What Does The Orthodox Church Believe About Faith, Grace And Works for Salvation? 

Woods KS: Once this virus thing isn't so bad, go to an Orthodox church and see and hear what we do and believe. If you are in Orange County, California, go visit my church, St. Barnabas Antiochian Orthodox Church in Costa Mesa. Most of us adults are converts. We like visitors. Look for me - I'm old and I wear glasses. You can sit with me, if you like.

@@richardmohr9428 I am from Louisiana. I already called a priest and am meeting with him Saturday, and will also attend Vespers after we meet. Thank you though!

@@Marsalis_CW I'm glad to hear that! When I was still an Evangelical (I attended the open Orthodox church in Harbin, China from early 1986 until mid-1989, when my wife and I were teaching English there) I read some things but I still looked at everything through my Fuller Seminary M.Div. filter. I would evaluate Orthodox beliefs with mine. There were things that I just couldn't understand. The last year we were there, a convert to Orthodoxy came to Harbin to teach English. After liturgy on Sundays, Timothy would very patiently talk with me. Boy, was he patient! Then one afternoon, I realized that I was looking at Orthodoxy with Protestant eyes. After that, things were easier for me to understand. True story! Allow Orthodoxy to explain itself and remember that there was a time when the Christian world was not the fragmented thing it is now. Also remember that enthusiasm should not be a litmus test for the truth.

Prayers for you... God bless you brother

Thought provoking. Thank you

You believe that the modern Catholic Church is in error ?

@@grey0966 While the Roman Catholic church has always been in error; sadly that gap has exponentially grown and has picked up speed in recent times.

@@frankherbert6476 are you orthodox Christian ?

@@frankherbert6476 “For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:11-15‬ If this isn’t purgatory, I’m not sure what it is. Perhaps you could explain

Richard Mohr Luther flirted with Orthodoxy, but politics won out. This is the unfortunate history of the West.

I was thinking just that. Why didn't Luther go east instead of starting a side project? Protestantism has created a do-it-yourself/do what you like christianity.

@@JoshAlicea1229 Communications were difficult back then. He did have correspondence with Constantinople but there was some mutual incomprehension. We Orthodox do not teach that works get you to heaven, unlike what was taught during the indulgence scandal that Luther found so appalling. I've told people that we regard faith and works as two hands clasped together. Why pull them apart? I'm no theologian, so don't quote me.

@Josh L How are you doing now? Have you watched any streaming Orthodox services during this COVID-19 time? If you haven't, take a look at the services for my church, St. Barnabas Antiochian Orthodox Church in Costa Mesa, California. Hear our sermons and tell em what you think.

@@TheRealRealOK yup, at least Martin Luther tried

The spiritual Philadelphia church is this church Jesus gave it open doer though its power is so little rev 3

​@@gechopt8659What¿ 🤔" ?

@@christianorthodoxy4769 Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Though they are persecuted but they kept Their belief in Jesus Christ theirs and our God... Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. It is Islam who worship the beast by the power of the dragon Satan him self so they accepted his black head mark (suna) for their submission of worship..Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: so his people fight no one listen, why?the Governor of this world is with Islam... as Jon teaches.... 1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. In spite of minor doctrinal deference i believe orthodoxy Christianity is the body of Christ and spiritual church of Philadelphia that is why so many of them burned looted slaughtered in every part of the world silently specially in Muslim countrys...

ds very well explained!

Paul does not make a three-way distinction. For him there's just works and faith, where works is keeping the law.

read the NT in koine-greek and you will see that there is such a three way distinction ;). Also you have pay attention to the context that's what often lacking in protestant interpretations

ds Paul does not make the distinction that you are making. It's just an attempt to add the sacramental system into salvation. You read Ephesians 2:10 as of it nullifies what was just said the prior verse. He just said said we are not saved by works. Being created to do works doesn't change that.

+Benjamin 1 We all believe that we are saved by God even though we do not deserve it. The problem is when these and other verses are taken out of context or are singled out. Sola gratia/sole fide as opposed to works is an artificial and false opposition; this is the kind of straw horse that is easy to knock down. And, I should say poor exegesis. It seems to me this understanding is based in part on a misreading of the Greek. The phrases ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον and ουκ εξ εργων ινα μη τις καυχησηται seem clearly parallel. The RSV destroys this parallelism. The KJV is better with εξ translated "of" in both places, but "that" instead of "this" for τουτο seems to imply "saved" as its antecedent, which is wrong. One reason I'm partial to reading ουκ εξ υμων as modifying της πιστεως is that then it seems ουκ εξ εργων would also be modifying της πιστεως, so we avoid the idea that works are the antithesis of faith.

