Tyrion Lannister was a fan favorite but not in the kingdoms of Westeros. He endured many things all on the account of his dwarfism, but what if Tyrion The Imp hadn't been born a dwarf? #asoiaf #whatif #gameofthrones #hbomax
My question is would Jaime even be named to the kingsgaurd? Aerys appointment of Jaime to kingsgaurd was to spurn Tywin by leaving him with a dwarf for an heir. But in this timeline Tyrion is a more physically exceptional than ever and is probably still smart. So Aerys literally would gain nothing of significance by naming Jaime to his kingsgaurd.
@@ThisIsNotJayden wich is true, but the significance of Jaime is that he’s Tywins heir. In this timeline it’s nullified by the fact that Tyrion is arguably better qualified then Jaime to be heir.
It's possible Aerys didnt just deliberately spurn Tywin. He resented the fact that people viewed Tywin as the true ruler of Westeros, so he might have very well counted on Tywin resigning as Hand - a much better situation than outright firing him. And with Jamie sworn to him, Aerys both "robs" Tywin of his heir and gains a valuable hostage. Win-win-win situation. He might have been mad, but Aerys did have some cunning to him. Or maybe it was Varys' idea.
Jaime would still try to become a kings guard he wanted to get in because he could be near Cersei who would have been in KL married to rhaegar it was Cersei that wanted him to become part of the kings guard in the first place. Aerys wouldn’t humiliate tywin with it because he got Tyrion as his heir
@@greenknightofwar7024I doubt that, with all his cleverness Tyrion lacked social skills which Jaime had, he was in fact the only of Tywin's children who knew how to approach people and had sincere long-term friendships (e.g. Addam Marbrand)
You say Tywin wouldn't blame Tyrion for his wife's death, but the question is, would his wife even have died? A big factor in her dying in childbirth WAS Tyrion 's dwarfism, as dwarves tend to have larger heads, which is what put extra strain on Joanna and led to her death. If Tyrion wasn't born a dwarf, Joanna might still be alive. Hell, she may have even had more children after Tyrion
GRRM does just kill off women in childbirth a lot in ASOIAF. I mean, many of the main characters have that backstory. Jon (secretly), Dany, Tyrion, etc.
@@realdaggerman105well childbirth was (and to some extent still is) a very dangerous activity. look at the hygienic standarts in westeros and it will be understandable how and why so many women died in childbirth
@@realdaggerman105 While true the author is using it as a repeated story catalyst (hatred, secret prince, no motherly protectors - last of the Targaryen’s in some cases). For the 3 mentioned Tyrion, Dany, and Jon’s births were all unideal situations, and apart from Tyrions mother who would’ve had resources and people surrounding her, Dany and Jon’s moms were either fleeing attacks or giving birth in secret. Jon’s mom gave birth to him with so little people around only Ned knew the truth. Dany was born during a storm after dragonstone was attacked I believe. And of course while Tyrions parents were rich, he was a Dwarf and that causes complications as mentioned. Birth is dangerous and lots can go wrong. The main cast is large and we do see lots of examples of important noble women not dying during childbirth like Cersei, Catlyn, Lady Aryn, Roose Boltons new wife. It’s also a matter of circumstance
@@realdaggerman105 Dany was born with her mother under major stress and heart break in very problematic conditions(A massive fleet destroying storm at dragonstone, already an uncomfortable place after fleeing from KL), Jons mother (if we're going R+L=J) was just after her finding out her husband is dead and shes responible for her father and brothers death. We don't even know if a Maester even was there for Dany's birth and we know no Maester was there for Lyanna so she didn't have the higher access to medical care, alongside Lyanna being only 16 which adds further complications. These aren't the most stress free births TBH.
Babies with Dwarfism usually have abnormally large heads. Which would cause for a difficult birth. If Tyrion didn't have dwarfism Joanna would have most likely survived
If Tyrion were 3ft taller, I think Tywin would eventually get over it. He viewed Tyrion as a cruel joke of fate. His beautiful, beloved wife was taken from him and in return he recieved a malformed demon. There were lords who lost their wifes in childbirth and most of them didn’t blame the child for it.
