I would include “even if they don’t do it intentionally/consciously” - because I can see the “they did the best they could” and “they had good intentions” argument coming. (To which I can only say “okay, but that doesn’t change the result”.)
If a child identifies as a healer, being their child might be helpful. But in general, our parents are just a few other of the billions of special and profound human beings. We care about them - different than owing them - because they know us better than everyone else usually, and the people who know us best - if they are supportive and good critical thinkers - are our most valuable defense against our own biases.
I believe the greater the resentment over having kids, the greater the entitlement there is of a payoff, or repayment of "debt." I can't see much love in that equation.
As someone who was told on family gatherings that I was a mistake my parents made in high school that ruined their future prospects, I can confirm. I grew up being treated with a lot of resentment and I was constantly told by my mother that it's a duty to care for family and how dispicable some people are when they don't want to care for their elderly parents, that these people have a duty to build up their life to acomodate their parents, because the parents had to change their lives in order to acomodate their child. Since I didn't get much affection or attention and didn't feel realy cared for, I grew up wishing to leave my home as soon as possible because I didn't want to tolerate abuse any longer than necessary and I was reminding myself constantly that I have to survive until I reach legal age in order to finally start living. I also didn't want to be such a burden to my parents that they have to complain about it to extended family members and friends, so it only seemed logical to get the heck out on the first opportunity. I didn't want to be around, they only complained about me, so why drag it out? Ofc they called me selfish, ungrateful, confused, mentally ill and entitled for leaving and wanting to live on my own. I thought I did them a favor, but I just replaced their previous cause for complaints with a new one. 😅
@@Seamannon Wow, what black hearts they have/had for only seeing you as an investment that didn't pay off and constantly putting that message out there. Some adult children live with doting parents for several years, playing video games and raiding the fridge. Miserable people with tiny pinched hearts will always find something to complain about. Big hugs to you.
In a word: narcissism. Having children so you can use them (or, older people using younger ones) for your own needs, rather than being a resource for *them* to make use of, which is the proper order of things. Great video by Abdul Saad/Vital Mind Coaching on “The Childhood Origins of Narcissism” that defines narcissism as such.
You have changed my life. It's hard to articulate just how crucial the information you provide is. Your intellect, honesty, sense of self, and humanity are awe-inspiring. Thank you for what you do.
If we pay back our parents, what will we have for our children? I payed much attention to my parents, they're so disturbed, that I had no energy for my own partnership. I was broken and energy poured out.
Existence was never and could never have been a choice for the child, and thus no debt can be ascribed to them. The only way to indebt oneself is to make a decision with repercussions. Laws and edicts may say otherwise but when they do these are the reflections of philosophically and psychologically unsophisticated minds institutionalising their immaturity.
Exactly, the debt is actually on the parent for bringing life into the world and being the responsible adult in this situation for the wellbeing of an innocent baby. The parent owes that child emotional safety as well as food and shelter. The child is a separate being with complex valid feelings.. a child is owned to be taught emotional regulation when they dont know how to do it because their nervous system is not wired for it yet.. if and only if the child feels emotionally safe and a separate person worthy of existing then the child can return love freely if they so wish..
Totally true especially for Indian parents......this is embedded very deep into each and every Indian child to make there parents proud in a way to pay them back..
South Asian parents are so toxic and selfish. They literally see their kids as property and expect kids to sacrifice their souls to please their parents. I hate the culture so much
When it comes to any friction between children and parents, I ALWAYS defend the children. Parents owe children everything, and thankfully children don’t demand much.
You are valuable, man. Don't waste your time and effort on people that take it for granted. Treat yourself as the valuable person you are. They need to understand that. If they don't, then be strong enough to walk away. If they actually care, they will hear you and take it seriously. If they don't care, then you are walking away from something that was only dragging you down.
Fax. The double-bind is the worst part. My existence causes me immense pain and suffering. However, if I were to stop being alive it would sadden everyone who knows me. That doesn't seem like a fair choice to me.
@@johnjohnson3681 apologies for asking possibly dumb question. You are talking about emotional pain? Or physical? And presently healing...getting better..is un-available?
