Hello, Sir Tale. I've been following you for awhile and this topic has fascinated and scared me in equal measure. If you follow the story of Final Fantasy XIV, there is an expansion that explores this concept at the apex of its story. It is hauntingly beautiful.
Surprised you didn't mention the patch of sidewalk grass that nobody has ever stepped on in the last 17000 years, and the guy who cuts the grass uses a ride-on mower so he never has stepped on it either. I really like that part. It highlights how routinesque life has become.
@@TheTaleFoundryfeels like the origin of that Star Trek TNG episode with the Space Mormons that love sex and put ppl to death for disturbing this one particular patch of flowers.
How long until someone hears about this sidewalk grass, spends the next few dozen years building a tower next to it, and then jump off the tower hoping to "step" on the grass so hard it leaves a crater? (It's not like such a fall you kill you in this world.)
One small criticism I have with this type of stories about immortality is that the immortals remember what happened thousands of years past. I can't even remember what I ate for lunch a week ago. I think people would forget what happened or what they've done if enough time passed. Remembering more than that, is a super power by itself.
Perhaps whatever gave them immortality, or the nanomachines, extended their memory capacities. Though you are correct, at some point the people won't remember everything
I understand, but I don't really care much about it since this stories are usually less science fiction and more philosophical tales trying to carry across a point, or reflect about something, same way one probably shouldn't ask why in Socrates cavern would there be people abducting people and making them believe shadows are the real world Edit: It's Plato's cave not Socrates, I got the master and the pupil mixed up
YES, more people needed to hear about 17776, and it's sequel 20020. Legitimately one of the most creative stories I've read, and one of the few I've read multiple times. I'm so glad you did a video on it.
I've read/watched 17776 several times over the last few years, that's how much I love it, but I only recently discovered that 20020 existed; I've got it bookmarked for a rainy day... 😜
This is just stupid, because if you consider neuron-alteration and bio-engineering, therefore you need do consider the fact that their behaviours can just be changed so they'll never experience boredom.
I thought the world of 17776 was really boring (although the idea and execution was really creative). That they never changed anything or wanted anything to change, and presumably even worked to keep things unchanged (for instance a regular apartment building made to last 50 years was still standing 17000 years later, it had to have been rebuilt exactly the same way thousands of times). But I guess since the humans were no longer changing, it kind of made sense that their world wouldn’t change either.
@@iotaayushshrivastava114the sequel i think is more focused on the insane football game JUICE made rather than the philosophy of humanity stuck in basically purgatory
This still felt very much like a disguised dystopia, but I did like the part about finding joy in the small things regardless of how insignificant they are.
Well its really one way a dystopia is defined, tbh if you find other definitions, similar philosophical points would likely bring it down for other people. Many of us dont think the same way and a perfect world for one is not the same for another. This is why true utopias would be etherial as in we cant live in it.
Lack of conflict does not equal boredom. Without the constant stress of physical survival, I would write books, make games, become an expert woodworker, get a masters in horticulture then another in astrophysics. I could fill a century just with the random things in my head right now. I would bet that 10,000 years would go by and I would still have a ton of things left on my to-do list.
@@hen-nt1cl I encourage you to give it a try. Imho it's very well written. The characters being bored doesn't mean you will be. Otherwise you'll miss the chapter that is a funeral for a light bulb.
when you actually become imortal you maybe think, I do I need to do all of this? I will forget, or why should I do that now? I have infinite time ahead... Like infinite procrastinations
I couldn't help but imagine spending my eternity building shit in Minecraft. With all that time on your hands you could actually explore every inch of the world and even use up all the resources and cover every inch of it with cool builds
I'd spend so much time catching up on art. I'd play my backlog, I'd read my backlog. Those shows that have been on my watchlist since 2008? Time to get started.
I think another fascinating look at a utopian future that's really, truly a utopia is Becky Chambers' _A Psalm for the Wild-Built._ It is set in a solarpunk world where people no longer have a monetary system, where everyone has food, water, and lodging, and where crime is unheard of because everybody is always looked after and genuinely cared for. And yet, the main character of the story still feels distress when they wake up every morning. The book is about their own personal journey to understand their purpose in life, and what it means to *have* a purpose in life, and whether they *need* a purpose in life, and it's delightful. It also features a wonderful robot character who actually reminds me a lot of you, Tale Foundry! Its name is Mosscap and it's such a great character :) EDIT: A quick internet search yields that the name of this channel's host robot is Talebot. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I addressed them using their channel title because I wasn't aware of any other name for them :)
@@laayiv9449 I do not know the host's name, so I just referred to them by their channel name. Now I'm genuinely curious, though: does Tale Foundry host-bot have a name?
