What If Robert and Cersei Had A Son? (Game Of Thrones) 

I can actually see Ned accepting Lyonel's decision and staying as hand. Keeping the secret. It's not like he's stranger to doing that

Renly would absolutely not rebel against his trueborn nephew. The Lannister incest babies invited challenge; a true son of Robert only a handful of years younger than Renly does not, especially if his alliance with the Starks is secure. I think King Lyonel would publicly acknowledge his siblings as bastards and disinherit them, but not punish them for existing. Jaime would be dismissed from the Kingsguard and expelled from court, giving him a chance to make a legitimate Lannister heir. If there’s going to be a power struggle, it will be in the Westerlands between Joffrey and Jaime’s legitimate children after Tywin’s death. I also see no reason Ned couldn’t stay on as hand, especially with his daughter becoming Queen.

I would've called him Eddard Baratheon as a reference to how Neds heir is named after Robert Baratheon

Joffrey not beeing first in line for the throne could strongly impact his development for the better : . .

I would say that while Lyonel would share some similarities with Robert he would also take some traits from Stannis. I believe this would be the case because while he's Robert's kid he wouldn't be that close to his father because of Robert's complete adversity for any kind of responsibility, so Lyonel would seek out another father figure to learn from. Jamie may be there but at best would just be a fun uncle that teaches him to have fun or at worst hate Lyonel since he is Robert's kid. So Lyonel would drift close to Stannis to learn how to be a good leader and would probably end up being a good balance between his father and uncle. All the sense of responsibility and competence from Stannis and all the charisma and strength from Robert.

I can see Lyonel learning of his half-siblings' bastardy leading to him writing a will for sucession in the event of his death without an heir. If the will has to be enacted, it'd reveal that the other children are bastards, but the mere existance would have the court gossiping about why Lyonel would have such a thing written up and they may draw conclusions. This could convince Ned to staying on as hand and it'd turn the other children into the same situation as the Strong Boys - everyone knows they're bastards but no one dares say it outloud. That could lead to Cersei retreating to Casterly Rock in an unofficial exile.

Another interesting plot point: Ned’s attempts to portray Lyonel’s siblings as bastards could be seen as somewhat self serving, as Sansa’s children will have less threats to the throne

Correct me if I’m wrong: I think part of the reason that Cersei’s first child isn’t counted in Maggie’s prophecy is that the child didn’t live long enough to receive the GoT equivalent of a christening. In a lot of catholic backgrounds, it’s kind of considered your “soul birth” or something like that.

What if Robert & Cersei has a son together? A classic what if prompt , there’s plenty of fanfics with this idea as it’s interesting and capable of changing the story dramatically. There’s lots of ways how this son of Robert & Cersei would’ve been like, my favourite being *Daveth Baratheon (Trials and Tribulations of the Oathkeeper)* that’s on AO3. Seeing the interaction between Robb and Tywin in war meeting since Renly still rebelled against the Crown, so this what if is a classic for sure. Goddamnit, 23:00 I’m tired of this misconception, Jorah Mormont was distracted by Barristan Selmy, so if he wasn’t there then Jorah would’ve saved Daenerys Targaryen if Jorah wasn’t distracted.

24:28 "Loras put that battery in his back" 😭😭😭😭You wild for that one lol

OMG can you imagine a Choose Your Own Adventure Game of Thrones, that would be wild.

I HAVE WAITED FOR THIS EXACT WHAT IF FOR YEARS!!!!!!!

i like using gendry as the stand-in for lyonel! the first time i watched the show (still haven't read the books), i thought "so their first son *didn't* die, he was just taken away and raised as a bastard for some reason??"

What if Viserys only have daughters with Alicent? What if Lucerys lost his eye *instead* of Aemond? What if both Lucerys & Aemond died in episode 10? What if Viserys had Aegon II married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death? What if Rhaenyra was like Jaehaerys The Conciliator? What if Rhaenyra Targaryen married Borros Baratheon? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenys Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Daemon Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Rhaenyra married Otto after Alicent married Viserys? What if Aegon-III lived longer and made his Daughter Daena hair after the death of his sons? What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?

