#dnd #dungeonsanddragons #dm Why is Gold in D&D worthless now, and what can we do about it? My Discord Link: / discord Patreon Link: www.patreon.co... Twitter: / nofunallowed4
"Magic shops remove the magic of magic" is painfully true. I have players that were raised on video game magic shops. They think a shop is worthless if it doesn't have leveled-up magic items just waiting for them on the shelves.
They'd hate my games then. There are no magic items in any shops! Maybe a random potion or scroll if they can find a black market seller. If they want to "buy" a magic item, they gotta do a quest for an old wizard or a dragon to even get the opportunity.
But who says magic has to begin and end with explicit mechanical benefit? Who says that you're setting can't be a bit magical in and of itself (or numinous, if you're a nerd)? Case in point: Middle Earth. Bad Luck Chuck after three tours in Iraq could count the number of magic items in The Lord of the Rings on one hand with digits of spare, and yet Stevie Wonder could see the magic implied in the setting on every page. In short, magic in a fantasy setting is only as mundane as you make it.
I'm started a campaign with Saltmarsh, and the PCs kept the Sea Ghost for themselves. But it costs them 20gp a day to crew and dock it. That doesn't sound like a lot, but a month of downtime drains 600gp.
I love when we’re given a list of expensive things we can save up for like when building a stronghold, you can have a keep or barracks or moat and each has its own price to strive for
In my 3rd edition games my players' characters had a stronghold and would commission magic items from shops. High level wizards were needed to make magic items. So there was still quite a bit of magic in magic shops. The players also hired soldiers and staff for their stronghold. Even with all these experiences, the player characters still had wealth beyond reason. The recommended treasure from the tables in the Dungeon Master's Guide seemed to be too much. It still does in 5e. Although the stronghold and employees for said stronghold are still a significant portion of the gold the players get. Especially when they start equipping every guard with +1 weapons and armor.
Trading magic items you find in a dungeon might be better than just finding gold this happened in my last session we looted some spell books from a crazed wizard but because we don't have a wizard we traded them for magic items the spell books had high level spells in them from level 1 spells to level 8 spells so we got some very cool stuff from the trade I got a Ollamh harp I am playing as a sorcerer bard so I am happy with the magic item I got :)
My last campaign the players killed a wealthy merchant and got a hold of an obscene amount of gold. They bought items they wanted, then were like "now what?". They eventually bought an island off the coast of salt marsh where they built a theater, a port, and a house for the party. It was interesting running basically a whole session haggling real estate property, contractor agreements, and the multitude of vendors they had to contact for all the materials they needed.
For 1st tier, I gave my player a "company credit card" they could use for their expenses. Really it was just a way for them to be able to RP their jobs. If they abused it, I was going to have their NPC boss do an audit, but they never did. It was quite hilarious when, for story purposes at 2nd tier, I took it away and they actually had to start caring about gold and the costs of things. They were new players so I didn't want to burden us with survival/logistic mechanics when they were still learning the game. Now that they are more comfortable with their characters, this added mechanic is less of a burden and more for flavor than anything. I also only have 1 magic shop in the whole game (excluding alchemy shops), at a magic school so it makes sense. Completely agree that magic shops shouldn't be starbucks.
how to make gold matter? 1: Ditch milestone and make them spend gold on xp. 2: Make clerics, druids, and paladins prepare spells in a similar way to wizards (ie shorter list comprised of spells from their class list that they need to spend gold to add spells to) 3: When they find a magic item have them "buy' the item off the party. 4: If using 1 tell them that the adventures will be as tough as the adventures are and that their level won't factor in, if they're a higher level they'll have an easier time but if they're a lower level they'll get more gold relative to their level. 5: Give them the option to spend gold to increase and ability score, limit it to a plus 1 and have them pay like 50gp times the ability score after the increase. 6: Let them spend gold on getting feats, say 500gp per total number of feats they have. 7: Gain proficiency in a new skill or tool or language, 100gp per total number of skills/tools they have.