Learning Christian we are not saved because of our good works but FOR good works. Salvation is cooperation with God to die daily and follow him. Paul said to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. To say salvation was one thing in the past contradicts Paul's statement that salvation must be worked out.

1st Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel for salvation and have faith in the blood of Christ Romans 3:25! Ephesians 1:13 KJV

Faith without works is dead. It's a lack of grace. It's only an opinion about God.

All sin is wilful

Good suggestion. Formally Orthodoxy holds to the biblical mystery of the trinity (There is One God yet in three hypostases of Father, Son and Spirit.) But it might be enjoyable to hear him explain it in modern vernacular.

What books did you read? My girlfriend is non-denominational and she thinks that so many practices of the Orthodox Church are heretical. She has the best of intentions in mind, but I think her dedication to "sola scriptura" keeps her from actually listening to me. I see so many Orthodox converts coming from the Protestant church that make the claim that Orthodoxy is the true, congruent expression of God's word. I'd like to find the tool that best demonstrates that to her so she'll approach my faith with a little more sympathy. Thank you!

@@bobby4116 Try Becoming Orthodox by Peter Gillquist.

@@bobby4116 Read The Orthodox Church by Kallistos Ware. That was an important book for me on my journey to Orthodoxy. I also suggest you take a look at: ww1.antiochian.org/content/scripture-and-tradition. There also is a booklet called An Eastern Orthodox Response to Evangelical Claims. That's a good one.

@@bobby4116 Also look at: ww1.antiochian.org/content/scripture-and-tradition

@@bobby4116 Take a look at: Assurance of Salvation / OrthoChristian.Com orthochristian.com › 88557

I am also a convert. Most of the adults at my church are converts, as are the clergy. For many of us it was a struggle to understand what the Church taught because we had first been Protestants and Protestants have their particular uses of vocabulary and approaches to things. I find it interesting that the biggest critics of Protestants on the internet are other Protestants. That is no accident.

As a protestant I couldn't agree with you more.

BK Shmocko: Would you mind expanding on that please?

@Brad Bowers You are right. In America, where Protestants dominated for so long, we have had a terrible apostasy, thanks to the bounties that capitalism offers and carnal pleasures that false morality offers. Just this morning I heard in the liturgy that it used to be taught that God's love leads to repentance. Now it is taught by so many that God's love makes repentance unnecessary.

@Brad Bowers his life was saved by Valeriu Gafencu "the saint of the prison". He was, and is orthodox.

Well, it wasn't hard until the 1500's! Please read: ww1.antiochian.org/content/scripture-and-tradition

Please read: Assurance of Salvation / OrthoChristian.Com orthochristian.com › 88557

you can ALWAYS receive Baptism.

Fr. Thomas Hopko of blessed memory once said that being obsessed with your salvation is idolatry. The important thing is to love God. That's what we should be doing. We love God in what we do. If we are faithful members of the Orthodox Church and do what we should do (that includes loving God!) then we won't worry about our salvation. In fact, salvation in Orthodox teaching means becoming more and more like God. It isn't just not going to Hell. Not going to Hell isn't as wonderful as having communion with God, is it? Go to the Salvation article at OrthodoxWiki.

What are you getting at?

Biblical Calvinistic preaching gives all glory to God for our salvation but at the same time challenges the hearers to believe and repent. The gospel demands response. Read the sermons of CH Spurgeon.

@@Tsumebleraar The Orthodox Church existed for fifteen centuries before the Reformation came along. Orthodoxy did not need a Reformation. The problems in the Western Church let the enormous civil war that began with rebellion against the Bishop of Rome and eventually included rebellion amongst Protestants with each other. Please read: ww1.antiochian.org/content/scripture-and-tradition

@@Tsumebleraar vous êtes français? Chrétien réformé?

Salvation is a gift, sanctification is more of His Grace, His Light, this is a process.

