For sure I’d watch more of this. It went far more into depth about what the deck does, doesn’t do, and should be doing than probably 80-90% of the other deck analyses I’ve seen on the platform.
I value your deck building philosophy more than any other EDH centric channels, and upgraded precons are my preferred power level for playing, so I'd absolutely love to see more of these in the future
i love this, same thoughts. upgrading is a very reasonable power level and still feels like the essence of the preconstructed deck. I am upgrading ellivere rn and its been fun, been throwing in a lot of Banding stuff (because it adds wacky interactions and makes comically difficult bands to deal with in the mid game) cooperation is a banger card, and is a crazy aura for as cheap as it is. just having the ability to band one of your virtuous creatures banded with your commander makes for extremely fun interactions. especially when you toss like gaea's embrace or equestrian skill on ellivere. its just a super fun commander and precon in general! it really functions just fine without upgrades, but just a few changes to fit what lets you have more fun and cool integrations in the play group is in my opinion the most fun way to adjust to power for Magic. Sure winning is always the goal, but a crazy high power deck just encourages an arms race. I'd rather leave it open for newer players or people to make decks with lesser resources that can still compete. anyways, i agree lol i'd eat this content up
I enjoy this kind of content! More crunchy and analytical than other precon reviews I've seen. Nice to know what things I should be thinking of when cooking up a deck myself!
My dad got the warhammer 40k chaos deck and it was so poorly optimized that he could barely play, so as a gift to him i significantly upgraded it. The deck was like 90% 5+ cost cards that barely impacted the game and there was almost no ramp to actually play those cards, I know that precons are never optimized but I truly don’t know what they were thinking
precons are weird, and snail said it best in this video, that newer players usually suffer more from poorly curved high costed decks as they are afraid to mulligan down to 6 or 5 to have early game plays. you'd think wizards would try to give players a nice curve to learn the game but i guess not!
Sometimes precons are balanced to have game against others in the same release, sometimes they put in cards as obvious upgrade fodder, and sometimes they just fail to understand how the game works. And sometimes they have a reprint on color but off theme. I feel like Universes Beyond has the "reprint" problem, but multiplied by the card doesn't exist yet, and people want to make a cool card for a cool character. So the decks can end up insanely technical and powerful (Dr.Who) or clunky battlecruiser magic at best (40k).
That one is weird especially since they other 3 don't have nearly the same issues. Can you imagine playing that versus monoblack Necron Dynasties? Brutal.
I can't speak for the Chaos deck specifically, but I did get one of the 40k and two of the Dr. Who decks. These feel a bit more like they wanted to make the cool, flavorful cards first, and built a deck around them second. I really enjoy the cards, they're fun... but as a precon, they're kinda questionable. Often splitting them up into two very different plans goes best. The Tyranid deck split up became one hilariously aggro deck (Deathleaper) and one janky fun burn deck (Ghyrson Starn) for example. Even Davros was half Missy, half Davros, so I stuck with one game plan.
I was suggested this video not having seen any of your previous content. I found it to be very thoughtful and covering mostly what I like to see about these upgrade videos. I'd definitely come back for more! The one thing I'd say is missing is some level of detail on the cards you're putting in and taking out. Some was clear because of things you said earlier,but it would be very helpful to have that on screen and spoken to close out the video. That way the video can be considered standalone without having to look up information. It would also help when just listening to the video, for example while driving. Great work, keep it up!
Noted! I wanted to keep this video relatively slim length-wise, but I can definitely spend a bit more time going into specific cuts/adds in future videos.
@@salubrioussnailif you do more upgrade videos like this, be prepared for it to take over your channel, especially if you improve the formula from "slim sample to see if the algorithm likes it." But yeah, in a specific upgrade guide like this, naming more of the cuts is helpful. It detracts a bit from the "this is the approach I'd take" message by being more specific, but this kind of video calls for it.
@@salubrioussnail thanks for the reply! I do agree having this concise was a great benefit. There's short and long upgrade videos around,but something about this length is ideal in my opinion
I'm normally not one to comment on RU-vid videos but I feel like I should here. Your videos are some of the best on EDH period. The philosophy you follow when deck building I feel like perfectly encapsulates the spirit of EDH. Keep it up please! I second I see one of your videos it's an immediate watch for me!
This type of video is so great. You analyze what the deck is trying to do and what the deck actually does so much more thoroughly than a lot of the other channels i watch for this type of info. I hope you do this more often, and I would watch it even if it were longer ❤
I love this sort of applied statistics and science using the precon decks. It's like going back to Uni for a seminar led by a new and super capable PhD candidate who makes all their own slides after taking a course in communication: clear, concise, and visually appealing presentations of high concept data for a wide audience.
