18:18 Why would people consider dropping a balance druid because warlocks wouldnt need that 5% crit? The balance druid brings 3% Hit (Faerie Fire) for Range & Melee Physical DPS and utility with Battle res.
@@davidjennings5637 The difference between a pumping Warlock and a Balance Druid isn’t big enough to offset 3% physical hit, 2% tank dodge (iirc), 5% party crit and everything else a Balance Deuid brings. It just won’t, private servers got this figured out years ago...
so the sweaty setup dosnt use a surv hunter, but has 2 mages and a dedicated kitty dps this is all over the place and yeah 2 shadowpriests feeding one fire mage for the casual setup
25 man raiding doesn't have a lot of flexibility after you've filled all your buff/debuff positions and tanks, here's all the "mandatory" buffs/debuffs to bring to your balanced raid setup: - 3x Paladins to cover all the 3 Blessings buffs, typically one of each spec as their usefulness is limited outside the buffs and debuffs. - 2x Warriors to cover 2 physical groups with Battle Shout, the two Warriors will be Protection and Arms. - 1x Mage, whichever spec, to give Arcane Intellect and food/water to the raid. - 2x Priests, 1 Healer (Disc/Holy or deep Holy) and 1 Shadow Priest for mana regen and increased Shadow Damage. - 1x Warlock, Affliction spec, to debuff the boss. - 1x Hunter, Survival spec, to debuff the boss. - 5x Shamans, *TOTEMS* in all groups. Typically 1 Elemental, 1-2 Enhancement and 2-3 Restoration (one of the Shamans will be Enhance/Restoration swapping as needed in encounters). - 2x Druids, 1 Balance Druid and 1 Feral Druid. The Balance gives buffs and debuffs with massive benefits to the raid and the Feral does the same + it serves as your third tank. *TOTAL:* 2 tanks + 1 Feral flex tank, 4-5 healers (5 if you go with 1 Enhance and 3 Resto Shamans), 3-4 (4 with Feral Druid) melee DPS, 6 Ranged DPS. These are your "mandatory" picks for buffs and debuffs, it counts *17/25* raid spots and now is when you start to fill up your raid with DPS pumpers and decide if you want 2 Enhance Shamans by default or go with a bench swap system. Of the 8 remaining slots you will, very likely, want 3x Demo/Destruction Warlocks, now we're down to 5 raid spots. Of the remainign 5 slots you probably want 3x BM Hunters, now we're down to 2 raid spots. The remaining 2 raid spots is where you have your actual flexibility, first decision you have to make is on the "flex" Shaman position. Do you want 2 Enh Shamans to buff all your melee and Hunter group, where one of the Enh Shamans have Restoration offspec. Or do you go with 2 Restoration Shamans and have a healer on the bench to swap inn when needed? In my opinion you would pick the 2 Enhancement Shamans as a default and then bring inn one new healer from your last 2 open raid spots, this will either be a Restoration Druid or a Disc/Holy Priest (or deep Holy if your other healer Priest has Imp Divine Spirit talented). In my opinion a deep Holy Priest is better than a Restoration Druid in every single situation, but that's more down to opinion more than anything else. That leaves you with 1 open raid spot, later on in the expansion (BT and later) I'd say you 100% should take a Rogue with Improved Expose Armor but until that I would go with a second Mage, a second Shadow Priest or even a 4th BM Hunter. Here's a spreadsheet on your best early TBC raid setups: i.imgur.com/MgdmGxO.png
Can you elaborate how you think when you say a holy priest is better than a restodruid in every single situation? When I played BC Rdruid was only on tanks and holy priest was on raid ( CoH ) healing which made them hard to compare. With how effective lifebloom stacks are on tanks I cant imagine a priest being close to druids when it comes to tank healing.
@@jimmyandersson9938 Direct healing is just better than HoTs in my opinion, an additional Priest could also give higher uptime on Inspiration for your main tank for 30% armor buff. The "sad" fact of the matter is that Resto Druids don’t do anything that other healers can’t do, but orher healers also bring other buffs/debuffs which are stronger than what a Resto Druid brings. Resto Druids are good for helping tank healing, but a Priest could do the same and arguably better because of armor buff. Resto Druids are also good at blanket raid healing with HoTs, but with CoH and Chain Heal and Renews ticking there’s plenty of healers to do that job. And mentioned those healers also bring more tools to the raid. Resto Druid: Innervate Tree of Life (if you go that route) and Combat Ress (MotW already covered). Priest: Mass Dispell, Absorbs, better raid healing, tank armor buff. Shaman: Totems (which you could count as 4 buffs), Heroism, Ankh, Mana Tide, armor buff, interrupt (unreliable) and so on. Arguably Shamans and Priests also do more damage than Druids aswell, so I guess all of this would be my reasoning for bringing a second Priest over a Resto Druid, not that it’s anything that would hinder your raiding experiences.