@@DaveBartosiewicz Yes, there's no need to climb to heaven on our merits. Ephesians 2:6

Guessing your Protestant? I acc lean more towards Protestantism even though I am non denominational but I’m interested in Orthodoxy theology. None of it matters though as only the Word of God has 100% and final authority, church father writings mean nothing if they don’t line up with the Bible. And as amazing as the church was, the bible has not been changed but the church fathers writings may have. Catholicism is proof of this, the Pope now basically agrees with EVERYTHING unbiblical hence why Protestantism even came into existence. But Orthodoxy I cannot speak on, I prefer to stay non denominational until God guides me to a ‘church’. For now as the bible states, I understand the Church to be the body of Christ aka anyone who is a born again believer of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour

@@sathsojourns Almost everyone agrees that Scripture is important. Interpretation is the issue. For example, some argue for eternal security; others argue that there is no such thing. They can't all be right, can they? There are self-defined Christians who insist that a man can marry another man and a woman can marry another woman. Others say this is false teaching. Who is right? There are those that insist that their beliefs and practices "line up with the Bible" even though they contradict Holy Tradition. Who should we follow, the Church Fathers or people today that follow themselves? I prefer the Fathers.

Come to the true church

penprop01 What it really says. “For by grace are ye saved. That of Christ. It is the gift of god

do you call your father by his first name?

Jesus said that if we did not eat His flesh and drink His blood there was no life in us. How do you interpret that? This is not an issue in the ancient Churches. Orthodox, Copts, Roman Catholics, Armenians, Syriacs all teach that the Eucharist is the body nd blood of our Saviour. Do you? Tell me this - if someone denies that Jesus is fully divine - is that person saved? Can a Unitarian or Oneness Pentecostal that "accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior" be saved, even if he denies the full divinity of Christ? If a Mormon "accepts Him," and continues the LDS heresies, is he or she saved?

Please read: Assurance of Salvation / OrthoChristian.Com orthochristian.com › 88557

The Bible itself was collected by the Orthodox Church and belongs to the Orthodox Church. The Bible was writen by the saints of the Orthodox Church, copied by the monks of the Orthodox Church and read publicly by the servants of the Orthodox Church from the begining of the Church untill today and untill the end of the world.

Did St. Paul refer to himself as St. Timothy's father in the faith?

Why at judgement day the Lord asks for works also mat.25:31_46

RenegadeMstrXboXLive Yes, just ignore James. Western “Christians” can’t shake dialectics. It’s not works vs faith, it’s both. Don’t cite Bible verses to Orthodox. The Orthodox Church gave you the Bible and you willfully misuse it.

@@TheRealRealOK Tell people to read here: Assurance of Salvation / OrthoChristian.Com orthochristian.com › 88557

Take a look at: Assurance of Salvation / OrthoChristian.Com orthochristian.com › 88557

In Bible says faith without works is dead. A dead faith brings death not salvation. Simple.

@@margelatutrandafirulgalben3156 justification through faith alone is not the same as dead faith. A true faith will produce works. James 2 is comparing a true faith with a false faith. It’s compared to telling someone to be warmed and filled who is in need but not actually helping them. Those words are empty and clearly not truly meant. A dead faith is not a true faith. James is telling us what true faith looks like.

@@terachad1231 James 2:18 (NASB) But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” James is trying to “show” what real faith looks like. He clearly distinguishes faith from works. They do not help save you or continue to save you. They are the fruit produced by true faith.

Why do you believe that Scripture is important? You were taught that, right? What was taught before there was Scripture? Holy Tradition. Not all tradition is Holy Tradition. What Jesus Christ taught his disciples, what they taught and what has been taught by the Fathers is Holy Tradition. When issues came up, the Holy Spirit, acting in the Church, led the Church in dealing with heresies. The Protestant world is full of contradictory traditions (eschatology and eternal security, anyone?) yet that hasn't been noticed apparently. The margin notes of the Schofield Bible are one of the traditions. There is as fundamental misunderstanding of the word "tradition" here.