This was fun to watch. Personally I'd also be kinda interested in you showing off a full deck with this commander you built in comparison to the precon
I'm a rather experienced card game player who recently picked up commander with friends. I tend to have problems explaining why things seem bad to my friends new to card games. This video is stellar, a great guide on how I can do better, and i'll be sending my friends your videos hoping to explain some of the complicated aspects of having a reliable deck
I would absolutely watch more of this, I'd also be interested in seeing explanations for the specific cards you decide to add in addition to the explanation of the direction you want to take the deck.
Would love to see more of this to understand how to think this way myself. I still struggle to analyze and breakdown decks on my own. It makes sense when watching you do it, but me with my own deck I draw blanks. Love watching the thought process for decks I can also go out and pick up off the shelf!
Wow! You managed to fit into 9 minutes what a lot of others didn’t in 30 minutes plus 😂 this was a very thoughtful breakdown and rebuild. I’d like to see more for sure!
This earned a subscription from me. You're the only RU-vidr who has really done a deep dive into this deck. The only suggestion I have it that I also thought Reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel were out of place, then my few games with my playgroup immediately made me eat my words. This deck draws cards. And I was surprised. YMMV
Hey I am mostly new to commander, I really liked this video! Great work. Some feedback: I wish you went into more detail on some of the most critical cards (not all of them) you swapped and why you chose those specific replacements and not some other card that might fit in the same place. These kinds of details may seem obvious for someone who knows the game, but I think someone like me who has less than a year experience in commander might benefit from a more in-depth discussion on why you picked certain cards to put into the deck. It would help other people understand your mindset and thought process in order for people like me to make their own swaps!
I'll comment for one specific one he cut that I see a lot of discussion on, and that's frequently put in precon decks: Temple of the False God. It's a notorious card for looking like free ramp ("wow, a land that taps for 2 with no life cost?") but it's a risky card with drawbacks that need to be mitigated and a pretty limited upside. The fact that it's a land that doesn't tap for mana at all unless you have 4+ other lands means you can get screwed bad by having 3 lands, drawing your Temple of the False God, and getting stuck at 3 mana when any other land in your deck would have let you cast 4-mana spells. The ways to offset it are either running a LOT of lands, or at least having some kind of loot/rummage effects that let you trade the card away at times it's bad. The upside of running it is that if it's your 5th land, it takes you to having 6 total mana a bit earlier. Six mana is much less often a breakpoint when compared to four. Also, it only makes colorless mana - looking at the latter part of the video, you can see that this precon struggles with having too many colorless-producing lands. In the case of this deck with a 4-cost commander and not a ton of other early plays, Temple should just be removed & replaced with a basic land. The basic will tap for a relevant color, always makes mana, and isn't a dead card in your opening hand. Snail also touches on a couple other "popular" colorless lands: Reliquary Tower solves a problem that's not usually a problem for decks. Same as Thought Vessel - there's better 2-mana mana rocks that will either produce colored mana or have some better upside other than just "no max hand size". It's easy to dilute your mana base hard like this deck did; assuming the "utility" of these colorless lands is better than having reliable access to your colors, but realistically "can I cast my spells" is far, FAR more relevant for your lands than "could I pay 4 & sac this to become the monarch, once?"
As someone who is new to your channel, and who bought the blame game precon on a whim, I find this video extremely helpful, and would definitely watch more like it. If I could suggest retroactively looking at pre cons (Growing Threat (please its so bad and I tried so hard to make it good but ultimately failed)) would be very cool.
I just found your channel today, and I’ve already watched all your videos. I really love the analysis of deck make up, and I think this type of video is great!
Hey, just wanted u to know that I started brew decks again fairly recently, and when I was looking for new inspiration I found your videos. No joke, I think my deck building has gotten leagues better after watching your videos. Thank you
This is a great deck and an even better upgrade video. I can't believe the Surveil deck lost in the Patreon poll tho. It's unbelievably stacked to the max. Would watch a dedicated video for all of them from you.
Im 3 videos in and I can tell youve become my fav mtg youtuber and youve brought back my interest in the game even tho i barely play now. Awesome content.
I love upgrading precons, so this series is awesome for me! The reason i clicked on this video, a friend of mine got this deck and runs into some issues. Thank you for your incredbile analysis!
I'd love to see more of this! These were some great, detailed examples of deckbuilding mistakes (and their solutions) that I don't know if I could learn anywhere else
Seeing you examine this deck has made me want to see what you'd think of viewer submitted decks. Maybe offer something to patrons? I personally would be willing to shell over a little dosh to get an in depth analysis of my fave deck.
It'll probably have to be a significant chunk of change, like how MTGO channels have "donation decklists" or a similar high tier of backing. Since it'll take you a while to analyze the deck, optionally make a video on the topic, and probably have some back & forth on what they want out of the deck.
