4:44 CLARIFICATION: Hornet isn't a void being like the Hollow Knight or the other vessels. She does share a father with them, the Pale King, making her a half-sibling. But her creation didn't have anything to do with the Void. This was a mistake on my part. You can find a video on my channel going more in-depth on why Hornet likely isn't made of Void.
Davide Notaro I didn't but I regret saving him cause I can't figure out how to save him the second time so I just have to listen to him yelling over and over when I'm in the area
@sempre que vc falar foda-se eu estarei lá Don't save him from the Vengefly King that's munching on him in Greenpath when you see him for the first time. I forget what triggers it, but if you come back a significant amount of time later, all you find is his cracked mask laying on the ground. There's actually an achievement in the game for doing this.
"Hornet doesn't have a mouth yet she can talk" Grimm has no visible mouth yet when you interrupt his bow he scream at you with his mouth wide open. Suggesting that bugs that appear to have no mouth do have one.
pretty sure grim is also a special case in the sense that he is some sort of higher being that has something to do with "nightmares" which is half of the dream that was split somehow.
They are all bugs, some bugs are just.. godly. (Radiance a god moth, king.. whatever the hell he is, a long ass worm in the form of tiny bug, The Mushroom, is a mushroom.. so.. not all are bugs, but being a god, does not stop one from being some species)
Y’know, I always thought that Zote was the son of the Lord Fool. It really doesn’t have much evidence but the fact that his dream nail dialogue in the arena fight says something along the lines of “Will this be enough, father?” just made me think he was referring to the Lord Fools corpse. His obsession with glory also fits into this, and it could provide a reason why he came to the coliseum beyond getting more glory. It’s really more of a headcanon than a theory, but I felt it was worth sharing.
Maybe the Lord Fool was trying to imitate the pale king? Make a big worm creature, sit on a throne inside it, create small children with white shells and dark cloaks.
Wait, I just realized this just now. Maybe the reason why Quirrel forgot about every thing wasn't leaving hallownest but maybe it is just because of Monomon's Mask. Mask Maker - "To change a face; to conceal it fully within another... A powerful protection that is, but one with sad consequence. The original mind is destroyed, though those of striking will may still retain a sliver of that concealed self." Wearing the mask "destroyed" Quirrel's mind but fragments remained. When Monomon called him back to Hallownest, those fragments became to form again.
I never made this connection! I never thought that Quirrel was "concealing" his face with Monomon's mask, since he wears it on the top of his head. I only ever saw the mask as something that Quirrel held on to to protect Monomon. So it never occurred to me that it could be messing with his mind. Very interesting explanation for sure.
I was only able to make the connection because you showed us that Quirrel comic again. When the Plot Armor Mask (nice joke btw) protected him from Hornet, I remembered the Mask Maker's dialogue about a "powerful protection" and some shit. So I decided the re-read his vague ass dialogue again.
Quirrel was Monomon's assistant. Monomon chose to help the Pale King place a seal on the Radiance by becoming a Dreamer. Monomon had an additional seal of binding placed on her to protect her while she slept. The mask that Quirrel wears is what is used to break the seal.
