WHAT IS THE BEST CYLINDER HEAD FOR MY 5.0L FORD? WHY I CHOOSE THE 185 AFR OVER THE 165 AFR HEAD. 

That’s pretty damn close to the ideal street set up, just needed a turbocharger to complete the build! 😉

@@aaronliddell4280 I always wanted to do a S trim on it making about 10lbs, but unfortunately I lived in Houston Tx for a while after highschool , and it was stolen and stripped!

@@chandlerlofton6536 😢

​@@aaronliddell4280And then you can kiss your reliability goodbye.

The 185’s have larger valves, which may interfere with stock pistons. The 165’s (1399) have 1.9” Intake, 1.6” exhaust valves which they guarantee to work with stock pistons.

I did

I have that combo back in 2000 i think 393 afr 185 xe282 hr vic jr

do the 185s have bigger valves? or just you might as well run more cam on the bigger heads?

@@totensiebush yes 2.02 to 1.90

I was thinking the same, although I contacted afr and they recommended a 185 head with smaller valves compatible with the stock shortblocks.

seen first?

the other option would have been to build a 347 out of the 5.0 and put steel caps on it. that way you would have had the cubes + the clearance

@KingJT80 Sex up in a hammock! Why spend all that money on an 8.2 block! The rod/stroke ratio sucks, it's a hand grenade, and Noone fall for that "it's only a 306 ")

That is at the crank with straight headers no exhaust no accessories turning etc. I'm sure you know that but that wouldn't even see 300 wheel in a car more than likely. Still decent for such a restrictive head.

@@midnight347 I'm aware it's a situation where a much better head would be worth 80,90 even 100+ HP over them.

@Dennis Robinson and that is exactly what these aftermarket companies do they take a maxed out combo otherwise (besides heads) and add the heads and they add 100 hp and the company will advertise "up to 100 hp gain" which isn't lying but it's misleading

@@midnight347 sure isn't.

please see the port volume video

its not really to big that vid.. gotta remember the 302 had cleveland heads and loved it to.. and from memory they where 300cfm at 600

Bigger isn't always better.

if the port volume is too much, the port velocity drops off and it tends to zap the low speed torque. Check out Fords' Boss 429 heads from the early 70s (essentially the basis for a NASCAR race engine). To try to make it streetable, Ford tried moderate carburation, mild cams, and yet the engine was still flat in the low and midrange, compared to other engines.

I’ve been on the opposite side of the fence. I like a small runner volume head with high flow. But that’s because I like quick throttle response and good low end torque on the street. On the track where you live on the floor board, that’s not going to make a difference. The bigger heads will be better for full tilt power.

Use a 351 or 351 based stroker. that lets you keep the airspeed up with displacement instead of revs, and allows room for greater overall torque output.

@@Cowboy.underwater missed my point. The video was talking about a 302. That head would be ideal for a 351 in a heavy vehicle (according to manufacturer s). Going by the video why not use a 210cc?

@@scottmanuel5418 because whats your main purpose. a 210 is a 7000+ RPM head on a 351W stroker. a 185 on a 302 is a 6500 rpm head and a 6000 RPM heads on a 351. how high you feel like revving it to make that power? they DO make more power on a dyno but you dont drive a dyno around pulling things im assuming? that and the valve on the 165 is a 1.90 meant to be a bolt on to a stock block 5.0 after 86. the 185 has a common 2.02 and youre gonna need pistons or flycutting.

We're doing Cleveland chats in other discussions. The stock cleveland 4V head flowed 275CFM@.600", most people built bad combos. With a valve job they flow 310CFM@.600" and with bowl work and a valve job the flow 305CFM@.500" and 333CFM@.600", they are some bad asses. The modern day Cleveland head is the CHI which are made in Austrailia and they are used in 600-1000HP build ups. Cleveland heads dominate on low lift flow. The Flow at .300" lift is 235 or so where a good windsor head will be a little over 200.

not yet

according to the data-AFR might have something to say about that

yep 86-after 5.0 bolt on

There's never any proof of that on this channel. Stock GM 376 cubic inch ls3 has a 257cc intake runner and makes more power everywhere than a ls2 with a 210cc intake runner.

its all about purpose. he MIGHT kick your but but if the 235 is tuned correctly with the right gearing that story might end up different its the whole package. now if its a 170 vortec vs a say, the AFR 180 the 180 will walk that vortec. hell even an as cast 185 enforcer will walk that vortec head. i mean its meant to be a company van head. not so much a performance head. thats why they also made bowtie 185 and 225 vortec versions that have 2.00 valves and bigger ports. those are performance oriented

you need to do more research

Exactly what I was trying to do. A comparison isn't a comparison when you change everything mid test...

