What is NSBM and how has NSBM label changed through the years? [OPINION] 

I'm happy to say that among these many comments most are civil and not waging war, not going ad hominem and whatnot. Thank you for being people with brains. Those who can't make comments in a civil way can just piss off right away. Outright name-calling etc. will be deleted. Thanks for not being a dick. :)

I find it amusing when people are fans of black metal, a genre that 9 in 10 songs is about hating Christianity but then get all sensitive when those bands give the same treatment to other religious groups.

If I like the music, I don't care if it is NSBM or not.

while i disagree with nazism, i do relate with some of the nationalist and heritage related lyrics as well as some of the best riffs ive heard are from nsbm

This got me super pumped for the goatmoon interview.

that's a great video , one of the first time that this topic has been handeled pretty well with no bias

I’m not much of a lyrics-guy I’m just into BM with evil riffs and compositions, so a few nsbm bands may slip through sometimes. But when the ideology takes over the music I lose interest.

I'm really glad you covered the subject. I have very specific lines that I draw with NSBM, but it is a bit difficult and involved to explain very easily or in a few words. It isn't black and white. Very cool you pointed that out! I personally respect your opinion and position even though we may be slightly different. Ironically I think I heard Hoest of Taake say it best in an interview, that black metal is a genre in which the taboo is open for expression. So much could be avoided if people just did a little research too. Great video!

great topic, cant wait to watch this now

Black metal is about following your own path and carving your own fate, not believing some ideology like a weakling. Being weak is the opposite of BM. Be it religion or any kind of "ism" or judging someone by the color of their skin. Believe in yourself and develop yourself.

NSBM is just a sub genre to me their political agenda has no real if any bearing on me the listener and consumer. I’m a Burzum fan but I always found Varg comedic and baffoonish and I’m black. Life’s too short and too shitty to let political views interfere with your listening pleasure like that

I have always seen black metal being more or less as an reactive movement. It started when common culture was still way more christian than nowadays, and as times gradually started to change towards secular and the christian influence started to fade away (to some degree, definitely not that much really), so did black metal reactively grab onto symbols and themes that are considered 'evil' and a taboo in the secular moral code's context. So basically nothing new under the sun, just the same old battle between the so called good guys vs the so called bad guys.

"Black Metal is about hatred and intolerance. No fucking compromises!"

Great video, it’s good to hear a nuanced opinion without just virtue signaling or hating people you disagree with.

Great video brother! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it!

Curious thing is that most of the bands labeled as NS, don't have nothing to do with nazism or political propaganda at all. The vast majority of these "tags" are consequence of personal opinions / behavior of the people behind the music living their private life. If we start to research the lives and ideologies of each member of each band we listen to, and keep only with the ones who we agree 100%, there'll be nothing left to listen to.

again, nice work, Rauta! Very well thought out. I am glad to see somebody taking a look at this issue without getting all worked up.

I'm starting to lose my hair....guess I'm a Nazi in progress.

I love this channel man,so insightful.

Great video, very interesting and informative.

This is my first time seeing your channel. Great content. It is nice to hear about BM without hearing, "but you shouldn't listen to this band."

the best 17 minutes and 46 seconds of my life. this was beyond helpful for someone like me who is trying to understand it

I really enjoy your content. Great video!

Great perspective loved the show. Very articulate

For me, it's about the music first and foremost as well. I enjoy the music of Burzum, Nokturnal Mortum, Grand Belial's Key, regardless of whatever political beliefs these musicians have. I really don't care if it's offensive to others because black metal, at its core, is and should remain an offensive art form. However, I also understand why a venue might refrain from hosting a band if they're alleged Nazis - even if these allegations are completely false (as in the cases of Mgla or Marduk). In a way, this preserves the extremity and controversy of the music. I think a lot of bands labeled as "NSBM" are using those symbols more to promote fear, shock, derision and hate as a way of indirectly preserving black metal the way they want it to be. What better way to keep mainstream audiences away than to slap a swastika or the word "aryan" on the back cover of your album?

The first black metal bands I ever listened to were NSBM when I was a teenager in the late 90s. I was into Oi/RAC before that. Being a 'minority' it seemed edgy at the time...

Interesting video, Love the honesty here

Great Rauta! Very wide and open minded!

NSBM isn't going anywhere. If anything, the rise of far left viewpoints(muslim migration and little border concerns) combines both religious and nationalist concerns, so it'll likely only continue to get more common. As someone who listens to music for music and not ideology, what concerns me is the justified violence from thoughts/opinions regardless of action. The argument that NSBM causes racism or is the reason for perpetuated racism in capitalist countries is...for lack of a better pun, absurd. And I do not think any trajectory we're on currently is one that will result in less extreme viewpoints. Anecdotal, but I was called a racist yesterday on FB for criticizing sharia law. Not muslims, but specifically sharia law, under the argument that it is a "sacred and misunderstood justice system with falsehoods put forth by racists". If that's the current attitude from the left, then NS will become significantly larger.