@@laayiv9449 After a quick google, it would seem they refer to themselves as Talebot from what I can tell. I'll add a clarifying edit to the original comment
I've always felt that a 'perfect paradise' isn't one where there is no conflict and no want, but rather one that *always* resolves it - there's never any loose ends, there's never any dissatisfaction. Because otherwise, it's not perfect because people would get bored, and then there's want and conflict again against the very idea. A perfect world isn't one where you are just given what you want, but a world where absolutely everyone gets what they want after working for it, and it is engineered to feel satisfying to their level of desire and effort.
I think the perfect world wouldn't have the ultimate problem to solve rather than find a solution for everything and when that's done man kind could spread creativity through all the world😊
In my opinion, any attempt to design a "perfect world" will eventually run into the same problem: human perception is finite while perfection is infinite. After a million years, a billion years, whatever, some imperceptible flaw in the design will have grown to destroy it in its entirety. You cannot plan for everything simply because it would take forever to make the plan.
It’s was designed to be boring because that was their hell. The idea of the show was that killing and stabbing and being scared forever isn’t the only torturing method in hell, infinite boredom is another way of torturing in hell.
@@foodybreezy4964 No, in the 4th season at the end when the 4 *actually* went to heaven, it turned out that heaven wasn't perfect, rather extremely boring for people who've already experienced everything they've wanted so have nothing left
I feel like everyone would take to weird LARPing with like d&d villages, actual piracy making a comeback, weird cyberpunk cities, and a petition every ten years to make evil robot dragons just to have something bad
This sounds like a world where artists and fiction writers would be the most valuable people in society, and we would have unlimited time to dedicate to our crafts. I could actually write my novels without having to dedicate time to earning enough money to survive.
Isn’t there a thing where without conflict there can be no story? Add the limits of human imagination given no new stimuli or experiences can really dull out the mind and have creators run out of fresh ideas in a few years let along 17000 years
@@Bluepizza1684judging by the fact every year people gather around and read slightly different versions of the same stories, proves most people don't care a lot about things being completely new, originality can come from a place as small as slightly different characters, or the new perspective a writer had in the specific moment they wrote each word, we are humans, the only way we can repeat ourselves is by actively copying our past selves. At least that's what I think
@@jstcb i have said this in another comment but if we have infinet time, why not just make our own universe, and then make more, and keep going until we brake something important and physics collapse on themselves, I mean it would be cool and if we had nothing left to lose
Life is already boring, at least I wouldn't also be constantly stressed. We stagnate in real life often because we have to do the same thing day in day out and never have time for things we'd like to do or learn or create etc. or because of depression or other problems. Feeling like there's no point because we'll never have time, not the opposite.
This is like playing an open world single player video game. At first I want to do everything, explore every inch. Get to know the map and it’s secrets. Eventually you do, and you get everything your character could possibly want. At that point I quit the game and never play it again.
This sort of makes me think of Rain World. The Ancients were stuck in an endless cycle, and wanted nothing but a way out. If they died, they’d come back, endlessly. They achieved incredible things, all in the effort of finding a way to die and stay dead, a way to completely disappear forever, and end that endless cycle. Conversely, ask any Houseki no Kuni (aka Land of the Lustrous) fan what they think, and they’ll tell you they would’ve wanted nothing more than the story of the Gems to go on endlessly, free of the suffering that plagues them. I’m personally a fan of both, though a much bigger one for the latter. My take on an endless life of stagnation is that l don’t think I would mind it as much as one may think. I’d have endless time to do anything I’d ever want to do, and once I’ve done everything, I’d come up with something new. For the things I already know, I could learn them even better. In a world without death and with endless time, I see it as a world without the dread of an ever-approaching ending.
I resonate with you. I’ve always had a different take on immortality being a miserable thing to experience, for the same reasons you stated; I love you put it! With an endless amount of time, I could… literally achieve whatever i desired! And… that just sounds really cool :)
Does Land of the Lustrous deal with these topics? I'm a huge fan of both 17776 and Rain World, and I would love to see more stories that tackle the same topics.
@@parchmentengineer8169gems are not humans and do not suffer from boredom. SPOILER! . . . . . . . . . Moonians on the other hand was humans a long time ago and suffer
people underastimate how adaptable humans are, including living in a new forever routine first decade? turbulanse strife and depression in some cases millions years after? just a nice slice of life that doesnt HAVE to end
If by utopia you mean the society that lives in it, then it is not possible. Unless you change the supposed "flawed nature" of human beings and their feelings, you will never reach a true utopic society. A utopian land is more than possible, but there are no utopian humans. Because to be flawed is to be human.