Gendry be like "am I a joke to you?" 😂

Another thing to note: Lyonel is not only an excellent name for the reasons you mentioned, but also because it sounds akin to Lyanna. Whether Robert would have thst intention over the name, I'm curious if Cersei would take it as a slight regardless. It's possible she doesn't acknowledge it-a lot of characters have names with similar phonemes in Westeros-but if she takes it that way, it sets up a very bitter relationship between mother and son. And none of this even mentions what sort of relationship Joffrey would have with Lyonel. Does Lyonel chastise or excuse Joffrey's actions? Does Joffrey develop differently with a big brother in his life? Does Cersei's scorn for Lyonel and doting on Joffrey cause tension? Lots of character avenues to explore.

I personally think Gendry is the trueborn son of both Cersei and Robert from the show. Gendry did say he remembers his mother had blonde hair then disappeared

Good video! Of all the Thrones related thought experiments, I think this is one of the more interesting ones.

More vids, this is good stuff sir!

Or Cersei lied to Catelyn. She wasn't known for her sincerity. Her purpose in the room was to see if Bran was going to survive or not and if he would reveal Her and Jamie's secret. So she made up a yarn to show fake empathy to Catelyn to disguise her true purpose.

My personal theory on the valonqar is that it’s Tommen, the one younger brother no one would see coming. Her baby, her boy, the younger brother to the monster Cersie created

What if Ned never knew about the tower , so what would Arthur and the Hightower guy do with the baby .

"Lyonel Baratheon... gods what a stupid name" Other reality King Robert

Lyonel Baratheon. House Lannister's sigil is a lion. Was the subtle pun intended?

Mannnnn, I love listening to your thoughts ✌️

I thought about this some while ago. I like the image of Lyonel as someone like Teddy Roosevelt-born sick, but refusing to succumb or be frail. A character who seeks adventures and obstacles and challenges, within and without, to overcome them. Whether his early sickness would leave him stunted or he powers through it and takes his father's height (at least in the books Robert is 6'6". Mark Addy, the actor, is about 6' even), that could potentially change the trajectory of how he sees strength and might. And this is ignoring whether or not he inherits his grandfather's cunning. Would he be as able a statesman as Tywin, if less brutal? Or only so involved in such affairs as his father-more concerned with feasts and tourneys and glory and challenges? All interesting directions, to not even mention the elements you touched on in this video.

Need more of this

GoT -What if Robb didn't break his betrothal with Jeyne, but later with Margaery after Renly's death? Assuming someone else saw the shadow and vouched for Brienne so they didn't have to flee. -What if Jon chose not take the Black and left the wall? (Free cities, rest of Westeros, Beyond the wall) HOTD -What if Lucerys survived his flight from Aemond? -What if Aemond survived the battle of the God's Eye and returned to KL with Alys and his son? (With or Without Vhaegar)

I believe that Robert and Cersei did have a son. Cersei abandoned it to get back at Robert for cheating on her. She vowed to never get pregnant by Robert again.

A huge conflict I can see happen is the starks and the Tyrell’s having a conflict. I can’t see Renley turning against his actual nephew. But I can see him reaching for power for both him and his friends. Renley had been trying to get Robert to Mary Margery for a while, I can see him pouncing on Lynal trying to get him to set Sansa aside to put the Tyrell’s in power.

The child would've quite likely have been named "Eddard" since Ned named his first son Robb after Robert. And Robert loved Ned like a brother and obviously loved Lyanna so a northern name would've made sense.

Oh, that child is still alive....his name is Gendry. Thats my headcanon, i refuse to believe otherwise.

Cersei would kill the true born son in any alternate universe, so long as bobby b says “Lyanna” in their wedding bed.

