What if Sweden Won the Great Northern War? 

“He didn’t drink, he didn’t even have sex, all he wanted to do is conquer” As a hoi4 player I feel personally attacked

I tried preserving the Swedish Empire in Empire Total War; you just end up in a constant state of warfare that you're barely able to sustain, against far greater numbers.

It is so interesting how both the Swedes and the Swiss were both well known for being fantastic fighters, and both are also well known for being neutral for centuries.

As Estonian i can say that Swedes (especially some rulers like Gustavus Adolphus) were liked by our pesants and do to this day beeing part of swedish empire is seen second best to independence (1918-1940 and 1991-current). It's literally named "Good old Swedish times."

A vid on if the Sino-Soviet split never happened or was patched up in the 70s would be beyond amazing

Just a small thing: technically Poladn-Lithuania was neutral, and it was Saxony who declared war on Sweden. It just so happened that Augustus, king of Saxony, was also the elected king of Poland-Lithuania.

This theme reminds me of what Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said about wars. In the Gulag Archipelago he wrote that Sweden was fortunate for losing the Northern War because it stopped caring about expansion and just went about being a peaceful, happy nation while Russia started centuries of conquest that just made its people more opressed and ultimately created a system that collapsed under its own lust for prestige. A very thoughtful insight, imo

In this universe, Sabaton writes the Swedish national anthem.

*Swedish Nationalist has entered the chat* “If Denmark remains a country by the end of this video I’m rioting”

there was actually a Swedish plan to join WW2. Operation 'free Denmark' and 'free Norway' were planned to go ahead less than a week after Germany surrendered and it was unnecessary. Almost worth a video in itself

Back in 2016 I did a presentation on the Great Northern War for a very minor class I had which was about public speaking. Students in the class didn't believe this war was real (because of how wacky the events were I guess?), and one kid said "It was the Great War and had nothing to do with Sweden" I was dumbfounded. Even the teacher asked me if I made it up. Edit: no I'm not American or was this in America.

As a Swede myself, I can say that you did a good job at portraying the most likely outcomes of the Great Northern War. Due to Sweden's general lack of manpower and focus on quality over quantity approach, it's only fair to assume that even if we did win the war, we'd still never be able to match the likes of Great Britain or Germany on the greater European scene. We'd remain formidable adversaries, yes, but I doubt we'd ever be able to expand much further than Scandinavia proper due to the issue of spreading our forces too thin. It doesn't matter how immensely skilled your troops are if they're few in number and spread so thin that they can't possibly cover all fronts. At some point you'd have to realize that focusing on retaining what you can control is much more important than trying to reach for what you can't. I definitely appreciate this video because of this. As always, it focuses on the feasible ways the war could have ended differently, and the most plausible possibilities that arise from these scenarios.

I feel like nordic alternate history should be explored more, they had quite a lot of impact in the earlier history of Europe. All that's mostly talked about nowadays is Finland and WW2

I like how these videos are usually doubling down as little history lessons. I wasn’t too familiar with the Great Northern War, but an alternate history teaches of the real history simultaneously. It’s cool

As a Swede I always chuckle at the neutrality meme. We've never been neutral, just very good at turning with the winds while making it seem we never pick a side. Opportunistic. That said, great video.

Hearing my own country getting compared to Italy had me clenching my heart in pain 😭😭😭

My EU4 fantasies are finally becoming true.

Scenario idea: what if Hungary became a fully independent state during the 1848 revolution

I think one thing you neglected to mention was that the rest of the European great powers that could have intervened were distracted by the War of the Spanish Succession until the war had turned against Sweden. Considering that the latter war almost ended in a diplomatic settlement, a different alternate history scenario to look into would have been "How would the Great Northern War have turned out if the War of the Spanish Succession did not break out?"

For Swedish speakers, there’s a great novel about this called ”Redovisningsavdelning Marviken”. It’s not a ”full” alt-history story though, rather a sci-fi and Tom Clancy-esque thriller within an alt-history timeline

There are two Swedish alternate history scenarios. Both can be simplified to: What if the king didn't die?