Or my campaigns the main drive for gold were ability unlocks. Every time a character leveled I would give them the standard attribute and Hit point increase. But if you wanted to improve the skills you didn't use that session; or you wanted that new spell or ability? Well, you had to go back into town and spend gold to learn it from a from a master. Warlock wants that sweet new perk? Well that requires a ritual and rituals require materials .. materials need money. Priest wants a spell? Prove your devotion with labor and gold. Goddess of magick? Commission spellbooks and donate them to schools/guilds. That kind of thing. Gives players incentives to join organizations and open up shops and invest.
I really like this video but I also like no gold and magic items being currency. WBTW used this and not having to manage any gold with players was so nice as a DM
Personally, I actually like having "shops" with magic items. For me, magic shops lets the players build and express their characters! It also becomes a sink for them to spend gold on and motivate and reward them for adventuring. Also, ut gives me opportunities to naturally fit in some reoccurring characters in the shop, as well world build the surrounding city, administration and bureaucracy. Of course, stuff like that is setting dependent, but my games tend to be set in very high magic setting, were stuff like magic item auction houses and magic item shops makes sense.
Nah. Fiddling around with gold pieces and shopping trips (aaaw, those are booooring!!) is like doing your taxes for fun. I just abstract it with a dynamic group wealth stat, to determine what they can afford. Within their wealth spectrum, the party just can have the gear they want. I even let them have the Blades in the Dark mechanic, to add a needed minor item to their inventory once per session during adventuring. Equal or beyond their wealth level, one of them can roll deception to determine the hit on their wealth stat. That leaves more time for important stuff like storytelling, exploration, and combat.
Gold can be spent on training, other downtime activities, acquiring strongholds/businesses/etc and of course purchasing magic items outright or having them created. There are rules for all of this in 5e. That people don't use them isn't a design flaw, it is a DM flaw as it is their job to present said opportunities for the wealth their Players acquire. Of course, the new Bastion system is more in-depth than the general stuff in the DMG about strongholds and the like but it is there. And an aside about magic item shops. If you are of the mind they can't be bought then of course you run into gold problems as they are the easiest money sink in the game. Though honestly, there is no good reason to not have them. They don't take the magic out of magic items, they reinforce just how magical the world is. Though if you decide to have them available on every corner of every street like a Starbucks, yes, you will devalue magic items but then that is a problem you are creating for yourself as magic item shops should have their rarity and inventory dictated by the settlement you are in. So a big city would have a greater and wider selection whereas a town might have the big ticket item be a +1 weapon or suit of armor. In a world of fantasy, having no shops that sell magic items would be highly illogical to the point of breaking verisimilitude. And only might make sense in a low fantasy world, which D&D almost never is. But if it is a choice you make as a DM to not have them then you really can't lament at gold being so underutilized as you are purposely underutilizing them along with all the other means of spending money as already described.
i always have some kind of magic shop in my campagnes. but i mostly roll for their inventory so they might find something interesting or maybe notso much (i always have stuff they can use but may not want to spend lots of money on it). but most items they earn through defeating enemies
Players in my game just want to have a narrative that is satisfying and to come out with cool stories of killing monsters. Personally though, I love playing a game where I have to do things like pay for meals, get parts of armor replaced, and even pay taxes to enter town! Getting followers, better clothes, and having a character finally afford that super fancy steak dinner is really satisfying to me.
You're are my kind of people. I'm about six months out of starting an online GURPS Fantasy that's like this. I'm going online with it so I can get the kind of players that are into it. My current players don't care about anything but the action.
