Someone had asked what is a Crown Corvair. Here is a video of my 1966 Corvair Crown conversion and what I know. This is a short version and more information can be found on the web. Not all Crowns are alike. freepages.roots...
Very nice museum piece and I mean that as a compliment. I built my 1st CorV8 in the mid-‘70’s, have been building them since and knew Ted Trevor personally. Crown Mfg. did much more than engine and automotive suspension conversions, aero-space contracts were a mainstay. But that is another story for another day. The Cor-V8 was born not of conversations with GM engineers but of Ted’s realization that the Corvair Saginaw and full-size Saginaw shared internal components... Bruce Myers and Ted Trevor had teamed up to make a run at Pikes Peak in 1966 winning in their class beating Carol Shelby in his Cobra. Shelby the sore loser went on a vendetta against Corvairs in general, Cor-V8s in particular, which lasted ‘till the day he died. Carol Shelby’s contributions to the automotive industry are well documented and legendary although he stepped on a lot of toes to get his way. I’ll get back to that... The Crown engine in the Myers Manx had ‘blow-up’ in testing just before Pikes Peak. The only running Corvair engine immediately available was the 140 in the brand new ‘66 Corsa Ted had just bought for his wife. She BTW was not at all happy Ted yanked the engine out of her new car. After Pikes Peak Ted looking at his wife’s engineless ‘66 Corsa realized that with a simple adapter a V8 engine could drive the Corvair trans-axle from the front and born was the Crown CorV8. In a effort to control costs GM used as many off-the-shelf components as possible in designing the Corvair. In fact, the Corvair shares components with Camaro, Corvette and Chevelle. One of the biggest misconception with Cor-V8’s is that the trans-axle has to be flipped or run backwards. Only Kelmark ran the transaxle backwards on the coast side of the gears. Why? God only knows. A Corvair engine turns the same direction as any other GM engine of the time. Instead the power is taken off of the front of the Corvair engine as opposed to the rear as most other conventional engines. When standing at the back of a Corvair looking at the engine you’re looking at the back not the front of the Corvair engine... The prototype Cor-V8 was unique unto itself. Ted hired now renowned suspension guru Trevor Howard to design a ‘conversion kit’ which included upgraded suspension components. As told to me by Trevor, Ted gave the prototype CorV8 to him to drive which he did virtually daily for two months. Trevor’s designs were exemplary for the time. Trevor Howard’s Corvair suspension upgrades work better than any other. Original Crown CorV8 conversion springs and sway-bars are worth their weight in gold if you can find and identify them... The conversations with GM engineers happened when Ted ordered 15,000 full-size Saginaw output shafts from GM. That is not a typo, I’ll spell it out: Fifteen-Thousand. A full-size Saginaw output shaft drops into a Corvair Sag case requiring little modification to adapt. GM thought they had a serious problem and sent a team of engineers to visit Crown Mfg. As Ted told the story a small army of GM personnel showed up unannounced one morning to determine what the issue was. Why on Earth would anyone order 15,000 output shafts? There had to be a real problem. When Ted took the GM engineers into the shop and showed them what he was up to they all had a good laugh then went on their way. With 15,000 output shafts to make as many converted trans-axles why wasn’t the CorV8 more popular? Carol Shelby. CorV8’s and Cobra’s ran in the same class. Nearly every time a CorV8 and Cobra went head to head the Cobra lost. When the Crown V8 conversion kit came out in 1967 Road and Track magazine refered to CorV8’s as ‘Street legal Group 7 race cars...’ In the ‘68-‘69 CanAm series a CorV8 was running 7th in the national standings before a crash took the car out of the running for the season. David Macintosh starting in 17th position in his very first sanctioned SCCA race finished 1st over all beating the McLaren which was on the pole. Shelby was livid and contacted all the car magazines at the time and threatened that if they did not cease touting the CorV8 not only would he pull his support but he would get Ford to withdraw all their support and advertising. The threat worked and there was no more discussion of CorV8’s in the car magazine hemisphere... A couple of years before Shelby’s death a automotive author friend who shall remain anonymous found Shelby at a local car show and spoke with him for several hours. Though a Corvair enthusiast my author friend knew better than to mention Corvairs to Shelby. Over and over throughout the conversation unsolicited Shelby ranted what a crappy car was the Corvair. Being beaten at Pikes Peak and on the road-course by Corvair power and CorV8’s left a sour taste with Shelby he took to his grave. Your CorV8 is a race bred Cobra killer and America’s 1st modern super-car. Enjoy!!!