@@ryangardner7709 Tree of Life aura is party wide only and it’s 25% of the Druid’s spirit, you’d mostly get this benefit on one of the tanks. You wouldn’t stack spirit but maybe it would give 200 healing bonus in Sunwell ...it’s kinda crappy. If it was a raid wide aura then you’d absolutely take the Resto Druid ...but when it isn’t? I would rather have a deep Holy Priest or Imp DS Priest.
Nice video! I was looking for one. I have a slight correction idea: you might want to switch the resto shaman in the main tank group to a encha one, for the wf/goa twist. And if a main tank is a paladin then just use the +101 spell power totem, they mostly use sp oil, so the wf totem wont affect them anyway
T5 we bringing 2 or 3 mages. Shadow priest ele and balance depending if we have 2 or 3 mages, and we absolutely shit on the warlocks DPS. T5 mages are really powerful.
Arcane mage dps scales inversely with boss length because of mana issues. Which means in progress raids with long boss fights they do really bad dps when good dps is needed and on farm raids they do good dps when good dps isn't needed anymore.
@@Lighthammer18 Eh, spam mana pots , mana gems, resto drums, have a mana tide as well, also you have evocation and invisibility takes you out of combat and you can drink on most flights
@@abaddon6579 yeah I'm not saying arcane mages will go oom after 2 minutes and go afk. But if they have to drop their stacks because of mana issues then they will lose a lot of dps. Or on fights with a lot of downtime like Vashj or KT they aren't super good. They are still really powerful don't get me wrong. It's just very dependent on the rest of the raid.
@@Lighthammer18 bro I'm playing arcane mage right now, progressing through BT, and fights like KT and Vash are fights where arcane mages Excell, I don't know with what kind of mages you've played, but I will tell you how typically it goes for me. This was like last week's raid, Lurker 4th, Morogrim 2nd, FLK 6th (usually hunters top meters here cos of multi shot and our warrior does good cos of sweeping strikes) Leo 1st, Hydros 7th( can't keep up with warlocks on this one cos don't aoe on frost phase and can't frostbolt on frost phase, mana issues cos can't invi and drink) Vash 2nd. Al'ar 3rd, VR 5th (hard to DPS cos of push back) KT 1st( just like Vash, downtime helps us a shit ton). Nazjentus 6th( hunters top this cos pushback on his single target aoe if ur unlucky and his shields means that we usually reset our stacks way too often) Supremus 2nd,(usually locks have an edge cos they can dot on kite phase and running around chasing him to DPS is harder, but I did real good last week) Akama 5th(locks have an advantage cos our aoe is awkward, can't attack all mobs, start to catch up when more mobs show up and they are more bunched up and ofc on second phase I do a shit ton of burst) Teron9th ( pain in the ass boss cos of a lot of pushback, usually hunters top) Gurtog 2nd. HKM 1st( none touches me on this one lol), Gruul 5th ( hunters top here cos of silence). Rage 6th(I fucked up this week, couldn't invi and drink) Anetheron 2nd, Kazrogal 7th( harder boss cos of his mana mechanics).Even through BT I'm still competitive even though competition is a lot more fierce since even our melee start pop up top 5 in some fights.
Also hearbeat resist on their traps paired with a MM hunter is BEASTLY. We had 3 hunters do morose back in the day by abusing the HBR on traps by letting MM trap them first and then the Surv bonus to trap length basically removing the DR from traps because it added as much as was removed with DR
You sure that isn't a pserver thing ? Plus would it make that much difference to overall raid DPS giving 1 party 4% increased damage or 2 groups 2% each. I guess it depends on who is doing the most damage which will depend on the players gear. Also some fights warriors and rogues will deal more DPS due to their high cleave damage, so might still be worth splitting up the BM hunters on some fights.
@@MetaGoblin Reason you are likely to group hunters togueter is cause of the feral crit aura. As hunters get alot of benefit from crit chance and the survival hunter is going to love that extra crit for his expose weakness and its very likely to be only 1 feral in the raid.
@@MetaGoblin the stacking isnt a privat server thing, thats how its gonna work, thats why the 3BM, 1RS and the feral tank in one grp is so good, or 4BM and 1RS on bosses you wont have a feral tank i.e.!