I know this is an older video but I couldn't help myself with sharing my own personal theory about this!! So I believe that Zote is actually the Pale King and White Queen's son. Like their legitimate, not-filled-with-void son, similar to how Hornet was *ahem* made. It would explain the nursery in the White Palace better than it belonging to the Vessel or it belonging to Hornet, let me explain. The Vessel was able to climb up out of the Abyss moments after it's birth, dodging spikes, wall climbing, and jumping from platform to platform, similar to our own Knight does when we go to get the Void Heart. And as we hang off the precipice of the ledge to our freedom, we can see in very plain view that the Vessel is our size, and perfectly mobile. So why would the Pale King create a nursery for a child when the Vessel comes grown enough for them to pass as an adult bug? You might think, "Oh it must be for Hornet then!" But it's not!! Hornet has a room in the Weaver's Den, and was canonically raised in the Deepnest until she was fully grown. The Midwife further confirms this by wishing that she would visit, if even for a while. So whose nursery could this be? There has been no other reference to somebody else in the King and Queen's lives that could have occupied this space. No mention of a Princess or Prince,,,, wait a second. Zote is (although jokingly) also known as Grey /Prince/ Zote. And Team Cherry doesn't take names lightly, each Boss is chosen to represent something in the lore (yes even GMC) as we have False Knight (whom is a false representation to the knight whose armor it is), Dung Defender, The Hollow Knight, Hive Knight, etc etc etc. So why wouldn't Grey Prince Zote also have something to do with the lore? What I believe, is that Zote was the original Prince of Hallownest. And that when his father saw it fit to give Herrah his child in trade of becoming one of the Dreamer's, Zote saw his father's true colours. That the king would do anything, including bringing a child in the world and abandoning it, to save a kingdom that he believe he salvaged. And Zote became so furious with him for that exact reason, that he left Hallownest. And because he was a Prince, he never felt the need to learn fighting/survival as he had the five great Knights to protect him his entire life, so he had to try and learn everything himself. It would really fit the storyline, explain Zote's issues with fighting and talking and,,, everything else, and go on to explain the similarities of the Vessels and Zote himself, because they have the exact same parents. Idk maybe I'm crazy, but feel free to comment on what you think about my dumb lil theory below
Nice theory. But I think that zote is from the outside world. I think that zote was a weak bug outside of hallownest, who later came to hallownest. It's shown that vessels have left the abyss several times, considering all the vessel corpses and some may have even left hallownest like our little ghost. Maybe zote met one of these vessels outside of hallownest, a vessel that wasn't exactly hollow, so maybe they start interacting (talking maybe), zote sees how strong the vessel is and learns about hallownest and the infection. But the vessel dies after which zote makes the promise he mentions(which is probably to end the infection) and zote wanted to become like the vessel so he dresses up in a similar way, which is probably why the colour of zote's cloak is slightly off. I don't know. To me, this theory makes for a better story so yeah....
There are two interesting Zote's precepts (i dont remember the numbers, srry): -Dont remember the past, it s harmful - Only try if u r gonna achieve it. First explain why zote never talk about his past, but adding that "its harmful" could be a reference to his daddy issues. Second, i read it as "Pale king, you should know you are gonna lose. So why are u taking this too far?". There s other dialogue of another character that said: "what does to predict an unavoidable cathastrofe serve of?". And yeah, pale king didnt follow this precept of zote.
While playing the first time, constant encounters with tiso reaally make me thought i will fight him in whatever colliseum of fools was. Pretty sad when i saw his corpse :(
i was happy because i got my ass kicked like 9 times trying the trial of the fool and i thought he won but when i got nail upgrades and came back i saw his corpse and i was satisfied knowing i didnt get outdone by an npc
Zote the Mighty is not only a vessel, he was such a fearsome vessel that the Pale King himself was intimidated by him. Zote was the Pale King's attempt to defeat the Radiance with overwhelming strength. Grey Prince Zote was actually his original form but he was so handsome that the Pale King got jealous and banished him, causing him to lose all his memories. By the time he returned he was small and weak, and held a grudge against his father. When he sees the Knight he subconsciously remembers that they are his inferior sibling, so he bullies them as is the normal and healthy relationship between siblings. Bretta is the only one who can see through his weathered exterior and realize his inner potential, which he will recapture in the Zote the Mighty DLC that we'll get instead of the Hornet DLC where you play as Zote who becomes buff and one shots every enemy in the game and has super strength and super speed and infinite health and shoots lasers out of eyes and
Zote almost entirely admits he is from the Abyss. Let's take a look at the precepts. -Precept 20: Speak only the Truth. Becuase of this Zote never lies. So everything after this Must be fact. -Precept 19: If you try, Succeed. Zote cannot lose, and due to this precept we find that he never admits he loses. Not even to himself. So there wouldnt be dialog of him Losing his memory, becuase Zote doesn't lose. However... Precept 4: Forget your Past -Due to this precept he Purposefully forgot his time in Hollownest, and everything else that came before. He didnt Lose his memory, he purposefully forgot it. Precept 22: Abandon The Nest -This was covered in the video and explains itself. Precept 28: Dont Peer into the Darkness -Peering into the darkness (or Abyss) makes him think of his past, and the past should be forgotten as per precept 4. Precept 32: Names have Power -None of the Void babies have names. All of them are weak. The Pale king has a name. As do the 5 knights. And the Dreamers. Zote named himself to give himself power and named Life Ender too. Precept 35: Up is Up, Down is Down. Zote says if you fall over in the darkness it's hard to gather your bearings. Most of the other precepts come from his own experience. And while it Could be from him falling over in the Abyss while getting out. It could also be he just tripped in a dark part of Hollownest (though, back then, it wasnt as dilapidated as it is now, so more places should already have been lit up) Precept 40: Obey No Law but your Own -Hollownest has law and order (step into this Kingdom and obey our laws). Either Zote came from somewhere else civilized enough to have law, or hes from Hollowness and doesnt like following his fathers rules. Precept 56: Do Not Dream -This was instilled in him as a vessel to not be taken over by the Radiance. Precept 55: Bow to No One -Mentions that others will try to impose their will on you and you shouldn't let. Another important precept for battling the infection. Precept 6: Choose your own fate -'Elders teach that our fate is chosen before we are even born. I disagree' sounds like Zote didnt like the sound of being made with a purpose in mind. (Even though Precet 14: 'Respect your Superiors' would have him listen to his elders, he still disagrees) And finally, most important 2 are: Precept 18: Find Truth in Darkness. -The abyss holds the Truth. Precept 50: Dont linger on Mysteries -Best not to think too hard about it.