@@Ballin4Vengeance There's also speculation by some fans (to be clear, it's not definitive either way) that Tyrion is actually the product of a coerced night between Aerys and Joanna. We do know for a fact that Aerys had a thing for Joanna and would flirt with her and it's implied even try to go further. Tywin also absolutely hates Tyrion to a wild degree and blames him for Joanna's death. This makes sense on its own what with Tywin being a relatively bad person who only cares about his family legacy (which could be tarnished by a dwarf quite badly, in his eyes at least), but it would also make sense if Tyrion is actually Aerys's. Tywin is far too proud to have admitted Aerys had his way with Joanna and he didn't immediately seek retribution, so he likely would've kept it a secret to protect his house's name, all he truly cares about. Again, no real proof either way, I personally think it's better for Tyrion's arc if he really is Tywin's, but there are some hints in the books that suggest the possibility (chief among them how enamored Aerys was with Joanna).
If Tyrion wasn't born a dwarf, would Tywin even leave his position as the hand of the king? Since now Tywin still has a decent heir, despite losing Tyrion. How would that affect Robert's rebellion? And so much more.
@@greenknightofwar7024 Good point, but he probably still would. If only to slight him slightly, by removing his "better" son in the eyes of the 7 kingdoms and first heir (just a small slight and petty, which he is). But mostly I suppose it will still function in using Jaime as a hostage, although a lot less of an effective one, since now Tyrion functions as a spare in Tywin's eyes.
What if Tywin’s wife didn’t die in the birthing of Tyrion? This could be a massive change to the story since she was apparently the only one who made Tywin truly happy
Realistically, Tyrion would have been his favorite. A point of contention throughout the series, especially in the books. Everyone points out how he’s the one most like him. Even Tywin knows this but blatantly refuses the admit it. He even stopped talking to his favorite sister for some time when she directly points this out.
If lucerys and Aemon both died, then people would probably be left speculating what happened to them and likely wouldn't lead to an escalation because nobody knew what happened they just disappeared.
Except we know about the dragon fight in the first place only because people at Storm’s End heard and saw it happening and Vhagar’s remains are too huge to be absolutely lost so close to shore
Would Vhagar die? If she lives then the Hightowers could argue that Luce attacked Aemond and killed him so Vhagar retaliated by killing the other 2. The opposite and cannon version could be argued by The blacks and the war can start far hotter than before. I can see a battle happening at kingslanding if either side is angered enough and led by a volatile advisor (Daemon and Cole/Aegon). Daeron or Rhela could even try to claim Vhagar.
make a what if Aegon V didn't die in The Tragedy of summerhall, and had managed to hatch dragon eggs, let's say 3 dragon eggs to make it interesting, how would that change history from that point o,n with no one dying in summerhall and dragons returning to the world?
Honestly, and this is just my headcanon, i think Egg actually did manage to hatch at least 1 dragon. But, caught up in the moment, didn’t escape the burning Summerhall, which collapsed and killed both the Hatchling and the Egg (heh).
@@realdaggerman105 That’s essentially my theory on Summerhall, that the ritual totally “worked” in hatching the dragons, but the Wildfire being used burned the newborn hatchlings to death along with everyone else. The survivors were too horrified to speak on the matter, and Maesters didn’t want it recorded that stone dragon eggs could be hatched, hence the secrecy.
Then daemons youngest daughter gets vhagar and the blacks have vhagar, vermithor and silverwing if she’s on the side of the blacks that is sow they have the 3 largest tamed dragons at the time which means the blacks have a sure victory
Suggestion for a future video: What if Tywin discovered Arya's identity? Especially interesting, if he decided to keep her as a ward similiar to Theon after making peace with the Starks.
There's an AO3 fanfiction I'm reading that goes full throttle with this scenario called "The Wolf Cub in the Lion's Den." It's been an interesting read.