@@MetaGoblin I raided all through TBC as a feral tank. The reason you would stack BM Hunters in with EACH OTHER is each itteration of Ferocious Inspiration would stack with each other. You would get an effective 9% damage increase (3% x 3) if you had 3 BM hunters in one group. Complete this off with one Feral and one enhancement shaman (10% Melee AP applies to hunter pets which do 50% of their damage overall and the feral) and you have the best group.
There is not going to be a “feral and a Guardian druid” its going to be one druid that fills both roles, off tank and melee dps when needed. TBC doesn’t have four druid trees like now a day. The feral tree was dual purpose.
How do your ideal comps only have 2 paladins? And why not take IDS (~Disci) in a perfect setup for the spellpower buff? Also I think 5 healers are less than ideal for most content, especially on progress.
The comp has 3 paladins you must have focussed on a moment when I was swapping the places around and forgot to add the paladin back. You ideally always want 3 paladins for the buffs. And I did mention that you could bring a disc priest since they are especially good at supporting a protective paladin. Again please watch the video in full before commenting.
@@sebastianvm9938 you do realize I said IDS right? The bracketed disci was just a really short explanation, what I'm talking about.. And honestly I'd take the disci over not having IDS. Pain suppression really isn't all that bad in pve either. But yeah, since we were talking about ideal setup.. I was talking about IDS and that can't be picked up by the holy priest, since the ideal setup would need a CoH Priest as well, especially since there are so few healers already.
Back in TBC you had a melee with an alt priest specced into improved DS to buff the raid then log off. Can't see it being any different for TBC classic.
Great video and helpful in explaining the classes' "new" roles and uses. If I may suggest, it would be handy to layout all the different raid comps for each individual raid in TBC.
Warlocks, a handful of Shadow Priests, and a couple of Shaman. Oh and a tank or two with interrupts, and a few healers so the Warlocks can crack on with doing their job.
Do you believe Prot Paladin is able to main tank all TBC? Because I have doubst about two encounters. Kael'thas and Illidan, because in the other single target boss Feral tank will carry the group more or less easily, but those encounter require a shield. The main weakness of the Pala tank is his single target aggro even with a retry in his group...
With good gear Prot pala can tank almost anything. Once you are beyond just surviving, you can swap in spellpower gear and will eventually have the highest burst threat of all the tanks (especially against all those demons). Archimonde will need stancedance for the fear, so that's the only no no. Tanking every other boss will come down to your gear. That said, with low gear prot pala is the squishiest and will rather just be the AoE trash tank.
There’s no way retribution paladin is benched. If u do so, u lose 1 blessing (prob might/wisdom) and 2 judgments (wisdom, light) plus the +3% crit for all raid.
Fury is the trash-cleave class, when it comes to speedruns you will want to have 1 or 2 even if they aren't #1 on the bosses. That said, they can also sunder in case you play with 2 feral tanks and no prot warrior.
if you talk about retail, there is no point you are too late, as everything have catch up mechanics and it is slowly turning out, that playin like last 2 months of patch are the best way to play patch anyway if you talk about classic, then there is shittons of new players, that are preparing for tbc and prepatch, dunno about 60 raids and other things, as this seems to be much more conencted with server you choose
Heavy hybrid class raid comp. A lot of buffs with average dps. Back in the days we had 1 shadow priest in healer group, 0 kitty, 0 rets, 0 balance and 0 ele shams because their dps is not sustainable. The buffs they bring does not outweighs the pure dps like rogues / fury wars / hunter dps .
bringing 1x firemage would be waste of a spot, stacking up ignite and fire damage buffs for himself? dont think so, probably 1x mage only, arcane or early frost. also i would never raid without 3x paladin buffs, 1 from each specc is good. other than that the mixed comp looks OK. 4 tanks is not needed, a fury warrior can offtank alar with gear alone.