Dude I really want you to know how grateful I am to know someone like you, albeit through a screen. You evoke a familial wholesomeness if that makes any sense. The topics and timings of your videos are also so uncannily relevant to the things I ponder over during my night walks. Might as well make use of the insomnia hahah. Always a pleasure 🍁
"What do children owe their parents? Nothing" 👏👏👏 People don't ask to be born; their parents choose to bring them to this world; they owe them. Children being seen as an investment is a very patriarchal/neoliberal/capitalistic view, and not all cultures are like that. A lot of cultures don't see children as an investment, but as humans.
This started as soon as I turned 18 and it never stopped until I left and cut ties with my mother in December of 2022. It boggles my mind that people like this even think the way they do at all. I'm so glad I can still tear away that terrible cycle of multi-generational degeneracy.
When young, my therapist did his best to persuade me to break away from my parents, especially from my mother. I had not yet understood how I had been emotionally neglected. I am not the sort of person that can leave strings undone. I needed to know specifically why my childhood and family was dysfunctional. My therapist could not help me with the specifics. In recent years mental health has become wider and deeper, allowing more choices and opportunities to heal. And the internet can point each person to the process that speaks to their circumstances. All in all, we, as unique individuals hold the keys to discovering our own cure. Finding a therapist who can find solutions WITH you is critical.
My father told me I should buy my mother gifts (aside from holidays) for all that she’s done for me. Mind you, I have a family with 2 kids and one on the way. My mom asked me if I go in a store and think hey my mom would like that I should buy it for her. Isn’t that what my dad which is her husband is for??
Hello Daniel. As an immigrant’s child I grew up having to translate English for my parents even though I suffered from a disorder called selective mutism from a very young age ,and even though I had difficulties in learning and coping with mental health issues because of it being neglected , I was completely ignored by parents,school, other adults and relatives . I was bullied by students of my age but I was also supported by some of my friends who were just the same age as me who were just kids back then ,they were nicer than any adults, I saw the harsh reality from a very young age,adults are not nice. I only found out about my early childhood mutism when I became an adult, so I’m still processing a lot of unresolved traumas from my past , I’m not saying that adults should’ve known about these psychological terms and sent me to therapy , the fact that most adults didn’t even ask me “if I was okay” depresses me a lot ,only one teacher was kind ,it still hurts me bc I did suffer from this disorder a lot . I did confront my parents after I found out about my childhood disorder and got even more wounded bc they would try to belittle and erase my truth out of their memories. So you saying this world is screwed did make me feel heard, before watching your videos I thought I was just becoming this psychopathic victim who hated the world because I was so hurt, but as I grieve and heal I can still see that the majority of people are not being honest at all. But I met a few understanding people for the first time in my life, as I spoke out about my truth and it was the first time I ever felt heard. We don’t owe parents anything I don’t think my parents even thought about my future and how I will grow up as an adult after leaving me mute as child for years and not caring. I don’t even think animals owe us anything as well as a person practicing veganism ,but the reason I started it was because I was severely mentally depressed to the point I felt something similar between myself and the helpless voiceless animal, it’s a different kind of trauma we go through and I agree we have the responsibility to better ourselves if we’re bringing a precious life into the world just to take it away for us to survive. So many people are virgins when it comes to being honest and authentic and serious improving as humans.
@dailypurity1576, your vulnerability and authenticity is as real as it gets, and you are heard right here and now, again. It is so truth, what you say about the ‘virginity’ of human beings’ (in)capacity to self reflect. What a powerful and insightful metaphor, and even more so, a stark reminder to continue pushing through and moving forward on what is the most important and worthwhile (and sadly, way too undervalued) journey in life-to ascend, to heal our wounds and our traumas, to know ourselves, to understand and value ourselves and our fellow human beings, to be better, kinder, more caring, more real, and more aware. Thank you for sharing your experience here; I am sorry that you didn’t feel seen and for the pain you’ve endured. Your words, however, are a precise reflection of what real courage looks like.
I am the child of lovely, open-minded, creative, respectful, encouraging parents, but I follow all your videos to better understand this world and the reality of so many other families. 🙄😐
I can't imagine having that type of family experience. My family was the reason I have no interest in having a family of my own. happily permanently single.
The problem is also society at large though. Parents in this day and age can be great, but if 90% or more of kids grow up in sick family systems, even the ones who are raised healthy will get corrupted eventually. Or if they are not corrupted, will live a life of isolation or feel ostracized. It starts from people in power too. Truth is it's in the interest of power structures for people to stay stuck in the family system-they're more predictable and easy to control that way. Just my 2 cents.