Hi Archibald! Thanks for adding the great history of the Crown Mfg. and Ted Trevor. Only if people knew the whole truth and facts about the Corvair itself. My dad and I have had Corvairs though out our lives. I always admire V8 Corvairs like yours so my dad and I started building one from scratch. We got as far as rebuilding and installing the engine and complete suspension on all four corners but then this car came up for sale. I had to get it as it was all done and was a well sorted out driver, am sure you know what I mean. I totally enjoy the car and talking to people who never have seen one and don't know the history, that is why I've started posting videos of my car.
In reference to the Kelmark running the transmission backwards - it reduced the length of the entire engine/transmission unit thus reducing the overall wheel base. Kelmark's conversion ended up something like 6 inches shorter than the Crown system. As is pointed out when discussing leg room, this was a big deal. But Kelmark's conversion really reduced the life expectancy of the trans running on the wrong side of the teeth the way it did. You mention how fragile the differential is. Have you done the two to four spider gear conversion that strengthens the rear end?
Back in the late 60's my brother's friend had a brand new '68 427 Vette. He loaned it to my brother and he took me for a ride in it that I will never forget. He pulled out of our street and punched it, it fishtailed wildly from right to left all throughout 1st and 2nd gear, scratched 3rd before he let off. At 10 years of age I was thrilled and scared to death all at the same time. I couldn't believe how fast that thing was! About a week later, the owner raced a neighbor that had a '65 Crown Corvair. My brother and I followed them to the designated street strip. To our astonishment the Corvair finished the race while the Vette was still smoking the tires at the starting line 😳 I still remember everyone being totally bummed out that a Corvair spanked a BB Chevy so bad 😠
One of our professors at U of MN, Professor Thomas Edward Murphy, told us about a project he did back in the '60s. He installed a V-8 and even made his own adapters with what he had on hand. He used a Pontiac 350 and hooked it up to a Pontiac Tempest transaxle. We never saw it as we were in grad school around 1985 and the car had long since been sold. He was a real fun hands-on guy and his war stories were great. Sadly he passed in '94.
There was a time when we all did swaps with what we had or could get cheaply. I had a 62 jeep cj5 that I put a Pontiac 400 in back in 68 then had a ford F250 highboy that i put a 292 chevy in it and had a 69 pontiac lemans I put a 5.7 goodwrench diesel in because I knew rhe problems with those engines and knew how to fix them and make power from them and they were dirt cheap or free back in the early 80s had many cars Ford,Chryslers with the 5.7 diesels back in the 80s. Engine swapping been around since the first auto was built. It truly is a shame where we went in the auto world today.9
In 1976 I bought a Corvair that had been converted with the crown kit. No engine and it was in a pretty sad state. I put a 327 in it and made a fiberglass cover for the rear as it had the seats but no cover. I quickly learned the good and bad. Lost a few ring gears before we built a 1/2" 6061 cover with countersunk allen's to keep the case from spreading. The car ran on rally wheels widened to 10". I lowered it too much and issues with squat on shifts. velvet touch brakes. It was fast and fun. Yours is very nice, enjoy it.
This is an interesting video about a Chevrolet Corvair that modified into a mid engine design car in 1966. It would not be till 54 years later in 2020 that Chevrolet would produce the mid engine C8 Corvette. This old car must have some of the handling characteristics of the C8 Corvette. I have read the Zora Arkus-Duntov wanted to make a mid engine Corvette in the 1960s, however General Motors management turned down the design.
