3:42 That's a pretty good looking power curve already. I like the way power is close to 550 HP starting at 6200, and just hangs there. But I'm wondering something. If you would put strong enough valve springs in it, how much farther could you rev the engine until the power drops off to 500 HP? Saying you could get to 7500 rpm, you would have an engine that makes over 500 HP from 5500 to 7500 rpm. That way, when you shift to the next higher gear, you would already have 500 HP available. 7:30 Hey, look! The TBSS manifold adds power everywhere. Holdener Effect kicks in, making manifold more expensive everywhere.
I’m hearing this as...truck manifold flows up to 550 NA hp at 7k rpm, Tbss buys you 15 more hp, and then it’s $1k to get a manifold that makes as much as a 50 shot of nitrous or 2 psi of boost. Think I’m keeping the truck manifold.
Also need to keep in mind of the extra cost in fuel rails, bigger tb, possible bigger injectors, and the steam vent has to be modified for the lsxrt intake to fit. The tbss intake and 90mm tb is the most cost effective route to go in my opinion.
TBSS intake = DIY work, such as sealing the holes on the top and tapping your own MAP sensor fitting in the rear and hood clearance issues and possible firewall clearance issues, pending application, which can be solved with an angle grinder.
@@moabman6803 the tbss intake is still the better choice. IF the gen 3 does make more torque below 3k, it's very minimal and it's definitely not enough to justify how much better the tbss intake is the rest of the rpm range.
@@bradp9938 According to the dyno chart I saw it's significantly more. Here is my source: m.facebook.com/bdturnkeyengines/posts/gen3-intake-78mm-tb-vs-gen4-intake-90mm-tbi-have-been-seeing-online-that-putting/706995822964685/
Depends on your application but the Dorman or trail blazer SS per dollar spent seem to work well without a lot spent and would work well for street driving with a wider torque curve throughout most of the rpm range while being very respectable in the upper rpm range
Sbe turbo don't mind the torque loss down low because they cut timing at peak torque to try to make the engines live. That's one good thing about the high ram.
Love my Mamo ported fast 102 worked well on my sbe ls6 and now works even better on my 427 ls3. Was planning on trying to find a trailblazer intake for old ls6 longblock now
Torque is always important to me, the more I can get down low and mid the better.my SRT 10 boosted was a beast with stock exhaust manifolds, headers killed the power down low, up top great, but not worth the loss, intakes do the same thing..
tbss had more power and torque through out the curve and was only 40hp shy of the fast manifold. i won't drag race the truck and $500-$700 on a compete tbss with x link cable vs $1200+rails+injectors+throttle body it's a no brianer if you're racing or going over 650 hp with forced induction then do the hi ram or the fast intake
This is one reason my coyote is kinda dead below 3000rpm with vvt delete. The 18 mustang intake is like 3000 to 7000. Don't expect your intake to make tones of power everywhere.
Man I’ve went back to that article at least 50 times, I put a fast 92 on my 370 and gained 5 mph over an ls6 intake. I have a summit cam 231/243 I believe, with 706 heads I did some work on. I’d love to see a header test on a motor similar to that one. Start at 1 5/8 primaries and go up to around 2 1/4 to see the difference
@@drivinwithdrew7676 a lot of that information is already out there. Sub 400 cubic inch "street-ish"(ie not full out 8500-9000rpm, 14:1, big head, yada yada) engines are giving up low-mid range torque with a 1.75" primary and gaining nothing up high.
Richard, Thank you for all the knowledge and insights you've shared with the LS community. I have an idea for another intake video. Can you do a four-way comparison on a gmt800 5.3L: 1) stock truck intake and 78mm TB 2) TBSS intake, with the a 4-bolt to 3-bolt adaptor, and the gmt800 78mm throttle body. 3) TBSS intake with the gmt900 87mm throttle body 4) TBSS intake with an LS2 or equivalent 90mm throttle body The main point of the exercise being to bring to light how much power is to be gained or left on the table by the three TB options. If the 78mm & TBSS upgrade produces decent results, then the average NBS enthusiast doing the swap could potentially avoid shelling out $250-300 for the X-Link 8-pin to 6-pin adaptor. Clearly the 78mm TB becomes the bottleneck in that system. The 90mm is the most potent TB for the high end of the RPM band. What about real world conditions under 5500rpms? I believe this analysis would shed some light on the cost/benefit ratio for the swap. If someone could get say 75% of the performance gains, with half the investment, they may conclude that the swap is more palatable. On paper the 90mm vs the 87mm will produce marginally different results. How much is to be had with those extra 3mm, and is it worth the investment?