"Because of this Zote never lies" Meanwhile, Zote "The Mighty, the best Knight that the world ever knew": *struggles with basic enemies, doesn't do a single damage in combat, and lies through his teeth that he didn't need your help while you not helping leads to him dying, and claiming to be the new Champion of the Arena of Fools while the Knight is looking at him dead-ass.* ... I *think* we can say that Zote isn't as reliable as he says.
6:32 Actually, lots of other NPCs don't have mouths either, like the nailmasters for instance. yet all of them can talk. I think that characters not having mouths might just be a quirk of the artstyle.
Pale King: "After so long... it's time. You being the vessel with the strongest will and the strongest might shall hold the The Radiance within yourself and save this great kingdom!" Zote: "No" Pale King: "Well, it was worth a shot. Second best it is. HOLLOW KNIGHT! YOU'RE UP!"
@@sharpfang well, to be fair, most of his personality comes from his hatred of his parents. Imagine being told the only reason you were conceived is to die, then to have your corpse reanimated by something that you don’t comprehend and then effectively tortured for eternity. And that you failed step one. That being said, I don’t think this is likely. Zote is far too weak to climb out of the abyss and lacks the mental fortitude. I think a more fitting argument would be that Zote was the pale king’s first child, and he realized that it wouldn’t work to have a thing with dreams fight the thing that mind controls things with dreams, hence the uncountable amount of corpses in the abyss. Still doesn’t seem likely tho
@@obviouslykaleb7998 Eh, in my headcanon Zote is not "first", just "one of", only as the attempts at producing the perfect vessel go, Zote is *exceptionally* botched - not your average failure; Pale King and White Lady must have had a really bad day when Zote was conceived.
@@sharpfang In mine, he was going to be the Hollow Knight, but the bugs of Hallownest began to worship him, so to avoid backlash, the Pale King chose another and also taped all subsequent vessels’ mouths shut when throwing them into the void.
you know, I heard theories from a very long while ago that Elder was Zote father but I refuse to believe this adorable old man would ever be terrible in any shape, way or form
Imagine drawing your own character, paying a Kickstarter to have them included in the game, and them actually being included, only for them to show up like 4 times throughout the game, and die off screen. Oh, and the game later makes a joke out of their death in the final DLC, by having a fake-out boss battle with your character, only for them to get crushed by the real boss Meanwhile, "Burlap" is able to assist the player in a fairly difficult boss battle, and has 2 different endings to her story, one where she fights a warrior's death and achieves her dream, and the other where she decides to venture on with her life and find new challenges, still hoping that one day they'll be reunited with their beloved Nola. Cherry showing some real bias here
It's also possible the creator wanted that fate for Tiso. Some people like stories with tragic endings, and what's more tragic then achieving your dream of fighting in the coliseum, only to be instantly crushed? Of obtaining your goal, but also realizing upon obtaining it that you're not worthy of it. I choose to believe Tiso was made for this purpose. Not everyone had a happy ending.