Back in 1969, I/We put s Buick aluminum 215 V8 into a 1964 Corvair. We had to convert the engine to run backwards. We got an adapter from Crown Conversions for the Buick aluminum 215 V8 engine. Headers from Tubular Automotive and Corvair Spider mufflers. The engine was 35 pounds lighter than the stock Corvair engine. 15-inch wheels/tires and wire wheel covers. The car looked totally stock but quite fast. Radiator in the trunk with hidden air vent tubes and two electric fans.
I built one back in the 70s but we put a Eldorado motor Trans and rear end front wheel drive order the back of the 67 we had and plenty of leg room and it was a big block it came out great handled good it was covered pretty quiet for the motor we had I sold it to someone in conn but I drove it for 5yrs no problems
I have a 65 Corv-8 as well have had it since early 1980 last I heard Clark’s Corvair had some of Corv-8 parts on East coast after Crown Manufacturing ended on West coast.
If I remember correctly, one of the big automotive rags, back in the 60s had an article about using a gm front wheel drive,ie Olds Torando ,Eldorado, Riviera, bigblock drive train Transaxle, in a 64 Monza body, I think the manufacturer was Kelmark? They also made a kit car called the Kelmark GT
Very nice conversion sir. What makes me smile is this is not a museum piece or a trailer Queen. You use the car for what it is not just some sporty ego Builder. I have not looked, do you have videos of yourself carving some twisty roads in it? Either way, thank you for sharing that is a very nice looking car! I am 6 ft 7 in and I don't think I could get in the car to drive! Oh well, that makes me sad! A few years ago I saw one converted using a 3800 Buick V6 out of a supercharged Buick Park Avenue engine, transmission the whole unit and that was really slick if I can find a decent car that is the way I would have to go simply because it's easier to install and to be honest with you I'm past burnouts oh, well not completely past them! Either wa,y thanks for sharing! Best Regards regards, Bob from Virginia USA
Thank-you for showing your "Corv-8". Decades ago I read an article about mounting a Toronado drivetrain "behind" the rear seat (a notch for pully clearance), several years ago, I thought about mounting the Fierro drivetrain "behind" the rear seat, then a few years ago someone had done that, but they removed the rear seat. My concept would replace the duel headlights with singles to enable the radiator to be longer and moved forward with 4" dia. hoses leading from the enclosed shroud to fender mounted vents (low pressure zone).
Yeah, back in the very early 70’s, I was totally pumped about building one of these, I had the Crown literature and pretty much had it committed to memory. The plan was spoiled by a problem I’d had to deal with before, no suitable cars to start with. Unfortunately, I don’t live in Southern California, and after 5 years of daily use, the cars weren’t a good starting point. The other thing, after carefully looking at the photos, it looked doubtful I’d ever get my 6’6” carcass comfortably into the drivers seat.
Nah you would not have fit! The elegant way to make a mid engine Corvair involved building a reverse rotation V8 and turning the transaxle around so the transmission was behind the axle. This put the engine closer to the rear axle and allowed the transaxle to rotate in the direction it was designed to. The big flaw was the fragile Corvair differential. Case hardening the gears helped, but not enough.
@@melodigrand those extra inches would have made a big difference. I recall Crown advertised a four pinion differential, can’t remember if it was a limited slip, it was 50 years ago.
I remember my dad recorded a home video of my uncles black on black crown conversion corvair with a Kinsler injection intake manifold. It was very cool to see the stacks under glass. I really like the wheel and tire package on your car
I built a Corvair with a Crown kit - we didn't call them crown corvairs - in the early 80s. I bought all the parts from a catalog by mailing them a personal check before waiting 4-6 weeks for delivery (I'm really f'ing old). As I remember, the kit came with a special camshaft and starter to reverse the engine's rotation, an engine/transaxle adapter plate and optional heavy duty Dana gears which I didn't order until I trashed the 1st transaxle after about a month. I first attempted to mount the radiator under the deck lid after punching several louvers (Buick Riviera style) in it. Ultimately, I moved it up front after modifying a Vega front air dam for an air intake. The 6ft radiator pipes, fashioned from universal "flex" exhaust pipes, did a lot to cool the engine so I was able to use a very low profile junkyard radiator from a triumph TR7. I was able to duct the air out through the fenderwells with plastic ducts intended for landscaping. I added camaro front disc brakes, master cylinder and (I think) front sway bar. I got a quicker steering box from someplace, possibly a Pontiac WS6. I tried to hide the engine by cutting up typeriter boxes sourced from my Dad's office and making it appear like I had boxes of paper stacked on the back seat... unsuccessfully. It was possibly the coolest and most fun car I ever built! A few years ago I set out to build another with a 4.3l V6. I actually bought the car and a NOS Crown kit on ebay but couldn't bring myself to destroy a vintage car. I did a restoration(ish) Corvair instead with only bolt on go fast parts under the skin. So if anyone is looking for a Crown kit new in the box....
