DISCORD: / discord As a follow-up to the last tournament, I used FE Builder to make a massive tournament to test which promoted class in the gba fire emblem games is the best fighter.
Couple of thoughts: Class mini tournament - all the guys of a particular class group (e.g. bishop tournament with Elen, Saul, Lucius, etc) to find the best in class Boss tournament - could pick one game or could do all three games and then have the winning boss from each game fight each other For balance you might have to not include the special class bosses (or only do the special classes?)
Would enjoy seeing the classes use the optimized weapons and tomes available for the class like S rank weapons to see how they perform according to loadout options. The weapon access really carries classes. Mages unsurprisingly did awful but if they had their unique tomes they surely would have been more competitive. Basically competitive link arena utilizing average stats for specific characters rather than generics in a brawl across GBA games using their best options. FE8 paladins would just not equip axes if you wanted to allow it for 6 and 7 pallys. How tomes differ in each game would be a little tough to differentiate among GBA but would be cool to see FE7 Luna Canas vs FE8 Ewan etc. Swordslayer and reaver options should be included in some kits and some chars in FE8 would have 2 to 3 classes to test to make up for their smaller roster. Brave weapons etc. Would be a lot of work but if you did that you'd create an entire genre and meta and then someone would make a playable link arena sim to fight friends like in the good old days. TLDR GBA Link Arena Tournament with optimized weapons and tomes for each character to enter with branched options for those who have them to see who the GBA champion would be. The toughest part would be to implement the class and weapon changes.
Swordmaster is definitely going to start his villain arc after seeing his longtime rival Hero not only outplace him but win the overall tourney. Season two is going to be crazy.
So what you're saying is we have scientific proof that General > Great Knight > Paladin ? 10 YEAR OLD ME KNEW IT!! AMELIA GENERAL TOP TIER CONFIRMED WITH SCIENCE
In terms of Raw Combat? It's always been that way, General has better promo bonuses and stat caps than Great Knight, which has the same over Paladin. The problem that makes them get tiered in the opposite direction in Sacred Stones is a combination of it being a game with generally weak enough enemies that those higher stats don't matter too much, and that in basically all FE games Movement Is King. Just the utility of a Paladin being able to move 8 spaces compared to a General's 5, while also having access to Canto, makes up for the slightly weaker combat and lack of axes. Similarly, Great Knight is just a General with horse access and 1 more movement at the cost of being weak to the two whole horseslayer weapons in the entire game. That said, if we start talking stuff like post-game Ruins of Valni and infinitely buyable stat boosters and farmable boots, well... then Generals become pretty crazy, no doubt about that.
@McFluffles01 I always play to beat Lagdou/whatever extra challenge is in the given FE game, so I do often feel a little let down by some of the more popular classes in terms of what is considered 'good'
@@McFluffles01 you know i actually never really got cavalry to work well for me. like usually they either get too far ahead and get ganked to death or they solo everything and my other units don't get EXP, they get stopped by every forest there is and god forbid there's a map with sand on it. the one thing they do very well for me is to charge ahead and rescue vital allied units, but even that becomes obsolete once you get access to flyers.
I thought Swordmaster might win because they generally have the highest speed and good crit rates, but I was also guessing the Mage Knight since the combination of 1-2 range, a good magic type, and good speed would be enough. While the Hero winning wasn't a big shock, it *did* surprise me to learn that he beat the Swordmaster both times. Also big shoutout to Wyvern Lord for taking a full point off the Hero. WTA prevails.
"Once there was a brave Bael in Chapter 6 who was on a noble mission to fell the wickedness of a great horror known as the child. But on his quest he was unjustly slain by a demonic red haired man on a horse and a cruel pegasus enslaving woman with sickly green hair. But one day, when the ancient childrich horror descended upon a tournament with it's ear piercing screeches and all seemed lost, a Hero appeared..."