Tiso is the one who makes you aware of the arena's existence, so he's not utterly useless. And don't forget, it's their game, backers are helping them make their game not change it. If they had no other use for him, they shouldn't have changed their story just for that, so it's good they didn't.
i think tiso spencer (the creator of tiso) either wanted or at least was made aware of his character’s end, because when you dreamnail tiso after he dies his thoughts show up as “why..?”, and then when you go into the secret room full of messages by the game’s backers (found by dreamnailing one of the big moth statue’s head) you can find the last message being by tiso spencer, and all it says is “i know…”, which feels like it’s supposed to be answering back to the character’s dreamnail dialogue and saying that his end was planned to be this early on. i could be wrong though, this was just what i thought!
Looks like some people haven’t memorised the precepts. “Precept Forty-Five: ‘One Thing Is Not Another’. This one should be obvious, but I’ve had others try to argue that one thing, which is clearly what it is and not something else, is actually some other thing, which it isn’t. Stay on your guard!”
It’s funny, because this kind of sounds like this is actually taking a dig at the Buddhist precept that, fundamentally, everything is more or less of the same spiritual material. Differences are merely a subject of the imagination. I didn’t explain it very well but this seems to be the idea.
I feel like Zote's similar appearance is not because he is a vessel, but because he's imitating one. The Hollow Knight's fame of "the greatest knight of the greatest kingdom of all time" may have spread to other places with intelligent bugs (still no clue what's going on in those places, but we can only hope for so much information), so some self absorbed jerk who wants to pretend to be a skilled knight might imitate his appearance. I mean, he has a wooden nail, a tattered cloak, and his mask appears to be the most poorly made of any masked character in the game, so it's likely that he made them himself at low effort. I still mentally call him "Don QuiZote".
Cloth, Tiso, Corny, Iselda, and Zote all came to Hallownest but never left it in the first place. Quirrel is the only that actually leaves the Kingdom and comes back, thus loosing his memories/the mind that the kingdom grants in the process. "Those foolish enough to traverse this void must pay the toll and relinquish the precious mind this kingdom grants." He was most likely called back by Monomon/her mask around the same time The Knight was called back to Hallownest by The Hollow Knight. Monomon wants the seals to break, so it would make sense for her to call back Quirrel once she felt the weakening of the seals.
So clearly there are towns beyond dirtmouth with bugs not infected. I'd assume there's a whole bug society within the kingdom but not in hallownest itself.
If you grew up in Hallownest and benefited from the "precious mind" it grants, it makes sense that leaving could screw your mind and memories over. Your mind would basically be getting reduced in potency, a bit like getting a magical lobotomy. Bugs from the outside never had an expanded mind in the first place, and its unclear if outsiders can get it just from entering. None of them comment on gaining sentience and/or an expanded mind upon entering the realm, and you'd think they would mention something that life-changing if it happened. And I think all the talk about the outside being hostile to intelligence/only inhabited by simple bugs might just mean that Hallownest is surrounded by dangerous lands that are hostile to civilization, such that only highly adapted animal-like bugs can survive for long. Its likely that other bug civilizations exist beyond this vast desert. But the bugs of Hallownest did not know of them, as they seemingly were never able to explore beyond this desert, since the tablet says that "there's no world beyond". Or maybe their dependency, from birth, on the precious mind that the kingdom grants made them unable to leave. The bugs of Hallownest believed only unintelligent beasts could survive outside their realm, but they were wrong as they did not know the whole world.
I always interpreted it as the perfect vessel not having a "mind to think, voice to cry suffering and will to break" to be the REASON that he's the pure vessel. What I mean by this is that if you have any of those things "a voice, a mind, or a will to break", you've failed as a vessel. To me, this kinda points towards zote being a failed vessel considering... you know... he HAS all of those (ok, maybe not a mind considering he's as dense as a neutron star, but still). But overall, there is more concrete evidence pointing to the other possibility.
I believe any semblance of will present in void beings made by the pale king exists because he, for lack of a better term, "programmed" them to display those traits. Like, why else would the moulds themselves have dialogue, especially dialogue that just sounds like orders being given and matches the seen purpose of said creatures? If Zote is a failed vessel, it's likely due to him being...ironically enough, too big brained, and developed an actual will.
