What Makes Fox The BEST In Melee? 

2022*

@@thatmexicankid8798 1:17

@@dawidszymulewicz2747 he just doesn't remember lmao, he said "I think.." after

Cum

ur getting comboed instead of comboing, youre gonna have a baaaad toiiiime

You forget to add that getting those 70& with sheik marth falco is easy.

​@@youtubeonly520 easy? maybe if your opponent is bad. let me guess, you're a fox player or something? maybe some random salty mid-tier?

@@youtubeonly520 bro getting 70 on any char is hard

Ssf2 player valid ddd! !!!1

they're not mechanically simple, but their game plan is

Because Fox is clearly more complicated than Falcon

@@Finneagan cap

@@guyfauks2576 How is falcon more complex than fox?

He also changes his mind every couple of months lol

@@MrSlowpez10 because the game changes

in that case we’ll be seeing you at the next summit

Dawg the video came out two minutes ago 😭

@@teamxsquirtle notif gang wya

No techs by sheik

Sheik is overrated but still a great character. I don't think she is top 4 anymore. My spacies dual main friend, falcon main friend, and fox main friend all agree that Sheik is 5th at best in today's game. Sheik has to rely too much on a game plan for neutral in order to get percent as opposed to characters like Fox or Marth.

@@revelation2-9 I agree, I think sheik is overrated but still a good character. She’s just hard carried by how good she is at low and mid level melee

@@majestic95 Exactly. She smurfs at lower levels and then drops off a cliff at higher levels.

wizzrobe

@@Sapreme chill

The distorted audio is to “mute” the music in the background preventing RU-vid from claiming/taking down the video. The editor is doing it intentionally

@@windwaker5599 thats 500IQ big brain

Those are so baby that if you consider those combos then rapid jabs and utilt -> utilt are combos lmao fox has it easy because he can nair into anything and everything. It's basically his version of falco dair

@@Sapreme Doesn't matter if it's easy, a combo is a combo. They're about as easy as dair -> shine -> literally anything on Falco anyway. Nair only combos into shine at really low percents btw, it's great but not nearly as versatile as Falco dair. Fox has easier kill confirms for sure but like I said he has press his advantage state constantly to compensate for Falco hitting him harder than he does.

Tbh it’s mostly preference if your prefer to use A or the C-stick find what is most comfortable for you. Also wdym by practice intervals?

@@adamparness6627 like, how many hours is good for practise, what to practise, and is it better to do days in a row than a break, everyday, or day on day off?

@@sareaper69 I would say practice as much as you like, as long as you are having fun that’s all I need to keep me going. I recommend practicing your movement (wavedashs,wavelands, dash dancing etc.) and just getting comfortable with how the game feels. It’s difficult to articulate but the essence of it is having fun and learning one day at a time.

@@adamparness6627 I am approaching melee the same way I play and practise basketball. When you dashdance, the point is to be watching for errors or whiffs and being ready to capitalize, right? Is there a point to practising different lengths of dashdances? And is there a point in practising more advanced tech before becoming alright at the game?

@@adamparness6627 sorry for bombing you with questions

People will complain about any perceived meta in any game. As soon as things start to stagnate, people get bored. I think that’s just natural.

u do realize that fox has significantly the most player representation if u check top 100 compared to other characters?

@@the1shrubbery yes but fox doesn’t win every single tournament. People complain about fox as it is anyway, I see plenty of “another fox matchup 😴” in every tournament chat. I guarantee more people will complain if foxes win every tournament.

What happened was for a brief moment the best player didn't play fox. and Fox players just parrot the top fox player opinions which was boohoo me. Same thing happened when Hbox was winning. Fox players expect to just fox on people and when their gameplay fails "ooh it must be the MU that character is dumb"

@@cjkmelee For real some people were out saying that fox had a losing matchup vs Jiggs...

A skilled roy can beat any fox

When you play Marth against spacies you go "oh this character is basically as good as them" Then you play against Pika and Yoshi and go "nevermind". Marth has to win neutral so much against anyone he can't just gimp. Even characters like Falcon have this ability to just consistently blow him up so even that matchup becomes like a Fox Puff matchup where % is just irrelevant. When Fox fights anyone who isn't a spacie or Marth, it just feels like you outclass them in multiple ways. It's not even comparable. Sheik feels like that until she fights a spacie. You just sit there going "how is this not the best character in the game" Then you fight a spacie and it's just "oh that's why".

@@Saskaruto16 theoretically speaking Marth should destroy both Yoshi and Pikachu when played at the top level as his massive disjoint allows him to outright beat most all of their moves, when spaced correctly. Yes, he has a harder time against non fast-fallers as combos become more difficult, but when the matchup is played optimally, he should still win by a considerable margin, given his many great tools.

@@sigmundsoldier This is why Mango said Marth is hard to play at top level. I used to bash Marth mains but he really is hard to use at a high level against spacies and mid tier specialists. Fox or Marth are in contention for top 2. I think Falco is potentially 2nd but no lower than 3rd because of his skill ceiling.

