's -73C degrees colder. just wondered if anyone has tried it for comparison. And yeah, Liquid helium is eye wateringly expensive these days!

Shiredrift & company, I recently retired from 36 years MRI magnet & cryopump “ cold head / compressor “ service repair. I’ve done some minor cryo treatment in a not so laboratory controlled environment with pistols and rifle barrels. The results varied, one rifle a mini14 saw a 100% improvement in accuracy from 4” groups to 2” groups. It was a SS build not carbon steel. The pistol barrel was a 9mm Glock aftermarket for a sales guy at my local range/store. It also improved 100% from 3” to 1 1/2” @ 15 yards. The other barrels didn’t show much if any improvement. Everything I’ve read and researched leads to colder temperatures and longer soak time will give better results. I’ve been thinking of building a vacuum chamber and using 30K which is -405F pumps to cool the metal. Back in the mid 2000’s many rifle barrel manufacturers were cryo treating and selling new barrels for a short time then they stopped. I spoke to one of them and it was because of varied results. One company has been doing a three day soak instead of a one day soak which seams to be the fix for barrels. The reason liquid nitrogen is used vs any other gas/liquid is cost! Nitrogen is 78% of what we breathe/ air. It’s non flammable and cheap to produce. $0.50 per liter vs helium anywhere from $15 - $40 + per liter.

I did the barrel on my AR15 DMR rifle and the groups went from 0.9"@ 100 yards to 0.30 or less, no shit! CTP Cyrogenics who we use does a 72-hour soak which they determined to be the best.

Do MRI machines need constant cooling or only when running? It would be expensive if that huge 3T magnet needs constantly cooled even when not in use. Been in a long bore MRI many many times & it gets warm in there at this one facility unless can they dial back on the cooling to save nitrogen or helium? Makes me think this one smaller private facility does this ....but they must be able to monitor the magnet temps right? MRI machines always fascinated but scary at the same time .....