@@richardholdener1727 That makes sense. Thank you for for the timely reply. Could you possibly run a cable operated 78mm TB off a 99-02 truck instead? That result could be compared to a cable operated 90mm TB on the same engine/intake combination. The 87mm comparison would have exit the analysis, but those results should be very close to the 90mm unit. The question becomes how much increase is actually observed for the extra 12mm (78 vs 90) of throttle body opening. Thank you again for all the knowledge you've shared with us over the years.
@@richardholdener1727I have a 5.3ls btr truck Norris cam headers long tubes 4.10 gears 3200 stall cold air filter what's the best intake and tb setup for a gen1 5.3
Building a 6.0 for an airboat. Max rpms are 5500-6000. Which cam and intake combo would u Suggest? I love watching your videos and knowledge . Your opinion would be greatly appreciated .
@@sean5comet you've got 8 cylinders "randomly" opening and sucking down air, changing the direction, density of the air inside the manifold.. hes already done videos showing a 1 point variation across cylinders, and it ain't due to dirty injectors.
I remember when you published these tests, I went out and bought a TBSS intake for $75 then DIY installed it on my LS1 GTO. All the work was worth the power per dollar. The FAST is too damn expensive for what it is, a chunk of over priced plastic. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EJKE_Jud5JM.html Was about to reference the Dorman LS2 because back a few years ago it came to market at $400-$450 and had equivalent power gains to the TBSS intake. Holy hell, they increased the price to $921!?!?!?! Not worth it!
The 615-183 is a manifold that hasn’t been tested it has a 78mm opening for the throttle body (I believe) and it’s a 4.8 5.3 6.0 replacement intake manifold from the original look the part number 615-183 dorman and various other manufacturers make them it is not a tbss or ls2 manifold
I have been wanting to put one of those holley lids on a aviator lower. I know KarKraft made an upper that made good power, but cost a hefty amount. I will likely try this sooner than later seeing how nice those lids preform
@@hondatech5000 Ive seen it used on a plethora of manifolds. Assuming you've got the hood clearance for a forward facing throttle body and tall lid, they have tons of airflow potential.
@@madmod I'm going to try and get it billeted, and make it available either 3d printed for N/A or billeted for boost, I'm also going to billet an adapter to fit a shelby m122 on that flange and line up.
Love the videos sir ! I have a 84 Caprice and I have a ls 6.0 bored over 30 with a sloppy stage 2 cam . Would the stock truck intake be good for my car? I want to drive my car everyday to work and put on a track sometimes
Do you still plan on getting into the cam market? Or have you already done it and I missed the video? Was just rewatching old videos and saw the one from June of last year where you were talking about it
Some of my friends and I were gonna wait but then one of us bought a SS2, then I bought a SS2... most of my LS friends already swapped cams at this point.
Here is my personal experience. I had a single plain victor Jr efi on my NA 6.0 with Texas speed cam and went 127mph in the 1/4 and from all the hype about the tbss intake I put it on and the best mph it ever went was 124mph. So long story short the tbss went a better 60ft and 330ft but lost everywhere else, mph and e.t.. I also feel if the car had a looser converter to take advantage of the better top end it would have went even faster with the Vic jr
Im using a ls1 carb swap dual plane intake a 5.2 or 5.9 dodge throttle body and a set of 5.7 l31 fortec injector spider ( the later port injector style) mounted from underneath to hide all efi stuff
I watching these videos and I see thr fast talked about so much. Yes it produces more power but the cost! I like to see more tests on low profile intake. I have a LS2 I want to boost and can't fine much info on. Other then early NA applications. It is what I have. I need hood clearance and on a budget and this is the intake I am running. Have you ever tested a stock LS2 with boost?