You know the fandom is dying when the What If scenarios start hitting the feeds 💀

6:52 that freaking song is the best thing to ever come out of Season 8. I know that bar is very low, but that song rocks! I still listen to the full version of that song by Florence & The Machine.

John Arryns last words “the seed is strong” was 1:15 his attempt at leaving a clue about the so called Baratheon children’s lineage. Wouldn’t “joffs a bastard” have been a better clue? Or “Jaime pumps cersei”? Or “Jaime’s joffs father” or a million other possibilities? Just sayin.

I had read somewhere that in Westeros, children are not counted as part of the official count until they survive their first year, that's why Baby #1 is not part of Maggie's prophecy

I feel like we would worry about Joffery more, cuz I just know he's be bitter about Lyonel getting not just a lot of Cersei's attention but all of Robert's. I mean, unless Tywin arranges an 'unfortunate accident' for the problem child or has him join the army to discipline him while giving him a different outlet for his violent tendencies, Joffery might get Lyonel killed

I'm also gonna agree that Eddard would be the better name, and I think he'd be way different from Joffery because as soon as Cersei starts popping out blonde-haired incest babies Eddard would be sent away to be fostered by Stannis as the Prince of Dragonstone(if for nothing else than to get a constant reminder of their differences out of sight to protect her other children), which could lead to Ned doing the same with Jon, in a bit of irony. Stannis would get "sons" to raise. Stannis and Davos would pass on their best qualities to go along with the inherited natural charisma of Robert and some likely teaching from his Grandfather Tywin to make him SUPER Formidable. Jon would likely become close with Davos, but also best friends with Eddard setting up for even More drama with Jon's true parentage. Melisandre would also take an interest in Jon, with him having legitimate potential to fulfill her prophecy by finding some eggs and "awakening a Dragon" from beneath Dragon Stone.

I honestly saw Cersei's story about her son with Robert dying from a fever as a lie spun to try and seem more sympathetic to Catelyn's plight. And regarding the laughing storm. I recall another of Robert's nicknames was "The laughing storm reborn" or something like that. To your point about Cersei loving her children. Not quite. She basically loves them as narcissistic extensions of herself. That's why she doted on Joffrey in canon. He was the crown prince and he could allow Cersei the ultimate power. While I cannot say that Lyonel could be like Robert or more like Cersei. I like to believe that if Lyonel prefers to be his own person and stand by his decisions and not bend to the whims of his mom. Then Cersei may grow to despise her eldest son.

I honestly think Cersei was lying to Cat when she said that she had another son. It was her evil attempt at empathy.

I'm not sure if Lyonel would be nice, because Joffrey wasn't born evil, but raised. Maybe Cersei would raise her first son the same as Joffrey making him arrogant and cruel just like Joffrey

I kind of assume Cersei just straight-up lied to Catelyn in the show about having a child with Robert.

I wonder how different Joffrey could've turned out as a second son with a stronger older brother to keep him in line?

Only 7 true Targaryens were alive during Roberts rebellion and with them all dead. Robert would be the closest claimant being great grandchild of Rhaelle, the aunt of Aerys the Mad

I could see vary’s and Little finger too under certain circumstances arrange for an accident for any true born kid they may have had

i think this timeline is peacefull in some part whit Lyonel and sanas being together and having children the starks and lannister being more controled, and if everything goes right we could se a stable kingdoom but after lyonel death i think there could be a war between again the starks and lannisters but who knows, about the hand of the king ned and stannis are the most obvious options i dont think in this scenario theres chance of twin being the hand of the king

theoretically geoffry could be sent to casterly rock as hed be next in line after tyrion, there would be enough positions to send out the 3 rather than keep them at court while strengthening relations, getting them away from the rumour mill

Maggie's prophecy could still work even with Cersei giving birth to four children instead of three. Cersei is a very narcissistic character, half the reason she sleeps with Jamie is because she considers him to be a part of herself as her twin. So if she has a child with Robert's dark hair and eyes, a child that looks nothing like HER, why would she claim it? Her children are blonde and green eyed like her, the dark haired child she birthed? That's ROBERT'S child, not hers. Never hers. The prophecy still works because as far as she's concerned, she only has three children.

