Ugh going through this at the moment, there's a 10m road reserve between our neighbours property and ours and they refuse to accept and acknowledge that because of the existing road positioning traversing accross the road reserve into our land and into her land also. We are getting it surveyed and awaiting the chaos and damage that's going to come afterwards. Such a shame that people don't understand how it works!
Around where I live, it's hilly and our bedrock is monolithic but weak sandstone. The rock wears underground in dome(ish) shapes, covered with sand, then soil on top. The sand and soil slowly moves downhill, with the topsoil sliding down faster than the stuff down closer to the rock. A pin at the crest of a hill will usually be where you expect if shooting up from the valley or a pass, but corners on the sides will have moved radially downhill. I found one once that was four feet directly below where it should have been and the LS tag was on the DOWNHILL end. Over the decades, it had flipped. Life is a mystery.
Very interesting! I would hope that the knowledge of this would make neighbors more empathetic and also the surveyors more willing to help relocate them if they set it originally.
@@lloydlandsurveying8124 We did relocate that slid & flipped "found corner", to match all the stationary ones that we found on the ridge and in the saddle. That's a lot easier than trying to educate the flatlanders at the county surveyors office.
There is a dispute going on in the east in one area due to two different starting points, seems someone did something wrong way back when so now it is up to a judge to decide.
Thanks for your comment. This is a common cause of disagreement and dispute. Often times, legal descriptions are written commencing from opposing corners and the description assumes a perfect mile section (or portion thereof) and in reality, that "mile" may not measure out and result in gaps and overlaps. Most states (like Oklahoma) resolve the discrepancy and avoid lawsuits by a simple law that allows that the description that is created and filed first supersedes any others. The principle is "you cannot sell what you do not own". A good boundary survey will often bring these issues to light.
Ooh surveyors hate this. They don’t have time to go to court for is this. My neighbor across the street had this issue. They paid for a good survey. They found there are two different property lines both registered with the county. The property remains empty and the city has to mow it. At my current home we found the cable tv guys removed a property corner. There now is a telephone post (gray metal thing about 3 ft high) where the marker should be.
This happened to me except there weren't two separate property lines. And it was a "connection box" instead of a post. It was the "opinion" of the cable company that they were on the easement and I was simply wrong about my property lines. So I hired a surveyor and it turned out their box was right on top of where my corner stob had been. We went back and forth for 10 months before I finally hired a lawyer And he had it settled in less than a week. They were not happy but came out and removed their box as well as over 250' of underground cable that was also under my property, plus they paid for my survey and my lawyer. Then the surveyor came back out and re-set my corner for no charge. By the way, my surveyor had originally marked my corner on top of their box with a Magic Marker (small dot). And then set 2 "witness markers" on both propety lines, each approximately 3' from the corner. Then came back to reset the corner once the dispute was settled and the box was removed. Sometimes being a property owner can be a royal pain in the butt.
Regardless as to the licensing ,honesty, and knowledge of professional surveyors, the legal boundaries of ones property arent dependent on any of that. Every property has a deed, which is recorded in the county offices. And every deed contains a legal description of that particular property. Even if you lose your deed for any reason, an exact copy can be obtained from the county offices. This is how surveyors obtain the information they need for surveying property. The legal description describes by measurement, as well as direction, in latitude and longitude terms all sides of the property. What the deed says is what you own, regardless as to what others might say, and regardless as to who they are. In some cases, where a lot is located within a large subdivision of homes, the deed description might refer to a ( Subdivision plan of record ) for exact information of the lots within that subdivision. That plan will also be recorded in the county offices and be available for viewing by the public. But non the less, nothing would change as for the exact boundary line locations of your property. Today with GPS surveying methods, locating exact property lines has never been easier. With the proper equipment, it requires an experienced one man crew.
Thanks for the comment. I'd like to offer some thoughts. What the deed says is not always what you own. Legal boundaries are dependent on multiple things in addition to the written deed description; physical monuments, adjoining boundaries, chain of title, judges decisions, statutory occupation, etc. I do think there needs to be a distinction made between the legal boundary on paper and the legal boundary on the ground. Deeds can have poorly written descriptions or even clearly written descriptions that may in fact not accurately reflect what can be conveyed. In Oklahoma anyone can write a legal description and this is problematic and we see title problems every week with folk's deed descriptions. Legal boundaries as recorded on paper are also often dependent upon a professional opinion... BUT where that legal boundary is on the surface of the earth is is definitely dependent on a professional opinion. That legal description's location on the ground is usually dependent upon physical monuments (even when they do not match the deed distances exactly) and the professional opinion of the surveyor in the case of boundary corners not yet monumented. And even then, as often happens, if the deed line (according to any opinion) does not match the old existing fences, a judge may just overwrite the deed description and grant the neighbor the ground over to the fence. This is common and called adverse possession. I love my GPS unit. When I started, my job was machete and chainsaw cutting line! GPS is one of the BEST tools out there, but it is still a tool. In the hands of an inexperienced or incompetent person, it will not help. Even with the best surveyors, it is a tool that is still used to help them determine their opinion about the ground measurements. GPS will not tell you that this corner monument is the correct one or that the original owner sold more land before you got yours and he couldn't deed you the entire 40 acres like your deed calls for. Even your boss who told you to start at this monument may have messed up. We all have. See? Experienced GPS crews can make exact measurements, but locating exact property lines on the ground is not only reading a deed description... a professional opinion is required. Thanks!