You can’t possibly account for this statistic. This is a self-defeating belief, not a truth. This is affirming a negative world view, hoping someone might convince you otherwise. But this won’t solve the problem and it isn’t good for you, or anyone, to believe you user so little control over your own well being. The first thing you must do, is stop reaffirming these negative beliefs, for yourself. You get down, we all do, but you must have the self discipline to shift your focus, to something that will distract you from this kind of circular thinking. That’s usually all it takes. If you have to do it 50 times in one day, then that’s what you do. It won’t always be this way, but some days it might. Don’t allow what may have happened to you, allow you to believe you are a victim. You may very well have been, at one time or another, but you aren’t anymore. You have enough going for you, to be able to pursue whatever you choose, if you want it badly enough. Focus on something that allows you to set goals, small ones, and no matter how small, achieve that daily goal. Test yourself to see if you can set a goal, that requires patience, and daily, smaller goals, in order to achieve. Stay focused. Don’t allow yourself to go down the rabbit holes.
You're probably right, but I don't think getting corrupted is inevitable, depending on what you mean by that. What's inevitable in my view is the suffering that we experience from the reality you described, but we don't have to let it deform us. And we can take time out and make space for healing.
my genius 90 year old father is a sadistic psychopathic narcissist who expects me to be understanding of his emotionally abusive behavior since he was having a bad day ; yet he never calls me, he just emails me his horrible slandering messages (yes my mother was a total slave to my Dad) and all of us kids worked too doing daily chores and we would be beaten if we didn't stay in line.
We don´t owe them anything at all - but they badly used us like their personal slaves - when they finally died - I did not even go to their funerals - my body just said no! Good job.
Suppose a government doctor cures his 100 patients. Now, are the patients supposed to pay anything back to the doctor. No, because the government pays to that doctor, he is an employee of the government and is supposed to treat his patients for free. Similarly, parents are also God gifted to children, they r like emplyees of God and are supposed to give their children whatever they can(just like the doctor is supposed to provide the best treatment he can).
If parents create an environment where the child grows up feeling safe, nurtured and respected then the adult child will naturally want to be there to help their parents when the parents get older. If not, then the child/young adult has to fend for themselves for survival. If I had it to give, I would have given it but I was still in survivor mode myself when my mother reach old age.
Thank you, I’ve seen such abusive older parents and the victim/adult child feels obligated to care for them. Society does not understand, because it makes assumptions and was not inside the abusive home. I think many parents were only motivated by some sort of personal social security, anyway, and tried to make their children “in their own image.” It’s supposed to be very selfless and paying forward, but I have yet to meet parents that answer the right way, when asked their reasons, It’s tragic!
Thank you for your transparency in talking about this subject. Both my parents were dysfunctional. The Good that I still managed to Receive from their dysfunction was Not to repeat the cycle. Their lives spiraled down as they realized they were not entitled to their kids lives as my siblings & I became adults doing the work of forgiveness, self- introspection and healing. My parents lives ended prematurely & sad actually. This was their choice.
Some ppl told me they had children to look after them in old age, which I think is totally unfair. Not only did the children not asked to be born, they should not be burdened with old parents. I think when a kid turns 18, he/she is free to leave the family for good.
Kids don’t owe parents anything. Kids did not ask to be born that was the parents decision. If parents treat their kids well then their kids will automatically give back to them they won’t have to demand things. If parents have to demand it means they were not good parents to their kids.
👏 bravo, Daniel! Totally agree with you a hundred percent! My brother the Golden child I’m convinced suffers from Stockholm syndrome by my racist, homophobic, sexist and narcissistic mother who I sensed early on was off - very disconnected and disassociated; unstable and untrustworthy. A master mindgamer. I learned the only way to truly save myself was no contact with my entire family it was all so terrible and distressing to me - literally my body couldn’t handle it anymore. I try keep listening to my body and feelings ~ what my heart is saying after having to stuff my feelings inside for so long out of self protection from my parents cruelty. It took me along time to learn to trust others again. It’s been a long road, but finally I feel like I’ve arrived at the field of flowers under blue skies. I am free now.