Do what if Robert refused to become king! I’ve always wondered what that would lead to but could never come up with anything

If anyone loves this concept, I strongly recommend the fanfic Trials and Tribulations of the Oathkeeper by DeadlyMaestrom711. The boy is named Daveth, and it’s overall very well-written.

Even if Renly attempted to go at the throne, there's no way Lyonels house would side against him. He's a Baratheon, even if some were loyal to Renly, majority eoukd side with their rightful king. And plus, I doubt the Tyrells would even side with Renly either. They only did so because of Robert's death and Joffrey being king. Lyonel being the legitimate king would have waaaaaay to many houses on his side. The Lannisters, all of the Riverlands, the North and Vale. Its way too many houses against what, two at most?

I think Gendry is the true born son of Cersei and Robert.

If you want to do another one of these scenarios you could try doing “what if Ned and Ashara’s baby survived”. Canonically, ashara Dayne had a miscarriage that was likely Ned’s (or his brother Brandon’s) child, and if this child survives Ned would be honor bound to take care of it after ashara commits suicide following the news of her brothers death. That means Jon is likely written off as this baby’s twin brother and both are deemed as Ned and asharas illegitimate children by the rest of Westeros. This gives Jon an outlet to grow up with since he’s no longer the only bastard in winterfell and now has a brother who can relate to him and share his concerns and dreams with. This brother is also the nephew of Arthur dayne, so if the Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree he’s likely an incredible fighter from an early age which would further challenge Jon, who in the books is much less of a fighter and more of a cunning planner. The result is that ned now has to raise an actual bastard who’s ambition to follow in the steps of his uncle would land him in trouble overtime as he likely would follow Ned south as part of his household guard. He may fight Joffrey on the kings road to protect Arya, he may participate in the kings landing tournament, and he may even fight Jamie to protect Ned (Jamie would probably have an interest in his idols nephew as well). However, I’m not one for writing a fanfic at the moment and I just think the scenario is worth pondering since another actual snow could drastically change the course of the story.

When is part 2 of the what if with Maegor the bronze dragon or what if Deamon was king of the narrow sea. What if wish list. What if lord commander Westerling killed cole and the greens in the small council chamber. What if Rhaena claimed the Cannibal after the drift mark thing. What if Viserys and Daemon brother Aegon was alive. What if Balerion the black dread was alive in house of dragon.

Varys would poison this trueborn son. In the books, his goal is a civil war, and he would get it one way or another.

Isn't your description of Lionel basically just Renly?

You forgot Stannis going to Dragonstone when Jon Aryan died. He was investigation with him.

The prophecy was correct, I think Cersei simply lied about losing her first. I think she made the story up to help console cat to the fact that bran may die and life carries on

It may be a slight technicality but there’s possibly a difference between a child and a baby? I mean, if it was said how many would she birth could change it somewhat

Am I the only one that thinks it’s a possibility just a small one, that Robert low key knew. Literally never had this thought until just now

Speaking on the show only: I envision Gendry having been Cersei and Roberts child but maybe Cersei didn't want his child and had him ordered dead, and maybe Jamie instead of killing him just gave him up as a common bastard of Robert's. Or she wanted to keep him but Jamie had him taken away and told her he was dead out of jealousy and proceeded to impregnate her. All the visits and questions to Gendry weren't only that people wanted to make sure he was safe/ or kill him because he was Robert's kid but maybe because they wanted to confirm who his mother was. The secret was slowly getting out about the illegitimate heirs as rumors and stories started to connect. That's what I think. 😊

Didn’t Cersie mention to Katelyn Stark that she and Robert had a stillborn son when she visits them in Branns room after Jamy had thrown him from the tower? (In the HBO serie at least). She said he had black hair, with probably means he was in fact Roberts since Jamy and her children were all blond yet Roberts children all had black hair

The entire Baratheon line is related to the Targaryen line the progenitor of house Baratheon was Aegon the conqueror's cousin.