Hi Richard, great video! Question: Im sure a lot of guys swap an LS into a muscle car and just use a stock cable 78 mm throttle body from an older truck intake that is easy to hook to gas pedal like I did with an adapting throttle cable. And as sloppy Matt Happel said in a video on MAC valve controlling table in terminator, a lot of guys first get turbo cars and crash because they go to lift the throttle and if over 50% throttle, many boosted turbo cars still have massive power when lifting and just keep going. Unlike a n/a that slows right away when you lift. Regarding above comment, Im thinking there is very little power difference to be gained by going to a larger throttle body on a TBSS intake. My combo now is TBSS intake, 799 heads, older sloppy stage II cam, 6.0 and twin S366 turbos with my older stock truck intake cable driven 78 mm throttle body! My buddy thinks I will gain big power by going to an aftermarket larger cable driven throttle body. Im thinking very little or no power gain and not worth the at least 100 dollar cost! Thoughts here? I cant find a video addressing this. Thanks for any input Richard! We greatly appreciate all your testing and experienced advice!!!
@@BEANS-O-MATICtransmissions Is it really? I Remember it performed almost identical to the Tbss intake. Would like to see any information on that if have any.
Richard , I have an early Lq4 dbw, is there a benefit to swap to the l33 truck manifold which is I guess the dorman, type fast? I can’t fit the tbss due to my heater hoses …and hate the ugly Lq4 , the l33 looks better
Hello Sir love how you do your research. I have a Chevy Silverado 1500 still stock. I have Bolt ons. Stock intake PORTED THROTTLE BODY 80mm and AIRAID TB SPACER AIRAID TUBE JR with factor box with k&n filter MSD COIL PACKS and MSD WIRES haven't changed plugs or headers. oil catch can PEDAL COMMANDER .look at putting a power control module from jet on ECU and also jet under drive pulley and a stage 1 or2 cam don't like a lot of chop. Also looking at blower just want to go in steps. And with budget. What intake should I step up to. Any suggestions thnx
Richard if you pick any torque curve, any one and move it to the right to a higher rpm, it now makes more horsepower. If you gear both optimal. Will the higher hp curve outrun the lower hp curve. Anyone.???
I'm interested in what I can do to a bone stock LM7 5.3L engine to improve the performance without a cam swap or removing the heads, and also without putting a turbo on it? Do you have a video outlining that?
@@richardholdener1727 that's it? No bolt on items I can put on it to get more hp? Intake, 92mm throttle body, better injectors? None of them will help?
I am not sure why any video host is pointing “Up Here”? What the hell? Is this a smart tv, some satellite flying in geosynchronous orbit or some laptop thing or what. Everything I have ever seen would be links in program notes under the video. What am I missing?
Richard, I know you’re pointing to a hyperlink, it is just invisible on my screen. Is this an APP? A different version of RU-vid found on Apple or something else? I have a iPhone 6 and 5 dead laptops. After farm work, 38+ years fixing vehicle even at a dealer from 7AM - 9PM on flat rate takes a toll on fingers, elbows, and lumbar as old man arthritis comes to visit and decides not to leave. It doesn’t pay like it use to. That is why I asked. Won’t bother you again!
Steadily acquiring the parts to put my Northstar supercharger that I just bought on my new 6 l with the custom Brian tooley cam so I'm chomping at the bit waiting to see!
The dyno sheet you are claiming to compare a factory truck to holley at 8:35 is the "holley Dual Quad manifold" (a high ram dual 4 barrel TB / dual carb manifold)... as the dyno chart reads ( not the single inlet TB high ram pictured) ..which is hardly similar to a stock manifold or normal street application.
@@redlinepullers3277 it's going to be a L83 engine. They are a nice unit. All aluminum, 11.0 to 1 squeeze. Jeremy at FasterProms has done some work with them. Stock they are 355hp. All the same things that work on ls engines work here too. I think they have a more mild camshaft than the Lt1, l86, L8t bigger engines and a take out camshaft might be a cheap upgrade. the 6.2/6.6L camshaft has 7° more duration at 0.050 and 0.051 more lift on the intake. I know it's not much but you might be able to get one for almost free. The Lt2 intake from the corvette c8 needs a little work to fit but it is the best factory intake for those engines and clears the hood. The L83 intake is a weak spot even on a stock truck and the L86 6.2l truck intake is an improvement. There is very little cost difference between the L86 intake and the Lt2 intake. The factory truck exhaust manifolds are pretty good but headers are better depending if they're legal for you. The trucks have a really restricted air intake system and exhaust. A good cold air snorkel and higher flow mufflers is an idea. The 6.2l trucks have 40 less horsepower than the corvette with the same heads, camshaft and compression. The only difference is the intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, and intake and exhaust ducting. The air intake system on the trucks really keeps the drive by noise low, but the horse power low too. Good luck with your truck
Ls6 with btr cam kit long tube headers 90mm throttle body hitting the rollers in 2 weeks was gonna be hitting it with 150 shot would a manifold be worth grabbing b4 the tine that’s my question?