You make immortality sound like a mental illness. We live our lives one day at a time. You have a schedule, you have friends, you have far too many things to do at any given day. How many days there are is completely irrelevant to that. Unlimited time means you can come up with an unlimited number of things to do. And that number will always be larger than the numbers of hours in a day permit.
@@robbieaulia6462 More than dumb, i would say silly, but yes, inmortality would break most rational minds, there is only so much to learn or do before you're left with only what you can come up with.
@@Alexander_Kale In way yes, our mids are not made for inmortality, we cant really understand the meaning of infinite, and an infinite lifespawn would end up breaking our models and perceptions of reality. To live as an inmortal one would have to develop a mentality that to us sounds like madness.
“A thing isn’t beautiful because it last” and this story I feel describes why this is true in a good way, thank you tale foundry for introducing another great story to us
People asking why, in their immortality, humans didn’t do other things. The answer is simple: John Bois wanted to write about two things. Those two things are the human experience and playing football forever.
A wise man once said "Living forever means having enough time to explore the world so thoroughly that you could consider each and every blade of grass a landmark" That wise man is me. I thought of it while on a walk the other day.
You my friend are not wise. Because if you lived that long and saw every single blade of grass on the planet (not mentioning that plants grow and die over time, and you're not everywhere all at the same time, constantly watching all things) you'd have probably left the planet at some point. Or spent enough time on it, for entirely new continents begin to form and change.
I think this might be my favorite Tale Foundry video. Not 100% sure, but I don’t think immortality would be a curse unless I couldn’t sleep and/or forget.
The author of 17776 is a captivating and mesmerizing storyteller. I got into him from watching his youtube videos telling great sports stories, and despite not caring terribly much about the sports, that was enough to make me read 17776 even though I knew it was about the future of football. I was not disappointed!
Reading 17776, i was surprised to see how few humans in that setting focused on creating really wild and elaborate art projects. I mean that's what i would do if i didn't have to worry about money, food, or healthcare.
I would argue with absolutely no want, there’s no suffering, and therefore no passion (pasio being a root word meaning “to suffer”), and therefore no art. Sure u could just make shit forever. But it would really mean nothing.
Im not immortal, so obviously I don’t know how this would really hold up, but I love the idea of getting to live forever with everyone else, and just. Hang out. Get as good as I’d like to at everything, make lots of art, get ideas for more art from the art I just made, etc. Etc.
Genuinely I think if I had to live in any fictional world, it would have to be 17776. Any other world would be cooler, but it would always be finite. This world is still more than cool enough, so why not just hang out here forever?
@@vaelegoro7782 That implies that our current copyright system will quite literally last forever, which is an absurd idea. Obviously our system would eventually be changed in order to accommodate immortality.
17776 is one of my favorite works I've ever consumed. I would say 'read' except it isn't just an act of reading. I don't even remember how I found out about it, but I absolutely love it.
I love pretty much everything Jon Bois does, including this. Even if you don’t care about sports or even the specific sports he’s talking about in a given video, his storytelling style is just incredible. He makes it worth it
I retired 2 months ago, I have all the money I'll ever need, a nice home in a lovely, safe community, I'm in perfect health, the kids are grown, my wife is gone, I have nothing to do but enjoy life-- but I'm bored.
Boredom is perhaps the the feeling humans wish to avoid the single most, to the point where people, if given no other options, will cause themselves pain rather than be bored, and if left with nothing to do the human mind will literally tear itself apart. You know what's ironic? an existence like this was what I imagined Hell to be like, no pain or suffering, at least not physical, instead it's an existence where you can do nothing and nothing happens, an eternity of nothingness that you are forced to experience from the rest of time.
This is why, in The Divine Comedy, Limbo is simultaneously part of and not part of hell. There is no punishment, and that’s punishment in and of itself.
@@reverbthevocal421 Is that the purgatory part or was that the upper most level where the people born before jesus, and thus couldn't be saved, went because they also couldn't be sent to hell for something they couldn't be saved from?
@@reverbthevocal421 Ah, so it's the island in the center of the ring where those people who died before jesus was born are and they aren't allowed to leave it but don't suffer torture.
