What If.. Jamie Lannister was never freed by Catelyn? 

I just realized Tyrion would not have been released, so he would likely have been executed and Tywin would be alive!

Robb should've offered Mace the iron throne or at least offer it to some powerful house for an easy alliance. It's an offer almost any house would take.

Cat released Jaime because Lord Carstark was wanting to kill Jaime, Robb wasn't there and the men were drunk and fighting amongst themselves, Brienne and Cat discuss the possiblilty of Jaime not lasting the night so she releases him in order to save her girls. Robb Stark was his own undoing by not marrying Frey's daughter

Tywin would have never arrested Tyrion if Jaime was still imprisoned. Neither would have Tyrion escaped with Jaime not being there

Why nobody ever points out how stupid was for Cat to bring Tyrion to the Vale ,instead of keeping him as hostage

What if Tyrion was captured at whispering wood instead of Jaime?

I know that its essentially the politcking that does the 3 kings in, but I thought Melisandre's magic definitely counted for something? Maybe it happens in a different way but shouldnt Robb be killed off in the spell at that time too ?

I could see a 2nd battle of the trident with the starks, tulley's, and Stannis one one side, vs the Lannister/Tyrell army on the other in season 5. Vale army, with Littlefinger and Sansa turns the tide in favor of team Stannis/Rob, much like in Battle of the Bastards.

tyrion isnt released because jamie never threatened varys to do it

I rather believe that Sansa *_would_* still have strategic value- maybe not as 'key to the North' & heiress to Winterfell, _but_ she's still sister to the King in the North, *&* kin to the young Lord of the Vale, Robin (who's unlikely to make old bones)- & the planned marriage to Robin's heir-apparent would still serve a purpose: it unites the Vale & the North (her unconsummated marriage to Tyrion would almost certainly be annulled) -- Baelish might find himself in only a slightly less advantageous position as the original story, or as equally advantageous, for what he might manage to negotiate; it's evident that the Vale didn't like Lysa's prevarication & isolationist policy- the Vale lords *wanted* to support Robb, as they were mortified by news of Ned's death (remembering both that Ned was fostered at the Vale in his youth, forming many friendships- & also that, as is revealed by Catelyn to Robb- when she's trying to dissuade him against naming Jon his heir - that several important Vale families have Stark blood in their ancestry, due to a Stark-Royce marriage a few generations before: Royce - Waynwood - Templeton - Corbray- these are all important houses). *And* , they have an as-yet barely touched fighting force, but they also possess many veterans from Robert's Rebellion, possibly also the last Greyjoy Rebellion- which was less than a decade ago, I believe - as well as the fact that they have heavy horse, something the North lacks almost entirely {except for White Harbour men, most of the North is light & medium cavalry} - the possibility of Baelish pivoting & using his position as Lord Protector of the Vale/ Robin's stepfather, to negotiate to join the 'rebels'- with the lords' support (rather than the slow-burn neutering that is going on currently, to solidify his power against Valemen dissidents {arguably, he could well do 'a Roose', & use the war as a means to be rid of those strong heads of house, who might stand in his way at a later date- but in the immediate moment, that's neither here nor there- especially if he's showing a pro-Stark stance}). He could also use both his 'rescue' of Sansa, & the strength of the Vale as leverage in negotiations- he could arrange for young heirs/ families of important Northern houses to be moved to the security of the Vale -- however, this scenario ultimately has one big flaw: the Vale, & specifically Baelish have to openly side with Robb- but that means it will be made common knowledge to all of Westeros - it would be The North, the Riverlands, & the Vale arrayed against the Crownlands^, the Stormlands^^, the Reach*, & the Westerlands (with the Iron Islands an armed semi-neutral power, & Dorne being properly neutral- for the moment). However... ^The Crownlands was put under enormous strain during the Reach blockade, working overtime to supply the capitol (which rapidly suffered & almost shut down before the Battle of the Blackwater) - they might not be able to sustain another similar event (especially not with the increasing presence of the Sparrows). ^^The Stormlands are only _nominally_ under Crown control- Cersei/Kevan have just about ignored/ forgotten them - they are torn between loyalty to 'Robert's son'/ Renly (briefly) & Stannis- so counting on them is not wise -- & even more impactfully, they're also currently besieged by a mysterious foe... *As I mentioned earlier; the Reach has a couple of reasons for not being quite as sturdy an alliance as assumed, despite the many & obvious advantages - between House Florent (& possibly others) being split between Stannis & the Tyrells- & the mutual suspicion, both manufactured & genuine - this is not an alliance built for the long-term, it would seem.