What if Bran's plotline went somewhere? OR. What if Bran had actual character develop and not becoming an ai? I remembered the season where he wasn't even in it
Depends. Even if Tyrion wouldn't be a "half-man", Tywin's main issue with Tyrion is not his physical deformaties, but the fact that Joanna died giving birth to him. It's unlikely their relationship would improve or change much if he had been normal. But this would however have lot of consequences of what kind of man Tyrion would become. Probably less cerebral for one. Lot of Tyrion's aspirations of honing his intellectual faculties were born from the simple fact that all other avenues of him proving his worth were pretty much closed to him, so now that he no longer has to "prove" himself, he'd probably be even more inclined to use his money in brothels, drink and whatever pleasurably distractions he thought of. He'd still be smart, but as he now is "normal" he has much less motivation to improve himsel. Maybe antagonistic relationship with his father still could be effective motivator, but I think it wouldn't be as effective as him trying to show the entire world he casts a long shadow.
I think the inverse, I think he blamed Tyrion for Joanna's death BECAUSE he was a dwarf; Tywin has a lot of narcissistic qualities, he feels that Tyrion's dwarfism is a curse to spite him, and so thinks that the death of Joanna is a part of that curse. If Tyrion is not a dwarf, he perhaps has a lot less cause to think something like that.... although, the mind of a narcissist is an illogical thing. That said, if Tyrion isn't a dwarf, it's far less likely that Joanna dies in childbirth. It's obviously not his fault, but dwarfism usually leads to increased head size, which.. well, could complicate an already complicated birth to the point of being fatal.
What if King Viserys and Aemma Arryn's Children whom died at birth. Had survived!? What if King Viserys and Aemma Arryn's didn't die at a cradle or miscarriages? Then those children have grown up to adulthood? But would it cause problems? Because King Jaehaerys himself had kids. But some are even rebellious and even Jaehaerys was a terrible father. What if Viserys felt the same with his children if they didn't die? Unlike Jaehaerys Viserys is a good father but with different circumstances. I think Viserys would've favored his sons, more than his daughter's. And the only problem is Viserys loves them too much. They can literally do whatever they want. Which would've led through disasters. Look at Rhaenyra she has the strong boys and Viserys doesn't give a shit. Imagine with his other kids😅 I hope I could give you this idea for your video!
@@durrangodsgrief6503 Yes, but still with different circumstances. Jaehaerys is a terrible father, because he needed to stabilize the realm for what it has to be done, which is his duty. Like sending his children to have political marriages which never work. And King Viserys is a terrible father, because he loves his child too much, which he can let Rhaenyra do what she wants. Which would've been a problem if he's kids are alive. So both of them are terrible and good father's Because Jaehaerys chose Duty. And Viserys Choose Love.
Got two HOTD what if suggestions here: What if Viserys accepted the marriage proposal between Jacaerys and Helaena regardless of Alicent's protests? What if Rhaena claimed Vhagar after Laena's death?
I think he still would have been a pretty smart dude. Sure what he uses his brain for may change but overall nothing really says he wouldn't enjoy reading or learning still. If his uncle Gerion still plays with him as a kid and gets him into reading that is. Chances are Tyrion would never be as good as Jaime with a sword and for quite some time Tyrion would still have gotten the 2nd son treatment. He would still want to find his own way to impress his dad and I think being the strategic/smart one would be his route to do that, along with probably being a more than adequate fighter.
Can you do "What if Cersei was born a man?"/ "What is Jaime was born a woman?" "What if Lyanna Stark Survived?" "What if the Targaryen dragons never died out during the Dance?"
The first two would be irrelevant, as the reason why Cersei and Jaime are soo diferent is because of the way they were treated due to their genders. So, if Cersei was born a man she would be Jaime (and vice versa) or Joffrey, although this later turned out to be this way because he was born as a prince and had a horrible overbearing mother and a drunk irresponsable father who couldn't give to shits about him!!!!