I am a long time TBC player, and this is plain wrong on so many levels (no offence). 1. You won't build the group support around your tanks defense 99% of the time - you will build it for dps. The most important support for a prot warri is windfury, by far. 2. Stack healers in a group with a spriest, they'll need the mana. A holy pala won't last without spriest and mana tides. 3. Affliction will only be a net gain with 8+ destros. Otherwise the lower ego dps is outweighing. Don't play Affli. 4. No need to stack warriors in a group to have both shouts - move them via addons/macros so they can shout for both melee groups. 5. If you can go without a Protwar, take two ferals for LotP n both melee groups. The Protwar brings nothing to the raid - shouts and sunder can both be done by arms/fury. 6. Same with protpala - you can just buff blessings at the door. Again, only possible with geared and skilled ferals. If you can tank the raid with just 2 ferals, it's always the best option. 7. Rogues are baggage up to very late T6. Furys are the same, but they will speed you through trash and thus give you more progress time. 8. Resto druids are gone once your tanks don't rely on ToL to survive. They bring nothing else to the raid. 9. For heal, only stack resto shamans for the aimbot chainheal. Multiple CoHs and holy palas will get in each others way and increase overheal massively (exceptions to this in SWP). 10. Don't bench the boomie - the 3% melee hit on imp FF will enable 10 melees to change their gear for more dmg. My suggestion: Gr1: Feral(Protwar) Enh Ret Arms Fury(or Combat) Gr2: Feral Enh Surv BM BM Gr3: Ele Fire Destro // 2 flex slots depending on encounter: prot pala, spriest, mage, restosh/druid Gr4: Ele Balance Destro Destro Destro Gr5: CoH RestoSh RestoSh HolyPala Spriest But as you said, you won't need to minmax to clear TBC, really any setup will work. Just think a bit about all those little buffs each specc brings. It's one of the things that make TBC the best version of WoW ever.
In a guild FILLED with Pally/Priest healers. Made the decision to go prot before tbc starts and man oh man am I excited to see what our class stack is gonna feel like.
Best of luck! Oh and hope your group is a little more spread out because token acquisition will inevitably be split amongst all your pallies and priests. You want to have as much class diversity as possible otherwise people are going to feel a little miffed when there's not enough tokens to go around. But this can be mitigated if your priests all craft the Primal Mooncloth set .
"Shadow Priests don't exist" Honestly, i think there's gonna be more than enough Shadow Priests, Classic is full of Holy Priests and unless you expect them to reroll they will undoubtedly consider switchting over to Shadow, as TBC lineup requires way fewer heal priests. Right now in Classic there is none of them ofc, as Classic barely allows you to bring a single one due to debuff slot limitation and poor damage / mediocre support potential.
From personal experience on several pservers it's been very difficult to recruit a spriest in the guilds I've been in. And when I was playing a spriest myself I even had guild leaders approaching me for recruitment instead of me approaching them 😂
@@MetaGoblin Yeah i can imagine that on a server that started off as a TBC server in the first place, Spriest probably isn't that appealing for someone who wants to DPS if you could roll a Warlock instead, as the RP is very similar. But Classic servers went through their own lifecycles and so there's more Priests available than meta demands, just as Warriors, and a lot of those Priests actually wanted to play Shadow back in the day, but found out classic won't allow them to make it work... And my personal guess would be that they rather respec than reroll.
Most people have alts they will rather take into TBC than their priest, many will reroll shaman/paladin. Plus, don’t forget that blizz is offering a level 58 boost. However, I am maining my priest as shadow into TBC as it is my only 60 and I love priests in general.
Ideal comp? All the warlocks. Excellent single target and excellent AoE. Nothing else can do both as efficiently as locks can, and they can go forever for long fights.
Best raid comp? There's two choices. You either run a hardcore guild and minmax everything or you go casual and don't really care. Either way your info about "Best" raid comp is not that great tbf. Just check the comments..
The note said that the 2 spriests will be feeding the two arcane mages in tier 5 when they get their set bonus. You won't need to feed the healers or less they really need it like I said in the video there so many different ways you can optimise the group. Can even split up the shadow priests if needed. Like I said at the end of the video do not take the places in the video as the word of God because you will have to change to groups so many times and like I said in the video don't comment before watching the video in full.
Not true. A tryhard setup with the fastest clear times will use furys for their trash cleave. Even if they sit 300 dps behind a BM on the bosses, they will make up for it and can dominate any Overall Meter.
Best raid composition. The / means Depending on boss you change role or class. Group 1 druid tank - 2 bm hunt - 1 huntsv/war tank - shaman enha /heal. Group 2 melee Druid tank - ret - arm war - rogue- shaman enha. Group 3 shaman ele /heal - shadow priest - boomkin - 2 warlocks. Group 4 shaman heal - shadow priest - 2 mages - warlock. Group 5 shaman heal - holy pal / pal tank - druid heal - coh - holy pal / druid heal
you don't put an enhancement shaman in the hunter group since Unleashed Rage only has 20 yard range as well as Windfury totem not benefitting hunters. On many encounters hunters are not gonna stand any way near the melee group.