That's a nice video, I like it, there is a very important point to be made here with what you said. While I totally understand the appeal of having NS related content in your lyrics when it comes to BM, given it was such a dark time in history filled with death, war and despair, there needs to be a clear cut to enjoying such things as a theme in music and actually celebrating and believing in it. In reality there is just no way BM and the NS ideology would ever fit together. You would instantly have secret police showing up to those concerts, I'm pretty sure Hitler was not to fond of satan, freedom, worshipping the occult or paganism. Don't even mention long black hair and pale skin or tattoos, these are not particularly arian looking if you ask me.

I like the drums in most death black nsbm rock punk country . Really. I couldn't care less about lyrics or imagery.

If people are actually living their lives according to the bands or music they listen to, then that shows one more thing wrong with society. Most times, I don't even really listen to the lyrics of black metal music. I like the mood it creates, I like the instrumentation, I like the vocals. I don't use it as a reference for how to live my life.

This is the most ive heard a Finnish man speak haha

Very well put, I've been accused of being "nazi" because I have a few nordic rune tattoos and listen to black metal from people in the past and I wish they would watch this to educate them.

A bit late in the game, as in watching this, as I also see that you have a part 2, as well. but, was intrigued to watch this, when I came across it, looking for a specific band video, your's popped up. I personally hope that Nsbm stays, as honestly I find some of it, some of the most beautiful, and VERY passionate music, as well as sometimes the vocals, that I have ever heard. the first Ns band that I ever had the pleasure of hearing, was Aufgegeben (German Industrial BM), although then I was totally oblivious to what Nsbm was, as I had never heard that term. In all honesty, I didn't really grasp the whole concept of it until (as you know from our previous conversation) well, you know what happened with me, and M-A. but, I hate it when just because (some) of that subject matter is being sung about, that (to alot of people, it seems) grants that band to automatically be slapped with the label of "Nsbm". I mean, clearly some bands are, and will not shy away from that fact. but, when a band says they aren't, I'd like to think that the band knows alot more about their music, than anyone else, I obviously am going to believe that band; no matter what anyone else says about it. and, to be labeled as a "Nazi apologist" just cause I defended my reviews that I had written for Totale Vernichtung, just because they wanted me to lie in them, and I absolutely refused to comply (just stating this, for commenting). I absolutely adore a few Ns bands, Aufschwung, Pesttanz, Vril, Einsatzgruppen, Su Asti, Fatherland, Nation War, Circle of Dawn, Adolfkvlt, Daimon, Ehrean Geist, Einsatz Kommando, LSSAH... with the forementioned Aufgegeben being my absolute, most favorite. there are a few other Nsbm bands that I listen to, but these listed here, are the ones I keep on coming back to, again and again, just because they're all so extremely beautiful, in both the music, AND the singing. while I may consider myself to lean some to the right, politics in general, really... I honestly, really don't care. there is no forgiveness in Black Metal, and Nsbm (I truly feel) should not be looked at any differently than any other style of Black Metal. it belongs, just like everything else in that genre. I don't necessarily listen to any kind of music, with the thought of whatever thoughts of lyrical content in mind... I have to love the music, I especially have to love the singing, lyrics have nothing to do with whether or not I will love a band, or hate it. but, I will say, that as I also mentioned previously in my comment, that some of the most beautiful and passionate comes from Ns bands. I mean, the passion is so strong and unforgiving with emotions in like all the bands that I have just mentioned. I have been asked how can I think music like this is beautiful... when it's Nsbm. I mean, I am literally moved to tears at some of this, especially Aufschwung. my best friend in Nevada told me about this band, and from the very first song heard, I was in tears cause his voice was so intensely beautiful, I was like to myself, "OMG, I love him!!"

Good impartial video. I separate the art from the artist. In any case, there are no doubt members of bands who hold NS or whatever views who do not disclose them or write lyrics about.

I view NSBM as a very self-contained thing. It is a rather small scene with no relevance to the general (black-)metal scene. While crossover points exist, there is no real danger of widespread contagion to the metal scene. I also separate the person(s) behind the music with the actual artistic expression. Varg Vikernes is the prominent example. But even mainstream figures like Michael Jackson come to mind. If the artist doesn't use his music for specific on the nose political messaging, I don't care. To stay with Varg/Burzum: I don't think about the person Varg Vikernes when listening to the Filosofem album. I just listen to the Filosofem album and I have my own, personal reaction to it.

Well said!

Great video Rauta

Thanks for explaining.

Very good video! It is true that people that are not on the right nor the left side often are labeled even because of some shirt of some band. For example also Marduk with all their war imaginary are seen as right wing BM. Being that said, and being said that I don't follow any political side, I think we should agree that BM has never been a left wing movement as can other genres be, as raggae and all that stuff... People that know BM know what I am talking about and love the genre as it is, and I am not talking about NSBM.

To start great video and keep it up. I am like you I like good metal I don't care about the lyrics if the music is kickass. There are a lot of really talented musicians on both sides that make music I like. Basically what I'm saying is Good metal is good metal if you don't like it don't listen to it. Hails from the USA

It’s the kind of music we need.

What NSBM is? NSBM is one of the greatest subgenres of black metal.