Honestly, the worst part of boredom is thinking that you should be doing something with the limited time you have. Boredom wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem if you know it isn't eating to time you could've spent doing something else. If I was bored in such a world, I would honestly just lie on the floor and either stare at the ceiling, or close my eyes and listen to anything making sound in the vicinity. At that point it's not really boredom anymore and is honestly more like meditating.
This reminds me of the last season of The Good Place, where the people in paradise just became mindless zombies out of boredom and the new system they created to fix that
@seekerofthemutablebalance5228 really? I genuine thought it was one of the most realistic yet beautiful endings to a show I've ever seen. What about it did you find depressing?
There's a short story by Jorge Luis Borges, _The Immortal,_ that summarizes this kind of immortality and the ennui it creates. But it's the final, horrifying twist, instead of the primary conflict. I also enjoyed how Ursula K. LeGuin handled the problem in her semi-utopia, _Always Coming Home:_ while the people of the Kesh society live in a mostly-idyllic post-collapse society that makes it difficult for them to understand why pre-collapse civilzations (like our own) were so self-destructive, they are still _people._ Even though inequality, oppression, and violence have been minimized, individual people still act badly and create problems for themselves and others. There is still wilful ignorance and pointless unkindness, and children still need to learn the hard way how to live a good life. I was once inspired to write a short story similar to 17776, by a silly bit of futurism written by a young Arthur C. Clarke, in the 1960s. But it's difficult to comprehend an utterly safe society, and how someone might try to create adventures for themselves in a world where even the slightest risk is automatically prevented... I'm still trying, though.
I remember a comic that humanity go extinct after achieving a utopic state, and creating a different simulated universe, with more difficult laws of physics, all so they can have something to solve. They eventually go extinct after that, because they didn’t have any offspring. It follows evolved creatures 50000 years after that event
Final Fantasy 14 actually explored these concepts relatively recently as well. There was a world mentioned where the people achieved perfection, and having done so, they became apathetic and created a creature to kill them all.
A lot of stories investigate that point of view, it's fairly common, what makes 17776 special is how no one really explores the desire to end that apathy is more about discovering a purpose where there is none, what do you do when you are no longer needed? Way to often it's turned into a cautionary tale and the answer is "there is nothing left, we must regain our mortality" I find that point of view relatively simple and overdone by comparison
@@Solstice261 It may be overdone but that's most likely what would happen. Hell we haven't solved half of the issues and people are already going crazy.
I was wondering if someone would notice my little contribution to this very limited genre. I loved 17776 myself but I thought we would probably figure out a way to fuck it up more badly than that, being you know humans.
Here's the difference - basically no one in this story actually wants to die. The issue with Rain World's Ancients is that they **did** experience external suffering - they still struggled against each other, still experienced pain, still died and had to be reborn again. Many of them wanted a life free from suffering, and since they believed that life was itself an endless cycle of suffering, they were willing to do anything to escape that cycle. On the other hand, the people of 17776 have come to the conclusion that life simply is, and it's not going anywhere, so what's next?
@@parchmentengineer8169 It's simply stupid, because if we consider the alteration of neurons and bio-engineering, we have to consider the fact that their behaviour can simply be modified so that they never experience boredom. --> On the other hand, the search for truth, the search for a purpose in life, is a purpose in itself!
I love how I instantly knew what you were talking about. I haven't thought about 17776 in a long time. You did skip out from my favorite part of future football, where one of the star quarterbacks threw themselves into a tornado to launch themselves miles ahead.
Eating a bacon egg sandwich while watching this, excited to hear the story it sounds super interesting. Edit: I have now watched the video completely, and I was correct because it was great
I have never understood people who say, "Immortality is a curse, with infinite time you will eventually grow bored." That really seems like the sentiment of uncreative people. People who create will always want to create more. Art is fleeting and is never finished. Writers will always want to write about new ideas, thoughts, or experiences. Others may want to read, discuss, adapt, or interpret such works. Unless the world becomes physically static, there will always be new things to depict, even if the base seems plain, the work can be complex. Paintings to paint, stories to share, foods to taste, music to hear, games to play, jokes to tell, people to meet, languages to learn, mountains to climb. Even if you have done it before, you may not have done it with those people, or in this season, or wearing that shirt. People can watch the same movie or show or read the same book or website numerous times and get something new out of it on each subsequent viewing. Even if you met and got to know one new person a day for the rest of eternity, from the currently living population alone, it would take nearly 22 million years to meet every single person on earth. Immortality is only as boring and bland as you let it be.
unfortunately there's only so many combinations of fundamental particles so we will eventually run out of things to do. this is of course assuming we never figure out how to alter the laws of physics.
