What Do You Think The Ram Trucks Cummins Recall Was For? We Tell You What We Found Was Done To Them 

Guys had mine done without knowing about this cummins deal. Truck went from getting very close to 18 unloaded now 15, towing my 38 foot fifth wheel 12 to 12.8 and now its at 8 mpg with loss of power. I am going through def every 250 gallons im losing 2.5 gallons of def. People saying nothing was compromised have know idea what they are talking about. I am a master certified ASE tech for 25 years and own my own shop. Dont take your truck in.

My dealer mechanic told me it is a way to force people in to find out who has deleted trucks.

2015 Ram 3500 here. Nearing 400k miles. This has been stock always. It was a hotshot truck until I bought it 2019. I refused to delete it (even suffered through problems) because I figured they are after us.

I'm not buying it. Why would Cummins risk $1.6B for a DEF gauge calibration? There's a lot more to this story. I think you're on to something with this "Whose deleted" thing. I also worry about other things; like ERG. Supposedly, the 13-18 trucks don't require EGR maintenance, which is very expensive. Will this recall change that? I have the stock tune in my truck. The only thing I deleted was the grid heater. There is no way I will ever take my truck back to a dealership until SOMEBODY, be it Ram, Cummins or the EPA, is more transparent about what this recall does and the long-term effects of it. I own my truck outright. It's paid for and I hold the title. I also fund the EPA with my tax dollars. They owe me a more detailed explanation.

I had the recall done. The only thing Ive noticed different, is higher DEF consumption.

The only reason the def gauge would drop faster would be because the update has increased the def dosing parameters to reduce nox. The derate parameters for def level in the tank has always been there. At a certain level it gives you a warning as you go past the level the warnings increase i.e. cel then on empty its derate time. It's never been designed to let you run further and pollute more complete opposite. So if what you saying about the increase in def usage is true then part of the update is a change in def dosing parameters and probably some changes in fueling parameters, vgt parameters and egr flow parameters. They only ones that are going to know exactly is cummins, will the driver know the difference, most probably not a few maybe. As far as ecm's being locked out never happen but going forward its going to be a lot more difficult for the aftermarket to develop tuners. Safe guards are probably being written into the future updates that will put the ecm into derate if tune is trying to be installed requiring the owner to take it to a dealer for a hefty repair bill to deter anyone from doing so. As far as collecting data on the number of trucks that have been deleted I really don't think they're wasting time on that. Cummins don't care and if the fed really wants to get rid of deleted trucks all the have to do is require all oil burners to go through emissions testing nation wide yearly and to have certified tamper proof ATS systems. This recall is just another shake down by the fed, remember the fed is the biggest criminal organization period.

I have a 2020 2500 it has 24K on it now. It had a fuel pump recall on it at 10K the stealership put on a new CP3 and reflashed PCM. The only mods to it are the Banks Monster Ram to get rid of that grid heater ticking time bomb. I do all the mantainance my self the only thing I'm guilty of is that I change the oil a little sooer than needed. I pull a 12K fifth wheel trailer. This truck runs GREAT!! The PCM recall was done when they put the new pump on and it actually runs better. I average 18 to 21 on the Highway and around 15 in the City without the trailer. I hope this helps anyone who has any concerns. Just remember don't Dodge it Ram it... Y'all have a good one.

I hate that I can't watch you guys more often, but I rely on your podcast to get me through Houston traffic. Outstanding job guys.

Makes me love my 12 valve all that much more, these new diesel’s are not worth the hassle or the money they cost.

We need a class action lawsuit against the government, Cummins, and Ram.

100% checking deletes

How'bout an ABS brake module recall for the thousands of Ram 2017-2018 2500/3500 trucks. Owners are putting up with the constant dashboard chime, until they pull the fuse?!

If this is all about the EPA trying to find out who has a deleted truck, then why are they only going after Cummins? There are tons of deleted Fords and GMs on the road. Maybe they’re next? I’d never get this recall. If the EPA wants these trucks off the road they better use that 2B to buy them back from private citizens.

Hey from Tyler, TX!! My cousin bought a new Ram 2500 two days before this issue was announced. He’s on pins and needles hoping they don’t ruin it with the recall. He hasn’t gotten the recall yet but he knows it’s coming. Sounds like a really ridiculous issue for the insane cost.

I think its disgraceful what the government and EPA has done to a once reliable, good running diesel vehicle for the American consumer. Now these things are unreliable, ridiculously expensive to maintain and not worth the trouble of owning one in my opinion.