Super Cool 😎 I want to drive it!! When I was a young teenager, my Hot Rod uncle had one he was going to build, using an aluminum Buick V-8 Unfortunately like so many of his other projects, it never went far. He actually gave me the Crown brochures, but over the year’s I lost it 😢 Being a sports car kinda guy, always wanted one of these. Thanks for sharing 😎
2 suggestions, to help the engine run cooler, install a 4 row aluminum radiator. To protect the radiator have mesh grille made to fit the opening so that any rocks that get kicked up at highway seeds from cars/trucks ahead of you. Nice car enjoy it ! 👍
It was years ago I seen a car magazine article showing the secret sauce to building a 300+ hp NA engine. It was something like VW jugs, Corvair ported heads, Chevy II connecting rods and pistons with 6 single barrel Weber downdraft carbs and custom runners and tubular exhaust headers. I used to own 66 Monza and dreamed of a Corvair with some real hp to backup the rest the car’s performance.
I've heard you can soup up the pancake engines in those especially the ones with turbo and get some really good results without converting it whereby maintaining your rear seat, also there are some mods. You can do to the suspension and reduce the roll over threat of the rear engine.🤠👍I love these cars!
Standard Corvairs dont roll over very easily. Several hundred thousand miles as a teen in them. The Corvair is actually the only American car deemed safe by Congress.
that was done with 70's tech imagine doing it now with an all aluminum small block or even one of the all aluminum v6's that are available now I would think an alum v6 with modern heads fuel injection and a modern induction system would out power the old 283/327/350 stock motor and save weight + space and keep it a budget build I have seen the Porsche trans-axle used also from the 928
I have always thought about using the front clip from a modern GM FWD car but replace the steering rack with a bar to mount the tie rods rigid. It would be similar to what they did in the Fiero. A Series 3 3800 Supercharged or a 3500 V6 with a turbo would make that Corvair move like crazy.
If you ever rode in one of those conversions in the early 70s. You would regret not fastening the seat belt. Properly done they cornered way better than a Corvette.
The first thing about a V-8 into a Corvair is the bell housing bolts right up no adapter required, second is that Corvair engines spin clockwise at the flywheel (backwards) so a V-8 mounted mid engine everything turns the correct direction,
With the crown set up yes, kelmark set up the transaxle is flipped causing it to run backwards which causes other issues. You do need a special input shaft to connect the V8 to the Corvair transaxle.
A driver called Frank Gardner used to race one ( V8 Corsair) in Australia in the early 70’s. It was in the Sports “Sedan” class - basically a heavily modified stock vehicle. Was quite successful due to both the power to weight and handling. Fun time - the Corsair, V8 TL VW fastback, V8 Alfa Romeo, Australian Charger with a F5000 motor…. Like I said heavily modified from stock. If you could jam a big motor in a small body all the power to you ( pardon the pun).