So now we can ask can Seth beat every fire emblem class? Let's see if it is really the best unit (in general it would be funny to test all the pre-promotes that are considered the strongest in their game in a normal playthrough)
I appreciate how you titled the video with "strongest" instead of "best." As you pointed out in the video, a class's utility is more than just raw power.
Honestly, the only placement that surprised me was the wyvern lord. I wasn't sure if it would've won, but I didn't think it would be so much lower than it's knight counterpart.
There's a lot more difficult competition in the Promoted classes, especially when it comes to Bow and strong Magic classes. Warriors, Rangers, the possibility of not even being able to dodge the Sniper, plus having to fight its own alternate version... Wyvern Lord was up against a roster that not only had more challengers, but ones tailored to knock it down now with better tools against its weaknesses. Honestly I'm just happy it did as well as it did. It's still a fantastic class. Glass half full mentality.
Would like to see a tournament that featured one class from all GBA games. e.g. all mercenaries against each other. Just scaled to 20 using their base + personal growths.
@@BadAtFireEmblem If you do that be sure to go off their expected stats at 20 so we can see for sure who the greatest mercenary is. Don't even need to port over the Mercenaries - only the stats matter from the standpoint of who is the best. Can even take this to its logical conclusion - All mercenaries in the series, scaled up to 20, no skills, fighting in the arena - who is the best mercenary.
My guess before watching, Hero and Paladin/Great Knight have to be pretty high. I bet the highest magic class is Sage, I’m curious to see though. Edit: see now this is why I’m not a gambler
Huh, I now know what generic assassin, rogue and wyvern knight portraits look like now. Had never seen them before. I kinda figured the wyvern knight with its pierce skill might come out on top but seeing hero at the top does not surprise me in the least. They are just THE combat foot unit.
I’m so glad to see Hero get first! I honestly am surprised about Mage Knight and General for their place in the ranking, but it was really fun to see! I hope to see you do a tournament with all the Grado Generals one day, or just all the post game FE8 Characters. I think it’d be fun to see how well each one performs with their base equipment and current stats.
Hero winning honestly surprised me. Idk why but I always seem to think General, Berserker and Sage are some of the strongest classes. Necromancer probably my favorite but its hard to test its op viability with summons and luna in a "fair" way in the tournament. Good video!
If I'm honest the amount of effort that goes into tournaments, I probably wouldn't do that much effort just to redo an old vid. This took 380 combat tests and hours upon hours of editing lol
Swordsmasters with silver swords always destroyed units in the arena, so I thought they would win, but Heros also make a lot of sense with the sheer might of axes in their favor as well as triangle type advanced
In the arena they get silver swords a lot, but your unit has iron weapons so it's a mismatch. Plus the in-game arena you only get to lose once, which is why the swordmasters are so terrifying with that crit chance 😅
There is also the fact that many of the Arena units seem to have altered stats not based on existing class caps. Notedly, they alter them based on the unit you send in, so it is entirely possible to see a Swordmaster doing 10+ damage even though your defense is maxed and their STR cap + Silver Sword should be doing scratch damage to you. Swordmasters are balanced around their lower damage, so seeing one so such high consistent damage makes them terrifying.
Sacred Stones made me love the Wyvern Lord, Druid, and Hero classes so this totally didn't surprise me. I really need to level up a Wyvern Knight and Mage Knight to see what I'm missing. Also I really wish we could see how Assassin or swordmaster would do with Killing Edge.
