To be fair. This could have happened with any manufacturer. It’s not impossible that the trains transitioning to the old intimin track could be causing the problem on the trains. If that’s the case then yes they probably should have just replaced the entire track. Who knows. As a season pass holder it’s ok to me that this ride isn’t open. I really was only hoping it would be open to ease some of the lines at the other rides, since I was able to ride it during pass preview night. I do want to make sure they get it right. I do wish CP was a little more transparent with what was going on. I think giving more updates would also put more people’s minds at ease. Who knows though. My original prediction for when it would open again would be around July 4th but now I have a feeling it might not be until 2025…
@@mdenholm15 I don't see Intamin having the same issues as Zamperla. Merely for the fact that they knew they weren't taking the job unless tracks and trains are being replaced. They built it originally knowing that this would be inevitable in maintaining operations.
@@ChampaBayBeast yeah it’s hard to say. As more inspections happen on the track I am curious to know if they feel the track is causing part of the issue.
Six Flags Great Adventure and Six Flags Over Georgia have both officially postponed their 2024 additions to 2025....Georgia Surfer, the world's first INTAMIN Ultra Surf! Both rides have had their trackwork completed, but neither have completed stations, electrical work, or trains on the track.
I’m personally not mad at Zamperla. I applaud them for taking a leap of faith. You have to start and take risks somewhere in order to be successful. I mean let’s not act like Intamin coasters were not all maintenance nightmares for parks for decades before as of recent the new generation coasters are much better and more reliable. Zamperla took the risk and now they are learning from it and hopefully going forward will continue to build on the mistakes made here and be successful
Screw zamperla. They were a successful company before tt2. Cedar point wanted to fix the ride with a new manufacturer. They ruined Top Thrill fkn Dragster with their big leap. They lied to Cedar point to get the job. Then they concealed the fact that their project wasn't viable during the build all the way through. They put lives at risk, ruined the 2nd tallest roller coaster in the world and destroyed cedar point's reputation. tried to cover up their mistake
Right! People seem to forget that Intamin burned a ton of bridges with a lot of parks and chains. They built a crappy boring log flume that almost drowned 10 people, multiple launch coasters that had the cable blew up and threw shards of steel in riders faces, multiple head line coasters missing their opening debut dates, modifications and reprofiles after the first season, poor reliability, difficulty getting necessary parts for repairs and a total A hole of a representative for North America that was difficult to work with.
@@chadmorris946 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏💪👍👍 that's what I'm saying, and people think "oh you just hate Intamin" .... Not at all, I love their rides, but let's give credit where it's due, they aren't the most reliable in the world.
Six Flags Great Adventure and Six Flags Over Georgia have both officially postponed their 2024 additions to 2025....Georgia Surfer, the world's first INTAMIN Ultra Surf! Both rides have had their trackwork completed, but neither have completed stations, electrical work, or trains on the track.
The UV inspection is to detect surface cracks and flaws in the metal using dye, this is called fluorescent penetrant inspection (FPI). I can only assume, as others have, is that the new ride vehicles have caused unexpected wear and vibrations on the old track leading to damage. This is why they are marking out sizes on the steel. I am almost certain they will be replacing track. TT2 will not reopen this season if so.
That UV light is actually a 3D scanner. They’re scanning the track, modeling it. I do NDT for a living (35 years). It’s unlikely they’d use fluorescent PT/Dye on pained carbon steel track, they’d probably use fluorescent MT/Magnetic particle testing, although they could use either, MT is more appropriate . Regardless, that isn’t an NDT UV light I’ve ever seen, or could find on line, but it does match a 3D scanner head when using Google lens and the added word “scanner”.
I am not familliar with the testing equipment they are using but 3d modeling does make the most sense as the markings they are putting on the track are definetly measurements and and the random number above looks to be a part number for that particular piece they have modeled. Those modeled parts will be used as profiles when they get back to their fabrication shop to accurately make a matching piece that will just bolt and / or weld right into place.