I think my daughter owes me nothing. Actually, I owe her a lot, because in her childhood she was watching aggressive father yelling and I didn't take her out from that situation. :(
I agree with this perspective for the most part. I think that there is some obligation on the part of children to love and honor their parents and their old age. However, in narcissistic family systems, where such is the dynamic, it makes that incredibly difficult and undesired to do.
To leave , work hard , become self sufficient and return on occasion to visit . ……simple as that . But today that seems to be almost impossible. Leaving such comfortable setups that most parents have given their kids is a step down . Most have nothing to work toward . The parents and grandparents have already given it to them . ……..why leave , that means difficulty at times and todays youth does not handle difficulty well at all.
Yes. Show this to the outdated, conservative, traditional families. Children don’t owe their parents shit. We didn’t ask to be be born. Nor did we sign a contract to be a financial, emotional, mental clutch for our families.
Wish I could share this with my parents cosy dad reminded me that they raised me so I ask him to give me an invoice so I can pay the amount once and for all
Sometimes you have to love yourself enough, to sit back observe their behaviour. Accept the truth of how they behave. It no longer effects you as you are now your own parent. Just Forgive and listen to your thoughts and set boundaries, and BE INNOCENT
This hits hard. I hate my parents for passing me the view I owe them. Like I have a unpayable eternal debt I can never repay, just for being given life. Then add to that shame for many things and I've basically never felt free to live life for myself, like I'm the owner of it and can do as I please. Which I can, but damn if it's not hard to believe that because of how much brainwashing I was put through.
Many parents are far too dysfunctional and unaware of themselves to be even remotely capable of being caring, loving and understanding towards their children. When you’re a child they treat you like an experiment for their own ambitions and ideals. When you rebels and say NO I don’t want to do this way they get outraged. They want you to study in a university they choose, a profession they think it’s best for you., , they want to control your life and micromanage it, and well when you say No I don’t like this or that, and when you dare say that you want to do things differently boy their egos become so hurt they don’t care that you’re a individual on your own right with your own particular likes, wants, interests and preferences.., they take it personally.
Yes indeed, those very dysfunctional producers do collateral damage to their children and those children repeat that bs again and again - it has to stop with me now.
You should care like you would for a good friend. If it's a healthy friendship great, if it becomes very toxic and you've tried to fix it, you have protect yourself even if there were good times. It's the same for ex's you cant be expected to stay out of a debt of gratitude for either the good times or for being looked after at times
I think if parents were really good and never expected anything from the child, the child would naturally want to help their parents at old age. I worked in a care home and I saw children with good relationship with parents came to visit them everyday but the parents who were controlling, didn't have their children visiting much.
People have a moral responsibility to deal with their emotional baggage. If you don't have the courage to undertake that, you certainly don't have the courage to be a good parent.
Nor do you have the ability. You WILL abuse your kids if you don’t deal with your own childhood abuse. If only we treated child abuse as the serious crime it really is.
I believe my job as a parent was to love my child to the best of my ability, while discerning what his needs and wants are, not mine. Everything I do for him I do because I love him, not because I expect a payback. I taught him to use his wings to fly, and believe in himself❤
I remember my grandmother telling me that in the south, people had large families to work in the fields from the time they could walk. I couldn't imagine how hard that had to be for a little girl. She picked cotton till her fingers bled. In the deep south that was the life that was very common. She told me about some abuse and did turn into an alcoholic. When my adopted mother was 84 I overheard her call me her "slave" to her brother over the phone. I was helping her. Or so I thought. She didn't know I heard that and I kept it my secret. You know, They were just a disappointment to us, really. I don't even think they knew we even had a brain. But that's where our advantage comes in darlin. We knew they were missing something. They're heart and soul. You can never buy that at the store, can you know. Thats a God given gift. You have a beautiful soul darlin. So Don't let their blindness block you from anything you know is yours. They had their life. Abd they chose to not respect it. You do. You see, you respect and appreciate your gift of life honey bucket. 😊
Wow, this is really coming at a good time for me, especially as a young adult who is still very much struggling to navigate how to cultivate my own life, separate from that of what my parents may or may not want for me. Thank you, Daniel. It is a difficult path to walk, to scrutinize one’s parents and the ways our society conditions us to “value” family, even though more often than not valuing family often means that we must reject the core of who and what we are, all to appease these “loved ones” who really, fundamentally, *don’t* even love us back… I’m glad you are a voice that seeks to counter this pervasive narrative that tells us that we “must” be loyal to our family or else we are “selfish” and “bad”… it’s mind-boggling just how badly society demands that we persist in a dissociated state from our inner self, insisting that we betray ourselves through self-repression, self-stifling, needless self-sacrifice… the demand to conform is thinly veiled as “loyalty”, a word that more people are much more receptive to… Anyways, I’m kind of rambling now haha, but thanks again for sharing your thought-provoking perspective.