I like how you have justifications for the placements unlike with the base class tournament. Like yea obviously utility units like the thieves and specialized unit killers like archers and bishops aren't gonna come out on top against the super OP stuff like wyverns, it's a lot more interesting to see the performance between generalist combat units closer to the top
Especially in terms of purely generic enemies, thieves almost never attack the player, so they're never really meant to be combat threats, moreso meant to get you moving across the map
This is proof that Amelia is good in general. (Just forget about the movement speed. We don’t need it in the arena.) Despite placing third in combat performances, Wyvern Knights are still my favourite. Can’t go wrong with great combat while having 8 flying movement :D
I love my bow classes, don't get me wrong, but seeing Hero come out in 1st with Mage Knight in 2nd is such a gigantic serotonin boost as someone who loves these classes :D
I predicted sniper to win at the start cause i thought it was gonna use Link Arena rules. There, the sniper goes uncountered vs 1range enemies when attacking, but 1-2 range enemies always attack snipers at 2 range.
@@BadAtFireEmblem haha yeah probably. I’m just thinking about my lance wielders. Javelins and hand axes are so easily accessible throughout the game, and I use them quite a bit. I wonder if that would force magic users to win less and for the lance users to win more
Febuilder autolevels then to level 20 based on the classes inbuilt growth rates the same as the game would when it normally works out enemy stats in the game
Unfortunately, Brave Weapons (or Legendary Weapons) are every classes' best in slot. Only the Assassin benefits enough from wo dao to offset this because they can only win off of getting lucky with their personal.
would have liked to see every class being allowed access to more than just one silver weapon of each type they can use. like especially the sniper feels shafted in this because one of their key advantages over the ranger is being able to use longbows, which might have made a difference in some match ups against 2 range enemies, but also weapon users not being able to use their 1-2 options is a bit of a downer, especially when having ready access to these weapons is what makes axe and lance users so much stronger than sword users in most of the games. also i'd throw the ability to use items into the mix. like perhaps a suggestion for a video in the distant future: every class gets three weapons that they can use then give them one elixir each and one other item that benefits them based on what they do, like giving pure water to a general for example.
Rangers and warriors can use longbows too. I think giving ones that can 1-2 ranged weapons might be kinda fair actually, but i disagree on the items. Pure water would just shaft all mages, and healing would prolong every match.
I was expecting Swordmasters to win given how powerful they are in the Arena. But in hindsight their placement makes sense; other classes have 1-2 range or weapon triangle advantage over them and don't need to get lucky crits to score kills. Also, I'm surprised by how low the Paladin scored. Playable Paladins usually have good speed. I didn't know generics had such an underwhelming speed stat.
based on the battle shown, it seemed the valkyrie won against ranger since the AI prioritized 1 range combat, meaning no bow counter attack. did you notice that in any other classes?
if they prioritized the bow, Valkyrie would just fight at 1 range and not get counter attacked. Ranger just never gets to counter against a 1-2 range weapon
For these Every Unit videos I wonder if it would be better if the thumbnail had them split half and half since it's more like a battle royal rather than the 1 vs Everyone the unit gauntlets are. I don't know if that would look as eye catching though.
@@BadAtFireEmblem they have amazing speed so they often double and have high avoidance, 1-2 range daggers (daggers cause poison on hit), they all have a passive skill that gives them double terrain effects (so if a forest gives a unit +30 avo the thief gets +60 so they’re virtually untouchable on forts and stuff as they’re capable of having over 100 avo), and their dmg ranges from average to abnormally good as they’re capable of 1 rounding a good portion similarly leveled nontanky units. P.S. Think of poison as a DEF debuff not like real poison, so every hit they land lowers your defense and they stack.