Fun fact: Peter was in Narva but he thought no fighting will happen and returned to Moscow 1 day later the Russians got destroyed and captured He'd likely be captured as well and thus Russia would have to make peace

2:07 “Charles XII lived for war. He didn’t drink, he didn’t even have sex. All Charles wanted to do was conquer.” damn he's just like me fr fr

Finally, an openly-discussed imaginary scenario about Swedish history and politics that doesn't even involve meatballs!

The big way a Swedish Empire would survive would be less good warrior kings, though that is important, and more diplomatic and silver tongued ones willing to make strong allies out of other major Eurasian powers. The Swedes (and the Dutch) could learn a lot from Portugal, an Empire that survived largely by not pissing off Spain and being best friends with Britain. Their ambitions are always going to put them at odds with Denmark, Poland-Lithuania, and Russia. But endearing themselves with the natural rivals to these powers like the Ottomans, Austria or even Prussia- or just someone that is fairly close by and a capable skull basher like France or Britain- to tilt the scale in their favor would definitely see them in a better position. It might mean being the junior partner but it also could mean stability and even expansion.

I've been waiting for this video for years. It's been the alt history scenario I've been the most interested in ever since I learned about the Great Northern war

One comment about Finland: in the year 1700 Finland already had been the eastern part of Sweden for ca 500 years. And before that there was just tribes (and Sweden didn’t really exist either). The idea of Finland as a separate country came after the Russian occupation in the 19th century. And even after the Russians invaded Finland was allowed to keep it’s Swedish laws, unlike all other parts of Russia.

Correction: I think you tried to mention Scania but instead said Scandia in 13:50. Scania is the region in the most southernpart of Sweden that was an integrated part of Denmark until the Treaty of Roskilde 1658. Scania was full of Danes but they later got assimilated by the Swedes - just as you mentioned in your sequence. The pictures that you display while trying to explain this are that of the Scandes, or the Scandinavian Mountains. It's an honest mistake but I think you literally mixed up Scania and the Scandes and created Scandia. All the best

As a Dane I can say this is a nightmare scenario

I wonder how many average Americans even know Sweden had an empire? I've met people who didn't even know Portugal existed and thought Brazil spoke spanish

The main issue here is population density, while Sweden never had a large population, the possible Swedish Empire, would have something around 25-30 million inhabitants today most likely. Not massive, but still something. Now, assuming Sweden won the great northern war this could how ever change as one of the main issues with population density in scandinavia during this time was a general lack of food to supply a growing population (which only really rectified after the introduction of potatoes) but if Russia was beaten back, and or Poland was, that might have given Sweden access to a bounty of grains it lacked - thus creating a population growth further in time prior to said potatoes. If that was the case, then having a larger population growth earlier would mean Sweden and the Swedish empire could have grown alot in population, perhaps well above the 50 million mark, placing it at a size of other greater european powers - but with much larger land and natural resources with which to gain massive amounts of wealth from during the industrialization period.

Hey dude the algorithm just reconnected me with you and im so happy you're still making bangers this was a really cool topic. Keep it up Cody never stop the grind man.

What if Zambia won the space race

I was expecting more Sabaton jokes but I enjoyed it anyway. I knew literally nothing about the details of Sweden’s Empire so a glimpse into their situation was awesome.

As a Swede im so happy about this video, and the facts that are presented about why a future empire after the great nothern war wouldnt last is interesting! Good video mate!

I really like how your videos are mostly realistic and centered around actual facts to wonder how the world would turn out if something else happened good job👍

This was an incredibly brilliant video Ludwig!! Thank You for explaining this so eloquently

As a very liberal, globalast Swede, there are only three things that can make me a hardcore nationalist: football, hating Denmark, and at the top of the list: Swedish Alternate History. Thank you for this gift. Edit: I want too say that I don’t have anything to do with the clusterfuck in the replies (though I can’t exactly say I didn’t see it coming a mile away)

i recently finished extra historys' video on the great northern war and this question has been on my mind ever since, so this video helped answer it

Always good to see a new video from your channel.

Russian armies blocked their way 20 000 lost that day They bled the ground Peace they found There’s no sign of victory King Carolus had to flee And leave the land Leave command

great video! It's a shame this war isn't talked about as often as it should

1:11 and giving us Sabaton. And for 2:04… ALL EMBRACE ME! IT’S MY TIME TO RULE AT LAST! 15 YEARS AS I’VE BEEN WAITING TO SIT UPON MY THRONE!