@@richardmohr9428 I understand what you’re saying but Church tradition > Church doctrines, we aren’t Pharisees but adopted children of the Most High God and Father by the precious blood of Christ. God bless you, I only messaged you on this to speak of the importance of God’s Word over man’s culture even IF it originates from Christ. Because history shows heresies have been promoted in the church so we’ve gotta pray for discernment and guidance to find where our Lord actually wants us to go

@@sathsojourns The issue isn't Scripture. The issue is the interpretation. As soon as someone begins interpreting, s/he is assuming they are going about it in the right way and that God will lead them to the correct understanding. Go to any preacher's office and you'll see commentaries, lexicons, grammar books and so on. They are all there to guide the act of interpretation. However, individual study has resulted in a wide disarray of beliefs and interpretations. How is individual study superior to what the Church Fathers have taught for more than nineteen centuries? Your approach hasn't worked so well, has it? How many different Protestant bodies are there? The Methodists don't agree with each other, the Lutherans don't agree with each other, the Baptists don't agree with each other. The civil war in the Western Church still continues. Even Pentecostals that think they're getting an extra jolt of the Holy Spirit can't agree as to whether the traditional teaching about the Trinity is true or not. How many different versions of End Times stuff are there? You'd think that this wild diversity would make people a little hesitant about saying "me and my Bible is enough" but it's had the opposite effect. There are Christians that want other Christians to give money to elderly Jewish people but they have never cared about what Israel has done to Christian Arabs since 1948. Why is that? Ever talk with Christians whose families experienced the loss of home, land and possessions back then? There is an old saying, "Don't believe everything that you think." If all we needed was Scripture, there wouldn't be this variety of teachings, would there? Holy Tradition has been around to guide us since the very beginning. St. Paul was taught Holy Tradition when he was a catechumen. The New Testament didn't exist yet. The Apostles, the Seventy and others taught Holy Tradition and they expected Christians to accept what they taught. Creativity in doctrine was not encouraged. The United States has been fertile ground for heresy. Did you see that Creflo Dollar has told his followers to forget what he told them about tithing? All of a sudden, he has come to the conclusion that what he assumed before was mistaken. Now what he is assuming is correct, he says. The Watchtower Society has used the Bible to concoct their doctrines and its members know chapter and verse proofs. So? Start attending an Orthodox church and see what we do and teach. Read on the internet and elsewhere what we say about the relationship of the Bible and Holy Tradition. See ww1.antiochian.org/teachings-orthodox-church If you decide to remain a Protestant, see if you can reduce the number of traditions and teachings in your part of the religious world and get back to me in 20 years. I bet there will be further splits in Calvary Chapel, Vineyard and other groups. It's inevitable. Individual experience has been divinized in the West. Consequently, there is no room for any authority, apart from what one believes that Scripture teaches. If I say that Scripture is authoritative but I reach conclusions different from others who believe the same thing about Scripture - there is a problem with the methodology, isn't there? I remember hearing the term "Jell-O Jesus" at Forest Home many years ago. Protestants have improved on that. They have a "Jello-O Bible" that can say what they want it to say. What sort of authority is that? I'll take 1900+ years of Holy Tradition to those traditions that don't go back very far and to the testimonies of marquee ministers.

@@richardmohr9428 Appreciate the detailed response, don’t worry brother I have considered actually going to an Eastern Orthodoxy Church. I’m not here to call all these churches ‘heretical’ but to discern truth by the Holy Spirit who is God by nature and knows the thoughts and heart of the Father and Christ. As I said I’m non denominational but LEAN towards Protestantism and Orthodoxy. I admit I know too little about church history but I only rely on God’s Word, the church (not a denomination but the body of Christ) and the fellowship with the Holy Spirit. Jesus our Lord guided us in everything and I trust He will guide me to the right church and people so I’ll continue to pray on it and not make a rash decision until He answers. Thank you for your answer though, you are right that church fathers have given us sound doctrine so that we may not be misled but again the enemy attacks these churches and in all denominations including protestantism there are heresies and lies. But Christ is our Rock and He will guide us no matter what, if we remain in the truth God Almighty will continue to straighten our paths (Proverbs 3:5-6) and so I know if we walk in obedience to the Lord, He will reveal the necessary things He wants in our lives. God bless you, have a beautiful day and if I ever come back here I will let you know if anything changed. I pray for you and your family’s well being and that your relationship with Christ may strengthen in Jesus mighty name Amen.

