What if the Persians Conquered Greece? 

:D True!

He was poisoned but yeah.

@@bernardi5919 He was "exectuted by poison" pretty much gave him poison and told him to drink it iirc.

@@The_Yukki Assisted suicide would be more accurate . Guy was "imprisoned" with no guards and cloth for doors .And before this they asked him to pay a minor fine , before he told them they are all retarded degenerates and he demands they pay a fine to him instead. The man is legend.

It would happen faster in other societys

The world's largest religion: Paddy O'Malleyism

would he have disciples that where carpenters?

He turns wine into green beer

@@sakr-el-bahr272 And bread into potatoes

This is already my religion. Every god damn time I try fishing.

Person: that would be redicu- *Alexander the great wants to know your location*

What? Pfft, that's ridi- Every Greek in the entire fucking world: ALEXANDER'S GREEK REEEEEEE

@@theodorospetridis4142 True, I'm just saying how some people react so extremely to that.

achaemenid policies: multiculturalism, upward education, and little to no slavery greeks: wHAT iF i dELETED tHEM pOLICIES

Speaking of, suppose Alexander had lived another twenty years. Would his empire have become more Persian or would Persia have become more Greek. Or, since every thing in history is contingent, would not have depended on the character and ability of his children and their subordinates? I have thinking of Henry V and his son. If Henry V had lived, something like the empire of Henry Ii would have been recreated. ,,we would never have heard of Joan of Arc.,

Thanks for this info

"Parthia, and the Sassanids which held such grip over the former Achaemenid Empire's territories that prevented these kingdoms from rising again'' I dont understand you when you said this. Parthia and, mainly, Sassanids were effectively a type of Achaeminid ressurection, culturally and politically, wasnt? In lighter ways, even though, Roman Empire ( Byzantine and Dominate phasse) and Caliphate were "persianisated".

​​@@KlausProvenzano no neither parthyia or sassanid were achaemenid resurrections. The parthyians weren't even persians and the sassanids were not the diract successor's of achaemenid's and their culture and policies were very different even if they were persians.

He got it right the second time.

@TheCroatianMapper I knew I wasn't the only one who saw that. 😉

god damn croat you got quite the likes

Thats what I was gonna say

AH a mapper!

Romans werent really masters of Greeks, don't forget the two languages of roman empire were Greek and Latin,and greeks were also romans ( east Romans).

@@katask7849 romans were Etruscian ,greeks were not eastern roman, they are two different nations but romans were basicly greekized by alot. If you look at the cultures you can see that the western lands adopted more to the east. The patterns goes like this, persians adopted mostly to babylonians, since their empires conquered eachother for about 1000 years before the great persian empire arrives ,meanwhile the greeks were adopting more to the egyptian during this time, specially their religion and culture. If we go forward to like 500 b.c. the persians in eyes of greeks they were almost the same people by culture, customs and practices as the babylonians, they built their cities like the babylonians did , adopted alot of their arts and language, the same persian culture and art developed in centuries and always effected those of Caucasus, turkey, India and arabia, the engineering the art and the customs specially. Same with greeks ,they effected cultures around them in caucasus region, in egypt and in Italy and anatolia .the greeks adopted to two major cultures first the egyptians ,second the persians. but so did the persians, greek culture was wide spread, egypt and rome by alot and persia by little. If you look at greek and roman customs and engineering and military they almost looked like the greek ones in earlier centuries with slight differences, but when you compare the Byzantine greeks militia customs and art , they look almost exactly like the persians, this tells that conquering a world doesn't necessarily mean you are master of them, you maybe adopt more to their way of life even if you are the conqueror .this is a good example for the romans you call masters of greeks, here the romans were absolutely not masters of greeks but greeks were masters of romans, they adopted to greek way of life by alot. I the ancient and classical world the persians and greeks were two which effected other civilizations the most but also eachother ,the roman art and culture was not popular in greece nor in persia. The romans main weapon in their conquest was their adoption to others, if anyone study their military and city building before the roman empire, and after its obvious that they adopted alot from greeks, in engineering, religion, art and customs and from persians in warfare, administrations and laws. Rome was a quick expanding force which adopted as quick as it expanded, dont forget the romans were the majority of the visitors of the great library of Alexandria during the roman Republic, this is a good proof to their adoption tactic.