In my opinion this was a stupid decision on CP’s part. You can’t blame Zamperla for shooting for the moon but Zamperla has some blame in this also. I think the lighting trains should have been used prior on a 100% operated Zamperla coaster first. Meaning these prototype trains should have never been used on a coaster of this magnitude with track from Intamin, track from Zamperla new LSM’s hodgepodge coaster. It’s a recipe for disaster as you can see for yourself. CP went cheap and the old saying goes “you get what you pay for”. Not saying the ride can’t be salvaged, but who wants to salvage a ride that was just rebuilt! Why do we even have to do that? Anyway, hopefully CP learned a lesson with this and makes better decisions moving forward. Not sure for the future of Zamperla in its roller coaster department. They definitely bit off more than they can chew. Really depends how they rebound from this but I can almost guarantee you at this point no one is beating down the door to work with them.
My question is did Zamperla take into consideration that the original top hat section needed to be a big engineering and design factor or assuming the old track will just work?? Assuming on something very critical can end up in a big fail.
I think you're right. People are saying it looks like they are inspecting it prior to the the state inspection which is a small possibility(I hope this is the case too) but it could very well be that they noticed another issue. I just hope they update us soon. It just makes me think did they even look at this ride at all? The fact that they are finding so many issues now rather than the testing phase prior to opening.
I don’t see this reopening this year now if there’s an issue with the old track, I think it’s in Cedar Point. Best interest just replace all the old track on the top hat with new track and reopen it next year.
Wouldn’t it be a shock if it turns out that there was nothing wrong with Zamperla’s Lightning trains? But the real problem is that the original Intamin track on the Top Hat has micro fractures that have damaged the new Zamperla trains!!!??? 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 If this is true m, then Cedar Point is 100 percent to blame for the failure and downtime. 😮
Cedar point is to blame for going with zamperla In the first place. But What reputable company doing a rebuild doesn’t do a thorough inspection of the existing structure to see what’s in good condition and what isn’t??
Exactly. When companies were bidding on the rollercoaster, keeping the old track should have never been negotiable on Cedar Points behalf. Cutting costs by cutting corners usually backfires 🔥
Disagree it was a design issue. Zamperla couldn't retrofit the ride correct. Maybe CF fault for not just going to Intamin first and figuring out their proposal.
I don’t think it had micro fractures the reason I think this is because the ride had just been inspected after a major accident and they found that the accident was a freak event if I recall correctly. They would check for micro fractures. Now it is possible the new Zamperla trains but stresses on the track it was never meant to handle or the intamin track put stresses on the trains they weren’t built to handle. Heck both could be true at the same time. Or the third option is they are checking to make sure nothing is wrong as better to do this now when there’s been issues and the ride is down than once the ride reopens. Or maybe the state is making them check before reopening. Who knows.
I’m guessing that going with Zamperla was a big mistake. Should’ve gone with Intamin since they would have known the problem first hand cuz they were the ones who designed it if the track was the main problem other than the trains
Being as positive as I can I think they are just checking the track getting it ready to reopen the ride just making sure so that way when they announce it they don’t have any more issues this season then in the off season some money will be spent on this and I hope we still get a few flat rides cp needs a few new ones
You are wrong the new trains have caused damage to the old track if thats the case the track will all have to be replaced dont expect TT2 to be open till next year!
The issue is SUPER serious and bigger than CF/Six Flags originally said it was. If they could run the ride and fix the issue at night. They would but they can’t. CF knows damn well playing it cheap and not letting INTAMIN reimagine their own monster, costed the company dearly
@@ifensler because no other coaster manufacturer in the business has more expertise in building coasters that are 400ft or Taller than INTAMIN. They built that coaster for CF over 20 years ago and still till this very day. No other coaster manufacturer is better suited to reimagine a ride standing 30 stories tall and going 100mph PLUS
I think it’s done for the rest of the year. They really could have removed most of the original track and extended it to be a much bigger coaster with a lot more elements.
They certainly did sufficient calculations concerning the old track being subjected to forces from new trains with a higher center of gravity! Right?! RIGHT?!