@@sathsojourns Thank you! Church History is both interesting and discouraging at times. Imagine living in the second and third centuries when certain doctrines were still being worked on to deal with heresy. Origen got into trouble because he pushed ideas to their logical extremes. Nowadays it isn't necessary to do that but people still like to explore ideas and some people want to make an original contribution. You might track down "The Agony of Deceit" by Michael Horton to see the mistaken ideas that some TV evangelists have come up with. You might also read the Wikipedia page on Prelest. Prelest (from Russian: пре́лесть, tr. prélestʹ, IPA: [ˈprʲelʲɪsʲtʲ] (listen), itself from Russian: лесть, romanized: lestʹ, lit. 'charm, seduction, cajolery', IPA: [lʲesʲtʲ] (listen); Medieval Greek: πλάνη, romanized: pláni, lit. 'wandering astray; fallacy', IPA: [ˈpla.ni]), also known as spiritual delusion, spiritual deception, or spiritual illusion, is an Eastern Orthodox Christian term referring to a false spiritual state, a spiritual illness. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prelest When I finally understood that I was looking at Eastern Orthodoxy with Protestant eyes, I was free to let Orthodoxy speak for itself, instead of evaluating it based on my particular wing of the evangelical world. That made all the difference. Now I'm a member of a parish where almost all the adults are converts, St. Barnabas Antiochian Orthodox Church in Costa Mesa, California. Visit our website. I also suggest that you read what we teach and practice about the Eucharist. All the Ancient Churches teach that it really is the Body and Blood of our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ. The Nicene Creed does not make reference to it because it was accepted as that. In the liturgy at my church, just before communion, we say: "I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly Thine own pure Body and that this is truly Thine own precious Blood. Wherefore, I pray Thee, have mercy on me and forgive my transgressions, both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance, and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of Thine immaculate mysteries for the remission of sins and for live everlasting, amen. "Of Thy mystical supper O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant. For I will not speak of Thy mysteries to Thine enemies, neither will I give Thee a kiss as did Judas, but like the thief will I confess thee: 'Remember me O Lord in Thy Kingdom.' "Not unto judgement nor unto condemnation be my partaking of Thy Holy Mysteries, O Lord, but for the healing of soul and body. Amen." It isn't just a memorial. Look at 1 Corinthians 10:15, 16.

In that particular verse, St. Paul was referring to the works of the Mosaic Law, which are to no longer be conducted as works for salvation.

The law could never save you. It was always by grace through faith. Remember Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Right, the law could never save you. By grace through faith we are saved, but such faith is composed of works. The Book of James reinforces such an idea: *James **14:26* _"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."_ It is not a mere belief in God that would earn you eternal salvation.

EnglishOrthodox Chants-don`t pay attention to this heretics.He is probably protestant Christian from a church made 10 days ago

Please read: ww1.antiochian.org/content/scripture-and-tradition

And this 'father' is more of a 'mother' with that long feminine ponytail.

Acts 22:40 “Brothers and FATHERS, listen now to my defense.”

Did Paul refer to himself as a father when he wrote to Timothy? Take a look at An Eastern Orthodox Response to Evangelical Claims.

@@richardmohr9428 Notice how you're arguing against nothing but a verse from scripture? No personal opinion was given, just the verse, and you argue against it. Herein lies your problem.

@@dylankjv I didn't know that I had a problem. Thank you. One assumes that children call their paternal parent "Father" or some equivalent. If someone objects to calling a priest "Father," should they also object to someone calling someone "Teacher" or some other word of respect? I suspect that people object to calling a priest "Father" because they don't like the Roman Catholic Church and they prefer a democratized version where everyone is equal. If we take what Jesus said about calling someone "Father," what should we do when He said bout the necessity of eating His flesh and drinking his blood? Not literal? I need to point out that the Church Fathers have been Eucharistic. Are you?

True. Orthodoxy teaches that we cannot earn our Salvation, just as you are emphasizing. They believe like St Paul said: Salvation is carried out by Christ working in and through us many good things HE HAS PREPARED to transform us and the world. (e.g., Eph 2:4-10; Phil 1&2, Romans 8). Salvation is thus much bigger work of God than just us our individual part of it.