Minute 08:33 Why does Stannis have no chance in this fight? OK, we are in the north but behind the wall the Storms End cavalry showed what it can do. The Storms End infantry is battle-tested + disciplined, Stannis' advantage. Rob won in the south with his cavalry. I don't know any numbers right now, but a Dire Wolf won't decide this battle (I'm pretty drunk, should have been asleep long ago, English is not my native language + I may have misunderstood something)

Tyrion doesn’t kill Tywin because Jamie isn’t there to tell him about Tysha which was the last straw that made him want to kill Tywin so instead Tyrion would just flee to Essos and also probably not tell Aegon to go to Westeros and instead stay going to marry Danaerys

So it's all Cat's fault😄

Robb's ENTRE thing is " What Would My Father Do" and Stannis bought even more heavily into Melisandre when Rob, Baylon, and Joffrey died. So he might take Robb being the only one of the 3 to live, and the fact that his Bastard brother is now his new Other fighting buddy, as a sign to send Davos to parlay with Robb instead of Manderley. Then Stannis could continue his idea to "Serve the realm" after defending the wall and befriending Jon, by helping Robb drive the Ironborn out, along with Davos appealing to Robb that His Father Gave his Life to make Stannis the King of the 7 Kingdoms because it was the right thing to do. Robb would give a big speech to his bannermen, about trusting his father's judgment and what he gave his life for to rally the North behind Stannis and bend the knee. The Boltons are likely upset they arent part of the royal family, but dont really have an avenue for betrayal. Now Robb who had kicked the crap out of Tywin all over the battlefield is united with the man Tywin fears most, and they have his son. While the they lose their strongest bargaining chip during the Purple Wedding with Littlefinger uses Saving Sansa" and marrying Lissa to switch sides because no one outside of enemies knows that he betrayed Ned, unless Melisandre happens to sniff him out. Heck, with Stannis being up North, the Brotherhood might even come out to support him, being a part of the same faith, notoriously "just" and being The Storm Lord since Renly's death, which probably doesn't matter to the BWB, but Baric is from the Stormlands. In this situation, Tywin likely clings to all he has left in Tyrion, instead of trying to rid himself of an unwanted heir. Him getting Cersei under heel and getting here to refocus elsewhere, convincing her there's a threat elsewhere (Oberon would be the obvious choice, but Tywin is smart enough to know he can't point Cersei that way because of her daughter being in Dorne and making an enemy out of them while they're fighting Stannis united with the North is a recipe for disaster) is likely enough to keep from pushing Tyrion over the edge and keeping him on team Lannister. If for nothing else than them all wanting to save Jamie and not be wiped out of existence. Tywin and Tyrion's brains together would likely figure out Oleanna, but couldn't let it out because they are the strongest(and only) allies they have. As doomed as the situation is, the best Tywin can do is surrender the Throne for Jamie's life and his House to Stannis. He could do the same with Dany, but he loses Jamie that way. In the End, of this scenario like in the real story Jon's parentage is discovered, Stannis and Robb Die against the Others, Plus Robb's will resurfaces to make Jon the King by every possible avenue. True Targaryen heir, Robb's named heir, who was in this scenario Stannis's named heir in

If a red wedding did a happen would Blackfish kill Jamie for retaliation even though the Lannisters have Sansa?

She destroyed her family by doing so. All in a selfish pursuit to get her "daughters back." What a hope that was.

I will say for Stannis while he might not like Robb, he at least knows where he stands with Robb. Robb is like a lot like Ned honourable etc and so Stannis likely could accept working with Robb after some long discussions and both deciding the The Others and the Lannister's are the true enemies of this war. The fate of the North as independent can be discussed another time, in the long term Robb might even flip to accepting Stannis as his King in some agreement. Now when Daenerys turns up, I expect the Starks to likely do what their ancestors did and bend to the Dragon, because the Starks are not fools and they know it worked last time, they also like you said don't care about who sits on the throne that will cut you all the time. Likely Danny will remind them of that fact as well to encourage them to bend. Leaving Stannis to fight the Daenerys and well it ain't going to be a happy ending for him. Still a better demise for him than what the show gave him. I think the Northern Houses will understand why he had to kneel that time, Dragons are just too much for anyone to fight. Little Finger he will keep Sansa due to his crush on her, or just to make sure he has an insurance policy against the Starks and also as a way to win favour with Kat again since he still has some mixed feelings for her.

First time viewing - guess I better subscribe

This was the moment I knew I’d hate catelyn forever. Lost the war for the north. Red wedding doesn’t happen if they have Jamie

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