The Zamperla lightning trains are much lighter than the original Intamin trains, so if anything the lightning trains are better for the track than the original trains. What's going on with the track is most likely an issue of the rides age + the weight of the old trains (train weight is what causes more stress to track, not the center of gravity, center of Gravity only effects riders). I think blame for what's going on with the old track should be placed on whoever inspected it (possibly Zamperla, possibly Cedar Point, no one except them knows), it isn't an issue with the trains though.
@@namevone I know this. But since TTD's dynamics were calculated by Werner Stengel, it´s safe to say that track, supports and rolling stock was designed and calculated for millions of load units. within a guaranteed time-frame and within a set protocol of maintenance. I just can´t believe that the state of the existing track hasn´t been thoroughly checked and x-rayed, before the ride was turned into a new/hybrid attraction. I also can´t believe that there was no consideration that a "roll back" is now not an occasional anomaly, but a part of each ride-cycle. Whatever is happening (or not happening), it seems to be a culmination of problems that pile on each other. I just can´t believe that it`s all somehow happening by oversight and incompetence.
@@stellaVista yeah, I'm guessing that all this comes down more to Cedar Fair's maintenance over the original dragsters life. Just thinking about what happened to Fury last year, they probably haven't inspected Dragster as much/as well as they should have. I still can't imagine that the TT2 conversion would've caused any major issues to the track though. It only ran with people for a week, and with dummies for a couple months. I can't at all imagine that it cycled enough to cause any track issues like this (unless the track was on it's last legs regardless of the conversion).
I doubt it. It just means major players won't be going to them for big projects. Pissing off Cedar Fair/Six Flags is a huge blow since they now own a lot of parks. Their's business will be hit.
It is not, for one they are the market lead of flat rides and for 2 if there is any issues with the track, unless it is the new track they installed it’s not there fault. Any new rides have there bugs and quirks that need fixed.
Hey Brandon! I took a poll on the Facebook page cedar point uncensored. “When will top thrill 2 open?” 312 votes said it’s closed for the season “78%” of The poll. Some even voted closed permanently. Some said 2026. It’s definitely closed for the season. But the public definitely has spoken!
Cedar Point should call intimimin and have them evaluate the track and wouldn’t it be so nice if we could just have everybody work together to get this ride up and running.
As a random dude on the internet that has seen enough from internal sources first hand. Yes Cedar Point regrets the project. Yes Zamperla is in over their head and they're not entirely in the driver seat anymore either on the project. Cedar Point has had to bring in outside parties to help with these problems and identify the issues they missed. There is a strong possibility the track will need to be replaced on the launch but I am not confident enough to confirm that yet. I can confirm they were contracting companies to make that assessment that are not Zamperla and I've seen these requests first hand. I would not be surprised if a lawsuit is somewhere in the future of this story because we all know that Cedar Point is not not going to just eat the entire project but it's very embarrasing for them after what an already horrific news cycle.
Interesting . Frankly, if I was in charge of CP I’d cut the losses and tear the whole thing down. Better for long term. TT2 was a mistake even as an idea . A symptom of trying to please everyone and being afraid of change.
The trains had a pretty violent shake it looked like from videos I saw when the trains were launching wouldn’t be shocked if the track had some bad wear marks that needed patching.
Or just scrap everything. I don't know why they re-did an entire ride because of one person. Others died on coasters and those coasters didn't get modified.
Giga and strata coasters experience an incredible amount of mechanical stress. I’m thankful that Cedar Fair is taking inspections this seriously, even if there is a negative financial impact. Extreme thrills are only fun if they’re also safe.
Don't think you would scratch numbers into new paint unless you plan on replacing it. Why not just use some type of removable marker, chalk, or paint. This ride will be down for the rest of the season imo. Sucks because I will be there in 3 weeks. Coming all the way from Florida. Booked the trip back in April with the hopes of riding TT2. Still going because they have an incredible lineup. But I'm definitely disappointed and frustrated with the lack of communication from the park.