+Gmama 10 Salvation depends on whether you bear fruit. Every tree that does not produce fruit is cut down out of the Vine, Jesus Christ. If you live according to the flesh, Hell. If you put to death deeds of the flesh by the Spirit, you will live eternally. To those who do good till the end, He will give eternal life. Scripture is too clear for Protestant heresies not to be taken as a joke. It is God who work sin us both to do and to will according to His good pleasure. Heaven is the crown for which we all run and fight. But that doesn't mean Christ gives us eternal life because of that, but because He gave Himself as our ransom-the good works are letting Christ continue to flow in you from baptism onward.

Ave Christus Rex the their on the cross is in heaven. Faith and faith alone is how you get to heaven

Ave Christus Rex theif

Ave Christus Rex thief lol

Orthodox Christians are not antisemitists and they have proven that during WWII when they were hiding Jews with risk of their lives. Do you know what did the Christian Bishop of the Greek island of Zakynthos do when the Germans ordered him to give them a list with the names of all Jews of the island? After he had secured the Jews with providing them false papers showing them as Christians, he gave to the German officer a piece of paper with his own name written on it! As for the execution of Jesus Christ, it is a fact that the Jewish priesthood convinced the crowd to ask for it. When the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate washed his hands in the sight of the people, saying "I am innocent of the blood of this just man. See to it yourselves" the entire people responded by saying, "may his blood be upon us and upon our children" [Matthew 27:24-25]. I don't say this so as to justify any percecution against the Jews, but only for the restoration of truth. After all, despite God's plan for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, those who led things to that are not without their own responsibility. Or in the words of Jesus Christ "indeed, the Son of man goes, just as it has been written about him. But woe to that man by whom the Son of man will be betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had not been born" [Matthew 26:24].

@@orthoglobus The Orthodox Bishop of Athens during the war arranged for baptismal certificates for Jews. Perhaps two-thirds of Jews in Athens were saved as as result. Shall we review what Martin Luther had to say about Jews in the last part of his life? Perhaps we can also review the antisemitism practiced in the Protestant-dominated United States, as well as the racism in the Fundamentalist South for many decades. We can find evil everywhere.

@John Johnson The roman-catholics and protestants have astrayed from truth in quite many issues, so I am not surprised that the did so also as per the role of the Jews in the condemnation of Christ.

@John Johnson Yet Matthew 27:9 and 27:25 speak about the Jewish people. At least for those who didn't repent for their crime.

@John Johnson Christ offered forgiveness to everyone while on the cross, however not everyone accept that forgiveness since not everyone repented for that crime. That's why when the Jews realized their guilt after St. Peter's preaching on Pentecost and they asked him "what should we do" he replied to them that they should first repent and the be baptized [Acts 2:37-38]. He didn't just say "there is no problem, Jesus has forgiven you". This is to say that forgiveness in order to be "activated" for someone needs his repentance as well. And the majority of the Jews hasn't repented until today. I don't mean with all these that Jews should in any way be hated or persecuted for what their ancestors did 2000 years ago, but I just want to clarify the historic truth about their role in Christ's crucifixion.

So is the whole church. We all knew this. Is this a bad thing to you?

Synergy? Yes, it's from the devil. It's another gospel. It's not what the Bible teaches.

I am a convert to the Eastern Orthodox Church. Almost all the adults at my church are converts. Go to an Eastern Orthodox website, such as Journey to Orthodoxy, Finding the True Faith, The Preachers Institute , the websites for the Orthodox Church in America and the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese, and see what we have to say about ourselves. You can also go to OthodoxWiki and read what is there. Be like the Bereans - don't just take my word or someone else's for the above.

Yes, Eastern Orthodoxy is catnip for middle aged Protestants who crave smells and bells. You won't find many kids, and if it weren't for the influx of Protestants, EO in America would have been moribund years ago. (My opinion.) But yes, be like the Bereans! Open the word and set the Bible and Orthodoxy side by side. Look at Mary in both. Look for a special category of "saints". Look for prayer to dead saints. Look for icons. Paul was out on the public square street preaching everywhere he went. Look for that in Orthodoxy. The jailer ask Paul what he had to do to be saved (Acts 16:30). Paul gave an answer (Acts 16:31). See if the answer is the same as what they say in the Orthodox church.

+bowrudder I'm an 18 year old convert actually, but most converts are usually older folks that got an interest in church history and ancient Christianity. Not so much "smells and bells", rather reading and study.