Tack så mycket för videon!

1:27 "how could Sweden have won it" If your country gets invaded, say no, cant invade without your consent

As I said earlier when this episode was voted on the only way for Sweden's empire to ever have a chance of surviving is having King Charles X Gustav(Charles XII grandfather) win his wars in Poland-Lithuania and Denmark-Norway, had he done that Denmark-Norway would have been annexed and and Poland-Lithuania would have been demolished with Sweden and its allies carving up Poland and Lithuania join a Union with sweden(and yes all this where real plans by the King)

Great video, Cody!

You know it's a good channel when he adds beautiful details like "vila i frid" on the gravestone (means rest in peace in swedish) when the swedish empire fell/ended.

On a related note, "What if Peter the Great was captured by the Ottomans?" For context, when Charles XII fled to the Ottomans, Peter demanded the Ottomans force him out. The Ottomans denied, so Peter began the Pruth Campaign... which was a disaster. Peter's army was surrounded and the Ottomans could've captured him, however the Grand Vizier accepted bribes from the Russians and let them go. If Peter was captured, along with his whole army, what could've changed?

I did my middle school project on the Great Northern war and how it effects us today so to see this video only an hour after it came out made me so exited.

0:13 I admire your self control to use a portrait instead of The Bridge.

14:56 when you see the Netherlands pass by, and near where you lived, the mills are a dead give away, I cycled that area many times Thanks!

Honestly this sounds like a pretty cool alternative history, and I'm not even from Sweden. This is basically inspiration for people, Swedes and non-Swedes, to go into games like EU4, Hoi4, Civ 6, etc., and work to create their own Swedish Empire. Might consider doing that myself sometime, and listen to Sabaton while doing it.

Scenario Idea: What if Denmark actually exists?

Your bits with Jimmy are so fun that I always watch the ads. Even though I have Nord VPN. And I think I even used your code for it. Still watch 'em.

Det var jättekul att lyssna och kolla på denna video! Tack!

Wasn't there an earlier divergence point where an earlier king of Sweden had a claim to the Polish throne and died trying to press it like Harald Hardrade? If he had instead pulled a William of Normandy, Sweden would have had its bread basket and that would change the underlying assumptions about population.

While I definitely agree that Sweden would be a "second rate" power even if they won, I'm not so sure that this scenario is as unrealistic as you seem to think. This video is made with the assumption that Russia survives the great northern war, which isn't unlikely, but with each successive loss to Sweden, Russia would become weaker and closer to collapse. One of the things that made Russia a major European power was access to the Baltic. Without this, their chances of survival and acquisition of great power status would be severely diminished. If Sweden consecutively won 1-3 wars against Russia after a victorious great northern war, a likely outcome would be Sweden not having to fight Russia any longer, because there wouldn't BE a Russia. Whilst Russia isn't as vulnerable as Sweden to one defeat, if Sweden had 1 or 2 semi-competent kings after Charles, chances are the empire would survive and wouldn't run the risk of losing any wars against Russia throughout the 20th century or even the 19th. At this point, few countries would have any interest in Sweden, save for Denmark-Norway and Germany, the former of which would likely get crushed and the latter probably winning any potential wars, but not crippling the empire, since their interests would be limited to the few uninportant north german provinces that Sweden could afford to lose. Any other actors with even a modicum of interest in what Sweden has, would probably see a fulfillment of these interests as not worthwhile since the Swedes would be a pain to invade and occupy even if a victory could be secured on the field.

YESSSSS I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR AGES, I AM SO HAPPY AAAAAA

Very good video Cody, now I know a bit more of Swedish history thanks to you. I have a couple of ideas that you could use for your future videos: 1.- What if FDR didn't run for a fourth term? 2.- What if the smallpox pandemic didn't happen in Mexico when the conquistadors came?