So here's my take on it. I recall it being mentioned that at any 'main city' for bugs, your memories and intelligence are granted by whatever great wyrm or similar being resides there. Your connection to that wyrm or 'god' and its powers grant you memory and intelligence and let you keep both. The reason those from "other lands" are in tact is because they still hold that connection even where they are. The memory loss seems to happen more to those who have lost their patron or abandoned it in some way. The terrible things happening in Hallownest are probably part of why Quirrel, whose from Hallownest, lost some of his memories. As for Zote, I think that while he wasn't a vessel himself, he _befriended_ one. Zote, travelling from some far off land, gets lost or stuck near the city. Another vessel, like the Knight, finds and saves him from dying. I imagine the two of them likely traveled together for a little ways, perhaps just sharing stories. Maybe Zote figured out this vessel had issues with its father like his own, or created his own narrative reason to stick together. Zote's father, I think, is connected somehow to the 'power' in Zote's home city that grants the bugs _there_ their sentience, their intelligence. As such, by rejecting his father Zote has been slowly losing his memories and sense of self the more he travels between the cities. Zote then decided they should _both_ leave Hallownest outright. With such a strong companion, what do they have to fear? Thus, they do, or...at least, they try to. Something out there when they tried to leave caused the vessel to die. Zote, perhaps trying to honor its memory, donned its mask and cloak. Thing is, Zote still tried to keep leaving Hallownest, which kept wearing down his memory and sense of self more and more. Eventually, he forgot all about his friend, but still remembered the combat prowess and skills, remembered the _spirit_ of the warrior but not the warrior itself. Since he was still wearing the vessel's gear, he ended up creating a whole new narrative in his head that in fact _he_ was that great warrior, and we just find him after he'd wandered back into Hallownest and got himself stuck. That's why he comes across like such a strange character, we're seeing someone whose mind's been worn down by the outside world and is essentially living half of two lives. His sense of self is so worn down by this point that he doesn't even have enough awareness to realize that he can't fight at all, can't recognize when he's in danger, can't even recognize when the person he was talking to has gotten up and left. I think when we see him back in the city, he really has finally cracked. He doesn't even notice when Bretta leaves, he's just stuck there, mindlessly repeating his precepts because there's nothing else left.
unfortunately this has some problems. "your memories and intelligence are granted by whatever great wyrm or similar being resides there" This cant be true because Mantis tribe, Deepnest and bee hive existed before pale king. Besides that the mask maker explains memory loss, it happens when a bug assumes new identity through new mask, thats why there are few bugs among all npcs we encounter that have problems with their memory, also as you can imagine masks hold high significance in a game.
@@tezwoacz Interesting, I've been to the mask maker but I didn't remember them mentioning the masks being tied to memory loss or new identities. For the bees, I would imagine their 'queen' could probably work as a stand-in for the great wyrm, perhaps? No idea about the mantis however, that'd be something else. Rest assured that I've been away from the game long enough that I've forgotten plenty of little lore bits by this point, haha.
@@Cellidor sure Mask Maker: Is it mask or face upon the creature? In Hallownest, a difficult thing it can be to decipher. It sees the face beneath! Or could it be just another mask? Truth in Hallownest is always buried deep. How many layers will it pry through? This can be interpreted as you not knowing if someone is wearing a mask or not. Player character however does wear a mask as evident by you collecting your mask pieces and your mask falling off when you die. Mask Maker: To change a face; to conceal it fully within another... A powerful protection that is, but one with sad consequence. The original mind is destroyed, though those of striking will may still retain a sliver of that concealed self. This can be interpreted as bug loosing its memory/mind when changing a mask which explains how characters like quirell lost his memories, because he accepted a different mask. Mask Maker: A mask! A face! Does it need one? Does it not? To define. To focus. To exist. This can be interpreted as mask/face of the creature giving it ability to use souls (focus) and a higher reason to exist (higher inteligence), this would explain why so many go down into hollownest and loose memory (according to elderbug), basically travellers seek more power (souls + intelect) but when they put on a mask they loose their former selves.
@@tezwoacz Based on those quotes, I actually find myself being drawn towards, well...just how actual insect colonies work. Each worker fitting into a caste, with some bugs in some species freely changing their caste as they progress or based on the needs of the hive. Neat stuff!
I think that's the best and simplest explanation to this. Zote was probably vessel 0001. And considering it took 1000's of vessel's to get 'the Hollow Knight' right (which ironically wasn't), he was cast off and abandoned due to this.