@@anaemiliaalmeida7238 Eh, its more of a story change tbh I mean, if Tywin only had sons, then he has no one to offer to Robert after the rebellion so theres no Lannister on the throne. However, he does have an heir in Ceasar (male Cersei), who I imagine is kinda like Joffrey but hides his entitled assholeness more cuz Tywin is def stricter on him, especially since Jaime left for the kingsguard and leaving Tyrion as the only other option. Also Ceasar might be married to Lysa so theres that. Yes, the marriage sucks and so is their parenting. Pray for the Robin/Joffrey stand in. If Tywin had twin girls and a dwarf son, then he really has no choice but to name Tyrion heir, which would make him resent him more. Also, unless Jeyne (female Jaime) volunteered to be one of Rhaella's ladies in waiting, Aerys has no one to use as a hostage against Tywin. I think Aerys either got away with destroying king's landing or someone else becomes the kingslayer. I also imagine that Jeyne became Cersei's lady in waiting unless Tywin married her off to someone else. Also, Cersei's children arent a result of incest (unless she decides to screw Lancel), theyre either someone else' or Robert's.
Also, side not...if you think about it.. it was really dumb of Hoster Tully to feel insulted by that marriage alliance with Tyrion instead lol. Like...who cares if hes a dwarf by that point? Hes STILL heir to Casterly Rock by that point. Lysa Arryn would STILL be Lady of Casterly Rock. She would STILL be the richest lady in Westeros. Like...what...why? Or why not? Lol.
I don’t think it’s a certainty that Cersei hates baby Tyrion. She loves her kids, maybe him not being deformed is enough for her to develop motherly instincts for him. Maggie the frog MIGHT change that, but maybe Cersei isn’t blind to the ambiguity of that statement if she loves both her brothers… one as a mother figure and the other as a lover.
You're joking, right??? Cersei loves no one but herself and she already hated Tyrion because his birth caused the death of their mother. I don't know when exactly Maggy's prophecy came to light, but I think it was after children Oberyn and Elia had stayed at Casterly Rock where they wanted to see baby Tyrion for the rumors of him being "demonic" looking and they got disappointed to see only an ugly yet normal baby with a head twice bigger than his body. When the brothers complained, Cersei told he was the monster who killed her mother and then proceed to pintch the baby soo hard he cried out of pain and finally said it doesn't matter for he won't live long enough after Jaime stopped her. It is hinted that this event was way before Cersei came to Maggy, because Oberyn's mother intended to persuade to Tywin into marring Cersei and Jaime with Oberyn and Elia respectively only for the later to spurn at the suggestion claiming his daugther would marry Prince Rhaegar.
I think that Tyrion wouldn’t be so skilled in politics as he is in cannon, but just as smart. I think he would be groomed to be the heir of castelry rock because Tywin would actually give him importance after Jamie joins the king’s guard. Tyrion wouldn’t be so humble, neither as kind to people in low places (like Bran in cannon, even tho in this timeline Bran wouldn’t be thrown out of the window by Jamie). He would be learning the ropes of how to rule, but this time not as an underdog, but as a pampered heir. He would develop to be a decent lord or even a good lord, but I think he would have a little more character flaws and a little bit of shortsighted views of people and the world around him.
Yeah, I don’t think cersei cared if Tyrion was a draft or not, I always assumed she hated him because of her mother dying and no matter what he looked like, she would hold that death against him
In House of the dragon the Lannister that is on the small console is a second son of his twin brother I bring that up because Tyrion could be smart as he is in Canon since second sons have to make a name for themselves he still has that on his back
I don't understand why you consider he would be dumber. Tyrion always was smart and would always be. Tywin was a tall able bodied heir and that didn't stop him from sharpening his mind and cultivating his intelligence. Tyrion does lack the discipline of his fathert though. I don't know if it's linked with a rebellion against his family's disdain or a general lazyness. I still think a big part of his intellectual curiosity is innate and that he would explore the areas of studies that incite his interest. Plus Tywin not blinded by Tyrion's dwarfism may even try to push his son towards studies to make him an efficient second to his dislexic borther, like Kevan is for Tywin. Tyrion may not have the drive to read as many books as in OTL but, all Lannisters are ambitious and I imagine he would still strive for excellence in being a great lord like his father.
I would have/would love(d) it if The Valonqar was Arya wearing Tommen's face, making Cersei feel guilty about his (and his siblings') deaths before goading Cersei into killing herself. Another version I would have liked to see is Jamie finding out that she lied about her pregnancy, was sacrificing the army and smallfolk, and basically make all the worst decisions she could. He choaks her with his real hand and beats her with his gold hand in a rage. When he sees her corpse, in guilt and shame, he takes his dagger and slits his own throat.