Problem is that Finnish isn't a Scandinavian language. Hell it's not even an Indo-European language. Italian, German and English have more in common with Swedish than Finnish has. So melting the two languages is basically impossible, and the existence of a distinct national language would invariably create a national identity. And any attempts to stump out the Finnish language would only lead to more resentment for the Swedish royalty.

“He didn’t drink, he didn’t have sex, he just wanted to conquer” He’s just like me fr

Thx for the reminder of the QOL. I had completely overlooked these changes.

Omg, I requested this like 5-6 yers ago, finally it's here. Thanks! :D

From the frozen North, they came Fought for founding father's claim It was then, their tale began Trace their roots from sixteen strong By their King where they belong En tid, Av Krig Wherever he goes Near or far, they are close For the King of Sweden, they lay down their lives

How will Sabaton react to this all?!?!

Great video, loved it

There's a novel: "Redovisningsavdelning Marviken" by Lars Wilderäng. It takes place in present day, but in an alternate timeline where Sweden won the war. It's pretty good.

Something that I excepted you to talk about is that there was a large internal conflict in Russia at the time. Peter's modernization and westernization policies weren't universally accepted, and if his grand ambitions on building a navy fail, I inagine Russia could (at least for a time) go isolationist and not really get involved in European affairs that much

This scenario makes me want to see if the Kalmar Union survived

Very good information thanks ❤❤

I have been Waiting for this

A video about Andrew Jackson listening to the court’s decision regarding Native American removal would be cool. It could lead to the Trail of Tears not happening in the same manner and possibly change Native American demographics and population size greatly

I've always liked the idea of a dominant Sweden. I tend to put the point of divergence a bit earlier, in the 17th century and the Ingrian war. I see a young Gustav Adolphus being super dominant and wiping out the Russian nobility including Michael Romanov and all other potential claimants to the throne. After which the regions of Pskov, Tver and Novgorod start to see learning Swedish as a good idea.

It feels so sad that you haven't covered the fact that Charles has gotten many letter at the beginning of the war about joining the Spanish war of succession. It'd be interesting to see Sweden tip the scales on one side or another

This was a amazing video. Thanks from Sweden!

LETS GO NEW VIDEO

Alternate Geography scenario I suggested on a now unlisted video: What if the Caspian connected to the Black Sea? The idea came from a web comic that mentioned a small Russian confederacy, a Kurdish empire, and between the two being a Caspian superpower that controls a third of Asia. Quote from when I asked about it: "In their world, the Kura river basin is very slightly differently shaped, but it makes a world of difference. That notion was really what spawned the whole idea of Khazovia in the first place: I was reading Wikipedia one day, and was reading about rivers in the former Soviet Union, and stumbled on the Kura, which almost but not quite connects the Caspian and Black Seas. So what if it had? What if instead of there being a low mountain range to force the river to turn southward, it hadn’t been cut off, and instead had connected to the Black Sea north of Batumi? Reading the history of the region, I realized that small change wasn’t so small, and would have enabled the small civilizations that started around the Caspian to become trading powerhouses. Iran and Russia would likely never have gained a foothold in the region, and it was ideally located on the Silk Road, even better than Tehran or similar cities - it’s easier to travel and transport goods by boat than on foot, so a large civilization was born. They had their wars over history, like everywhere else, but their location was strategically valuable, and their trading prowess helped keep them rich and independent, and to eventually take over areas that in our world belong to a lot of other nations on every side. The modern incarnation of Khazovia isn’t as nice as some of the historical forms - it’s a military dictatorship - but there’s always been a large and powerful nation-slash-empire there, and it was a check on groups like the Byzantines and Ottomans and Persians."

There is a good book called “Redovisningsavdelning Marviken” which plays out in a timeline where Sweden won the Battle of Poltava. I can say that Russia still is keen on Karelia even in modern times in the book, and won’t let that victory slide

FINALLY IVE BEEN WAITING

Scenario idea: What if the Taiping Rebellion or the Yellow Turban Rebellion in China had succeeded?

"I WAS CHOSEN BY HEAVEN! SAY MY NAME WHEN YOU PRAY!"

Huh, kinda cool to see a video about the Great Northern war. Not often I see this discussed outside of Sweden (and the other countries involved)

Perfect ad showed up for me. As soon as he said they would be like Italy a Better Therapy commercial started.