@@mjbrownii Also daggers are just really strong. They get like +2 might with every forge which you can do like 5 times. They end up being some of the strongest 1-2 range weapons
I think you’re highly overrating them. Think they’re good on normal and ok on hard but fall off a cliff on maddening. For starters if the enemy has 0 hit on you they just won’t attack you, so using them to enemy phase doesn’t work well. Also enemies have really high stats on maddening of the low strength base of the class and low might of knives make the class deal awful damage. So what you have is a unit who can situationally have good durability but does awful damage and won’t be attacked on enemy phase anyway when they have the strong durability. Also Wolf knight is just better, it has more movement and it has cav type which is far more useful since if you have any dagger user you want they to use Lucina. The poison on her chain attacks is a nice perk but the main use is if you’re stacking avo you can use them as a bonded shield user so they won’t be targeted by the enemies and they will hit the unit who is besides them. Why being a Cav matters is because it will give bonded shield a 100% activation rate on a mage knight, which is a great class for offensive power and will let you keep them safe while they double and one round on enemy phase. Even if the enemy lives the mage knight still survives the enemy phase and heavily dents them to be cleaned up on player phase. If you’re looking for another enemy phase unit vantage wrath is just far better in nearly every way. It’s more reliable since you can add hit to the weapons you use and you’re killing enemies instead of barely denting them. You can even do it at 1-2 range with Lief at bond level 9 (don’t go above otherwise he’ll sometimes pull out the master lance) and use adaptable on a warrior to switch between a killer axe and killer bow. Anyway think Wolf knight is just better, if you’re looking for enemy phase there’s far better options, and the damage thieves do just sucks compared to alternatives like Griffin knight, Wyvern knight, Warrior, Mage knight, etc. Think you can make use of them a little early game, but after chapter 10 they fall off a cliff in term of utility and Yunaka’s stacks are also just bad compared to Zelkov’s (she only wins in res and luck at equal level and he’ll be a higher level than her when he joins unless you literally dump every enemy kill into her). Zelkov is decent, but prefers to just reclass to Warrior as it’s just a better combat class. Enemy thieves can be hard to kill since they’re hard to double with their high speed, but wolf knights are also more annoying in this regard. Daggers start strong early but don’t keep up at all once your other units start promoting and using killer, brave, and silver weapons. Even steel weapon alternatives will often do more damage, especially with the massive str difference the classes have. Also other classes can one round, so you don’t need to make the enemy take 1 more damage from all sources. Even if you don’t one round the 1 more damage isn’t going to be the difference on whether you can 2 round, unless you’re using thieves which is why you’re struggling to kill enemies. Of course if you like using them to each their own, don’t think you’re making the game easier by doing so though.
@@twigz3214 sorry I think you misunderstood. I’m talking about fighting them not using them. They’re still useful on a playthrough but encountering them can be annoying
Hell yeah, I already knew that the hero was the best class, but it's good to see my suspicion validated by this inarguable, completely conclusive study. Nobody can ever try to tell me that any other class is anywhere close to being as good as the hero without being objectively wrong, hahaha
No speed. No speed no dice. You saw this yourself in the arena - nobody really picked generals to win and the only one who did well was running a cheese build, without wary fighter to carry them generals cannot hope to be the strongest class so long as a mage knight draws a breath in their body.
Sages and magic users were locked out of their A level tomes because they slowed them down. If it they would benefit from lower tomes of course it makes sense they use lower tomes. However, the Druid shouldn't have been locket out of Luna/Nosferatu, dark magic is what defines the class. You don't lock the bow wielding warrior promo out of using bows against fliers either. In fact, the Druid and Summoner should have been allowed to use both Luna and Nosferatu and switch when they wanted to
Silencer likely didn't proc because of how low the Assassin's crit was with silver weapons. Its chance is half their crit rate in the GBA games. Sad to see it so low, but without Silencer it makes sense.
Tana and Vanessa: Hmmm should I promote into the 3rd worst combat class or the 3rd best combat class...? For real FE8 was quite unbalanced in promotion branches sometimes, Mage Knights get better combat and horses. Further notes: -From game feel I don't remember Summoner's combat being THAT much worse than Druid's... if you're using the same tomes. I have to imagine that because Thunder is actually good in a general use case and Druids get anima they absolutely destroyed them. -Using FE8 classes has its ups and downs, but especially effects classes with proc skills and crit bonuses as far as randomness is concerned. I could see rerunning this leading to general, swordmaster, serker, and wyvern knight scoring differently most of the time. Druid w/o anima and Valykrie w/ anima would be interesting too. - Obviously the one thing this doesn't account for is horse, wyvern, and armor weaknesses, although they aren't super prevalent throughout the game, but even without them funny to see a unit without weaknesses come out on top by a large margin.