I like NSBM as in Graveland, Nokturnal Mortum, Hate Forest, Kataxu, Fanisk and those mighty finish bands. It has become a really "black metal thing" to not be part of the massive virtue signalling morons. Also Mexico and South America has a huge NSBM scene. Because NS is for any nation in his own.

Believe it or not one can listen to NSBM without following/believing in their ideals. Most fans can separate the art from the artist.

Also check out the book "Wolves Among Sheep" for an in depth look at the history of NSBM

Excellent video on sensitive topic... -faust88

I never met a Finn that wasn't introverted. Great people you all are. I'm Norwegian heritage/Irish.

Politics don’t belong in black metal, period. I like your take on this subject.

One thing to note about NSBM is that people (even this video, despite giving a rather well argument) give it more exposure by bringing it up. Plus at the end of the day, it will always depend on the person, _not_ everyone. One person can hate NSBM and want it out of black metal, others will be indifferent but find the music to be good.

Ahhh good ol NSBM. How can one not love a Nice, Sunny, Beautiful Morning!

NSBM is just black metal for me. As long the music is good, I’ll support the band. It’s all art to me 🔥 Till this day, “Finnish Steel Metal” is one of my favorite albums. Hopefully you can get an interview with Blackgoat.

Yea i agree, nowdays even if you mention anything patriotic, nationalist or even if you obviously just want to provoke with your songs, you will be labeled as NSBM. For example calling Burzum NSBM is totally nonsense. Burzum has nothing to do with NSBM, lyrically or musically. Varg has some views that are about european culture and heritage and paganism and pride about it, but it is not NS. Its actually very far from it. Peste Noire is also not NSBM band. Famine just like to provoke people. And so on, so many bands like Graveland, Nokturnal Mortum, etc... are all labeled wrongly as NSBM. Absurd is NSBM band. M8l8th is another one. Musically and lyrically. My personal opinion is that politics, no matter what side, has no place in black metal. Black metal is anti-political in its core. Also i am not judging anyone, i like all black metal if its quality one. Does that make me NS too? Of course not.