Thank you! Sooooo true! My debt I finally discovered, was to myself - to heal the decades of horrific damage done to me physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.
What parts of life could actually be considered a gift under objective standards? Because everything else holds in that respect, except for the claim that life is a gift, and by proxy that we owe it to life to be the best that we can be. It just isn’t in line with the same objective basis that is used to determine what we commonly experience; it seems to be entirely determined by personal subjectivity, and therefor as real as any other unfalsifiable, unproven claim. Life is more accurately described as being a curse rather than a gift.
I can't express in words, how much I am grateful for your work. You really saved me from so much suffering, i would have otherwise have to go through. Thankyou
My dad (now deceased) and his widow (stepmother) believe that parents shouldn't telephone their children; the children should phone them. My stepmother phones me only on my birthday or if someone has died. So I phone her every month or so, and within a few minutes I hear the first "anyway." The conversations are always superficial, never lasting more than five minutes, but even then I hear "anyway" multiple times. I tolerate it but hate it. I learned not to challenge my parents through fear. I have to confess to having participated in a fake relationship with a fake persona. I've dropped it.
Very good points. My mother wasn’t aware of her dehumanizing behavior until I called her on it (via no contact 5 yrs). When she treated me as a human she was rewarded via contact. She struggled with boundaries for a long while but eventually got the hang of it. As a parent of adults I do struggle. I need help but I know they have their lives and different goals then me because times are different and priorities have to shift to survive.
Went no contact with my severely abusive narcissist mother five years ago after 55years of hoping she would change...its been very peaceful since... ... should have done it sooner !
Thank you for being out here. I 'discovered' you only last week and I am hooked. You, or at least your content, is a gem. You are a free, authentic, curious, empathic person. It just shows in everything you say. It's as if you are in my mind. We agree on almost everything. (Especially on the topic of parenthood, and having children). So many people truly appreciate what you do and share with the world. Thank you. 🥰
I so agree with you: I feel I owe myself and the world the responsibility of maturing and growing, however hard it is. In a way, it's a way of honoring the fact of being alive.
I wouldn’t be generalized. This is a statement of an atheist. He groups all parents into a category of bad parent if, their child wants to become estranged. I don’t think most parents expect their kids to care for them. They have retirement. I guess he was abused and assumes most parents that way,
I am grateful that my parents gave me life ...although I also acknowledge that life spark comes from another source. I was at the mercy of parents for early survival. This discussion has been writ large on my life for at least a decade. It has been very self damaging. Finally, I have come to the same conclusion that you have outlined. The last few years ....and probably a few to come ....are dedicated to self nuture and reparenting.
these videos are so empowering for me. they just give me a sense of things being set right. and I may be totally reading too much into them but I get such a revolutionary vibe from them, even politically. or maybe I'm just projecting because I'm a communist but either way this is really healing, thank you
Thanks Daniel. Well, this added a trauma to work on. I worked for my parents because they could get a tax break, but they never paid me. I don't know what they reported as my wage. I probably started around age 7 or 8. They bragged about it to other cult members, and told them about the loop hole, encouraging others to do it.
Yes! There is a reason why a mother bird pushes her chicks out of the nest as soon as they have learned how to fly. That’s why children are called our offspring… we are to protect them, provide for and care for their needs as they grow up, to love them unconditionally and help them ‘spring off’ into adult life successfully …and without any ties to our aprons keeping them entangled to us. They are free and separate individuals. Children are a gift from God who come through us and we never ever owned them. They owe us Nothing and it’s their free will to chose whether or not they want to keep us as part of their lives when we grow older.
your videos help keep me on track, and not give into the hoovering attempts when I know I don't owe them anything. I know that the longing feeling i have deep inside cannot be filled or healed by them - ever.