What if the Swedes never said “Bork?”

I'd love to see a video on what if Argentina won the Falklands War (which wasn't too unrealistic of a possibility).

Been a fan of this for many years, been listening to History That Doesn't Suck as a podcast, and was scrolling through previous videos, have you, or plan on, doing a video on if the US never entered WWI?

It's not as cold or dark here as you think. Sure, above the arctic circle, it's dark for the entire winter, but the sun is out the entire summer. In many parts of the country, it can get up to 90F or more in the summer, and the winters are usually -15C to -5C or warmer most of the times in most parts of the country.

Well, you will always have locally recruited multiethnic regiments protecting your imperial possessions. Look at the French Empire during the Napoleonic Wars, which was composed of just as many foreigners as French. The French invasion of Russia saw soldiers from Poland, Italy, German states, Switzerland, Spain, and Austria fighting in the French army. This is something never mentioned in the video: how widely the Swedish army recruited. They had a large number of Finns yes, but did you know there were local German, Estonian, and greater Livonian regiments? The Germans were mainly composed of Saxon troops, and they also raised a Karelian regiment. Had the Swedish Empire expanded, they probably would have recruited more from newly conquered territories to make up for the manpower shortage. Then there is the potential of allied armies, like in the true timeline, a Polish army under Stanislaw, and the possible creation of a unified cossack nation in Ukraine to fight with the Swedes, which they tried with Mazepa's cossacks, but in our timeline, the uprising was violently stamped out by Peter. But in a timeline where Peter was defeated, this is a very likely scenario. The Ottoman Empire nearly sided with Sweden and even defeated Peter when he attempted an invasion to capture the Swedish king in exile. Had the Swedes come out victorious, the Sultan would probably enter the war to seek gains at Russian expense. The latter three never had much love for the Russians, and I'm sure the Swedes could emphasize that and pledge to rid Northern and Eastern Europe of Russian influence to gain more support and men. The political situation inside Russia at the time was already fragile and on the verge of civil war had the Russians not won. Even with the Swedish defeat in our timeline, there were still several conflicts with Russia, most resulting in status quo ante bellum until the Napoleonic Wars. The Swedes did, however, decisively defeat the Russian Navy at the Battle of Svensksund in 1790, which the Russian naval presence in the Baltic Sea never fully recovered from and in many ways never did. So even after the Great Northern War, the Swedes still fought the Russians and managed to keep them on a leash until the Napoleonic Wars. I don't believe that Sweden would expand the empire past its historic boundaries if they eventually won the war, with the exception of annexing land to make it even harder for Russia to move further west, like Karelia and territories around the Baltic Sea, including a larger Swedish presence in Germany. A large chunk of Norway would probably also be annexed, as the Swedes had already invaded the Norwegian province of Tröndelagen when the Swedish Empire was at its peak. After all, this was largely a defensive war for the Swedes, and they never had any ambitions to aggressively expand like the Russians.

A point that is sort of overlooked when it comes to the Swedish Empire is that "Swede-ification" or whatever you'd like to call it would come fairly easy as any expansion Sweden did in any direction would always end the serfdom in those areas. Say what you will, but that is a good way of getting people loyal to you.

8:39 Truly a fate worse than death

Finally a good ol' alternate history video

What if Wldislav III of Poland didn’t die at the battle of Varna and consolidated his power in the kingdoms in central and Eastern Europe?

Love that you called out us Sabaton fans!

Could you possibly do a video on if Italy united in 1454? I know this video was done, but some of the events following the actual union doesn’t really correlate well with existing interests and culture of italy. I also just love your style of animations!

I loved the Sabaton reference, epic album by the way.

The real answer to the title is we would have more Sabaton songs about the Swedish Empire

Yes! One of my favorite alternative history possibilities!

Kalabaliken i Bender/the Skirmish at Bender is an amazing story in and of itself. Also, Russia offering a seemingly beneficial peace is always just them wanting a reprieve to get stronger and start the war again later on their terms. Yeah we ended up losing anyway but a peace would only prolong the collapse.

I wrote my high school paper on this war. It is to this day one of my favourite 'What if' scenarios due to how wild the entire event was.