RedArcanist actually, it's not stated if the void is born from the abyss, or if the abyss is the place from which the void first appeared. It could be that the void came from within the character. As an emptyness inside. Like when people tell us we have no feelings or empathy, meaning we're closer to the void. I dunno if i explained myself right. Congrats to team cherry for making us wander into the depthps of the mind and the fields of psycology. Not every developer does that and i applaude them for. Thanks again... pd.: I think the pale king named the abyss as a place where he would discard his failed experiments. He never expected things to develop the way they did.
"When you were partying, I studied the nail." "When you were having premarital sex, I mastered the Nail Arts." "While you wasted your days in the Abyss in pursuit of hollowness, I cultivated inner strength." "And now that Hallownest is in ruin and the Infection is at the gate, you have the audacity to come to me for help?"
Zote is established to be forgetful, as he introduces himself to the Knight twice - once in Greenpath, and again in the City of Tears. What if Zote escaped the Abyss and forgot he was ever there?
I cant believe neither you or any of the comments mention that Zote is a reference to the literature masterpiece "Don QuijOTE" which tells the story of a self claimed knight who thinks he needs to fulfill the a promise related to his eternal love.
mossbag never the less your videos are very high quality! You should google Don quixote and see what im talking about. If we take it into consideration its possible to assume that Zote simply lost his sanity and thinks hes a vessel.
Pale King: Let's make a vessel to control this infection! *Creates Zote, The Mighty™* Pale King: hmmmmm. Maybe with less personality. NEXT! (also, might be a language thing, but Zote is a name for the Jack in playing cards, so...King, Queen and Zote.)
Pale king isn't earning any dad of the year awards. But I disagree with people who say that he's a terrible person in general. Remember how Salubra mentioned that charms are the physical manifestations of someone's dying wish? When I got the kingsoul charm, I always interpreted that as the king realizing that the Hollow Knight failed, and sacrificed himself to create the kingsoul charm as a last ditch effort to give a lingering vessel a chance to unite the void and defeat the radiance. Then when you dreamnail the king's body, it simply says 'no cost too great.' Which really sold me on my theory.
Lightning Kai I dunno, in the charm description is written that the king's soul is used to symbolize a union, so doesn't make sense that the charm already existed? And if it is the will of the king, why is half of it with the Queen? And not... Well, the whole charm? This game still have many more information to give us... Hopefully
Pale King is actually a very tragic character. His bond and care toward his perfect vessel, his son, was what caused it to become imperfect in the future.
Celtic Hazelnut You must remember hes not a person/bug. Hes a wyrm, like the radiance, who came to hollownest, destroyed the radiance’s hive mind with the people, diminishing her power trying to destroy her by making everyone forget. Radiance came back, recreated her hive mind which the Pale Wyrm (Pale King) called a plague, sealed it away from hollownest in an imperfect vessel, and now we are here.
I’d think that pale king wanted to first make a vessel that had an extremely strong will and dream so much that it will defy the radiance and contain her forever so they created zote, but after realising his will was strong enough to defy parents they decided to do the opposite Zote to me is a failed IDEA of the pale king
I think his problems with memory is (unlike most things in this game) simple, he has shit memory. Just like when we save him, then meets us in Dirtmouth and introduces himself to us, and then again in City of Tears. So i say alzeheimer most probably.
i just had a thought- that when zote said "i came to this kingdom to fulfill a promise", in support of the idea that zote is a sibling, "i came to this kingdom" could be a poetic way of saying being birthed-, and "to fulfill a promise" is a reference to how the vessels where made to contain/stop the radiance.
since the purpose was already finished by someone else, it would technically be accomplished by the other vessels as well (as they wouldn't need to pursue it). I mean, that's what Zote would believe IF it is true and before he purposefully (or accidentally) lost his memory
"In order to stop Mothra from taking order the world" that took a laugh out of me. Also the mysterious force. Ever notice the Knight doesn't take fall damage WHAT DOES THIS MEAN
Easy! The Knight doesn't actually weigh anything, its shell, cloak, and nail do. Even slicing a fool throws you back. The Knight is a total lightweight, therefore takes no fall damage Also, have you SEEN bugs? Durable little bastards, never seem to suffer from a fall
10:15 I just realized something, iselda bears a striking resemblance to isma of the 5 great knights, and while I doubt they are the same character, as isma is explicitly seen dead, is it possible that she is the daughter of isma and maybe Ogrim, as their dialouge mentions some sort of connection? Just a thought.