@Rauta -- Forgive what is sure to be a lengthy rant here, but concision is often the enemy of precision. Your open-mindedness concerning this subject, and your capacity for dispassionate, nuanced, critical analysis, is what I've come to expect from this channel (and from any mature person who studies the world in more than stark monochrome). As you correctly remarked: there are bands accused of N.S. affiliation, either due to perceived proximity or perhaps creative collaboration with others clumsily labeled as such (any degree will suffice for the witch hunters of "the current year"); and there are bands, by contrast, with open, avowed N.S. affiliation. (I will refrain from using the term "Nazi" here, by the way, unless it is in quotations, as this was an Allied pejorative -- a slur, essentially -- which was never common among actual National-Socialists, past or present, with any seriousness). Notice how the former actually take more flak than the latter. Is it, perhaps, because those advancing "cancellation culture" prefer soft targets who will, instead of fighting back, plead with their accusers, thereby bolstering their illusion of authority and the privilege to interrogate anyone on the basis of perceived ideological transgressions? This answers itself. Whatever we choose to call it, something NO thinking person should be able to ignore is the question of *why* this is even presented as such an urgent topic of discussion. It is as if it is becoming *more* urgent, despite a stagnant or decreasing number of bands with affiliation to N.S. worldview in any explicit sense. And I don't mean that it is strange that YOU would cover the topic, given it has become too commonplace to ignore (due to forces beyond your influence), but rather: *why* is it deemed so important today, and perhaps most tellingly, to *whom*? One almost gets the feeling a panic is being generated. I can't help envision that photo of failed comedian, Netanyahu, holding up the cartoon bomb before the UN assembly, as if a certain line will be crossed in this accusative group's estimation from which there is no return. They really want to ratchet up the sense of impending doom so that those previously indifferent will imagine something must be done to avert some vague yet constantly-hinted catastrophe. I don't know about you, but whenever I detect sudden fixations, trends, or mental/behavioral fads, be it in popular culture or even in the underground (however saturated and thoroughly infiltrated it has become), I step back and examine the situation much more carefully. In the specific case of all this feigned concern (this fake, cartoonish panic) over "Nazis" in Metal, again, I have to ask: Who is even expressing the concern? What are their fears? What is their proposed alternative or preferable outcome, instead? I think it is abundantly clear where this entire obsession is coming from, if we throw the gloves off and get real (and when should we not?). It is wholly inorganic. Hollow. Too abrupt and pronounced for authenticity or credibility. That is to say, it is pure establishment, and hardly burgeoning from any grassroots level as they would prefer us to think. It's coming from a vocal minority of Jewish journalists and their lamestream Leftist affiliates -- the Umanovs and the Goldbergs, etc. -- posturing as arbiters of taste in Metal [MetalSucks arrogantly branded itself "the most trusted source for metal opinion, analysis and up-to-date breaking news on artists ranging from the biggest in the world to the underground"], and from millennial Antifa Punks (that strange wedding of complete derelict dropouts and trust-fund snobs who wish to emulate the former) who rapidly wormed their way into the vital organs of Black Metal via Thrash and Crust -- ahem, Kim Kelly. Now it's MetalSucks and BangerTV and Vice and Noisey and Vox and Buzzfeed, etc., acting as unelected mouthpieces for OUR reality and OUR world, telling us what is and is not welcome, and what must and must not be done about it. You know why N.S.B.M. was even born? Again, let's be real. It's not as contradictory as the critics suggest, and it has nothing to do with party politics. It was both a progression of certain themes as well as a backlash against certain elements particular to this age. It is hardly surprising that the more inquisitive and iconoclastic personalities in Black Metal, as anti-establishment and counter-culture in spirit, would delve deeper than the surface of things and look at who, precisely, is in control of this modern culture/establishment. Who is on top? Who holds the power? Who cannot be criticized? Who holds a monopoly on the narrative (any conceivable narrative, practically)? This entire world age is a manifestation of "Allied victory". Whether our grandfathers would have desired this outcome or not (I can assure you, mine would not, despite serving in the U.S. Navy), this world, as it stands, is a product or result of the last great planetary conflict, and may be judged accordingly. If this is where sham Democracy (mob rule) under ethno-nepotistic Plutocrats led us, we don't want it. It's fashionable to complain about the "1%", but not if you get too specific -- then you are persona non grata. This entire situation prompts a re-examination of what came before, and ought make us wonder why they, the powers-that-be, were so threatened by any true alternative to their own proposed system (then and now). Furthermore, why would any serious critic of Christendom fail to consider its Abrahamic roots? And if one begins to really delve deeply into those branches, studying their own literature, how could they fail to oppose it more explicitly, rather than couching it in vague terminology? We are not choirboys, after all, so who are we sparing if we avoid injurious counterpoint? If Christianity is not for us, what is it that makes it so alien and incompatible? From which soil did it spring? The same soil as the other two weeds that plague us. Why is it deemed commonplace to be anti-Christian, yet controversial be anti-Abrahamic/anti-Judaic? Why is that a bridge too far? I had this argument with Dayal Patterson recently, which he could not but fail to censor from his feed, given it illumined his double standards with regards the subject of Fullmoon (a band he referenced as "thematically problematic -- again, to WHOM?!) The Satanic aspect in Black Metal is rooted in all adversarial archetypes and, as such, exalts contest, conflict, challenge. It is a metaphysics of strife. If we look at what is deemed most detestable from any standard, mainstream, establishment perspective, the polar opposite of that entrenched establishment emerges in crystal clarity. We see something, then, of a true alternative to everything in power today. We reject the egalitarian model. We reject this perverse obsession with humanity as something unique in any way. We reject Political Correctness, which is a frail euphemism for Cultural Marxism. For us, Black Metal is elite and hostile, by design. It isn't for everyone, and ought be viciously defended from the kinds of incursions which would render it a soft, lukewarm, all-inclusive, commodified safespace by parasites who never truly understood it or truly cared for it in the first place. Their fixation is an indication that they KNOW its power, and as such, seek to neutralize it, not maximize it. Lastly, I will say that, in my estimation, N.S.B.M. was never in truth any sort of significant departure from Black Metal, nor really even a pronounced sub-genre which in any substantive way strayed from the original formula. If anything, it's been an intensification of its roots via varied and divisive means. One of the reasons we hear less about it from *within* the underground (in spite of all the incessant whining from *without*) is NOT because it ceased to exist, but rather, because it developed to the point that hyphenations from B.M. were neither necessary nor useful. Our enemies will predictably assail ANYTHING that is authentic, nativistic, strength-oriented, and ungovernable on their terms. Despite their claims, it is not N.S.B.M. they have a problem with, but rather, TRUE B.M. as it stands. Abundant proof of this is what they find permissible versus who they target, blacklist, doxx, etc. I suspect on some level, you see this clearly, yourself, even if we may vary on some of the aforementioned particulars.

No direct offence, but we shouldn't apologise for anyone spreading racist messages because the music is fun - that needs calling out and condemning

I am not NS, just an ethnic nationalist. I have no problem with Jews as long as they live in Israel (Palestinians should have a state as well). I am a big fan of Roman Saenkos music and he is put in the NS category.

if the music is good i can careless what the ideology is. Anyway, Rauta you're the man.

It's a movement within the genre. Many Polish NSBM bands out there that jam. Oxymoron though.

AWESOME METAL DUDE

Burzums first couple albums were the bee's knees.

Mä ainakin kuuntelen joitakin NSBM levyjä siinä missä muutamaa white metal levyäkin. Itse musiikkihan se pääasia on.

The type of people you mention at 14:06 is incredibly accurate and that black and white mentality seems to be even more common than ever

In a time where hating on Christians has become the norm it's only natural for bands who still want to provoke to pick up NS aesthetics. People outraged about that never understood Black Metal in the first place.