I'm glad they went with Zamperla. At least no one was hurt or injured, and that's way more than could be said about Intamin's growing pains over the years. Considering the leap and not baby steps being taken, and the fact the old intamin structure and track is clearly playing a part in the problem, albeit likely less than the trains, I applaud the dedication to resolving Kinzel's biggest mistake. Then again, I rode it 12 times and I see the potential once they resolve the reverberations of problems stemming from the trains beating up old intamin shimmy track. Safety is clearly paramount and I'll take this over the risks associated with intamin's history of injury or death when doing something on a scale that provides no accurate set of reference points, and even so, being associated with so many incidents due to operator error.
Right now I bet they regret redoing TTD to TT2 even more than getting the original Top Thrill Dragster. As someone who laments the loss of the OG and its launch, I'm not complaining. Curse of the Original Dragster's ghost. I wish they'd get a mack water coaster. That could use an elevator lift so it could be record breaking while not taking up too much space. Overall, I want them to bring their coaster count to at least tie Canada's Wonderland for 2nd if not higher (Get to Six Flags Magic Mountain's record)
My guess is it wont reopen this year, if they are looking at the original track then they must be in a discussion about how much that has affected the issues with the trains.
This is starting to sound an awful lot like the issues that plagued the original The Bat rollercoaster at Kings Island, which was plagued by prolonged down time due to issues with the trains and the track supports.
These new videos of track and support inspections do not bode well for the situation. I was there last weekend and while getting water at one of the shops, the young employee said that the trains were being 'redone'. Maybe she was bragging to sound like she knew more than she did, but she said that after I'd said I knew what was published on the website. In other words, she was basically affirming what it says and hinting that it's more than just minor reconfiguration of the trains. But, think about this: If the original Lightning Trains not only had bad wheels, but also were (let's say) too tall, causing track and support damage when fully loaded with real human weight...it might no longer just be 'Internet hazing' that CP might have to scrap this whole thing (or rebuild a significant portion of it). They 'went cheap' by retrofitting a radically new train design onto half the ride which was using 20 year old track and supports designed for a much lower train center-of-gravity tolerance. This is not reopening in 2024. It might be optimistic to say it'll open at the beginning of 2025.
I feel it’s a combination of the original track and the new trains having a higher center of gravity. I feel the new trains are degrading the new track because of its age and with the old track degradation it’s causing damage to the trains. I feel hade the replaced and redid the track to Mach the new trains center of gravity this wouldn’t have been an issue. So I feel they may re-track the top hat in the off season. And if Cedar Point made the decision to not replace to top hat track regardless of manufacture then you can’t place the entire blame on Zamperla.
Those are measurements I would think those are indications of something being found by an ndt inspector most likely it's an indication of cracks or wear in the track and their mapping out how much is damaged and where it stops or starts
Trying to be positive here as well, but this whole thing has been fumbled by Cedar Point. I just feel like CP has slipped in quality in recent years. It's a shame, especially being an Ohioan, but with how much they charge and upcharge and then charge again, I expect better. I went to Holiday World last week, and it was a breath of fresh air. No charge for parking, one price for both their main park and their water park, no Fastlane extra charges, and then on top of it, absolutely NO charge for water, soft drinks, or Gatorade. Just go up to the refreshment stations, grab a cup, and make your selection without having to pay in excess of $5 a drink. Somehow, Holiday World makes it work. And while they are smaller than CP, with only 5 coasters, all five coasters were open all day, including 3 excellent wooden coasters and 2 very good metal coasters. No rides were down at all that I saw. It was a much more pleasant experience than CP has devolved into.
I’m wondering if it is the trains. Are the Zamperla trains heavier? Plus now, you not only have the train going up the tophat, but stopping on it, and reversing, plus a second launch. That could be shaking the tower in unexpected ways.
I think all they have to do is replace the old track with a new track and it should be hopefully all set for next year. I was just there yesterday looking forward to riding it, but I want it to be safe for everyone.
I'm far from an engineer, but I'm really curious why they wouldn't had thought to replace the original tracks in the beginning, since the ride had been closed, especially when the ride is 20 years old.
Money. That's the answer to every "why didn't they...?" Question you have about any company. It was cheaper to not replace the track so they didn't replace it. Very simple.
I don’t understand the track issue… There are coasters like millennium force and Raptor that are much older coasters and as far I know, haven’t had to replace any of their track.