My thoughts after reading comments and watching video. I'm in Cali and I am not having it completed. 2018 3500 w/ only 36000 miles and I will never take it to a dealership. Luckily San Diego is one of a few cities in CA that does not require this recall.

Thanks, very interesting. I had a VW diesel and a Mercedes recalled. I made out pretty good on both. Now I own a Wrangler and Gladiator both Ecodiesels. I'm hoping they just leave them alone and let me enjoy them. Tons of power, great fuel mileage. Really cool you guys make it easy to find your content. I get you on your Facebook Page, Podcasts and here. Also own a T-shirt. Thanks!

GM recalled my truck two years ago to reset the emissions. Same result, the thing regens like crazy and I go through DEF fluid about a third more than I used to. They were honest about it though and told me what the recall was for. Would I do it again? No.

How much DEF does it take to refill the tank before and after the adjustments when the gauge is at the same level and how many miles were driven on that amount? Maybe that was mentioned in the video and I just missed it.

Being a fleet mechanic for the past 30 plus years and recently I am starting a training course on the PACCAR mx13 engine which CUMMINS makes the Use of def is 1-2 Gallons of DEF to 50 gallons of fuel. So yes they are re flashing the ECM so to use more def. I’m not sure what the ratio is now on the current 6.7 before the Re flash and what the new ratio will be.

I had the particulate mater sensor done on my 22 ram 6.7 recently they flashed the ecm all ive noticed is im burning more def than i was before it fuel mileage is the same .

Had my fuel filter replaced 2 weeks ago, I turned down that recall. I have no emissions in my county in Pennsylvania and would like to delete eventually.

I have a 2020, RAM, 3500, it is not included in the recall, it only affects 2013-2019, trucks, if you have a 2020 and newer it currently is not effected . Diesel Dudes has a DELETE for every year 2024 and older, free shipping W/ a 25$ customs fee from Canada

Curious if the flash - increased the duty cycle of the EGR valve? Putting more (Soot) - (Sludge) in the intake.

The Price of DEF has gone up.. Now the EPA wants us to use more def... NOPE... im not doing it..

Detuned truck also. Have a 2019 dodge ram 3500 with ho motor. On my scanner. It shows 850ftlbs now. Definitely felt a difference in towing.

I Just had mine done>No different in power and the DEF gauge looks the same.Will tell when i hook up my 40 foot fifth wheel this spring

I have a 2019 Ram 3500 dually and just received my recall VB6, 67A in the mail today. Washington State.

It seems like the epa wanted to know how many deleted trucks are out there. I wonder why they picked on just ram? Is it because the design of the computer and leaving it open for deletes? Is Ford and Chevy next? I guess we will see. What I like about Russ is, he is doing the research and telling us facts and not overly speculative.

The recall is putting the truck to the point where it will use more DEF (active and passive) to "scrub" the emission. Dodge boys always boast to me that there '19 Cummnis doesn't use as much DEF as my '19 Powerstroke. Now they are using about the same I amount I use.

12 valve for the win

So glad we have a 12 pre def 🎉😂

2018 2500 , took my truck in for warranty work on the coolant level sensor. I knew about the recall when I brought my truck into dealership. I've owned the truck for a little over a yr. When I brought it miles was at 50,000 , currently 92,903. I use my truck commercially. I never had a message come up until I took it to dealer. See dealer message came up about exhaust filter and the check engine light also came on. I was 2 hrs away from home, I made it home with the message coming up see dealer exhaust filter. I don't drive the truck for a couple days, when I do the check engine light went off and the message went away. I know for sure the issue stems from the software update. I can hear my fans coming on now with the truck barely getting to running temp. With a month wait to get into dealership for a forced Regen, then I get a letter from a salesman at dealer saying they want to buy the truck for more than market value. I don't think I'll be back ✌️

I haven't heard anything about the year models from '07 to '12. Sounds like it's only affecting the models with the DEF system. I'm sure they'll find a way to go after the pre-DEF trucks as well.

Maybe a good think if the particle filter stays cleans maybe less problems for us! Maybe?

I don't live in CA so haven't taken it in. Waiting to see what happens. I am sure when I take it in for something else they will change it

I have 2021 2500 and I have the check engine light on and I but the truck use with 51245 00 miles on and they not fixed the problem yet is going back for

Trust the Government? Remember what they did with covid?

What are the before and after numbers?