Id like to know the same

would be a completely different cam and intake and short block and valve train

@@richardholdener1727 I bet I'm not the only one interested in a high reving 302!

nice try

@@richardholdener1727 it's in the math! Look at it again.

@@richardholdener1727 unless you're saying the AFR 165 heads make less power then the E7s on the larger motor!

Looks like new renegade heads (which have been out since 2012, so old too!). 'The old outlaws flowed 129I/118E at .200 lift. I know, I'm using them. The outlaws intake was -10cfm on average compared to the 185 renegades and +5cfm on average against the 165 renegades.It's the exhaust that blows the old versions away, like +20...and both the new 185 & 165 intake and exhaust flow #s are the same upto .300 lift! explains why you want the 185s hands down if you can do the piston clearancing.

YES-GOOD FOR BOTH

I don't think I have-but we did run RPM heads-they worked well

​@@richardholdener1727 Im buying those 185s like I shouldve the first time but i was being cheap lol 😢 Great video. I'll be replicating that 333 setup

it "felt" faster

165 vs 185 on a mild combo will produce similar power numbers

WATCH THE EXPLORER INTAKE VIDEO

@Richard Holdener thanks I was able to port my explorer by cutting a window into the side and making a 1/4" aluminum plate cover to bolt on. So I should be close to the GT 40

these were before those names existed

A stock 302 doesn't make 300 hp-this was not a stock motor

the ones that AFR has for those heads for 600-lift hyd roller cams

@@richardholdener1727 those are the ones that came on the heads, I wasn’t sure if they would work, comp says they want a minimum of .060 between coils at full lift..

I do not know much about blowers but I would love to thrown one on have it stick out of the hood

it works the same-just more boost

well here''s the deal. the 165 is a bolt on for 5.0 roller motors the 185 isnt because of the big 2.02 valve if i had a stroker yes, id use a 185..even the enforcer will work with flat tops in a 331 and im thinking about that for next yr..

WHAT IS WITH YOU AND APPLES AND ORANGES

@@richardholdener1727 I like fruit, it’s good for ya 😉

JUST ASK

@@richardholdener1727 who? The head manufacturer or you or? In other words, I’m asking! Lol

flat tappet made more than a roller?

@@richardholdener1727 only qouting/relaying

shit 13:1 on a 363?! 220 LOL and that cam is WAYYYYYY too small for that compression and some e85. use a big solid roller that will go to 8500 that 248 might go to 7000+ on a 363 and 205's

@@KingJT80 Im sure 205s on a 363 would be great to 7k, to 7,300 rpm, as i had a 400+ cu. In. Sm. Block with 200cc heads, and a solid roller cam before, and those heads did not flow nowhere near as good as the Tfs 205 11r, or Afr 210s. Yes, 7,000rpm is the max rpm i wanted my 13 to 1 comp., E85, 363 combo, to go to, as i dont want to go to shaft rockers, and i dont want to always adjust lash of a solid roller cam. The xfi 248, is a very healthy hyd. Roller= 248 @ .050 on the intake duration, and 258 @ .050 on the exh. duration, with a 112° Lca. I wonder what this combo would prefer, 1 3/4 longtubes, or 1 7/8 longtubes? I also think the parker funnel web single plane with a 2 inch 4 hole super sucker spacer, under a E85 950 would out perform a super victor, in average Hp, and torque, from 4,000 to 7,000 rpm?

@@evilinside5984 I'd think an e85 oriented 850 would be more than enough carburetor for 363 even at 110% VE of a race style engine but yes that's pretty big hydro roller cam. I think you could get away with adjusting lash every oil change on a solid roller. I tossed around the idea on my 302 but since I'm only going to 6500. A hydraulic cam would work I'd think if you really want a max effort 363, the solid roller will make more power and rev faster and the 205s of either AFR or TF will come with solid roller springs by default because they know most people at that level are ditching the hydro roller for a solid roller and they just use regular rocker arms and stud girdles and let it eat

@@KingJT80 If i could get a solid street roller custom cam made for the 363, i would run it. I had a solid street roller cam before in a 9 to 1 comp. 400+ cu. In. Sm. Blk., 255 deg. Dur. @ .050 straight across, with an air gap rpm intake, only 1 5/8 longubes, 200cc iron eagles, gas 750 dp., shifted @ 6,500 rpm, 4,000 stall speed tq. Converter, n @ 3300lbs., ran 11.57 @115Mph, w/1.60 sec. 60ft. And i only lashed the valves twice in about 10 years, of street driving, and going to the track a few times a year!

the 165 will work well on a 306

FEELS SNAPPIER!