And those rides run exactly the same, with the same cars and tolerances as when they first opened (and/or were perfected after opening). They haven't been retrofitted with entirely different trains, and forced to withstand a slingshot, see-saw motion they were never originally designed to withstand.
I kinda agree, I think they have to replace the rest of the track.... I really didn't understand the not replacing all of it anyway. NOPE THE EXTREME SPINNER NEEDS TO GO TO KINGS ISLAND...
The pictures look like a track piece scratched with an identifying number, with the dimension measurements on the bottom. Possibly to replace that section of track. Earliest open is most likely 2025. 😮
I think that those markings on the supports are to replace the old pieces of Intamin track with new ones. Even so, I'm hoping that Top Thrill 2 will finally reopen by mid-August, or worst-case scenario, 2025...
Sounds to me like Intamin's heavy trains rolled smoothly over the increasingly rough track but Zamperla's lighter trains feel every bump. It's like a Honda Fit on a rough road compared to a Hummer.
Six Flags Great Adventure and Six Flags Over Georgia have both officially postponed their 2024 additions to 2025....Georgia Surfer, the world's first INTAMIN Ultra Surf! Both rides have had their trackwork completed, but neither have completed stations, electrical work, or trains on the track.
It's obvious they are looking for micro fractures and any damage on the tracks. We don't know why, so there is no point speculating ridiculous stuff. What would make most sense to me since the wheels and such look to be the issue, that they are inspecting the tracks real good to make sure no damage or micro fractures were done by the new trains wheels. I would also assume for the next couple of years that this ride will under go a lot of maintenance and checks. Potentially more issues as well.
Last Friday I visited Playland in Vancouver my home amusement park, (not theme park, which here are themed to nature and feature not even one flat rides let alone roller coasters) for the 1st time on over 2 years and found Thundervolt surprisingly good, considering it's short height, length and duration. It's better than Rita (an Intamin accelerator coaster w a hydraulic launch) if not other Intamin accelerator coasters I've ridden that also feature a hydraulic launch. It did go down that day, but although the ops think it's "pesky' that way: it operates better than TT2. I also found it better than "Coaster" in the same park, since Coaster now features a violently retracting seatbelt for each rider which ruins most of the ride and is even worse for the ops than they are for the ride, which is saying a lot considering it only features one train ops for the busiest of days (since they don't even have a 2nd operational train anymore, let alone a third). To add insult to injury: "coaster" is rougher than I ever remember it being. Just to be sure I want to ask: is there any other Intamin cum Zamperla coasters (any coaster that 1st opened as an Intamin and later got refurbished by Zamperala) ever manufactured that aren't either TT2 or Thundervolt? So far I think they're the only two. I could be wrong about that, so If I am: please tell me. Thanks for posting!
7:05 I disagree, I think the plan was and is still a waterpark addition only. I DO think they'll market TT2 as a new ride again especially if it doesn't open this year.
Actually you made a good point I think it was suggested before I think something was going on where they should have changed all that track and like you made a good point we were looking at the train in the first place and then you also got to look at again and also again they was testing this ride since last year why didn't they just change the entire whole track in the first place now this is a problem
This obviously isn't the case, but it would be kind of funny if all the markings on the supports are a teasing campaign for Cedar Point for next year that no one gets (once again, obviously not the actual case)
They really should have gone with Intamin again over Zamperla, but they cut corners and did a deal with Zamperla and now we're going to be looking at a shut down Top Thrill 2 for quite a while yet.
Eh. They'll get it fixed, replace the rest of the track if they need to, and after it's open again nobody will care about any of this, any more than anyone now cares about the botched openings of Maverick or Steel Vengeance. Meanwhile I've been there five times since it shut down and it's been packed each time, so I highly doubt any of the histrionics about Cedar Point being haunted by this forever are much of anything. They could rip the whole thing out today, replace it with nothing at all, and it would still be an elite park that's perpetually full of people spending loads of cash. They'll be fine.
I wasn't offended that it took so long for everybody involved to get this machine running, and I wasn't offended by the choice of Zamperla. After all, a lot of Intamin alumni now work there. Finally, I won't be offended by how long it takes to get all the bugs worked out. I just want a fun, thrilling, safe and reliable coaster and I trust them to do the job.