So I had a new 96 F350 crew cab powerstroke. It was ran on the test track at Ford. 50 miles. When I got it my mileage increased by 1 mpg Every tank of fuel. It would also light up the tires (smoke them) at about 3/4 throttle. Pulling a skidsteer was almost like it didn't exist behind me. My fuel pump or pressure regulator (mechanic said regulator, Supervisor said pump, started acting up after owning it a couple months. When I got in to leave I noticed a drastic change in throttle response before I even got out of the parking lot (huge difference). It was a dog ! I turned right around, went in and asked wth they did to it ? Then told them to put it back the way it was ! "We can't do that". I was told. Well my mpg also dropped to 14 ! Note: I had 3:55 gears. I tried several after market tuners but none did to it what that test drive did to it ! I could get performance increase but not like it was when I bought it. Even the claims of 70 and 100hp increase. And my mileage was never the same.

I have been curious if this was because the early ECMs weren't locked out, as well as if they were trying to get a list of deleted vehicles. It would be pretty easy to compare a list of VINs that had the recall done to a list of registered VINs. Also, if your truck is deleted, why would you even attempt going in for a recall?

so did Ford and Chev get this system right or do they need checking to

i never will do this update .. i have a ghost tune def/egr detete.. buddy works at a Ram dealer said it was to find out what people did tunes on trucks and to use more def fuel per tank and to lock computers out from being tuned again

What years does this recall refer to?

I have a 2018 2500 6.7 , I just did the 67a recall . The next day the engine light turns on . I live in California the truck is totally stock . My truck has been in the shop for three days and still no answer on what’s wrong. They said maybe a bent rod . The error code was p0306 .

I bought a used 2016 and went to have the recall done. They asked if it ever had a tune and because I couldn't tell them they refused to flash it. How can I find out it it has ever been tuned?

It sounds to me like they’re forcing it into regen more often (hence, burning more DEF) AND modified the program to force the truck into “idle mode” if you fail to refill your DEF tank before it’s empty.

Yes this is to see how many trucks have been deleted. But my 2018 hasn't been deleted so I'm going to have the recall done in a few days.

What year models is this recall?

I have an old Dodge Ram truck and I love it. I would neveeer buy a newer truck. And what the hell is DEF ?

Got mine done my def consumption went to almost double while hauling over30,000 pounds taking my truck to Canada lol

This just adds more confusion about what the effect of the Flash is, here you say they reprogrammed the DEF gauge, other Tubers are saying the truck is using way more DEF that it did before the Flash was done. So until somebody like Gale Banks that really knows what their doing and has the engineers to identify the effect it will all be speculation.

I don't like feeling like there is a conspiracy afoot. Yet, in this case, I can't help but feel this way. I own a 2018 2500. It is stock, other than wheels and shocks i left it alone. I wrestled with the delete or not and opted to keep it stock. I had the update at the dealer that sold me the truck, and so far, 3 weeks after the truck runs the same. I have lost 1 mpg, and DEF usage is only slightly more than before the update. As far as a conspiracy? There is a clear trail of the "gov" tracking credit card purchases, monitoring internet sites, and those sites' customers. 11 years in the odds are in the epas' favor they will find a percentage of these trucks deleted. The picture emerging is ultimately the ".gov" is pushing an anti diesel agenda. Doesn't it seem odd? When i read the numbers 630,000 trucks over a ten year period? What is the percentage of the total number of diesel-powered vehicles in America? So, was this in the end all an excuse for the epa/doj to find deleted trucks?

To me, it would seem that there are two facets to the recall. One you use more def. Secondly, the software has been updated so that you can't delete your truck the way they have been deleting them in the past. I would speculate that the def consumption is something that was discovered by the EPA during the investigation. There was absolutely nothing for Cummins to gain by manipulating the amount of DEF these trucks used. 10-12 years ago, Def was just being mandated. It was/is viewed as a consumable that was mandated by the EPA that the end user would have to provide regardless of the rate of consumption. I think the bigger focus of the EPA is on eliminating the work around that allows one to delete the truck in the first place. So why did they limit their scope to just Rams with Cummins? My speculation for this would be the EPA must have some type of incriminating evidence on them (think email from Cummins to an outside vendor) stating that they (Cummins) intentionally designed the software to allow for the deletes. Why else would they accept the ridiculous fine? For those not taking their truck in (i am one of them) for the recall. Just be vigilant! I could see ram rolling out a secondary recall (something un-related) and claiming it is a potential safety hazard (think air bag recall) just so you lower your guard and take your truck in for that. They will use that opportunity to do the emissions update and claim, your vehicle did not have the faulty part for the bogus recall.