Wonder why he wrote that.

Well said, I agree completely ! If for nothing else, we know that slavery would have been completely abolished (in Asia & Europe & subsequently America at least) *some 3000 years ago !!! Instead of a few decades ago* !! LMAO And many of the major wars & world wars wouldn't have happened & many of the knowledges of the past would've still remained intact :((( *shame* !!!! I envy our parallel universe (this particular version I mean)

Had persia won then maybe the library at Carthage would still be here because they could have stopped the punic wars. The greeks asked persia for help and when it was time to honor their part they broke their word. That started the battle of marathon. A Persianized Europe and Asia would be very Interesting because gnostic Christianity would be a minor religion and no Islam because Arabia would eventually become part of the empire.

I agree with your point about hellenization. The Egyptians staged several semi-successful revolts in the 5 and 4 centuries BC and the Babylonians kept using cuneiform and playing the Royal Game of Ur. It was the ability of hellenistic culture to assimilate different peoples and the power of Macedonian armies that made being Babylonian uninteresting.

Exactly. Agree to this point

Mark Freeman I see someone commenting nothing every video and I can say is keep at it this is a fucking awesome idea

I have duly noted your idea and it is a good one, however, I need to read more Early Modern Japanese history to make it.

@@WhatifAltHist wait, so you're still going to make a video about it in the future? You are truly the best alternate historian here in youtube!

@@WhatifAltHist What if South Africa won against Cuba in Angola..?

catholic japan? byebye tenno (emperor of japan).

Mongols were the sprinters, Romans the marathon runners

Mongols exploited the meta the romans were just g00d

@@plusxz821 You kind of have to abuse the meta when you're playing as nomads against agriculture-based states. I mean, just look at what happened to nomads when the devs finally nerfed the horse + bow combo.

Lol nice idea

Dude, we don’t need more hoi4 mods. Ck2, or even imperator would be the way to go.

Well, Good luck imagining this timeline in 1936

Better for Imperator or CK2

nah. too many hurricanes in the atlantic. shipbuilding of the era simply wasn't designed to handle such conditions

@@comparatorclock no I’m not saying the Greeks instantly make it to the Americas, but generally it is destiny that Western Europe will discover the Americas, since going around Africa takes a while to reach Asia, it’s likely they’d try to make the same voyages the Portuguese and Spanish made in our world.

The greeks didn't ahve the population, technology and motives to go across the ocean to build a city. Small pox and gun powder made a huge diffirence. The natives would still have beaten them out since greeks were extremely racist even to eachother and would have seen massive retaliation

By far the best alternative history on RU-vid. Way more in-depth than the others, and balances the strategic overview with little tactical facts about fighting styles, plus interesting trivia.

@@grubbybum3614 This. Also if you look at his earlier stuff, it's inspiring to see how much progress he's made in terms of presentation and overall production value.

This is so cute, no homo

Southern Thai Or northern Dayak IDK what part of malaysia?

Korea and maybe China will be speaking Nihongo

@@gaigairka6811 Laughs in Chinese Communist Party

@@gaigairka6811 I think the most likely thing they would do first would be colonize what would be in our time Eastern Russia in order to obtain larger amounts of Timber for making ships and musket stocks

@@dragoninthewest1 would be really nice

@@gaigairka6811 Hm... don't know about that...his student Hideyoshi did tried it..the Koreans did held off the naval invasion due to Yi sun shin (Korean admiral and tactician).. Also Chinese Ming did helped against Japanese as well.. Ming wasn't weak.

Unlikely, but could happen I guess

Florida would be your timeline's "Ukraine" Key West would be Crimea.

A breakup of the USA might just still happen. The country is deeply divided at this moment in time.

Instead of nationalistic division (North vs South), America would have to collapse because of economic disaster and ideological conflict, obviously started by the USSR and more serious Russian intervention in the elections. I think the only way for this to happen is if the US either stays isolationist during WW2 or somehow Communism overthrows many more countries than they did. If nations almost unanimously close their markets to the US, then I could see a US civil war/ collapse as a superpower.

Respect ForAll he said at the time are you blind

Maybe because, Greeks were not a major political force after Alexander, anymore!