It's fight dependent because sometimes the hunters can benefit from unleashed rage. And if you have no melee you will probably have to position hunters a little closer.
@@MetaGoblin You will have enha shaman in the group with the pala tank, ret pala and warrior tank to boost their threat anyways. Also if you are not going for total minmax then you will have a melee group anyway
@@d0k0night Well what he's showing is not even close to being "the best comp", so the title is misleading. The second he moved the resto shaman to the prot warrior "for the armor skin totem" he was debunked as never having played on a TBC server in the last 10 years.
That’s why you generally always have a Feral Druid, plus they give 5% crit to your Hunter group which is a big buff to their pets uptime on the 3% damage buff (which stacks).
There's isn't though. You will have to change the group's positions based on player skill and the tactics of every boss. There's isn't a one comp fits all.
@@MetaGoblin an ideal comp doesnt look at player skill though and you can 100% keep the same comp, 3 dps hunters 3 dps warlocks with the same healers and support classes.
I think you're prioritizing mitigation/safety way too much. Tree form/shadow priests/afflication warlocks are not needed at all. Resto druid should just stay in human form in a healer group. Shadow priest should respec holy and Affliction should respec destro.
I think these videos are very toxic to the community lol. Any videos that try to pin players into playing specific classes or to not bring certain classes is lame. The people that actually are gonna run the most ideal raid setups -- don’t need someone on RU-vid telling them how lmfao. Most people should play what they want and they can EASILY make it work in tbc.
@@andrewshandle I cleared all of TBC with a shit ton of rogues / warriors / enhance shamans (melee) but every video you see about tbc tells you warriors and rogues are useless lmfao. People don't roll dwarf priest because they didn't get to have fear ward the first time they do it because if they don't play the ugly little bastard they wont get an invite to raid because of 1000 videos like this. You must have been a bad rogue because my guild had plenty
The reason fury was not common was due to their rework not being out till Naxx. By then you are not going to dredge up 15 additional DPS warrs to gear them up so they can start raiding by the time the guild had cleared KT. This was the same reason Fury prot was not a thing and the whole WB aids was not a thing either.
Havent watched it yet, but my guess is that the best raid comp is to bring the best players you have in your guild no matter what classes they are ... with the right amount of tanks, healers and dps still ofc
Ive honestly never seen a worse TBC group setup. This is not realistic for casual or hardcore or inbetween, this shows little to no knowledgeof how tbc raids pan out.
Basically there are like 50 different ways to optimise the group to the max but in reality it won't realllly happen? I'm going to keep playing my hunter because I love it. But Basically the comp will be along the lines of this but possibly 1 or 2 fury, 1 or 2 rogues ect
I can't believe the idea that people might not bring melee DPS - this content is going to be as piss easy as Classic, what's the point in being meta slaves?
Videos like this will trigger people, everyone thinks they have the most ideal setup. I got flamed on forums because I said people used to want to bring a mage and a rogue to 5 mans, mage for great AOE and CC, rogue for mob control and the person was still somehow arguing with me.
It's actually hilarious how mad people get about this topic I've not seen a single video like this without a lot of dislikes 😂 Everyone has they're own ideal comp like you said and I even said in the there's so many different ways you can set up the group's but still people get angry.
You only need 1 to soak the eventual Warglaives. And that rogue had better be the best of the best, outperforming all the other rogues in skill, attendance, damage output/utility, and of course a person who's well-liked.
This information was taken from many different reliable sources so you're either delusional or trolling yourself. Again at the very beginning of the video I said do not take the group spots as the word of God because they can be done in so many different ways.
@@MetaGoblin After being part of leadship in private server guilds for the last 6 years, running in a world top 40 guild back in the day in TBC, I honestly do think you are trolling
Eehh i agree in some way but prot pally needs an ele sham and holy pally for spell hit and wf/woa twist for more threat plus dev aura not a retri for 2% holly dmg is nothing!!and also u need one more holy pall in heal grp for conc aura in some fights!!but as u said theres a lot of flexibility in raid comp
@@MacraDarkstar yeah correct aura is 10% and also in some fights and raids u can use all pally specs in 1grp with an ele sham and affli lock IF u want to focus on prot pally main tank!!especially when u solo tank small raids
This was hard to watch man. Obviously you never really raided in TBC and it didn't feel like you put a lot of research into this. To be fair, you were swapping around a lot to explain how different abilities work and certain classes benefit each other in a group. It didn't feel like you were going somewhere though. At no point did I see a raid comp that actually made sense and wouldn't gimp at least 2 or 3 players.