I mean, supposing infinite time, eventually you'll create everything there is to create, you'll learn everything there is to learn, you'll do everything there is to do.
Universe is limited in it's existence and there are obstacles that we won't be able to jump through like peaking what is inside of the blackhole or we won't be able to move outside of earth because of dangers that are unpredictable or just simple human miscalculations and speed it takes to travel. Would our bodies be able to adapt to those speeds and dangers that await outside?
id love to create stuff for my 1338 ocs, and itll take me 70 fun years to do so and i can just create moovies, fanfics, new ocs abt em in a never ending loop, with TIME finaly not being one of theese bars you contantly have to worry about
The 4/6 of this video reminded us about Frieren an anime about an elf with a long live that focuse on the little parts of life but is also about a journey.
No surprise such a terrifyingly great story would come from a football site lol. Jocks are some of the biggest nerds out there and football is truly a sport of nerds. The fact that Nebraska is a giant gridiron is pretty dope and I feel like the author is a Husker fan. Great video as always!
It's called "Cities without people" I really recommend it. It ties in Microsoft Flight Simulator, Ubiquity of cars, Climate change, and Football 17776.@@parchmentengineer8169
as soon as you started talking about not having any problems, and where the conflict comes from, it reminded me of one punch man. he is so powerful nothing challenges him and he's super bored
I suddenly remembered how I got emotional about the Centennial Lightbulb being hit by a meteorite or something. And how this was devastating news for the people of this world. A light bulb that still burns today after near constant use since 1901, the idea of it still burning thousands of years later, only to finally be extinguished by a random accident, it nearly moved me to tears. It feels silly. But, to be honest, if it does go out in my lifetime, I'll get upset. It's a symbol. A quiet condemnation of planned obsolescence.
“A thing isn’t beautiful because it last” and this story I feel describes why this is true in a good way, thank you tale foundry for introducing another great story to us
Except that line of thinking is a fallacy. Many beautiful things last, and them lasting isn't why they're beautiful. It would be more accurate to say that things that don't last are not beautiful because they last, like a firework, a fruit, a flower, or food, whereas other things are beautiful for other reason, but do last. Nothing lasts indefinitely, but compared to a blueberry, a pyramid certainly seems to persist a lot longer, and to a degree, one could argue that persistence adds to the beauty of the pyramids. The trick is to make something that lasts, and then make it beautiful. For example, an immortal human would be beautiful. A star that lasts billions and billions of years is equally beautiful. Even after the star is gone, it leaves behind beauty that goes on to last another billion billion years. Not everything has to have its beauty tied to its impermanence, that's simply irrational.
@@lexruptor that line of thinking makes sense, but I don't think the quote was saying "if it last a long time/forever, it isn't beautiful." It's saying that beauty and permanence have no ties, that it takes other factors such as the magnificence of a pyramid or the size and light of a star to be beautiful. If I recall correctly, this quote is from Avengers, where Vision is talking to Ultron in his final moments. Ultron sought to make the world permanent by ending all life, as he feared humanity and life sought to eat away at the world until it was nothing more than a husk. Vision says the reason why Earth is so special is because life exists on it, so the concept of destroying all life to preserve the Earth is defeating the purpose in the first place. If we find a way to make the world last longer, than that's a good thing. But that's not what will makes it special. The quote is, in a way, proving the same point you are.
@@kidwhat6664 but certainly, something being old, eternal even presents a kind of eldritch uncanny beauty, something that has been unchanged, for thousands of years, there is a beauty in age, experience, permanence, stability even stagnation. The same way you may see beauty in shortness, intensity, impact, things that can really only come from short interaction, from not being able to appreciate in detail in opposition to being able to know every detail, they all have a beauty of some sort
@@Solstice261 In a way, yes, you're right. Part of the reason why trees are so interesting to us is because they can live for hundreds of years. But I think the fascination felt for something that lasts a very long time comes from it still existing, if that makes sense. For example, there are some stars that existed for billions of years, but are now nothing but stardust and other objects. It's neat to think about what they would have looked like, where they might have been, what could have been floating around them, but that's just it. Their beauty is simply what we can deduce from them. Now, take a star that has existed that long but does exist today, and it's an entirely different story. We can see what is floating around it, the color it burns, the trajectory across the cosmos it flies. Both stars may have lasted the same length, but if we view them with different levels of interest and the only thing separating them is whether we can see them, then their age was not what was fascinating to begin with.
"there is only this, forever". Welcome to life, buddy. It's always the same. Eternal life is no more intimidating or terrifying than life now. You'll wake up, go to work, work, come home, go to sleep, rinse repeat.