@@sigmundsoldier I don't agree with that whatsoever. Your entire premise is basically Marths ranged disjoint = winning matchup That's not how matchups work in the slightest. We are not computers who can throw a perfect hitbox at the exact moment the opponent approaches within our range and can't escape. Because of unreactable burst range, most of high level Marth is predictive and using option coverage, you aren't reacting with a swing most of the time because you can't against a good player.   Now the reasons Pika likely beats or at very least goes even to Marth has to do with multiple of these elements: Pika has the unreactable burst range to force Marth to predict (basically any decent character does). Pika can't be consistently edgegaurded by Marth, and in fact is extremely good at edgegaurding Marth. Because of Pikas weight and size and up b, it's also extremely difficult for Marth to get any kind if consistent combos on Pika, and he's basically impossible to juggle because he can easily just use his multitude of recovery options to not only escape a juggle attempt but even punish Marth for trying to go for one. Pike however can use a multitude of combo starters against Marth at most %s that all flow into his edgegaurds. Even with Axe being in a bit of slump we still saw him beat Zain because Zain just couldn't get anything consistently going against Axe. It's all about practicality and consistency. Marth can do things to Pika but it requires multiple reads to really get anything and Pikas options against him do not.   Yoshi is a more curios case, because he's more about negating specific elements of Marth than he is just abusing one specific thing the way Pika does. Amsa has said multiple times he thinks Yoshi beats Marth for these reasons: Marth can't really throw combo Yoshi at all, he doesn't even really get an advantage state off of the throws in most scenarios. Marths throws being weight dependent makes it so with Yoshi being very heavy Marth just loses most of his plus frames of the throws, and Yoshi having great drift and DJC allows him to escape to platforms very easily. Not only that, aerial spacing matters in that matchup more than pretty much any other for Marth. But because of Yoshis amazing air movement which forces you to predict major elements and threat zones, he can very easily get in on Marth and win through DJC armor, as only Marths tippers can actually go through the armor. Because Yoshis DJC armor is also reductive rather than some other types of armor, it also means that even when Marths tippers do "break" the armor, they have reduced knockback and therefore hitstun. Because of how Marth works (higher startup and end lag in exchange for range) reducing the hitstun of his attacks really ruins his combo game. In most matchups Marth uses sour spots as combo tools, but in the Yoshi matchup he can't. He has to be going for tipper spacing constantly to even be safe on hit. Because of Yoshis super high weight he can also CC extremely well, and remember he also has Parry. CC in combination with his ability to escape Marths grab basically negates Marths ability to approach Yoshi effectively because his aerials won't be safe until very high % and his throws are ineffective. Parry is another thorn that hurts Marth more than others because of Marths higher average end lag giving Yoshi even larger windows and therefore more options to punish anything he parries.   So overall yeah, these matchups are not fun for Marth at all. This isn't even talking about the Falcon matchup most Marths and Falcons consider even (as I said % really doesn't matter they both just blow each other up), or the Sheik matchup which has generally swung back to being considered losing but some still consider even. Marth just does not have the matchup spread of the spacies or Sheik. He doesn't lose to the spacies unlike Sheik, and he is likely even with Puff with Sheik doesn't have either. That's why he's generally ranked higher. But he doesn't run over everyone below the top tiers the way the spacies and Sheik can. People used to think he lost to Ganon back in the day because negating his grabs and CCing him really hurt his gameplan by themselves let alone having stuff you can actually do to him. It only became winning for Marth when it was figured out that Ganon really doesn't have the movement or whiff punishment to ever get the lead on Marth to force him to approach a lot and can't really do anything if he spaces well, so they reach kind of an impass where neither can really approach but Marths pokes are better because they are disjointed so eventually he should get a better opener than Ganon and win. In PM where Ganon can move much better and has a better jumpsquat, it's actually considered losing for Marth again because Ganon can now effectively approach Marth while Marth can't just poke until he finally gets an opening, he has to commit to down airs to get anything going (Marths down air was buffed in PM to help him deal with CC). Range ≠ winning matchup. Matchups especially in a game as deep as Melee are incredibly nuanced and involve how much you can force an effective gameplan against your opponent while trying to negate their gameplan as much as possible.

Doesnt that just prove he is the best character to have as a secondary?

All of Melee's top players rose to prominence without Fox & half of them never even really secondaried Fox. So yeah... him being the best character is debatable. Marth has a better shot at the title based on results.

And that is DESPITE Fox being the most played character by far. Not only is there no evidence that Fox is the best on a human level; there's quite a lot of very very convicing argument that that is not the case.

was mango not the best with fox for a period?

@@WhoPlaysMc He was lol, he won back to back Evo's with Fox. M2K also played Fox BEFORE Marth, and still did after he picked up Marth. Armada picked up Fox as well. And I love how Leffen is not even mentioned. Now we have Cody literally beating everyone with Fox.

Whatever wins

mid tiers deserve to be camped

mids are a disgrace

@@swank8508 who hurt you?

@@milesd0texe385 Profile picture checks out lmao

Dude everyone has techskill now. You can run into dozens of random foxes on slippi on any given night that can shield drop, ledgedash, waveshine, etc perfectly, but still get blown up because they don't have fundamentals to hit you or DI out of combos. They just do the same approach every time and hold in while getting comboed.

@@Sapreme yeah but tech skill is still hard

just because a character has alot of tech skill doesn't necessarily make it hard

@@Gobblesthepatient when it's optimal to do all that tech skill then yes it is

@@mlalbaitero what about positioning? Decision making? Matchup knowledge? Tech skill mastery is just one facet of many

ask me how I know you get thrown and shine spiked near the ledge

Personally I think its easier to win with Fox than with the other top tiers

Those you mentioned aren't even tournament viable if you're trying to win, so they're not even in the discussion.

That's literally not true tho. Just looked at the smash wiki and he's tied with Marth. It's not even updated with Cody's recent Summit win.

@@bigredog100 You are dishonest and wrong about this.