The man The Myth THE LEGEND

Lionel would probably do as Robert did and bow to political necessity and beg Ned to stay. Likely Lionel would not care for Joffrey but Mycella and Tommen were nice and he would likely care about them if not Joffrey. Also I think it would be interesting if he met Gendry or his other elder bastard siblings.

I often think how different the series would be if you change just a few things. What if Robert Baratheon had adored Cersei…. I think she would have actually been a total loyal wife and vicious supporter of Robert. What if Jamie didn’t love Cersei. I think a lot of his character… was his guilt for loving his sister. He was a man fit to be king but his guilt made him run from power and attention. Some see Cersei as some brilliant manipulator…. I see her more as a feral wounded animal who just happened to fall in the position of power that allowed her to take her pain out on everyone. Would have Tywin tried to take the crown if he had a son fit for the crown. Etc…. Just things I think about. Enjoyed the video

I still hope for snow's serial

What if daenerys's son survived. What if cersei and Rhaegor got married. What if Jon snow never went to the wall.

What if the mad king burned King's Landing

Explanation easy… Cersei was LYING to Catelyn about her “black haired beauty…”

Ned wouldn’t abandon Robert’s son like that, no way. Especially with Sansa still there and the attempt on Bran’s life, he’d stay if only for Sansa’s protection. They’d probably arrange a deal to have Jaime, Cersei and the bastards dismissed to Casterly Rock to remove them from public eye and politicking in exchange to stay as hand. Also where’s Tywin? I imagine he’d have a few things to say if Lyonel found out about Cersei’s adultery had her and Jaime and the kids sent back. It’s hard to say how he’d react. I like to think he’d immediately arrange to have Jaime find a suitable heir and disinherit Cersei’s line. Or if Ned does end up leaving, he’d probably join Lyonel as hand.

What would Lyonel's relationship be like with his uncles Baratheon? Or his grandpa Tywin?

What of gendry is actually Robert and Cersis true born son.

I can Imagine Lionel being a rather large young man with light brown hair. (Still very clearly darkish brown. but lighter than his fathers cuz of Cercei.) And he'd appear similar to a mixture of Jaime/Tywin and Robert. (As Jaime is Cerceis twin, Lionel should have similar genes. In fact, might look more like Jaime than Tommen and Jeoffry due on account of not being inbred.) So a tall young man who looks something of a mix of a young in shape Robert and Jaime/Tywin. (Inherited from Cercei) I'd imagine he'd be 6 foot 4+ when adult. Possess either blue or green eyes. Perhaps something in between like blue eyes with a smattering of green and gold. have a decently large, muscular but relatively lean build. fairer skin than his fathers. but rougher than a typical Lannisters. As well as have medium toned brown hair. Of course he'd have a penchant for swordplay and warhammers. Honestly, might cause his father to stay somewhat in shape to train him. I imagine Jaime would hate him, but try to love him. And spar with him nonetheless as they are family. He'd likely have incredible potential as a warrior and leader. Something of a perfect heir in both of Roberts brothers and even Tywins eyes. As at the very least the throne will possess lannister blood. This kid might just unite the seven kingdoms more than his father ever could. After all he'd have Tywin as hand of the king and Ned stark as an advisor and warden to the north. Heck. If he marries Sansa, The Baratheons starks and Lannisters would be truced by marriage and blood. The only threats in southern Westeros would be Baelish, Dorn and the Tyrells.

No, the prophecy means “Little Brother”

I think Melisandre would be more interested in Lyonel and Sansa's children. The kids with the song of ice (Stark) and Fire (Baratheon through their Targaryen lineage). Especially if they end up with three....

You say this sounds like a glorified fanfic, but it sounds so cool! I'd 100% read it!