​@@nomesa7374 What. Alexanders conquest was the time when the Greeks actually became the domintant power... Ever heard of the Helenistic era? The time between Alexander and the conquest of the eastern mediterranean by the Romans? When Greeks were at their all time height as far as politcal power and influence goes? Greeks were the major power in the Eastern Mediteranean and Persia from Alexanders conquest until all the Successor states were conquered by Rome 200-250 years later... Seleucid Persia was technically conquered by the Parthians from within, but only after the Seleucid Empire had been greatly weakened after losing wars and territory in Anatolia to the Romans. Sure, Classical Greece (the period with Athens, Sparta and the Persian wars) might have had a bigger lasting legacy, but their politcal power in this time was very weak compared to what it was in the later Helenistic era.

@@Melodeath00 Hellenistic period was after the first Persian Empire. So if Persians had conquered Greece, that Hellenistic period wouldnt probably be there, in the first place. Also, Selucids were Persian in culture and administrative style. Only in language (and that of only the ruling class) were Greeks. Just like Abbasids Arabs who were more Persian in culture (to the extend that the name of their capital, Baghdad is Mithraic Persian). So I wouldnt call Selucids as Greek political force. Hellenists of Egypt and Mediterranean were Greeks ! Beside, Classical Greece was not more powerful (culturally and politically) than Mesopotamia and Egypt.

@@nomesa7374 by any way of looking the Seleucids you can never claim them to be Persians. The were quite "purists" that used the persian administration but they should not be confused with Persian Kingdom as they weren't they were even more "Greek" than the greeks in Egypt

@@Balajohn_ They celebrated Persian Nowruz, Mehrgan, and Yalda and valued them above all celebrations. Their administration was Persian Satrap-based. They used Persian as the dominant language in art, science, and culture. They viewed Zarathustra as important as Socrates (and Plato and Aristotle), and respected King Cyrus as equal to Alexander. They used Persian costumes, cuisine, and architecture ... And finally, they had "almost" zero influence on the whole country's culture. These are all contrary to Egyptian Greeks. Then please tell me, how were they "more greeks" than Egyptian Greeks?

Here's an idea .... do it yourself!!!

@@sakr-el-bahr272 Have to agree with you

If he wasn't too busy licking Antonina's feet that is.

Ah some fellow achemenid fans who respect them and doesn't believe in western propaganda

One of those has been made

So, had we won, you would've won too, but in our timeline, we lost to you, and then you lost everything... Damn, karma is a bad bitch, eh?!

Even by giving up Greece?

Yes true. But there are some accounts. Not many as Zoroastrianism isn't a proselytizing faith. Accounts and records of it however does exist. Typically in Arabia, Mesopotamia, Levant and the Caucasus. And virtually non outside of the heartland of lands stereotypically Iranian (usually Persian) sphere. So practically little to non outside of Iran let alone zero beyond Persian controlled lands. With the exceptions of the Sassanids who at some points of their reign have tried to convert some villages and towns in Mesopotamia into Zoroastrianism.

The Roman army was not the in 450 AD as it was 50 BC. The same goes for the Germanic tribes.

The Gauls are a Celtic people you realize?

This is a stupid comment, the germanic tribes didnt beat the romans every time they met, that is stupid, the romans genocided the hell out of germania for an insane ammount of time, the germans only beat the romans in the exceptional battle of teutburg and during the last declining years of the empire, when the germans literally were the roman army.

@@marcossidoruk8033 thank you for calling me stupid. Naturally you are right that in the 450ish years where Germania wasn't conquered, between the defeat in teutenberg in 9ad, and the decline of Rome in 476, this was the only outlier. That's why Rome didn't conquer them! Not in the years under August with the germanicus campaign which was a failure, more when Rome was their strongest under Sulla, nor when in the push for the largest extend under Trajan. Is that the decline you're talking about? GTFO you muppet

@@baumulrich in fact rome did conquer the western parts of germania, everybody knows that. Every roman campaign towards germania during the good days of rome, with the exception of the 9AD one, ended in genocide towards germans, caesars campaign, germanicus campaign etc. Rome never conquered the whole of germania not because they couldnt kill all of them, wich they could, but because there was no point, not even augustus wanted to conquer all of germania. I hope you understand why I call you idiot, the statement "germans beat romans every time they encountered" is a huge ass lie. The germanicus campaign you mentioned as "being a faliure" is a perfect example, there is a reason why he is called germanicus, go reading about that campaign and then come back lol.