I have a lot of complaints about 5th Edition but honestly one of my biggest problems is having the magic items being so bad and not having exact prices. It is exciting to acquire gold so characters can save up for that magic item they really want so badly. This idea of "not liking magic shops" honestly seems super weird and alien to me. DMs can still give legendary items to characters that would never be in shops and have way different effects from anything they could buy. By the way, I listened to this video as I am working on a magic shop for my player's next session LOL
Give XP for gold _spent._ Then offer houses and fancy armor and whatnot for sale. Living a high-status lifestyle has benefits. The baron doesn't hire Joe Blow & Pals to rescue his daughter. Also let them donate gold to the church and get a vision of where to find the magic item they want.
Cogent Roleplay, Open Legend RPG, and I think the Cthulhu games have a wealth stat representing your purchasing power. The goal of such a stat is usually explained as a way to simplify bookkeeping and allow the players to focus on what's important or fun. That said, I like the idea of making gold a major part of the game, but I DO NOT like broken ass economies. In D&D 5e for instance, a chicken costs 2cp but 1 days rations cost 5sp and a "squalid meal" costs 3 cp. Make it make sense! I also do not like tracking different types of coins and converting the types of coins.
I think gold does have its place, and it is especially important for all the things you mentioned and make them matter, but this is also a preference and taste. In session zero, you need to be able to sell your players how acquiring gold makes the game better and they need to buy into that. Otherwise, the game turns into handouts which sadly seems to be standard in modern games. My taste is still in the classic & OSR vein. In, my game the players currently have to find/hunt for items and also make purchases. I'm currently going to try and add a gambling element to see if the players like that since a player mentioned he liked poker.
Gold is actually important in my campaign, because most of the time my players are basically hobos scraping for coins or have to spend it on something narrative/character related.
I use.survival mode mechanics (meaning they are buying ammunition and food this is best exemplified by the gunslingeras she is the only ine that has to frequently conserve ammunition of her downright awesome rifle. And when shes low. Theres onky a few places in Vurse if strahd that sell ammunition and play in settings where i reduce the option to buy magic items. Such as in curse if strahd there is only one magic shop owned by. A hag. But ahe doesn't have every magic item. I jave a small list of what she sells. Which is pretty limited. Or i play in the grimhollow world of etharis. 1 country HEAVILY restricts the use of magic and therefore theres no legal magic shops. One country outright arrests any form of arcane magic on sight. Make gold greeat again
Gold went away because xp went away, xp went away because (and I hate to say this) a lot of current DMs are either a bit lazy and prefer an easier system or don't know how to handle more complex systems.
Sorry, but this is an DM Problem. Yes, it can be difficult, but when the DM knows what he is doing, than Gold can still have a lot of value. Examples. 1. NOT Ignoring the rules for Spellcasting and learning spells for Wizards. 2nd. Not giving away way too much gold. Yes it should be Rewarding, but it is still Gold. A lvl3 Party doing a 3 days Quest medium difficulty.. yeah 30 Gold per person is fine. 3rd. Invent some useful but not overpowered Items for sale. Especially on use is nice. Like +2AC Potion (for 3 Turns), Alchemists Fire, Poisons or Scrolls. A lot of theese actually exist already. You can even create an Entchantments store which sells 1 week long entchantments. And why shouldnt Mercenaries still exist? And even if you want to give them something Permanent, you can make it Situational or just interesting, but not neccessarly Powerful. 4th. That Goldissue normally only applies to highlvl Parties. If you have a low-lvl Party, than that shouldnt be the Case. The Party I DM is lvl6 now. At least 30 Sessions in (6hrs each) and they had like 200 gold each and just about one +1 Item. Powerwise. They felt rewarded from lvl1 onwards, found a lot of Things they liked, like the Cloak of useful Things, or the Cane of the Veteran. Sometimes a scroll or Potion... And really so far, I dont see any Trouble making them loose their Gold. Literally 2 Sessions ago, they paid pretty much all they had to convince a Dragon into helping them. And it worked. Really, just think about what you are doing, give them difficult Situations and it should work out. And getting rich in Highlvls... i really dont see that as an Issue. When you have the Power to face Gods and Kill Dragons, you desyerve to get rich too.
