What is the best kneading technique? 

I’m team hand kneader as well. I find making bread by hand therapeutic.

It could be a shaping error… Hard to say, based on just one loaf. Had he shown us the gluten network of both doughs, then you could have a better idea why one rose taller. If the gluten network looked similar, then this would point to a shaping issue; assuming of course both got the same amount of bulk fermentation, temperature, etc. BTW, I thought I had seen it all but those oven bags are quite handy for when baking at someone else’s house… Nice!

I agree with you. The machine kneaded one is better in shape and even crumb. If you wanted the hand knead one to also have better gluten development you should have folded 3 times instead of just one fold.

he only folded them once, and/or never kneaded the hand kneaded bread. had he done more folding, and/or kneaded the bread it would've raised more.

yep, after baking many many loafs so far, kneading for 6-7 minutes after the autolyse does the job plus a couple sets of folds @@asielnorton345

Agreed

Oh! Thanks for pointing that out. I was getting all excited about these bags; not for when I bake at home since I have the Challenger bakeware, but when baking at someone else’s home since most likely they wouldn’t have the tools unless they were bread bakers themselves.

Phthalates aka the penis shrinker.

I don’t trust plastics to be in contact with food. Between the possibility of chemicals leaching into the food, and scratches in the plastic that are a haven for bacteria, I prefer glass or metal. My starters are in glazed ceramic pots with fitted lids that my sister made me just for this purpose. My sourdough is always in a glass or stainless mixing bowl and I use a pot lid to hold the moisture in. Of course, I bake it in a cast iron Dutch oven. No plastics in any of that.

@@ppainterco The bags are single use so no worries about scratches. The only "chemicals" one needs to be concerned with is Bisphenol and Phthalates (they are plasticizers & the latter is the "new car smell;" Phthalates leaching out of the vinyl) and you can always read the label if that's of concern to you

@@Raul28153 yeah, we’ll, we heard the same about BPA. Glass and metal for me. I don’t trust my food in plastic anymore.

There is another video showing the hook vs paddle and why the paddle creates better gluten development.

What oven is that?? Where can I buy it??

You probably think right. Ive tried so far quite a few methods for kneading , and many no knead recipes and really not kneading at all. And only doing stretch + fold definitely impairs gluten development, or if not gluten development, it impairs resulting bread structure to some degree. When it comes to regular bread, its better to not cut any corners. And ofc Bertinet method is apparently the best. At least from what I tried. Other option, which IMHO is okay way to "cheat" is to do something around half machine, half handmade. Got so far pretty good results when I let mixer start and after it gets to some decent structure I finish it by hand. Less work, about same results.

@@corwinblack4072​Yep, I’ve realised that dough will basically look after itself but you can help a little with a different kneading method. For dry dough, use the hand kneading method - e.g. traditional Paul Hollywood UK hand knead. For wet dough use the Bertinet method ( a lot of fun this), and if you’re bored of a five minute knead then bowl stretch and fold about three/four times (if you have 2-3 hours). But simply mixing everything together for 4-5 mins and then letting the dough rest for 10-15 minutes will likely show the same results! Dough is an amazing animal - but the making sure the starter is active sure helps - I always preferment the day before so it’s nice and hungry.

At higher hydrations the dough hook will never knead the dough properly, but the paddle attachment will

Dirty rubber not withstanding; U R Right. There needs a side by side comparison. Divide the starter in two & go from there. Smaller loaves (4 maybe), one set uses the "machine" dough on top rack/the other set machine on lower rack. It's possible that the outcome will mirror the video. Interesting X-periment.

Not to mention that the top one looks to be baked on a pizza/bread steel and the bottom one is just on a pan. The steel will contain significantly more heat than the pan one and that will impact the oven spring. Unfortunately not much to take from this experiment, could have looked exactly opposite if you switched the two loves around.

@@EJHonn Nice, I noticed that too, but I didn't believe that a person who presents himself as a professional would make such a mistake

To be clear I thing this channel is really good in general, but everyone has their off-day :)

@@EJHonn Yep! Gotta be "even Steven" to prove / disprove the questionables.

When I use hi hydration doughs I prefer the paddle.

@@glutenmorgentven thank you. It makes a lot of sense. Keep the good work.

Use the best tools available Do you ride a horse or drive a car.

It´s a bag for baking chicken, fish, etc.

I would like to know too

Who wants to speak French, and certainly not in the context of food. After all, there is no real French cuisine. They eat anything that doesn't run fast enough.

In the states it is termed as "bread flour."

Strong flour is bread flour.

It is possible to mix a 1 loaf recipe in a bread machine, but if you try to make the whole loaf in the machine the timing will probably be off, because sourdough typically needs more time to ferment than yeasted dough. There are a couple of high dollar bread machines that have a sourdough setting.

@@barrychambers4047 tq for ur reply.

If every time you feed the starter with very little amount of water and flour you will end up with a very active starter however the dough will tear apart and collapse between your hands, that’s I guess due to high acidity of the starter. That was a problem I used to encounter but solved it after I read about acidity issue by feeding a small a mount of starter with big amount of flour and water.

@@user-rr7lo5ir9r I cannot agree or disagree, I have limited experience with making sourdough, so I have to speak from a chemical standpoint. There are many possible issues with dough, and gluten formation, the trouble is, maintaining all factors at the same level, then varying only one of the possibilities. I would like to say this. the other night, i forgot to add the salt, the dough and gluten formation were perfect, I then realized I needed to add salt, when I did, the whole batch became an unconsolable sticky mess. I worked with it, and cooked it. . it was okay. So, I added salt to the flour the next time, when the water was added, within one minute of mixing on the lowest setting possible (Kitchen aid Pro stand mixer), the whole thing turned to soup, I had to add 25% more flour than I started with to bring it together. I think that salt plays a bigger part than acidity (Only my opinion)

It's a cancerogen

It´s plastic, but it´s made for baking poultry, fish, etc.

After carefully followed your presentations finally after seven trials I arrived a fantasticly risen bread. 6th version was a disaster because forgot to add salt.😂😂😂😢😢😢. Have been using 12,7% bread flour. Just purchased gluten and will try to increase it to 14%. Been using mixer for kneeding. But in a short while I will dive into hand kneeding. THANK YOU Morgen.

I followed this recipe exactly like in the video but it was a fail. No wheat flour, nott enough stretch and folds or long enough proof time perhaps.

The percentages usually refer to the percentage of the flour, total flour being 100%. I don't remember what hydration he used here was (I don't feel like going back to rewatch that part) but like 70% water usually means a 70% hydration dough... 70 g of water for every 100 g of flour.

He is stupid. That it

Everyone's a critic!