This reminds me about an interview with Marduk, which I reed in the Metal Hammer magacine when their album “Panzer Division Marduk“ was released. Marduk clearly denied to be NSBM. Last year some shows in Germany were cancelled because some “heroes“ of the ANTIFA announced attacks on the clubs. They reasoned those attacks with connections between a member of Marduk and a member of a NSBM-band. Insane imo. I heared a lot of Marduks' music. Still I haven't found any lyrics that sound right winged for me. Actually I think, black metal is far too chaotic to be a serious part of the NS-movement. You can't march when a 240~250 bpm drumblast blows straight into your mind. You have to headbang! No matter how long your hair is ;)

Well stated, but let’s be honest. The real problem is those “journalist”. People still have misconceptions of DSO, MGLA, Taake. We have to debunk the false narrative and support our artist as well when they get attacked with click bait titles. I’m with you to the bitter end, Rauta. The worlds need to learn to agree to disagree.

I have just started listening to metal again and I can only listen to NSBM, for spiritual and political reasons. I will sub your channel and watch your videos. thank you

I wish more Metalheads had your common sense. Liked and Subscribed 🤘🏾

Isn’t it odd how musical projects based on national socialism are so forbidden whereas movies based on national socialism are acceptable to be shown in movie theaters?

You made a ton of great points here.. I agree with you across the board! Wish people would understand that black metal is, and always has been a fundamentally oppositional, and anti-everything genre. And I too don't really feel it's a good genre to express extreme political opinions. Nazism is, as many black metal musicians have expressed, not compatible with an entirely misanthropic ideology often found in black metal. It (NS) fundamentally concerns hierarchy within human society and when a band is expressing a highly Satanist, anti-human point of view, expressing political viewpoints doesn't really make sense since their views of Satanism often transcend and transgress human society. It makes zero sense for them to be boxed into the NSBM tag which in the mainstream media is completely meaningless. Furthermore it does make sense for a guy like Hoest to paint a swastika on his chest for shock value, considering part of walking a left-hand path of misanthropy is a disrespect and a disregard for societal expectations and taboos. It was basically a big "fuck you" to the country he was playing in, but was in no way an expression of being a neo-Nazi. And then the PC crowd will point out "but he also made hateful statements about Muslims therefore he's an Islamophobe!" Well he's known to be extremely anti-religious....that includes the Muslim religion, just like everyone else in black metal and almost the entire fandom. So to those I ask what's your point? Islam, like Christianity, is an oppressive ideology which deserves harsh criticism and dismissal. Bottom line, black metal is not and never should be a place for safe spaces and coddling.

Agreeing and relating with a lot said. I got my first annoying encounter years before the net would chew you up for farting in the wrong direction. It was only days after I shaved my long hair for a fundraiser....guy was adamant about my Celtic Frost t-shirt being too problematic for public display and wanted me to literally dispose of it in front of him. At the time, a close friend had dabbled with Antifa so I suspected that guy was one the angry bois from the movement (which he confirmed), but I knew from that day on that despite being apolitical, more misinformed bs was bound to come up. And it did, both to myself and people in my entourage, none of who are right-leaning... Also, Burzum is both the reason why I first got into the genre, and why I refused "idols" growing up. If anything, his later presence on yt confirmed I chose the right outlook.

Please bring back the NWN forum. It was destroyed because of this sensitive topic. Even tho it was a group of some of the nicest people I’ve ever met and there was only one topic about nsbm.

There are no rules in Black Metal. In the early days there was no need for the label NSBM because Black Metal WAS that extreme and underground. With the commercial bands (Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth etc.) Black Metal became "just another sub-category of Metal" for a lot of people. NSBM was born. I dont care for personal opinions on politics but I understand the martial aspect and faustian character that is lying in NSBM. In the end, the feeling in music and lyrics is important.

Thank you for this video Jerry - very interesting and I totally agree - Black Metal is Anti-social, Anti-human, Anti-relligious and basically ANTI. I also think it would be better to keep politics out of the music, since, well, I don't give a fuck about other people political opinions, I am totaly for individualism. As a Jewish person, although completely secular, I often find myself with needs to explain the difference between relligion beliefes and heritage. Some people don't seem to understand the difference. I totally agree that there is no point into labeling people, this goes both ways. A band with clear antisemitic content, can totally compromise my will to give it a listen. Although I am secular, this would be automatically considered as garbage, from my personal perspective (why should I spend my time on bands that put a label on Jewish people?). For me, Black Metal is more of being leading, and not led by ideals which I find rediculos. People like to be perceived as cool, tough, elite or just different - I get that, but I beleive that they should seek it in other forms. If they do truly believe this crap - by all means :) they are totally entitiled to express it in their art. For those few - just a small reminder - the Natzis lost the war, and even in Germany are considered as a shameful chapter in History. Similar to you, I am not strongly involved, nor moved, by political views, most are shitty (being Right or Left), and from history we can learn that usually, people with extreme political views and belives, don't contribute much and just bring self-inflicting degeneration to their followers. However, what are your thoughts about bands who identify as natzis (e.g. worhip the Natzi idiology / members of political movements) - coming from countries that were invaded and enslaved by the Natzi regime? for example NSBM bands, with anti-semitic views, coming from Poland or Eastern Europe or people from countries who confroted that regime (e.g. from the USA or the UK)?