I had something similar inspired by the crown. Kit mine used a Lakewood blowproof bellhousing a fisheye van engine cover custom welded tube headers going to transverse Camaro muffler under the package shelf going into Corvair turbo mufflers. Cooling was a triple core 14x26" radiator canted 45 degrees rearward with 2 .VW Rabbit fans pulling air through towards the ground. I had salvaged an aftermarket AC setup compressor tucked in low right side of the engine and Alternator on the left evaporator stacked on top of the radiator in the rear trunk. I used a salvaged Holley 650 vac 2ndary spreadbore pattern and a low-rise 2 plane Al manifold to fit under the engine cover. Brakes were a set 11x3" Al drums from a '60 Buick Electra because Wheelwood.didnot exist and there wasn't any safe? Way to mount calipers to the front axles. Oh yeah 4 pinion gear setup from Clark's. Mine was a '65 but had the '66 Saginaw based transaxle
I did a V8 conversion on my 62 Corvair Monza (back in 1965) Being a young kid, blew the transaxils showing off. Are their beefier axils you can get for conversions now? Is the engine air-cooled and if so does it work? Thank you. Nice looking car, you did a super job.
It has Spyder gears, which are harden gears to take more torque but not bullet proof. The big conversion that builders are going is adding a corvette transaxle.
How do you get the power from the V-8 to the transaxle? I always assumed when you did the mid engine conversion you would flip the transaxle so the input shaft would be pointing forward. Thanks
Mid engine is pretty tempting but if it were me, I would soup up the pancake engine and retain its purity. Did corsairs have the large bore engine are did that come in the Vans/trucks?🤔
FWIR all 1965 and later Corvair engines had the same bore and stroke. The horsepower started at 110 for the basic engine, up to 140 for the 4 carburetor models and 180 hp for the turbo. But the same engine.
OK, now I can't remember where I read it, but I did read it in some publication. The story was the other way around. That it was GM/Chevy who sub-contracted Crown mfg. to make the major components. The subframe mainly. Why? Supposedly because the Corvette was to have been a mid engine vehicle in the 60's. Chevrolet put together the mid engine Corvair, with the 360 h.p. 327 f.i , 4piston caliper brakes. The problem was that this "new Vette" was way faster and handled way better than the Corvette. That Mr. Z.A.D. himself gave it the thumbs down. By that time the Corvette was well underway to car immortalism. An there was no way they were going to "sneak" the Corvair (unsafe at any speed) into a Corvette. Under the public nose. For it's trouble GM gave Crown mfg. the right to produce the aftermarket kit. w/o hassle. That is my understanding of the story.
Looks excellent, dodgy chrome filler trim ? Get in the bonnet (hood) & underneath with a bit of satin black spray(rattle)cans,wotz that nasty cable repair underneath & that bit of old angle you found buried in the garden that you've managed to bodge on the diff housing !!? Last owners probably not proud of you me old sausage x
The transaxle is running in its regular direction in a Crown conversion, the V8 has a special input shaft that connects into the back of the transaxle.
Curious if anybody has tried mid-mounting a Corvair engine and how the diff would handle that flip? I'm working on a '65 convertible and would love to go w/ a mid-mounted engine and think the low profile of the Corvair power pak would work well and maybe even leave some "package" area behind the seats.
The Kelmark conversion flips the diff but the issue is that it is now running backwards. Running the diff backwards causes oil circulation issues also you will have problems with the shift linkage.
@@CorV-8 Thanks for the reply. Sounds like I'd need a reverse rotation R&P - that would be a unicorn item, if ever there were. I'd be runninng an auto transmission, so shifting wouldn't be an issue. Don't Crown conversions also flip the diff? They don't seem to have issues w/ the diff, other than torque capability. Perhaps something to think about. Thanks again for the reply.
Here's what I would do: Fit the front wheel drive engine/transaxle assembly from the front wheel drive vehicle of your choice and fit it way behind the seat for your Corvair rear engine supercar. GM 60 degree 3.1 is designed specifically for cramped space usage because of its shorter transverse cross section. The big bonus for a truly talented design engineer would be to incorporate variable output 4 wheel steer into your rear wheel drive train.
I got mine from Covair1, website is up but unable to order parts. I was told they have moved and may start selling again. You can also order a disc brake kit from Clarks Corvair Parts. This set up is a common S-10 conversion.
@@elixruiz8440 Front rotors from a 4X4 S-10 and brackets from several vendors online for mounting your caliper(s). I got mine through Scare Bird, look them up online. Easy peasy.