I've never understood the idea of how such a life could be "boring." All the places to go. All the things to do and see.The books to read. The movies and shows and plays to watch. The skills to learn. The projects to build and the art to create. Singing and dancing and going to concerts. The people to meet and hopefully befriend. Even with endless time and resources, and no deadly dull means of survival job to hold me back, I do not believe I could ever run out of things to do, even assuming this is the only planet worth being on.
I have always rebelled against the idea that we need problems to be happy. I know some people seem to believe this, and they seek drama, but I've found that a story can also be about living, learning and discovering. I have told many stories where there was no conflict, just people playing around with a teleporter, a space ship, or just getting on an airplane and traveling to a far away place. The story is made interesting by the things they see along the way. And the beauty of this is that we will never run out of things to learn. Even if civilization spreads across the universe, each individual person will always have more to learn. We don't need conflict to fascinate us we just need, contrast, novelty and humor.
I find this view a little shortsighted. There is infinite capacity for human creativity. Most people today don't really get to embrace that and create things all their lives, but with nothing else to do many if not most of us would. And even if you live forever, you can't be everywhere at once. Things will happen across the world and you'll have to pick which ones to be present for
Kinda unrelated but there's plot thread in Foundation about Genetic Dynasty where each emperor is clone of Cleon The First. They are all the same people. And they are terrified that they might not be 100% authentic copies. According to one of the major religions stagnation is death of a soul. They have entire argument about Genetic Dynasty being soulless monsters. (and after watching what Emperors are capable of I can't disagree)
This story seems kind of similar to the story of Rain World. Its a survival video game where nothing can die, instead they just respawn (taking the classic game mechanic and connecting it to the story) and your goal is basically to figure out a way to die permanently. As far as I can tell its also inspired by the Buddhist idea of nirvana, with one of the playable characters working as a sort of bodhisattva. Rain World and 17776 seem to take very different approaches to the idea of what to do if you cant die. I just thought I would bring it up since you didnt seem to know about it.
This kind of reminds me of a short story I read in the 80's. Don't remember the title or the magazine it was in. It was about a drug for immortality being discovered in the gut of pigs in the late 1800's. Because everyone could live for hundreds or thousands of years, they became more cautious. There was even a Noble prize for Safety. One man had the drug given to him when he was 12 and so always appeared to be twelve. In the end, due to accidental deaths and humans being bored, he ended up being the last human on earth and was visited by an alien from another star. BTW, I have just started watching your videos. Very well done and insightful. Thanks!
I know another story that takes place in a real utopia but is still interesting. "A psalm for the wild-build". It's about a robot and a monk who travel through the wilderness together and philosophize about the meaning of life. It takes place in a solarpunk world in which everyone has what they need and everyone has a meaningful task. It's a lot about how hard it is to find a place in life that you're happy with. You can have a job that's fun and that you're really good at and still be unhappy.
One thing that also potentially undermines the utopian angle is that the lack of changeover from generation to generation will lead to a stagnation in ideas, and assuming the older folks are of a conservative mindset and already feeling hopeless, it might just lead to a kind of millennarian movement that wants to effectively bring about armaggedon. That would make a good commentary on modern Christian nationalism and its tendency, from my perspective, to advocate for policies that seemingly set up the rapture (you can't convince me otherwise that THAT particular kind of Christian are anything except members of a death cult).
I've discussed how to write a story without the possibility of death or significant harm. My approach is two people (or groups) have a disagreement on what the best course of action is, say building a bridge vs. tunnel to get to a destination. Either are functionally correct for different reasons. There can be conflict without the threat of significant harm.
I see here a very big plot hole. Did the author creating a story forgot about one thing, that people can do forever? A thing, that everyone has in himself and thing, that whatever you do never gets boring? I am talking about creation. Like... Can you run out of things you can make? Can you make everything in existence? The games, that one thing. But what about books and movies? What could manga look like, if each panel could be in making by one million years? I don't believe in the idea of being bored for eternity. There will be always something to do, and if not, there is always something to made, so you can do it. In my perspective, if you are bored, you are just lazy. And... You can't be lazy forever, right?
if the sports in this world are any indication, their media would also be equally insane. I'm talking giant epics filled with at least 8 different conlangs you have to learn in order to read, endless crossovers and remixes of movies and series that become a gigantic interconnected web of tales, video games so complex that they take several miles of super computers in order to run and so much more. It's bewildering just to think about it.