The anticipation for hero was killing me, wanting not to see it until last because its my favorite, each reveal hurt me because of anticipation, yet made me releaved. But finally the sheer glee i felt when it won. Also if you make and design corrins strengths and weeknesses that of a hero. Corrin solos the game.
My only issue with the new ranking is that surely they should get more points if they win, since it's harder to win when they attack second, but that seems like a fairly minor issue. My prediction... well, last time I went with Mercenary, and Merc came 4th, but that was because I forgot about Wyvern Riders. So, this time, I'm going to go Wyvern Lord. The Wyvern Knight was also a tempting choice but I'm not sure if the chance of pierce occurring overcomes the Wyvern Lord. Edit: I should have stuck with my guns and gone with the Hero x.x Yeah, I'm not surprised by the Assassin doing so poorly. They either need a Killing Edge or Wo Dao (I think Assassins can equip the Wo Dao in FE8, since they promote from Mydridons as well?) to excel, because Assassinate is their main trump card. Without it... you just have a glorified thief. Also surprised that Berserker tied with Warrior, because most people say "Berserker is the best class and Warrior is one of the worst". And I'm surprised that the Swordmaster performed well, because usually swordmasters have a fairly low strength. And crits don't mean anything if you're dealing 0 damage.
Going second isn’t as much of a disadvantage despite what you’d expect thanks to counterattack. It depends on how many hits each unit needs to defeat the other. For example, in a situation where two units fighting each other at the same range (i.e. they can counter) take 2 hits to kill each other, the unit that goes second will win ignoring misses and crits and doubles Unit 1 goes first, attacks and is countered. Unit 2 goes second, attacks and defeats unit 1. If a unit takes an even amount of turns to defeat the enemy than is it advantageous to go second since it will defeat the enemy while being hit less times since it will be that units turn when it defeats the enemy. This isn’t taking into account crits or misses though This is actually a decent strategy to use in regular fire emblem. Baiting the enemy into attacking first if you need two turns to defeat them so you only get hit once rather than twice Now that being said, if the units don’t fight at the same range (i.e. a sword master and a sniper) then yes going first is just objectively better. And I do think in most cases going first is better, just in my opinion not by enough to justify it being 0.75. Just my take though
@@TriAzF Hm you are correct. And yes, I was mostly thinking of the sniper and swordmaster example. I guess I would edit my proposal to be to only have the 0.75 for those cases where the unit can't counterattack.
@@wattinator5306 master knight maybe most versatile. But if you count the skill system along with equipment choice, a sword master could be very dangerous with a brave sword + Astra + Luna.
No, Paladin is good for their movement, not their combat. Now if both parties had elixirs and the paladin was allowed to run and heal up between skirmishes? Then the paladin would score much higher. Higher move = you get first hit, and first hit after you regroup.
In pure combat, sure Paladin ranks pretty low… but Horse Emblem is a meme for a reason. The high mobility units are king since not many maps have things that can slow them down. One or two desert maps and maybe a few FOW maps, but their excellent ability to reposition and canto basically wins them the day. In Fe8, enemy quality is low enough that Paladins are enough. Everything higher is overkill. In Fe6-7, they got Axes, which means both Javelin and Hand Axe spam for an effective 10 threat range with good weapon triangle advantage. And… we shouldn’t forget that these are based on the generics of each class. And… well… in every GBA FE game, the top 10 are SCARY. Heros with Silver weapons are tanky, Druids usually hit like a truck and Swordmasters can fish for crits to wreck you even with weapon advantage. Bern’s Wyvern Lord spam is stuff of nightmares too. Thank god only Valter can be an enemy Wyvern Knight.