I just figured that Cersei was lying about the child and was inserting herself into the issue. Plus if there were incest rumor swirling it would be best to plant the idea that Cersei actually bore a son for Robert It would be odd that Cersei and Robert would have had a child who died and it wasn’t recorded by the maesters/ned wouldn’t have known before hand. It sounds like the baby lived a bit before the fever took him so likely an announcement would have gone out at the time of birth/the bells would have rung for his birth, so KL would have been aware that a child was born ahead of Joeffry

What if either Viserys I named Rhaenyra his hand of the king (to get the realm used to her rule and get her some practice ruling), or abdicated the throne to Rhaenyra when he became severely ill (to ensure a smooth transition of power to the chosen heir). What if Brandon killed Littlefinger What if Ned sent his daughters away before confronting Cersei. What if Bron lost at the Eerie or just didn't want to risk it? What if Cersei and Jaime had the sense not to get it on in Cersei husband's best friend's home that they'd never been to before. What if Joffrey didn't have Ned executed. What if Robb married the Frey girl What if Arya picked more politically advantageous names. What if Ned fully explained the situation to Sansa and Arya so they knew what was going on. What if Bran was killed. What if Lucerys was fostered on Driftmark. What if Aemond and Jaecerys were best friends. Show only What if the strong boys resembled their mother. What if Rhaena claimed Vhagar. What if GRRM realized that brides below 15 weren't that common. What if Aegon escaped before his coronation. What if Rhaenyra only had daughters. What if Rhaenyra married a Hightower. What if Alicent didn't have children. What if Lyana survived What if Baelon accepted Robb terms, maybe Robb phraes them in a way that Baelon can accept, or maybe Baelin a bit more pragmatic. What if Jon didnt join the Nights Watch. What if Ned had his children fostered at various places. What if Robert legitimized one or more of his bastards

I think it would be awesome if he or gendry would have been named Orys

"What if robert had sent joffery to foster with Ned?"

What about Stannis? Would he even have left for Storm's End or been present in King's Landing?

I believe it would be easier for Ned & or Jon Arryn to tell Robert about the infidelity.

What if Viserys confronts Daemon in Dragon Stone instead of Otto.

I thought gendry was their son because cersei says her son had black hair like rob and gendry said he remembers his mom's blonde golden hair

GOT what if ideas: What is Robb survived the red wedding What if Viserys 3 lived What if Barristan didn’t die in season 5 What if the dorne plotline made sense What if Jon actually pushed his claim in season 8 *edited to clarify which Viserys

What if Viserys and Alicent have only daughters What if both Rhaegar and Lyanna survive

I wanna watch this show

Man, can you make a book with your story, cause it sounds a lot better than the shit we have now😂

the plothole is just there if you assume Cersei is telling the truth. We know she has stopped pregnaancies from Robert, but here she might be exhagerating the pregnacy progress from a miscarige to a stillbirth since she knows that feigning sympathy and shared loss with Cathlyn will help in her manipulation o hide her involvement in Brans "accident"

make a what if Aegon V didn't die in The Tragedy of summerhall, and had managed to hatch dragon eggs, let's say 3 dragon eggs to make it interesting, how would that change history from that point o,n with no one dying in summerhall and dragons returning to the world?

Neither of his parents would have loved him either just likw with Joffrey, Tommen, or Marcella.

What if aemond survived the gods eye

I think Cersei only said that to Catelyn, of sympathy for herself, because she knew what her and Jamie have done. I dont believe Robert got a kid with Cersei. Or maybe it was a bastard from a lover of Robert, and Cersei ended up with the bastard kid, and "the flu" was a murder by Cersei. Like Catelyn ended up with Jon Snow.

So basically sounds like “what if Joffrey wasn’t a dick” so far 😂

What if Lyanna Stark was engaged to Jamie Lannister it sounds unreasonable but let’s say Tywin decided to approach Rickard Stark before Stephan Baratheon

26:46 Any "What If" scenario is fanfiction, lol. There's no shame in that.

What if Rob kept his promise and married a Frey?

His name is gendry fam