This trope is soo underused. I only know of 17776, an SCP story called "E is for Eternity", and maybe "Friday Black" counts? There's so much room for horror stories and scifi/fantasy and all sorts of genres.
E is for Eternity terrifies me a lot more than 17776 actually. 17776 seems like a relatively chill place to be forever - you get to hang out infinitely, and the chance for new stimuli exponentially increases the more humans we throw into the equation. E is for Eternity is just that - an eternal sunny island with nobody to speak to and virtually nothing to do - the 2 glorified sex dolls nonwithstanding. It provides us with our base needs of food, water and shelter and nothing else. An afterlife which constantly pumps pleasure into your brain forever sounds more appealing than that
While not more an a minor part of the story, the harem anime ‘Heaven’s Lost Property’ has a society which is so advanced that they have everything leading to them to them all having terminal depression and they find a escape by using a avatar system to puppeteer a human copy of themselves while also blocking the majority of all their knowledge, memories and abilities while using it to live mundane lives among unevolved humans where they can experience the joy of the unknown.or at least that what I got from its lore.
'What matters is that the game is worth playing.' And there we have it: acceptance in the end. That's your utpois for you. I love this! This story went completely different than I thought it would and I'm all in for it.
In a game I do not dare mention for the sake of spoiling it, (as for doing so will ruin its core game mechanic of progressing with knowledge.) a race of aliens unable to go back home to their planet, and deeply afraid of change and death. Create a virtual simulation of what their homeworld was like. They were successful, and their entire race, managed to become immortal, and designed to last till the end of time. They were inside the same world for the last thousand Millennia, unable to change. And no escape as their true bodies are fossils. And all of this was just a fraction of this game. If you know it. You know.
It's interesting that boredom is seen as so inevitable, that people can't imagine a world without it. Why can't you be content with peace for eternity? Is not boredom then similar to other negative traits such as greed, narcissism, etc? Those who see peace as boring are sick, they are one of the many reasons why we cannot have peace.
I once world built a truly perfect world to make a screenplay for. But I couldn’t find a way for any story to start in such place, so to let it grow, I tainted it.
Apart from the magical memory that kingkapybara9964 has already mentioned, another thing that always breaks me from immortality stories is that people always get bored. I don't buy that, it sounds like those writers forgot what it was like when they were children. Children (the ones I'm thinking of anyway) don't yet have a concept of mortality, and yet the last thing they do is get bored. They explore where they are at, they try new things, they find friends to play pretend, there is always something that a kid wants to do. Climbing to the tallest tree branch isn't cool for a kid because it is "death defying", its cool because it is difficult. sticking a fork (or scissors in my case) into a wall socket isn't fun because you may get hurt, all they need is to wonder "what would happen if". Same goes for immortal and unhurting humans. I'm a programmer who enjoys game design and music composition. With each of those alone I already have neverending fun, there's always something I could try in the computer, some new setup or a project that I want to re-implement myself just because I wanna get how it works. Throw in game design and there are 5 games that I now have in my backlog, and as soon as I start to expand on one idea, it often branches into 2 or more confliciting ways to make the game, both of which could be fun, but I have to choose one for the sake of consistency. If I'm immortal, I can just put the other on my backlog and get to it when I get to it. Music is a similar thing, with the added bonus that I'd also like to experiment with music and sound effects being generated from scratch by a program, not done in advance. So even if you assumed the magic memory that doesn't let me forget anything ever again, I will still have hobbies to fill out the rest of my days alone, and company would only make it better as me and friends ping-pong art ideas and challenge each other's works. Imagine then if, after a thousand years since i last worked on the game "rocket jump", I decided to work on one of the variants and I had to relearn all the decisions I made, and play around with the same concepts, but with a clearer vision from the start and a companion project from the get-go. So allow me skepticism and to say no, humanity would not get bored. We would just go back to the wonder of experimentation and non malicious challenges of children, with added maturity
This! The one that is bugging me the most is how space got glossed over just like that. You can't tell me there isn't some crazy nerd willing to leave the planet to go to another one and spend 2000 years building some kind of Dyson Sphere, and there isn't a mad scientist willing to be stuck in space for who knows how long to travel to another system. Human history is a tale of expansion. Of course without the population increasing, the workforce can stretch quite thin, but nothing a little bit of automation can't fix. Next is the resources. Yeah your life is infinite, but the Earth resources is not, and there is definitely some greedy bastard still trying to hoard all they can to feed their ego. More for them, less for you. And you can't convince me that 99% of the population is willing to live a vagabond life for the rest of their life. There are so many more ideas that can be explored, like some idiots started a nuclear war to experience Fallout irl, sure the world will heal in like a hundred years, but there will be a taboo developed. Climate change too, is a huge event that the human can just let it play out and see where it'll go. And finally, the AI technology. Imagine, an immortal race, created another sentient race, let them grow, and then, suddenly-