@@richardholdener1727 I take this for sarcasm, as opposed to answering the question, so I'll be more direct: How big of a blind spot do you think WOT pulls on an engine dyno have with regard to driveability and "smiles per mile" with a street car? Some of us autocross. Dyno pulls happen at WOT, and unless its a drag car, a car spends 1% or less of it's life in that operating condition.

@@smoberley most people have actually done this if you read the mustang forums and they'll tell you the 185 is better on the 302 unless you have a completely stock block then the 1.90 valve'd 165 is what most people used. they proved this years ago using the renegades. the drivability difference is negligible, but the cars were faster down the track more times than not so just run the 185s on a 302. and why would you buy a smaller head for the exact same price? this is how the TF 11r 170 vs the 190 is. same price. more head thats what i wanna do or the TF 190 11Rs or Promaxx project X 185s on my 302 zephyr

I 've seen the same results you have. I've owned literally 50 fox bodies, including Fairmonts and T-birds. I've done loads of 302s over the last 30 years. I own a Mustang chassis dyno. The question wasn't which makes more peak power, the question was why not run them against each other on the same motor and see the results. Probably because on a 302, the 185s are going to show a loss of power and torque under 3500-4000 vs the 165s. That deficit increases at part throttle (Dynos are at WOT). Where you're going to spend all of your time when you're actually driving the car, and is also useful on an autocross course. Perfectly valid reasons to choose a smaller head for all kinds of applications and thus relevant to all the non drag-car enthusiasts on this channel. I've had both sets of heads on 302s and I can tell you the 165 is a lot more fun on a stock cube motor, even if it is a tenth or two slower on the dragstrip. If. The "FEELS SNAPPIER" clapback is a really dismissive, snotty response to objectively verifiable reality. It's also in quotes even though that's not what I said.

@@smoberley what you lack in torque (which is negligible again) you will make up for if youre picking the right stall converter and cam. the only reason id go with a 165 is piston clearance on stock pistons like an 86GT autocross street..wouldnt matter as said a 185 is better all the way around. then you dont have to buy the head again/port them if you wanted to go to 347...youre already there with the heads. they cost the same. im not buy a smaller head for the same price just so i can gain MAYBE an extra 5 ft lbs under 3k when im already gonna use a 3k stall with the 3.55s i have

HEAD WORK THE SAME ON BOTH CARB AND EFI COMBOS

part throttle might be different

yes because youre getting into the "race" heads and the need for the single plane intake they make

you must be new here

you know how many dynos this guy has ran?! since the late 90s ?! LOL

@@KingJT80I don't believe something just because somebody tells me its true. I want to see scientific testing using scientific methods. I stand behind my statement. This video is pseudo science at best, and not befitting someone of Richard's dyno experience.

yes-pick the intake based on your desired power curve (where you want it to make power)

THE DYNO TELLS US WHAT PORT VELOCITY DOES

you need to check p-v with your cam and those heads/pistons

those are easy junkyard pieces

I cannot find those parts in 🇨🇦 I have searched everywhere online.

no sir

@@richardholdener1727 I'd love to see the Northstar throttle body mod on the L67 with GenV blower.

heads work the same-most EFI systems limit power

YES

the heads tested here were cnc and for the 408-I would step up to a 205

It depends on your setup, but 500 wheel can be as much as 600 crank. That’s a serious NA motor that will require a minimum of 300 cfm from the heads. Your looking at the AFR 220 heads and a solid roller cam.

They are full CNC heads

lots of choices

Skate some with me please

195-205 AFRs

need more info, how much power do you want to make, what rpm, what is the intake? etc...

@@richardholdener1727 it has a wiend stethl intake 750 Holley deep sump oil pain with windage tray and a high pressure oil pump stock stroke stock piston stock rods cam is advanced cam has Been degreed about 350 hp or 400 6500 max on rpm

AFR 165 OR TFS 11R

@@richardholdener1727 appreciate the help would the 2.02 valve clear the stock pistons ptv

depends on cam duration (not lift)

OR A 225, 245 OR 265-THERE IS ALWASY COMMON SENSE TO APPLY HERE

@@richardholdener1727 Not so common.

With stock bottom you have the valve relief issue...

DURATION SPECS (I'M SURE THAT IS YOUR QUESTION) ARE USUALLY MEASURED AT .050 OR ADVERTISED (WHICH CAN VARY)