Love this content. I’ve checked out your other videos and love your insights. Precons are something I really enjoy too, so I’d love to continue to hear your thoughts on them and how you would focus them more effectively
I really appreciate the way that you've laid out the deck objectives and that you're willing to change a few more cards than the average upgrade guide. You stick to a reasonable budget despite this AND because you aren't limited to a low number of swaps you still fix up the land base. If you did more of this I would definitely appreciate it and I'm subscribing, hoping that you do!
Great video. I often build hot jank-pile decks that are a lot of fun to play but struggle to close out games so really appreciate your attention to detail with deck construction. Would love to see more like this.
I really like this format of video. You provided a high quality analysis of the deck and the little animations make it all the more entertaining to watch. I would definitely watch more content like this
Love to see stuff like this, especially since this was also the precon i chose out of the four. Would be interested to see more videos going through options and reasoning for all the parts of the deckbuilding process from 'scratch' as well
I like that you explain the reason for cutting and adding cards, I would even appreciate more analysis on specific cuts/adds that you may think are controversial. thanks for the vids!
As someone who only recently started making his own decks and who plays with friends only using parecons this video was great for a number of reasons and I would love to see more like this. First I never understood why drawing so little Mana was a reoccurring problem with my friends parecons but this made it much more clear. Any chance you could look at the Tyrranids parecon next? My roommate loves that deck but never has enough mana to do anything.
This was really helpful seeing the thought process to make a deck more consistent and true to the strategy of the core deck. Do more videos like this! Knollspine dragon is a fun pick at the end 😎
Really great analysis! I was considering getting the deck to use for parts in my goading “Mazzy Truesword Paladin” deck but something felt off but I couldn’t clearly explain why. Lots of high cost cards without a plan to handle non-combat based decks are definitely weaknesses to the deck!
I love that you teach me how to be better at the game. So many channels just advertise cards to buy. Idc what kind of videos you make tbh because i learn something new every time. Just keep cranking em out!
I like this video a lot because this really exemplifies the principles you are teaching. I play in a no-combo 50€ budget meta and try to make my decks really fun to play, cohesive and strong in this meta and due to the budget restriction i often need to make compromises in individual card quality. So I try to alleviate this by having the overall all deck as well rounded as i can. For which your videos help a lot. Thank you!!
I quite enjoyed this video! As someone fairly new to MtG/Commander, I really like your analysis in other videos, but this felt easier for my mind to glom onto and apply the stuff you've said more specifically than your broader examples in other videos.
I found this video clear, concise, and helpful for thinking about how to improve EDH decks in general. I would definitely watch more like it, especially if you specifically chose precons with different types of issues (Though a lot of them will probably have "manabase not very good" mentioned)
Hello hi! I'm a on again off again casual player who never really learned how to build decks properly so end up playing mostly precons with friends. Loved this video, hope to see more
Hey Snail, love your videos. The one about "unknown" threads vs. transparent threads was a game changer for my deck building. In general, I think you give solid deck building advice, including in this video. I wouldn't mind you examining future (or past) pre-cons that you find interesting, as the way you describe your assessment is more in-depth and therefore more interesting to me, than for example Mitch from commander's quarter does. (not hatin', lovable guy)
love how you managed this one! if i had my hands on this one i would definitely think of adding in some monarch and initiative cards if i wanted to make this deck run smoothly at high power. Both effects are seriously strong and can win games outright if left unchecked, and many times opponents wont even be able to do anything about it!
I’m a new player and all I can say is thank you, I bought this pre con thinking it would be a simple way of entering the format and it was a hard time learning. This has helped a ton though thank you
I love the deck tech and can’t wait to implement some of your design philosophy in my own deck building. Also loving this video analysis specifically for boros which I find harder to build.
I've been watching you since your big first edh video like blew up, and I have to say this in all summary: Keep Talking. Yep that's it. Keep going, because I like what I am hearing, and I want to hear more analysis, helping put to words concepts i'm grasping and I can use you when I am talking to my Judge-of-a-Friend.
This was really cool! I would love to see more of this. I think it's very useful to see why a thing happens. As you pointed out, turtling is cool, but it won't win the game. Too much emphasis on protection and your deck won't win. Kinda like having too much interaction will also make your deck not able to win.
Nice video, to the point and well explained. Would like to see a revenand recon upgrade video, from what I've seen, I think it lack a good way to finish games.
Ok, as an avid precon lover, I'll need all of the other precon analysed and upgraded by you. I love your unique way of analysing deck building and I'm always up for more insight
Great Video, love the extra steps, explaining why things are bad. Lots of precon updates are superficial, or suggesting some synergy cards. Like you could have easily pointed out to run cards from main set to support the theme, but you went differently.