@@Bork-but-weird-lettersthe thing is, they already passed the experimental stage of imortality, also, the nano machines can make anything, so there is no point in hoarding things if they are not special in anyway, limited per say, thats why they play games where there are limited resources like balls You need to understand that having infinite genie wishes leaves you desatisfied after the billionth wish
@@victorpedrosoceolin3919 And you have to understand that this simply isn't the case. There is no fundamental difference between playing a video game and engaging in carpentry. In both cases you are trying to achieve a given goal while following a set of rules. Some people prefer the former type of game, some people will prefer the latter. By virtue of people having no uniformity of preferences, a free society will always be a diverse society, with tenthousand more opportunities than you have time for, no matter how long you live. An hour of physical training, an hour of cooking, an hour of reading, an hour of playing a game, an hour of interaction with your friends, already half the day is gone. Then you can spend the rest of the day on your prefered skill, be it carpentry, or singing or historical reenactment or designing and building a car, or getting together with a bunch of like minded people to desing and build a spaceship. The entire narrative relies on this one aspect to be true above all else, and yet the idea of people getting bored of life is the most unrealistic part of this type of story...
@@Alexander_Kale i imagine that after 1000 years anyone can reach perfection on something, you can spend more one 1000 years doing that perfectly, but my mind says that you would get tired of that, like eating the same food for dinner for 3 years or more We are simply not build for such long time, because it's not something manageble, its hundreds of thousands of years
@@victorpedrosoceolin3919 Yeah, but you are again overlooking the obvious: there is more than 1 job in the world. If you get bored with being an engineer, you can change jobs. if it takes you just ten years to get bored of any given job, a hundred different jobs would still mean you need 1000 years to get through them all. I am sure this has been said before, but I would rather HAVE those thousand or more years and risk getting bored eventually, than not getting the chance to try. You can always opt out, whenever you wish. It's the lack of an option to keep playing that is the problem. And bytheby, we are not build for living in houses either. We are build for running over grassy steppes in a sunny savanna and dying young when a lion eats us. "We are not build for this" is an observation, not an argument. We make do.
I love this assumption. Our caveman ancestors had one worry in life, food! I bet they imagined "when we don't have to worry about food anymore then all our problems will be solved." But here we are. Food is no longer a worry, in fact some of us have too much of it, yet we are just as stressed and busy as we ever were because we had to create economies, money and jobs to provide the population with things like food. Solving problems inherently creates more problems. We will always have things to worry about.
I've rewatched some of the same series like a dozen times. Combined with any media generated in the future and the poor capacity of our memories, as well as unique twists like introducing new people to content, I think I'll be entertained forever if we reach a point I can sustain it.
There's another problem about immortality that fascinates me. You know how time feels like it speeds up as you get older? Would that eventually plateau or would it just keep speeding up? Like, one moment you're celebrating your 10,000th birthday, the next, the universe has ended.
I like to think that in a utopia, we wouldn't be too bored thanks to the tried and true human practices of storytelling and artistic expression. Also, like in the story, we'd focus more on the small pleasures of life, as well as on spending more quality time with our friends and family. That's my perfect future... Then again, I'm very optimistic, so maybe we're doomed, lol. Still, there's always hope.❤ Edit: Also, surely hobbies and other cool stuff would still be around, so there's that!
I fucking love you guys. Easily one of my favorite channels. I had just said to myself “damn, I’m bored”, so I open RU-vid and the very first video I see is this. Fantastic.
Player Piano by KVG sort of gets into this sentiment (both dealing with the boredom, and the repair that comes after the destruction, and it all seems to happen of its own accord)
I remember finding this, and not realizing I was sitting down for a novel, lost interest after some point, but it was fascinating, and something that never left my mind as something I'd go back to at some point
Hey Tale Foundry! I just stumbled onto your channel yesterday, and I really like the videos you make! New subscriber right here!! The videos are so well written and thought out! I am excited to watch all the others while I wait for a new one to come out!! I'll even check out Nebula!
The boredom doesn’t have to be boredom, remember. We’re still Humans, we still have our mind and our imagination, why not use it? Why not continue and create things, if we had no problems we can! An aquarium of just frogs, a chocolate castle! It wouldn’t be boredom it would be amazing. A world of everything and anything.