@@ron_grimes explain what it is then? Since you know so well. Fact: Salvation is God stepping down from heaven, paying the full penalty for our sins, and offering up his justification as a free gift to anyone that believes on him, as stated dozens of times. If you think it is anything less than fully achieved by Christ you’ll burn in hell for all eternity. Then it won’t really matter what you think will it? Think about any other notion… you are sinner who could not save yourself… so Christ stepped out of heaven to save you… so if you could not be a sinner, then you can save yourself. Make sense? No, it is a stupid notion. If you could simply not be a sinner, then there is no cause for salvation. You better get right now, because otherwise you’ll have an eternity of roasting to think on it.

@@ron_grimes Hahaha! Then where does the smoke of their torment ascend up from? Bible says, hellfire, it says the lake of fire is the second death; yet, braindead person on internet says there is no literal fire. Hmm, who do I believe? Maybe there is no literal heaven, i mean all we have is dozens of verses saying there is, less than talk about hellfire. Maybe theres no literal words of God. Maybe there is no literal Jesus. I mean who cares anyway, since I have to listen to every idiot with an interpretation on the internet. We’ll see genius, if God was lying or not.

@@ron_grimes Yeah, well re-translate every other fire in the Bible. You don’t speak Hebrew, no one does, they all speak the new language made up by Elizer Ben Yahuda where modern translators reinterpret every word to play the same “hath God said” nonsense that your father the devil has been playing from the beginning. Fire don’t really mean fire, it means anger, or burning of the nose. Why you think God said smoke then, genius. The smoke of their torment ascended up forever and ever, guess that smoke is coming from their burning nose. Day isn’t really day, in the Hebrew it means era. Why did he say evening and morning then, genius. The evening and the morning is the first era. I hear examples like this every single day of some devil telling me why I should believe them and not the Bible. He said smoke to let you know it is a literal fire because God saw you people coming from the beginning and provided the context. He cast them in a lake of burning noses? A lake of anger maybe? All absurd. You are about your father the devils business, reinterpreting scripture constantly to fit your modern lies. Why you think the world is so corrupt nowadays? God is allowing you people to have the corruption you reap. I literally cannot wait for God to prove you a liar like your father, the devil. King James, fire, Bishops Bible, Fire, Geneva Bible, fire, every common mans Bible as far back as recorded history, its fire. Yet, some genius who don’t want people to fear hell, which is designed to be feared, has decided all the translators before them know nothing, only the modern scholars have it right. 54 men who knew more about language than YOU will EVER know, one so well versed in over 20 languages it is said any of them could have been his common tongue, ALL said the Bishops Bible was CORRECT in translating it as fire, but Ron Grimes the dirty grimy liar on youtube says otherwise. I don’t sway with every wind of doctrine. you should grow a brain and some roots as well.

The Orthodox do not have systematic theology labels like you are using, but they still believe in "justification". A popular "justification" passage is Ephesians 2:4-10. What does Paul call this however? Salvation. Yes, they believe salvation in faith by nothing we can do to earn it. A "sanctification" passage is Phillipians 1 & 2. Jesus has begun a good work in us, and will see it through. He is referred to in the Greek active voice. Yet Paul says we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". This uses the Greek passive voice. So we must participate with what Jesus is doing through us with commitment and soberness. However Paul does not call this "sanctification". Read it again: he calls it salvation. Both of these passages use two forms of the same Greek root word for "salvation". So there is nothing wrong with Protestants, who want to keep the "order" of this process more clear in their minds, have used these theological labels. But we are quite arrogant if we presume to cast judgement on Orthodox (and Paul) for calling this whole process salvation. The Orthodox choose to use the words as Paul used them. That doesn't mean they don't believe biblically. They still give all credit to God and His Graciousness. And if you think they are just "earning" salvation" then you are choosing not to listen-nor read your own Bible.

Not sure about labels or "systematic theology' but the gentleman in the video pretty much said the opposite of salvation by grace through faith which is unearned by our merits. He said "Christ knocks on the door but we have to open it". If he means us opening it IS our faith then I'd agree. But I don't think he is because he said "we must endure to the end". And he said "God can't do it without us".

"we must endure to the end" . this are not only the words of the priest but of Jesus our Saviour and God...