@@richardholdener1727 apparently it’s a ported ls2 throttle body was on car when I bought it I threw a btr cam kit on her and long tubes i just don’t no if I should throw a manifold on her it’s gonna be my street car my no prep car is completely built 5.3 from oil pan up and power glide I just don’t no for a fun street car if it would be worth getting intake manifold lol
@@b.valdez2426more but the flow number of the heads can't be matched with cathedral port. So to me it's cheaper to do oem take offs and swap it on vs ported cathedrals and then get a fast intake
@@richardholdener1727 yea I’d like to see a test with the different size runners on it. I’m hoping it reacts like the lsxr. Im pairing it with the longest runners on a 428” ls3 with big ported heads and a pretty healthy cam for a auto cross/road race/ street truck build.
@@TheDakotaThurmond similar yes but the LSXHR has 6.5, 8 and 9” runners. The Holley high ram has 6.5” runners. The only test I d seen of the fAST used the short runners.
Now what were the throttle bodys used on these manifolds? Factory ones are 77mm and im looking to get closer to 100mm. Can't find a 3 bolt 8 pin close to that even after being told there is a 92 or 95mm that is 3 bold 8 pin. If you know one PLEASE put the part number on here for me. Thanks.
I don't know what application you have, but bolting a bigger tb on a smaller 3 bolt manifold is a waste of time. But to answer your question, you need a ls3 90mm tb and the x-link to adapt the pins.
Hey there. I have a question. You've always answered in here to my surprise this is little long please bare with me. So I have a 6.0 ls big turbo car I used a btr stage 4 turbo cam. Engine is out due to broken piston. Going forged. While it's out I'm considering installing a btr stage 4 truck cam. Based only off how good they sound at idle. But keeping everything else the same (still 76mm turbo) what in your opinion I'm I going to loose by switching to the truck cam over the turbo cam. Thanks in advance
It's the same as the fitech, Holley Sniper, ebay cheap brands.. He's tested it, it makes good power but it's even further in the rpm range then the hi ram. It's a good one to get if you are turning 8k and don't care about bottom end.
It totally depends on what you want your engine to do. There's no inherent "best cam" ... there is a point where a cam can be too large or too small for an application, but there's some room to play. That "room" is where you can determine your driveability, rpm range, type of torque production, etc.. Another question that could be asked: what do you plan to do to the car in the future? Will you stop at just the cam? Or will you add heads? If you want something with good manners but an aggressive idle, 230-235 duration on the intake side would be good. 227-230 if you want something fairly mild, but will still give you a good power bump. The LSA will have an effect on idle quality and torque production as well.
@@richardholdener1727 around 600 wheel. But have some drivabilty, not looking for it to drive like stock but he able to drive it on the street. The car has PRC heads, fast 102 Nw 102 Tb, headers
I'm going to ask again, I see you drive a 02 GM truck... there's a lot of us driving OBS 98 style GM 5.7 vortec, L-31 stock EFI, CAM., BOOST....???? PLEASE 🙏
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for answering, but you can run a LS with your Holley EFI, 411 PCM swap is a simple task, 16 injection wires is 16 injection wires........, Same with rest of sensors, also most have been changed to the MPFI spider upgrade which is underated, thanks.
@@richardholdener1727 I’ve been trying to find a better intake manifold for my L9H 6.2L to go with my BTR stage 4 truck cam Been searching threw all your videos trying to find something related to the set up I have Thanks for your time Richard
Just tell us really quick what’s the best, lol..instead of all these really long great videos, pls make it easy for us DVETS, who are half blind,have PTSD, short attention spans and just want the facts Jack just the facts lol.