For those commenting on steel track lasting 50 years, why is Magnum XL200 so much rougher now than when it opened? Taller, faster means increased wear and tear on all the components with the exception of magnetic (non-contact) brakes. Dick Kinzel admits Top Thrill Dragster was his biggest mistake. Shoot The Rapids II was also a disaster. Common thread? Intamin.
if it takes to a 2025 to make it right and make it safe ....I'll take it..... I'd rather have a safe ride and wait..... then have something that's going to break down .. I'm hopeful Cedar Point we'll figure it out and make it right
More than likely had to do a structural analysis on the entire ride to get a green light. I would imagine that the markings are just to indicate that the track segments have been inspected.
Same here, but me N my buddy got a 2nd ride on it as couple in front of us gave us there tickets to ride N just was blown away how amazing it was and the speed, rode in row 9 both times, Blue and Black train rode in, as didn't feel what people were sayin bout the silver train. Just really really hope they can fix this coaster
I am thinking the 2025 addition will be a water park. There's no reason for them to cancel any plans for 2025 tbh. If it is already in the capital expenditures reports, you might as well build it. There's no valid reason to push it back.
How much of the cost comes from Cedar Fair versus Zamperla? I imagine if this was a Zamperla error they would have more of the cost to eat. I think they know they need to still do things to the park and they have been prepping for a while now. I imagine we will see a waterpark overhaul, the area by the marina connecting to celebration stage (maybe all the way to millennium), and then the island. Plus the corkscrew area as well is needing some love. They have a lot of potential and area to do so much with.
Possible conspiracy theory : They got it done enough so it would run for one week and so everyone would plan trips and buy season passes knowing that it would only make it a week before more work needed to be done but so they could get maximum revenue for the season - not sure if this theory is accurate or false
I love CP and been going there since 1994 but its about time to hold CP and CF accountable and responsible for there roles in these decisions and strained relationships
I have a real hard time believing that they don’t have enough information to disclose to the public. There’s big problems. Not a good look for Six Flags /Cedar Fair with this total flop in their first season.
The next update will be in October 2024 where they will finally say Top Thrill 2 will be closed for the season well duh is what I will say when that happens
Steel Track lasts long time there are plenty of steel rides 50 years old and still in good condition. Highly doubtful anything is wrong with the superior Intamin mega coaster track.
Heres what shoulda happened, Cedar Point should have waited to open the ride till the middle of summer before officially opening the ride in may. This is a major coaster on their hands. Instead of rushing the opening for opening day, they should have had delayed the opening...
This is not Zamperla fault. A 20-year-old roller coaster track needs to be repaired and taken down a new restructured. The top hat track especially . Bad voodoo with the accident. In my opinion, I have something brand new. New spirits! They just had so much bad luck with that coaster..
Replacing the track in the 1st place defeats the purpose of reimagining the ride. . If it wasn't gonna be fixing ttd, or reimagining ttd, it would've been removing the ride altogether. I think they should've just got new trains for ttd and we could be talking about that 500 ft ride they teased the winter before 2020.
I feel like it wouldnt be nearly as bad if Cedar Point was more transparent about what's going on. And stop with the ads and merchandise until it's ready. In 5 years nobody will care about this. But CP and Zamperla will look kinda dumb until it's open
The marks are apart of inspection like ID the details of the code idk but I did non destruction testing they won't open that ride I always wait to ride new stuff lol 😆
This is a Son of Beast sized mistake - but at least KI got a few seasons out of it. But let’s face it, TH1 was often closed as much as it was open. Like you said, high winds, rain, whatever and it was closed all day. My guess is the 10 or so times we went the 5 years before it closed, TH1 was closed more than 3/4 of the time. And I can only imagine what the line is like now considering it’s an even longer ride than the original. Disastrous for CP.
They’ve missed the bulk of their primary operating season at this point. We’re into August now and OH schools will be ramping back up in weeks. What a disaster of a project it’s not even overstatement when you measure how long this has been down in it’s so called grand reopening season