I would disagree with you with regard to a judge using adverse possession law to rewrite a legal description of a property. Im not saying that some judge wouldnt do that, but it wouldnt hold up if it were challenged. If the fence had been there for the required amount of time for the adverse possession law to apply, then that would be a different matter of coarse. But no judge can just unilaterally use that law to settle boundary issues.
@@ernieforrest7218 Of course I am not an attorney, but I do listen carefully to my attorney friends. I didn't mean to imply the judge can "rewrite a legal description". That is not how it works. I meant that a judge can award a land owner a portion of an existing description (that they do not own on paper) over to a aversely possessed boundary, such as a fence, road, creek, etc. The judge (or court) can unilaterally end a debate between neighbors by transferring legal ownership and define a legal boundary between them such as an old existing fence IF (like you said) the specific criteria are met in the situation. Thanks for the comment.
We had a dike system put in through our property. At that time the boundary pins were lost. Now we don't know where the corners are on the property. Shouldn't the contractors have placed them back again? There's also a big difference in the city web site of our boundary lines compared to when we bought the property and the surveys for this dike. Now it appears small buildings are over the boundary lines on a few of us in the neighborhood. How do we proceed and see where our boundary lines are according to the legal description when we purchased this property? It shouldn't have changed at any time.
Thank for the comment. The contractors should not be replacing corners, rather should try to protect them. Sometimes they cannot protect them. You should get a licensed surveyor to remark the line. More than likely, they will be able to measure from your other undisturbed corners and mark the line. Good luck!
Thanks for the comment. Sometimes you can. Ask if there is a recent survey and determine if you can locate the corners. Also, you can also just be satisfied even if the fences turn out to not be on the deed lines. To some folks, a couple feet here or there does not matter. The value of a survey is really peace of mind in knowing how the physical evidence of the boundaries (fences, roads, tree lines, etc.) relate to what your deed says you are entitled to. Good question.
Online and map tools are only geographical overlays and rarely depict precise locations, even by several feet. If the marker was placed by a licensed surveyor, it's probably right. If you don't believe it's correct, the only legal way to resolve the issue is to pay a state licensed surveyor to locate the corner. Also consider having them install a monument to avoid future ambiguity.
Hey @BlazeDrumArtist Thanks for the comment. @timberhitchllc is correct. The GIS maps provided by nearly all government entities are just approximate and are used to show the relationship of the parcels. Those lines are derived by starting at an origin point that is sometimes hundreds of miles from the subject parcel and then scaled up. By the time you reach your area, the lines will never match the physical monuments on the ground... which is what the surveyor is measuring. It does confuse a lot of people and causes problems when people who take these maps/lines as the gospel and start improving property by them! Good question.
@@lloydlandsurveying8124luckily we still have a few of the original rebar stakes because some jackass is trying to pull some crap seems like he might have pulled out one of them but I know where they are so I’m gonna be watching him anywhere near em
Thanks for the comment. Most people will agree to the surveyor's professional opinion, even when it does not benefit them. Surveyor's are educated and specifically trained to survey boundaries, determine boundary evidence and research boundary deeds. Even after years and years of experience, it is still a 'professional opinion' that most people in the legal world recognize.
Buddy I’m currently dealing with some dipstick ignoring the original state marker and trying to claim 4ft of my father’s property on our side of the fence even though the fence is already on our side
Hello sir, I am a topographer, I have 10 years of experience in topography and construction (training in Arabic and French). I am looking for a job in the field. (I'm new to the US and I don't speak English Hello sir, I am a topographer, I have 10 years of experience in topography and construction (training in Arabic and French). I am looking for a job in the field. (I'm new to the US (NYC)and I don't speak English well)
Ha Corrupt survers excist Neighbor hired one that put the property line a foot over City used that survey to issue a building permit Dad didn’t notice until a rv garage went up and he knew it was wrong By the time he could get the city out the building was up so the city gave it a waiver Neighbor knew what he was doing No one got in trouble
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure some surveyor's have ethical failures as does every profession, but I'm thankful that the guys in my area are trustworthy.