I thought this was going to be more a history of the NSBM sub-genre, or something like that, but despite it being far from what I expected, I liked it, and thought soon good points were made. I’ll admit I don’t quite follow/understand every point you made, but I do agree with what seems to be your central point, which is that people are far too quick to label a metal band, *especially black metal bands,* as being Nazi, or fascists, and this is often based on little to no evidence, or is based on “guilt by association” type of bullshit logic. I can definitely sympathize with that point, and while it doesn’t normally effect bands/albums I like, I still think it’s BS.. (Though in 2019 it really effected an album I quite loved... more on that later..) My opinion is this: *a work of art, no matter the medium, and the artist who produced that work, whether one individual or multiple persons, are not inherently one and the same.* This is just a basic principle that I always start from, and then I determine all other content and context on a case by case basis. The word “inherently”, in that principle, is maybe the most important part; in other words, depending on any given situation, and the full context(s) of any situation, the art may be more difficult or more easy to separate from the artist. The content, meaning, and even the consequence of the art, and the artist’s ideas, actions, and intentions, are the main factors in any given situation that I would say are probably the most important for consideration, but depending on the situation, these are subject to change, and other factors may take precedent. The main point is that these things should be judged per every individual example, and that one should approach every individual analysis of art thinking critically, *or at least this is the approach that I try to always take regarding an analysis of art, whatever the medium.* This is quite a long comment already, but I’d like to give an example with an album/band I really love, that anyone reading this is likely to be aware of, because it caused quite a lot of controversy in 2019! I’m referring to French, experimental BM band, Deathspell Omega, and their album, ‘The Furnaces of Palingenesia’, which allegedly contained lyrics/messaging that was “fascistic/far right sympathetic”, or at least it possibly could be read that way. (Which I won’t deny... you can read many different messages, even those that are diametrically opposed, from the same exact “text”, be it a “work of art”, or non-art text. This literally happens constantly, and basically is inevitable. I’m no fan of Derrida, but he got this point 100% correct... but I digress.) It was very interesting to me to watch/read/listen to, the criticisms and the defenses of this album, both from music critics and fans alike, but it really seemed to me like 99% of these people missed the point, and I’m mainly talking people who were “anti-album”, but also I heard “arguments” from some “pro-album” ppl/fans that I thought failed to see the point as well. Anyway, without going into individual details of these cases, and writing another 10 paragraphs, I’ll say this: *I believe that if any given individual was to honestly examine all the relevant contexts related to the folks in Deathspell Omega who created the album, and also examine the relevant contexts related to the album, ‘The Furnaces of Palingenesia’, particularly if any individual bases said analysis on the criteria I listed above (and on anything else actually relevant to art/artist that they’re able to find), that it is NOT reasonable to conclude that ‘The Furnaces of Palingenesia’ is a “fascist sympathetic” album, nor do I think it is reasonable to conclude that Deathspell Omega are a fascist, or Nazi band, or even a right wing band, at all.* For folks who did come to these conclusions, I think one or more of three things was most likely taking place: they were either being too lazy in their research, and/or too lazy in their thinking, and/or, *and I think this really accounts for a lot of the negativity against the album, they were trying to protect themselves from a possibility of backlash, or “guilt by association” if they praised the album, so they concluded that their best bet was to either bash the art as “fascist”, or to ignore it completely/not revue it.* I’m not saying these were the ONLY things going on with folks who were screaming about Nazi furnaces, or whatever, but I think three things almost certainly cover 90%+ of the negative reactions. As far as the positive reactions that I thought missed the point, that comes down almost entirely to overly emotional fandom, which I can sympathize with, but I still think it lead to some poor defenses/takes. I am political, and quite far left, so I actually do care if a band I like is far right or fascist sympathetic, particularly if they’re engaged in actual neo-Nazi kind of activities, or if the members are involved in such far right groups. *As I said, I believe the separation of art and artist is VERY much so possible, depending on the specifics of the situation, so I don’t simply dismiss an album, or any other art, if it is made by an artist who is involved in such things, and I should also be clear that this art/artist separation doesn’t begin and end with politics, bc there’s obviously other factors that could be very important, like if the artist were a pedophile, or something else that’s obviously disgusting and not acceptable.* For me, this is important only in so far as I do not want to give my money to anyone who’s involved in things I find are actively harmful, so in this sense, I will still listen to a band’s music if I think it is good art, even if I know the members meet those “problematic standards”, but I wouldn’t buy their music, merchandise, or tickets. That’s my cutoff, and frankly, I think it is a reasonable standard. Soooo what of Deathspell Omega, and where that situation fits into this? Well, I simply think the evidence shows that the album’s contents are not fascist, or certainly not intended as such, even if one could somehow interpret them that way if they insist on it. Personally, I think they’re anti-authoritarian, and largely a repudiation of the “myth of progress”, and I don’t think that’s just my reading it that way, but also part of the actual intended message. What about the member who does the vocals? Well, apparently it is true that he has connections to certain nefarious things, and was at some point involved with far right groups (though I believe that’s PAST tense). Let’s say that he IS a very serious fascist, and not only that, but that he’s currently involved in nefarious activity, etc., and I’m saying it for the sake of argument, and to give the “anti-album” people as much fodder for criticism as possible. Okay, well the fact still remains that he is one member, and he’s not even the main creative force, and I’m almost completely certain that he didn’t write any of the lyrics, or the music, but that he was invited into the recording simply because of his vocal ability. I’m (not) sorry, but I think it’s just incredibly reductive and childishly simplistic to conclude that, because the person delivering the vocals has far right politics, that the band is therefore far right, or that the art is “tainted”, or something like that. I think that’s an incredibly stupid conclusion, and that it intentionally ignores *the overwhelming majority* of the context necessary to analyze the art/artist. Anyway, I think I made my point a long while back, and then just got on a role, and rambled too long! Hopefully someone finds this useful, if they actually have the patience to read all this crap. Ultimate point: art and artist should be separated, and Deathspell Omega aren’t a fascist band, no matter what details one may dig up about the vocalist. ♾