I just picked this up from a local shop because I wanted to support them after they unionized, and after a few test runs I was gobsmacked by the awful mana base. Glad to see it wasn't just me!
Wonderful job. I don’t even play rare formats yet I learn a lot from your videos and enjoy them thoroughly! You should consider looking into and discussing Pauper Commander, the best Magic format!* *in my opinion
This type of video is great for seeing how your philosophy maps to examples in a whole instead of being a little abstract in prior videos. I prefer the prior videos more but this is interesting, unique and useful
Appreciate this kind of precon analysis, I’ve been getting a new friend into Magic and he likes commander precons, so I’ve been back to looking more seriously at buying some to play and upgrade alongside him.
Would love to see more of this, and my suggestion would be to do this to the Gavi precon, since you've talked about her quite a bit before and I would be very interested to see what you would do to make the deck play smooth, yet not bland or inconsistent, which were your criticisms before.
Really like this type of video and I hope to see more. Your opinions are very interesting and your videos aren't crazy long. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Surveil deck from Markov Manor next if you want to do another from the same group.
This video really help me build a deck i was making, it was an innitiative deck and just dump a lot of defensive things so no one attack me to keep the innitiative and the deck was the worst thing i ever made, even if your game plan depends on defending yourself you are almost always better of removing the creatures that threaten you
I love this analysis, and you've made me actually want to purchase a precon which is a strange feeling. I've only ever had bad play experiences with them before!
I think this kind of video is super useful as someone still practicing my own deck-building. My suggestion if you want to stick with this format is doing a price point comparison on where your revised decklist sits, as well as what it would cost to make the revisions. I think this would help, considering what the target market for precon decks are.
I'm bad at card games so a video like this with detailed explanation of what a deck does right and what it does wrong in achieving its particular win goal is mega useful for any future deckbuilding I may do.
Upgrading precons is how I got into deck building. It’s such a dusting task especially if you start with commander like I did. But I bought in with a warhammer chaos deck and now Bel’akor is one of my favorites to pilot because I made that decent if not weird deck a playable demon assault deck. So seeing this kinda stuff in this depth is awesome. I’d watch an entire channel of just this (though I like the other videos too so)
This content is awesome, I'd watch more of it no doubt. I wanted to get a hold of the deck and play it in some precon pods, but had a weird plan for it's future, part of me would like to use the pieces in this deck as a basis for a Queen Marchesa deck with the exact same plan of controlling enemy attacks, but with all the cool stuff that black can add to the table (from the Breena and Karazikar precons too). I was wondering if you think this could be a good plan, or if it's just too convoluted.
From the 6 games I've played, I'd disagree the deck doesn't draw a lot of cards. Nelly herself has busted card draw if she sticks around, most games I'd have over, or near max hand size. Other than that, your points are spot on and the additions and subtractions suggested make perfect sense. :)
Great video as always! The one thing that left me a bit perplexed is the reasoning behind cutting temple of the false god. I used to think it was very bad too for the same reason you mention, but I've fuond that as long as the colors are covered in your mana base and you want to play 2-4 drops even later into the game, it becomes decent ramp. I probably still wouldn't play it here because of the need for higher color count in the mana and how the deck plays, but I wouldn't discard it so quickly because of the land count. Personally I play it in my combo Inalla deck, since I will hold up a lot of mana for interaction and this helps cast big spells, like bolas citadel and expensive board wipes, without worrying too much about that. As long as I have the means to have or draw into other lands for earlier turns I don't mind it being a delayed ancient tomb.
It’s a decent card *if* you can consistently draw into land drops 1-4 while holding it in hand. I could crunch the math on it but for the modest colorless ramp benefit it gives, I’d want a 90-95% chance of having it come online, which won’t happen without a land count in at least the mid 40s.
Prior to this decks release. I already had a Boros Goad deck filled cards from Adventures in Forgotten Realms and Baldur's Gate. The addition of the new goad and the old goad, has been a ton of fun.
loved this. very good stuff for someone learning MTG for the first time. Additionally, do you have your red-green commander deck's decklist posted anywhere? red and green are my two favorite colors, but Im still learning the game and would love a chance to digest a competent deck to puzzle out how such things work
Sure! The deck is a bit unusual for red green, but it is a pretty effective budget voltron (make one creature big then swing) deck: archidekt.com/decks/4615680/i_tap_my_equipments_because_its_funny
I've slotted Nelly into my existing Goad/Monarch/Initiative deck and so far it's been working pretty well. I also run a lot of anti-attack things to keep myself alive, especially after it's down to a 1v1, and so far it's been fairly consistent. Putting in my Smothering Tithe also definitely works well for it.