Yeah the Greeks were really good at fighting rome conquered them because they were weakened from the phoenician wars

Macedonia wasn't Greek tho. They were Hellenized later.

@@AfroAsiaticLanguagesthe Macedonians were Doric Greeks like the Spartans

@@starman1144 No, they were Hellenized.

@@AfroAsiaticLanguages They were Greeks , saying otherwise is just stupid. Their culture, language and everything was Greek.

honestly... it's because it'sthe Kurds who get literally all the attention

Yeah, there's a lot of assyrians in the area around Stockholm

They have been greatly reduced in number however. Also, their homeland is freaking Kurdish now

@@islamisthetruth3402 Lol. You're Arab I assume. And btw i guess you don't know but the homeland of the Assyrians is in iraq not Syria, which is derived from Assyria so the Syrian people actually stole the name. they're just arabs.

Actually Western and Eastern culture was uniting at the borders of Greece and Persia and the architecture was similar.

Etruscans weren't in Corsica by then

Either way, it's crazy that The Greeks reached so far West. I've never been able to wrap my head around how Alexander's empire happened before the Roman Empire...

@@grubbybum3614 he's talking about leonidas and 300 spartans not alexander the great.

@@TheKadanz yeah, I just wanted to hijack a popular comment to say that.

@@grubbybum3614 do you mean so far east xd

@@themanwiththeplan1401 oops.

I think what he is trying to say is: the Persians had massive buffs to cultureconversions. The Ottomans I don't know

Tell that to half the Greeks in Anatolia who did convert. The remainder only survived due to the rise of nationalism, population, and the lack of trying.

@@javanmills6152 That's the thing, they didn't. They actually survived but were only recently forced to come to Greece as part of a trade of population with Turkey. This was a big thing in Greek history and those Greek refugees were treated like shit. Athens nowadays has districts named after cities in Anatolia (for example New Smyrna, New Ionia)

also remember that this would be happening before the greeks can even form a unified identiy, (which the persian wars themselves helped cause), which meant there is no real resistance from a cutural standpoint

@@jt2197 Ottomans were not successful in cultural conversions of people. If it was not for the WWI, Turkey would have gradually been the place of Armenians, Kurds and Persians. So, greeks not losing their identity to Ottomans, is not a viable evidence that such things could not have happened to Persians! I think!

Not much would've changed. Maybe there would be a few more centrists and right wingers in the Polish government right after the war, but the country would still get stalinized by the 1950s. "What if the Warsaw Uprising did not happen" would be more interesting imho

Ooo, more migration, more tolerance perhaps as Chinese become viewed as Americans.

Well you know how Texas has a hybrid Hispanic/Anglo culture? California and maybe Washington would be like that except. Sino/Anglo instead of Hispanic/Anglo it'd be pretty cool

Pretty sure he was talking about Corsica.

That was the least of the problems with this video. ;)

Alexander style*

SQ Wong if the soviets invaded a few years earlier, they would have met more resistance from Afghans as there was no Afghan communist government and army to back them up

but not culturally

because the germanic people lived in an isolated part of the continent at that time. All the activity was around the mediteranean.

You won with high austerity measures

We won in the real timeline, so alt histories are gonna be different. :D

Yes but you retain your "no sense of humor" trait in any timeline

You seem to have a good knowledge on Persian culture! ;) "Even after the Muslim expansion and the conquests ": Even the name Baghdad, the capital of Arabic empire (their most important city) is neither Arabic, nor Islamic. It is Mithraic Persian (let alone the art, music, architecture, academies, philosophies, ...). They neutralized Islam from very early on. If it was not for continuous Turkic invasions of Iran, Islam (as political and cultural force) would have been gone! Turkic tribes were the main fond of Islam in Iran.