"What if Rhaena claimed Vhagar instead of Aemond?" Maybe a good one worth exploring! Rhaena claims Vhagar right after her mother Laena's death, Aemond has to claim another dragon like maybe Vermithor or Silverwing...the Dance could have looked a whole lot different with the blacks not only having more dragons but Vhagar on their side.
What if Lucerys lost his eye *instead* of Aemond? What if both Lucerys & Aemond died in episode 10? What if Aemma Arryn last child, Baelon was born a girl that married Aegon-II? What if Viserys had Aegon II married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death? What if Rhaenyra was like Jaehaerys The Conciliator? What if Rhaenyra Targaryen married Borros Baratheon? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenyra Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenys Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Daemon Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Rhaenyra married Otto after Alicent married Viserys? What if Aegon-III lived longer and made his Daughter Daena hair after the death of his sons? What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
Yeah the most likely outcome would be the Marriage of Tyrion and Lysa and the Lannisters entering the Rebellion sooner than they did. If Jaime was named to the Kingsguard, which Aerys could still do since he would basically be keeping Tywin’s favorite child hostage even without the Dwarf Heir element, Tyrion would be the Heir and the next generation of Lannister Lords would be Cousins with both the Royal Family and North’s Paramount Lords making Robert’s eventual Reign much simpler. I think people forget how influential Lysa was in helping Petyr Bankrupt the Kingdom and there’s no way the same thing happens with Tyrion as Lysa’s Husband. For one thing Tyrion wouldn’t be Hand thus he would have more time to properly diagnose that Baelish is a slimy piece of shit and he wouldn’t want him around his Family effectively neutering Baelish’s plan to eventually get to KL. Another thing would be that Lysa was basically begging for someone to choose her over her Sister in a Romantic sense and if Tyrion puts even a modicum of attention into Lysa then Baelish wouldn’t have nearly the same effect on her he does in Canon. It would lead to better outcomes all around at least for awhile…
Nah, the main thing was Tyrion being a dwarf. The moms death was just an excuse. Cercei would hate him because of how valuable he would be in their father's eyes
@@Myrcella_Rykker I guess the biggest question would be, would Tyrion still be awesome if he wasn't born a dwarf? He talks at length about how his sword arm was never going to measure up, so he read constantly and learned as much as he could. He had experience with being judged and ridiculed, so he naturally formed a good sense of humor and a soft spot for those less fortunate than him. Jaime had to lose his hand to grow and mature... If Tyrion had been born hale and hearty and tall, maybe he would have been just as insufferable as Jaime originally was.
I would say Tyrion is a central character in the series and I don't think that changing such a central character so fundamentally would create many plot holes than that can be described.
Tywin's relationship with Tyrion is a threefold problem: 1) Tyrion's physical deformity 2) Tyrion's childbirth leading to his mother's death 3) Tyrion's proclivity to sleep around with prostitutes in public and not be discrete about it The first issue wouldn't exist, so Tyrion would likely be named Tywin's heir should Jaime still take the cloak, but points 2 and 3 would still lead to a massive strained relationship with his father. If Tyrion is still the least favorite child, which he likely would be, I don't see point 3 being done away with, in fact since he doesn't have a physical deformity he'd likely be even more emboldened to sleep around than he already was in canon.
Um I always had the thought that if Tyrion was born tall Tywin would like him a little but Cersei would still hate him but the biggest change is his relationship with Jamie imagine Tyrion being tall and living in Jamie shadow because is the golden boy in daddy eyes, so maybe we would get a scar and mufasa relationship in house Lannister. Also when part two with Maegor the bronze dragon.
I read it as *what if Tyrion balls tore*. And I was so baffled I had to click Safe to say I am disappointed in both myself and that the video is not that
Jon Snow is never born, the war of 5 kings still happens, the Boltons take winter fell, the night king is slain in single combat by Ramsey, Ramsey becomes azor ahai
Without watching the video, id have to say that if Tyrion had been born "tall" he would have still killed his mother in childbirth and most likley his father would have legit killed him on sight as a monster because normal children arent "born tall!" There is the full explanation, so there is no need to watch this video.