Clearly the recall recalibrate the def system tobregen more often to use more def per tank of fuel.... and it will now remove power if you run out of def and will take a shop to reset the power

I remember when plants needed co2 to turn it to o2. Lol 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 good sheepel

Your description of the DEF change didn't make sense. Are you saying that the gauge drops faster but the truck isn't using more DEF? And you said that you used to be able to run them out of DEF and just keep driving and polluting more, but we know that's not true.

California will allow you to register it without the update. I just did it and got my tags.

I haven't had any issues with my Factory Deleted 3rd Gen. 👍

For over 15 years, I’ve been heavily involved with the German diesel emissions mess. Finally the EPA and DOJ have finally gotten around to domestic diesels. First and foremost, modern diesel emissions will legally operate properly and reliably, if you understand how the system actually operates. This is not as simple as you might think. There’s plenty of blame to go around. The EPA and CARB have known the designs they mandated and approved, would not actually work in the real world where consumers wouldn’t do the proper maintenance, and manufacturers weren’t about to explain how much maintenance really is required. The EPA ties the manufacturers hands with well meaning but unrealistic regulations. The manufacturers are forced to comply with the fuel efficiency and tailpipe emissions or pay outrageous penalties. This is a VERY simplified explanation. The problem’s actually start when the engine is new. In order to protect the emissions system, engines no longer use Break-in oil when new. The piston rings don’t properly seat with the cylinder walls and many engines have a blow-by problem within the first 1,000 miles. In order to meet fuel economy standards and protect the DPF, manufacturers tell owners to use engine oil that won’t stand up to the heat in the engine. Oil companies make up wild claims about the quality of their oil. The operating thermal window for modern diesel’s is very narrow. To cold and soot clogs the DPF and EGR. To hot, and the NOx emissions go to high. The recall is using more DEF because Cummings had to increase the combustion temperature. That increases the NOx, which means more DEF. Always keep the DEF tank full. The hotter the combustion temperature, the harder it is on the oil. The older API CF Diesel oil is actually better for your engine. For hot weather, towing, or driving in the mountains, Amsoil 20w/50 Dominator diesel oil is excellent. Change every 5k. The CCV filter is very important and should be changed every 30k. If it’s soaking in oil, you have excessive blow-by. The CCV filter should be replaced whenever the EGR valve is dirty. Dirty air filters cause oil consumption and clog the EGR. Replace the air filter every 20k. Fuel pumps fail because of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, or small amounts of gas somehow gets into the fuel. Sulfur is the lubricant in diesel fuel. Gas has no lubricant. When the fuel can’t properly lubricate the pump, the pistons in the pump fail and throws metal into the fuel injection system. Marvel Mystery oil in the fuel adds sulfur to the fuel and lubricates the pump. I know the bottle says you can’t use it in modern diesels. Use one quart in a tank of fuel. I can hear the howling now. I’ve seen the internal documents from manufacturers. They know it works, but can’t say so. This is only the tip of the iceberg of information about modern diesels. Deleting the system is not the answer.

03 here. 5.9 Truckers great. Stock no CC and no def.

The EPA hates Diesel power. Cummins Did Not admit to ANY wrongdoing and I don't think they did. I think they should counter sue for damages!

Minwhile, military pickup trucks on US bases are factory deleted.

Thanks! Nice Job helping us understand what's going on. Also thanks for saying Hypothesis instead of Theory. I know it sounds anal, but funny how some don't like to use facts, instead assumptions are used to explain things.

Why didn't they recall the grid heater for failing and destroying the engine?

All they did was make sure the computer was set at factory spec and locked it. That way guys can't reprogram the computer and delete it. But people will find a way around the locked computer.

You do know, all the dealers have to do is the paperwork and bill chrysler for the recall. That puts your vin in the computer as being done, iv had recalls done in the computer that iv refused in the past

My 2018 will not pass emissions after the recall. Fighting with the dealer and Ram!!!!!

The only thing it did for mine was to increase the amount of DEF being used.

I can’t get this def system issue fixed. I have had it in 4 times and it isn’t deleted. I can’t get it deleted or fixed. 35k miles.