excellent piece rauta and well thought out and presented, i think after the anti church scene died down and now we have an anti left wing scene, within it all there is some amazing musick, your argument was excellent, thats what we need, more conversation, thank you, x

Here in Germany, that topic of course is very sensitive and specific signs are illegal. I like nsbm for the music and couldn't care less about the lyrics. I don't have to agree with what the band is saying. The same with very left bands. It's quite sad that bands like Taake or basically every band nowdays gets accused to be a nazi band.

Musicians who advocate values like racism, xenophobia or anti-semitism should not be supported. Your mindset determines your actions and people who become violent against other people because of ideology are ALL anti-democratic and therefore should not be tolerated. This is also true for the left-wing aggressors by the way. The mantra is "If you tolerate them and if you you do not boycott them, you are supporting them!" If you do not agree with them you should not support them.

Mislabelling things as NS when they're definitely not is certainly a problem. But at the same time, I think it's a useful label so people who aren't "just about the music" know what they're dealing with. I don't actively set out to listen to NS music because I disagree with their views incredibly strongly. But if I stumble across a band, like the music and they happen to be NS then that's different, but I'm unlikely to spend my money on getting their music directly.

I am glad that you did a clarification of this and explaining what it is. Because there are bands that can get the label that aren't for example like Horna, Marduk, and taake from one isolated incident by a performance or lyrics or artwork or being associated with a certain label. But I do agree that if they are NSBM, don't be in the middle because it confuses people and your in a gray area like for example like baise ma hache or peste noire. Also people jumped to the assumption when people hear national romanticism or mythology of some sort of country.

As a Jewish person from Israel I listen to NSBM a lot, don't get offended and even find some of its lyrics interesting, although most times I only enjoy the music itself. Many people here in Israel get offended by people like me who do listen as if it's some sort of sin or self discrimination / hate - but I prefer putting this aside and just enjoy music, doesn't matter if it's NSBM or not 🖤

NSBM is something that I like..it resonate with my inner self so much..sorry if I offended someone..I dont care:)

Thank you for this video, I’m quite interested in the subject and you delivered plenty of food for thought. Can I ask you to expand a bit on what you state between 14:30 and 15:00? I’m used to question myself about something like that every time the subject comes up in my mind. It’s a clash between the feral savagery of the music and the structured hygiene of authoritarian political propaganda, isn’t it? But then again… the clean, ordered society that every regime advertises relies on more or less hidden atrocities. Just freewheeling, sorry 😅

Agree with you,...hysteria!

As I've been saying, the new satanic panic is the fascist panic- people are jumping to extreme conclusions for symbols or associations used, bands getting cancelled for being accused of being something they're not. And I don't see the issue with a band being full of card carrying nazis if they don't actually express those views as a band, and honestly, even if they were I don't really care; political extremism is cringe and gay, but extreme music is going to (and should) atteact those who wish to express extreme ideas. Most of the time it's just to be edgy and shock people anyway, much like the satanic panic of the 80s, most of these people just do it because the culture has swung so far to the left, it's one of the only ways to be really subversive of expectations and shocking. There is a strong sense of malaise in people who don't care about politics getting sick of the far left crap getting pushed everywhere, and just actively want to upset and anger these people.

Great video and cheers to you for having the balls to confront this issue without bias. Full disclosure I’m not a National socialist nor is my band, but the things you bring up in terms of folks being ‘cancelled’ simply because they may use Runes as part of their logo or artwork or perhaps they worship the Norse pantheon of God’s is completely idiotic. It’s laziness on the part of the people who want to label bands as such. In my opinion, the whole problem with this is that people cannot seem to have a nuanced conversation any more. Too many black and white thinkers out there. So, anyway keep up the great videos! 🤘🤘

Hyvä video. NS, fascist and pro-white ideologies fit well in black metal context. Black metal has always been about dark side of moral values and RESISTANCE. In nowadays highly explosive political climate, NSBM is more relevant than it ever was. Also, I see it only does good that BM goes more into underground once again. Glad you talked about this subject very objectively Jerry. Most people are too scared to even talk about it and those who do talk, are mostly moralists without anything interesting to say.