DAS I read the Avestas and personally practice Zoroastrianism so I like to imagine I know a solid bunch of Persian culture even if I wasn't born in Iran. While I personally do not follow (or agree with all of) Islam’s teachings I don't think it's inclusion to the Persian canon is a bad thing. In truth, I think it's adoption by Iranians and it's adaptation to Iranian customs makes for the most intellectual and forward-thinking branch of Islam. I mean, if you think about how drastically Christianity basically replaced *hundreds* of distinct European cultures the fact that Iran has been able to maintain its identity as a unique nation even when the likes of Egypt, Iraq, and Syria (homes to three of the oldest civilizations in history) are relatively interchangeable when speaking about customs and culture. So fascinating

@@islamisthetruth3402 "Yes"? Are you talking to me? Which part of my comment you are answering? I did not talk about Russia and USA or Oil here.

@@Archer-1453 Also, Iran maintained her identity because of Islam? I think your knowledge is superficial! Sufism, Shahname, Hafez, Nowruz, music, architecture, and art helped to maintaining Iranian identity. These have nothing to do with Islam. ;)

Bruh

Then we would say : Greek ? Is that an insult ??

I do not know about the first two, but regarding "what if timur the lame did not die on his way to China". I would not see much difference. At most he could became like Genkiz the plunder, but still being faded away soon.

Me too

Yeah they all seem inspired by enlightenment/renaissance philosophy which took inspiration from classical times

Same. There's no logic in the claim that we are based on a "Judeo-Christian" system. It's clearly Graeco-Roman that influences The West.

@@grubbybum3614 That is not what we are saying. We are saying that democracy came from the ancient Greek democracy/republics, not by aristocratic "parliaments" as the youtuber says. As for the west we are based on Greek civilization, Roman law and the Christian faith.

@@teyrncousland7152 Ikr, look at our government system. It surely is inspired from the Romans. Pretty nice tho, their legacy goes on.

Considering together with other central asian nomads they formed empires like scythians,xiongnu, huns etc. in their early history and in their later history they formed empires like mamluks, safavids, mughals etc. together with other muslim peoples and not even mentioning their much more indigenous empires like ottomans, gokturks and timurids etc, history would be effected much more effected than just pontic greeks, cappadoicans and caucasian albanians (but those people would still probably be very important in their home regions)

@@zgramzhnisk3036 Yeah, I wasn't even scratching the surface there.

@@byzantinemapper6145 it would probably (if something like 4th crusade doesn't happen) result in byzantine empire lasting to the modern day. They fought off so many invaders I don't think another 600 years would be a problem to them

@@zgramzhnisk3036 I agree, based on just HOW MANY alternate histories out there have the Byzantines survive to this day. They were truly badass and tough to conquer.

I've basically made that video. It's called 'What if the Byzantine Empire Survived".

@@Wood97718 Hi. I bet you don't know that after battle of 484 ad, Khosrau I defeated Hephthalites in a cooperation with turks and vanished their country. Then Sassanid empire faced with turks and there was 3 battles between them and one of these battles was in 588 ad and the result of this battle was overwhelming Sassanid victory! in this battle King of turks and his son were killed by Sassanid troops. I doubt that Sassanid empire last for long years, finally even if there was not an attack by arabs, an internal commander fron one of seven great houses of Iran rose up against Sassanids and took the throne. But in this way Iran was more developed both in military and science. Iranian king and ministers were more intelligent than khwarezmid dynasty's Kings to let mongols attack their country. If you don't know the reason of mongols to attack khwarezmid dynasty I don't blame you. If you knew the main reason of mongol attack to khwarezmid dynasty you knew that it was very easy to stop their attack. At the end I should say I'm not muslim and also not believed in ant other religion

I find this strange too, since syracuse was historically settled by athenian colonists. It would make sense for the Athenians to relocate there.

@@TheKadanz APC219 Syracuse was built by the city-state of Corinth, not by Athens.. The Corinthians and the Athenians were enemies because both were naval powers. I think in Corsica, Athens had a small trade colony.. The Greeks wouldn't have settled all together in one region if the Persians had defeated them. Each city-state had its own colonies in the Mediterranean, so each city-state would have settled in a different coastal city of the Western Mediterranean.

What about Rome/Constantinople

Shadow Guardian Baghdad was sacked when it was the largest and most important city on the planet, it was literally the academic center of the World at the time and the Mongols destroyed it all. They were like a medieval nuclear war that just devastated the planet