The United States is a private corporation. That makes it no different than McDonald's or Walmart 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

my new back in 2004 ram 6 Spd manual 5.9 L turbo HO, diesel quad cab 3500 4wd long box loaded would get 21 to 23 mpg not much emission controls on it. my new 2022 ram 3500 automatic aisin trans 6.7 L turbo HO diesel quad cab long box same loads has all the emissions stuff/def. and gets 11.5 gpm both trucks have been driving the same routes over the years. so which one actually put out more pollution after 40,000 miles ? the minimal emissions 2004 or the emission/def beast of 2022 ? an interesting question for someone who wants to do the calculations. the big power of the 2022 loaded with work supplies still is not faster up the steepest hills on the highway than the same loads in the 2004 truck , the 2022 is a smoother ride from factory improvements to the suspension system including air suspension. I would like to challenge the regulators and put this question to the test to see if they have just wasted everybody's time with these demands to manufactures on these emission mandates as have these constant expensive rules actually made total output of emissions over a half / life of the engine less or more? why has this test not been done as it shows a true useful reduction of air pollution but nothing said about it 🤨 my trucks are completely stock and I am the only driver.

My truck doesn’t need a recall. I have an 2006

What I would like to know where the money is going from fines the EPA get . Let's make them account ability .

I have a dodge ram 2500 with a Cummings engine Andy dodge is having the most problems with the engines I do tks Dave

What's left after they go after good company's ?

The biggest advantage of diesel was 100% mechanical which results in great reliability. Once they went to common rail, you bought all the electronics problems that gas burners have.

This was set up to find out who deleted their trucks. The EPA and Cummins had been working with each other the past four years. The EPA needed money to pay for one of their projects in exchange, Cummins was able to keep its military contract.

You do not have to get a recall performed in states that do not do emissions testing, In states where emission tests are performed may be a problem though.

I believe that they programmed it to use more DEF fluid, also possibly put a lock in the computer so you can’t tune them two birds, one stone that’s most likely what the EPA wanted done because of the possibility that so many comments owners have them tuned, possibly

Got my notice will be ignoring it last truck they did that to was my srt10 ram and it killed the power of it.

Remember that the lawyers and judges were not in offices for two to three years of that time. I am sure that affected the timing.

They want you to spend more on def ,and control your filters that have to be changed more

2016 RAM 3500. There is a third option to what they are up to. I think this is really about the FEDs/Kalifornia collecting two billion dollars without having to raise taxes.

I know they are cracking down but they are getting carried away. I mean its not quite like the death penalty but close, Probably less punishment for robbing a bank or don't get me started on ID theft and when bank account gets hacked.

Sounds to me like they used the DEF thing as a technical excuse to make people bring them in. The only ‘emissions defeat device built in’ seems to be that the computer can be tuned to run without the crap. Since I have to pass emissions, all that is there there, but I still am leery . In all honesty I’ll probably just ignore the recall since no one’s forcing me to.

EPA doesn’t have the authority to make laws and with Chevron being over turned recently it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Would a larger custom DEF tank fix this issue that stuff's expensive anyway but if it had a bigger tank would that fix the issue this is all speculation thinking here but that's what comes to mind a bigger tank for the after treatment

My 2016 is bone stock and in my opinion uses a lot of DEF....Im doubtful I'll take it in .....theres a lot more to all this than they're telling us. Give me a big check and I'll give it back.

Is this something they’ll be doing to the GM vehicles?

This recall brings the 2013-2019 update to the MY2020+ trucks. No tin foil hats.

They'll come and get your truck. I've heard of guys having deleted trucks and they find out and they take your truck.

I bought a 2018 2500. Had problems with it from the beginning. I was always at the dealership. I got rid of it before the warranty expired. Best thing I've ever done short of leaving California. It's an over-engineered POS. Cummings is a great motor, its just all the BS they hang on it.

My 2019 ram 3500 Cummins 3,300 miles I used 2.5 gallons def big deal empty truck 5 tenths of a cent per mile ain’t worth deleting def

When my DEF guage gets to 1/4, I fill it so that has never happened to me.

Must be tough filming a video having the hiccups. What years were recalled?

I have been harassed by people to buy my 2001 ram 3500 with the 5.9 turbo cumming , I have had since new . I have kept it fresh and is in excellent shape . I have written offers of $30 K for it . Who would have ever thought you can sell a truck for twice what you paid 23 years ago . God bless America and our Quirky Invasive communist Government .

THIS is just ONE of the MANY recalls on the Ram, I have had 3 open recalls for the last 2 years because the dealers CANNOT get the needed parts to fix, now this newest one..... RAM is just not able to keep up, is it their fault, YES!!!!

It seems to me that someone could file a Freedom of Info Act and get the scoop.

Cummins and Ram have not done anything wrong whereas VW programed the vehicles to detect an emissions test and work properly while testing and run dirty the rest of the time!