And totally ignoring the words of Apostle James about salvation is not very nice. I will quote here "ds" comment of how we should understand Apostle Paul's undersanding of slavation: "St. Paul’s whole point is that the Galatian Christians had begun to practice Jewish customs like circumcision - not that they were overly ethical, something which St. Paul requires as intrinsic to the Christian life (Galatians 5:16-6:10). Overall, in his letters, St. Paul seems to distinguish three kinds of works: 1.) works of the flesh, that is, sinful attitudes and deeds (Galatians 5:19; Romans 13:12; 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11);2.) works of the Law, that is, the ritual injunctions of the Mosaic Law like circumcision that are no longer necessary for salvation (Galatians 2:3, 12- 16; 4:10; 5:2); ¨3.) good works, that is, moral and ethical deeds (Romans 2:16, 21-26; Galatians 6: 7-10) on the basis of which Christians - and all people - will be judged by God (1 Corinthians 6: 9-10; Galatians 5:21; 2 Corinthians 5:10). Thus, Paul’s contrast between faith and works fundamentally concerns faith in Christ and specifically what he calls “works of the Law,” namely the ritual law of the Old Testament, not the moral commandments of the Old Testament which remain valid and are fulfilled by Christ. Still, salvation is indeed “by grace…through faith” in Christ and it is a “gift of God”. Faith in Christ and good works are integrated, not contrasted - much less opposed to one another - by St. Paul who everywhere exhorts and demands moral and ethical obedience to God as a necessary component of the Gospel. Paul teaches not only justification by faith but also judgment by the criterion of good works. Do Orthodox Christians believe that we’re saved by grace through faith? Yes, of course we do! St. Paul says so in his Letter to the Ephesians 2:4, 8-9. But we do not separate faith and works. Notice that even here, where St. Paul says that we are “saved by grace,” he goes on to say that “we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works.” As is so often the case, we need to read the rest of the passage."

Sounds complicated. How would you interpret Romans 4:3-5.

Odyc Mboden I think he means God won't force himself into your life.

paul had could say still no to Jesus after the vision of Jesus. Thats freedom

That's absolutely false. Look at Paul for example. God is sovereign and needs no ones permission to do whatever His holy will pleases.

Really? Where in the text does it say that???? Nice made up theology there.

Phillipians chapters 1& 2 cite this cooperation with God's Work explicitly. Paul uses the active Greek voice to speak of the good work that Jesus is seeing through to fruition in us. He uses the passive Greek voice to issue the command for us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Of course you just have to believe and to trust in Christ, but you can at the same time beat everyday your children, to cheat everyday your wife and to kill weekly black people, and to have sexual intercourse with animals - and you will be saved. It's so easy. Let's just have such a faith and the world will be full of harmony. Forgive me for my irony.

A born again Christian, with the Spirit of God in him, can not sin again, he is not able to sin, the sin will die off with the flesh, but the NEW person is blameless, even if the old person walks in sin. A born again Christian that is not obedient, will be punished by God. So it is not a wise choice to walk in sin. But this has no influence on salvation. Beat your wife and kids, cheat, kill and sleep with beasts, and a child of God will be struck with punished. The smallest little faith (that means, to truly trust in the work and promises of God through Christ) will guarantee the salvation of the person. Such a faith will save. Or do you need an exposition of James 2?

Good point свои! So you Born again Christian never sinned again?! 1 John 1:8:If we say that we have no sin, the truth is not in us. свои got you! For sure you can Not kill everyday people and little children and to believe in Jesus and to be saved. That's absurd. A God who has such an understanding of salvation you may find in a Hollywood movie or Comic, but not in the Holy Bible.

You completely do not understand the teachings of Scripture, maybe because you never actually looked at it. That's why you are misrepresenting our position. A born again consists of 2 persons. The old person of sin and the new person born in new life. The old will sin, but the new will not sin, and can not sin. The sins of the old person, does not affect the new person The old will die off And the new person has everlasting life, and it will not die. No sin of the believer can defile the new man.

Christian Offensive let's be real: Protestant biblicism has not brought certain dogmas and unity in every possible way either. In fact outside the central creed of faith we are exponentially more fractured than Orthodoxy-- and frankly we look more divided to an unbelieving world than loving and united. So I say let's not give Orthodoxy grief for the autocephalous way in which the churches were apostolically organized from the get-go.