4:55 A debt to parents or a community or society that abused you throughout your childhood??? Neglected you???? Se///xually abused? Sold for sl___avery???? Discriminated against you because of race or gender??? Daniel, your parents did love you more than their parents loved them, AND what your parents did to abuse you is not as awful, compared to some of the abuses that some psychopathic parents do AND did to their children, by your own admission. Sure, most sane and conscious people would agree that LIFE on earth is a GRAND GIFT from God or the Universe, whatever people want to call that Higher Power. However, that gratitude can ONLY be felt when the emotional or mental or physical pain is reduced enough, like the darkest curtains need to be pulled back in order to see the sun that is shining through the glass window. This cruel society tells these abused children that it is the SOLE esponsibility of the individuals who were abused to heal themselves, but that depends on the degree and extent of that injury. Would you tell someone who was a victim of an extreme car crash to just get up and walk, despite losing a leg or having a broken leg??? Without the support of the people, that victim of the car crash can't even drive themselves to a doctor's appointment, and if left alone, that leg will never ever heal. Yet, the cruel society expects CPTSD people to heal on their own just by pulling themselves up by their boot straps.
I love how you just say it - farm animal, parasite. These are the perfect metaphors. Well said, and thank you for the validation that we don't owe people who treat us like a resource to extract sustenance from.
My MIL would say I should have more children so they take care of me when I’m older. That’s not my reason to have a child, my child doesn’t owe me anything. I hope to give my child a happy life, with nothing in return.
Yes, children should not owe their parents anything. But which healthy mind knowing that would make so huge investment of having children FOR NOTHING IN RETURN? Also.. looking to all the animal species, we are the only one who want something in return! Thats terrible
Children are not an investment. Only a sick mind expects a return on such an "investment", and will sicken the children too. That's why the world is so full of misery.
One that knows it can provide for itself and wants to give another person a shot at a decent life? Doing things to help others even if you get nothing in return is still inherently satisfying to healthy people.
You touch on a saying that has been inspirational for me : A wise man once said, “In one pocket I have the words ~ I owe nothing to anyone. In the other pocket ~ I owe all to all mankind”. The interdependence of the parent/child may be better served when the child also becomes an improvement on the parental skills of their parents for their children. This working on those deficits one became aware of along with one’s own issues has been a good place for me to start as a different parent.
From 10:55-11:15 To pay the debts to parents.. Wait! To be payING the debts to parents until thd day those die? And where I live, people live until say 85 and thus expect children of children to join in paying the debt, which is weird concept: a person invests 20 to 25 years in a child, and during that period child is mostly pressured by society to OBEY. Then...when the child is say 45 and the parent is 65-after ALWAYS being respectful, obedient,conforming...to that parent ..this child is AGAIN PRESSURED by society to be AT HAND to ageing parent. That ageing parent may live to be at least 80, if not 90 and constantly DEMANDS from others (grandchildren included!) t hover around them. Those elders are allowed evrn to mis-use police and social services in their abuse children "games". False accusations and then denial even when phonecalls and recordings CONFIRM what those did. And the society? "Oh! This is what older people are like" By the time such a parent dies, the "child" is at least 65 and grandchildren are 40 with some bewildered grandgrandchildren of 10.
Through long months of thinking after no contact I came to the conclusion that I was just a tool that was used by mother to be liked by her parents. She couldn’t get their love, so used me showing how quiet I was, good grades I got, my future plans e.t.c. - anything that could show her as a perfect parent. But behind closed doors any inconvenience about me (I needed to see a doctor, or wanted to start a hobby her parents may not like) may lead to anger, scream and then a silent treatment. Low hygiene, old clothes, unhealthy food (no, she had enough money, but it all required effort) - at home, but I should’ve been dressed perfectly, nice and clean, be energetic and positive when going to meet grand parents. I had a constant fear of her and these old people all my life. And I won’t go back at any costs even though they still try to pull me back into the system. Yes, I feel sorry, that mother live such a misery life, but it was her choice not to contradict. I tried to comfort her for years before I left, but it ended by more and more abuse as the tool didn’t work as it was meant to be and (surprisingly) wanted to live its own life. Thank you for your video.