I thought Black Metal and Death Metal were supposed to be dangerous. It seems as if it is just becoming a new high school clique.

Bruh it's just music lol. So many people look sideways about any kind of Christian Hate Ideology or War Themed black metal. "It's racist, it's hateful," blah blah blah. I in fact love the people who whine about someone liking bands like Burzum or Deathspell Omega. It's music I find inspiration in as well and i value the power of the sound.

SLAVA NSBM!! SLAVA RAUTA!!!!! ⚔⚔

Great take on this Rauta! I'm polarized on the subject when Im thinking too black/white hahah cheers

I can't say "I don't care if it is NSBM if i like the music" because i used to rate music art in all it's form including visual appeareance, lyrics, drum patterns, guitar riffs, tones and so and so. If you can't perceive this music as art due to disagreement in personal beliefs thats the individual problem until this type of music go beyond art field. But Black Metal for me always had a side in form of provoke or war against certain things and it always pleased me. For me it is a strong will against some things must be essential for NSBM, a spirit of disagreement and war. And this is totaly fine in Black Metal. But if a band is just prising some controversual politics or making more news than music it is says about lack of creativity as an artist for me. I will give a listen for a band anyway, despite the controversual cover for album or a bad reputation but my relation for artist will be based on overall music; other elements should be themed with music to benefit it. NSBM is fine until its stays in art zone but where does art zone ends is a personal question for everyone especially in provoking Black Metal. My apology if this text is incomprehensible . I tried to make my point and i think I am lost my mind somewhere while was writing this pile of shit.

Comparing Jewish people from ghettos forced to wearing the star to black metal musicians who have to "suffer" the criticism for their politics is just not serious at all... It's good and important video but I missed the reasons why some people and groups are fighting nsbm. Nazis do not respect humans rights and that's why I don't cry when some bands are cancelled because of having a nazi member.

One of the issues we have here in the US is that there are quite a few metal scenes are miserable with open Neo Nazis and many more that don't oppose them and these fools are totally welcome to attend shows with no hassle. A lot of pagans here also are either white nationalists or provide cover and make excuses for them instead of distancing themselves. I've talked to quite a few people in different parts of Europe who've also said the same. So for some people from this context it's kinda difficult to separate the Nazis and Nazi apologists from the apolitical BM bands, especially if they aren't very familiar with BM and know everything about each band (something that can be hard given how obscure a lot of bands are intentionally). It becomes almost an inevitability that wherever Nazis exist free of resistance, people will associate that space with Nazis and unfortunately many metal scenes and venues have been labeled just that for that reason. If BM gets entirely linked with NS nerds it'll be the death of the genre in my opinion. RABM was a response to NSBM so I don't think it's fair to even compare the two even though I don't care for many RABM bands if I'm honest. But the good RABM bands I've found have found ways to integrate old school BM vibes and lyrical subject matter into their music instead of just being punk lyrics with BM music lol Maybe it's easy for you because if they had their way you'd be fine, but for those of us who are the targets of their hate, we don't have that luxury even if we can overlook their goofy, LARPy lyrics. Most everyone I know, left, right, center or apolitical, opposes fascism. And given that the world is literally on fire, becoming less free by the day, tyrants are popping up everywhere and nothing can change simply by screaming into a computer to make music almost no one listen to (like all the music I listen to 😂), it makes no since to not be political. It's kinda pathetic to see so many people whine about the world then do nothing to change it. We know how fascism turns out, we know how Leninism turns out, we know how social democracy turns out, we know how liberal "democracy" turns out, they've all been miserable failures and the cause of the misery. Crying in corpse paint alone won't change anything, therapeutic yes, change...never once. But my connection to BM was always from my hip hop roots that quickly went to punk/hardcore when I met some squatters who schooled me and then put me in tune with crust, powerviolence and grindcore which inevitably led to crossover bands like Iskra which lead to straight BM. So I'm definitely biased 😂 Down with fascism, I will not be a victim!

If an artist has an extremist ideological outlook that I can't countenance but it's not overtly promoted in the lyrical content and I actually like the music, I will listen to it. Also, a member in a band with dodgy views or at one time held such does not necessarily make the band dodgy. Personally, I choose to eschew bands who are pushing an outright political message at variance with my general libertarian outlook but I've got no time whatsoever for cancel culture and modern day witch hunting. Yes, I hate racism and Nazism but I loathe the woke cultural Marxist regressive left too.

Is there a musical difference between NSBM & "standard" BM? Like, do NSBM add "Oi" or "power electronics" into their sound?

Great video,I do like some nsbm bands like Sunwheel,Kataxu and Temnozor.,if someone is offended by any type of black metal maybe this is not the type of music for them.

Finally, political topics I can get behind. Love your stuff Rauta, keep rockin!

In my opinion grand father of finnish nsbm is Dysangelium. Many dont know that band like i do. Internet does not have much info about this one man project. Totally worth of checking out. No poser shit!

Very interesting and fair commentary. Cheers!