Neat Studios I accidentally dream nailed his armor after in the dream fight, it had the maggots dialogue, so it was most likely a glitch, but the theory is still interesting non the less
I kind of doubt it tbh. She has no reaction to the defender's crest, they have different head shapes, she never thinks about Hallownest in her dream nail dialogue, and her dialogue implies that she has lived with Cornifer for a while. "He always does this, furiously charts a place, then collapses once he's done." Also, she was unaware that Hallownest had trams, if you look at her dialogue when talking to her after getting the tram pass, despite the trams being made when all the knights were alive and proudly serving the Pale King.
@@bulbasaur7149 well vessels are the pale king's children and their head shapes are completely different, and maybe she just doesn't like to talk about trams because it reminds her of the 5 knights, one being her dead mom. same for the defender's crest. and the dream nail.
Assuming this is a legitimate argument for Zote Is Not A Sibling: He may have taken a bit of a stroll into the wastelands outside of Hallownest, lost a fair bit of his memory, then decided it's too scary out there and came back. Sounds like a Zote thing to do.
Zote also mentions he has a brother and mother, that he formed his nail from his egg shell He also mentioned his brother should not be forgiven, makes frequent references to people mocking at him Also when zote has his ending talking to his new girlfriend/admirer he implies that his quest has been a success (dream-nail)
What if the knight is modeled AFTER zote? Like the pale king met him once, he told him he was a knight of great renown as we all know, and then the pale king was so impressed he modeled all of his tube babies after such a legendary hero?
Honestly I support the idea of Zote being one of the first Vessels of the Pale King, who thinks slaying everything will make the Pale King proud, while the Pale King was trying to get the perfect Vessel to seal the Radiance. A good example of why Zote can be a vessel is because of the void particles he emits from both his Dream Boss, and the Zotes in The Eternal Ordeal.
Those are both “Dream battles” but it actually kinda makes sense. And I know from seeing Silksong gameplay that Hornet doesn’t produce/emit void when dying or getting hit, but instead drops silk strands. It also still makes sense if you look at all of the bosses, that produce/emit Orange Particles when they are defeated, which is the Infection. (I don’t remember if the Mantis Lords have the orange particles or not but I assume they don’t have the particles considering they aren’t infected) Edit: just looked up a quick video of someone beating the Mantis Lords. They emit White Particles, proving even more that they are not infected. Not sure exactly what it means however, but I think it means they are “Pure, not filled with unnatural things”.
I'm not completely sold. I think you're putting too much significance into the line, "I came to this kingdom..." Couldn't climbing out of the abyss be considered, "coming to the kingdom?" The Hollow Knight was chosen because it seemed the best candidate for containing the Radiance, but failed because it wasn't as empty as they'd thought. We know it took many, many failed attempts to get there - ergo, the likelihood that the vessels got progressively emptier until they thought they'd succeeded. Zote's appearance is far more worn and haggard than the Knight's, indicating he could be one of the earlier failed attempts. Nobody wants to believe their existence is a mistake, so Zote rationalizes the attempt to dispose of him into Precept 52. Perhaps Zote truly was a badass: Maybe he had to slaughter other vessels before clawing his way out of the abyss, a process that left him weak and scarred. The dream nail line, "I'll kill a thousand more..." while fighting the Knight might not be boasting in its implication that he *has* killed a thousand.
You're pointing out differences between Zote and the "Finished Product," which wasn't actually empty either - hence failing to contain the Radiance. We know they created thousands of vessels, the Hollow Knight and protagonist would have been two of the last (and most polished) of them. If alterations to the design/process had not been necessary they wouldn't have needed to create so many vessels in the first place. Also, look at some of the Precepts. For example: Precept 6 seems to refer to how the siblings were all made for a specific purpose. Precept 11, the white lady handing over her eggs to be made into vessels. Precept 32, "names have power," implying he wasn't given a name and may have named himself to affirm and solidify his individuality. Precept 53 seems to refer to how the siblings attack anyone that isn't 'empty' i.e. the player before getting the Void Heart. So as I said, his worn appearance and frailty could be due to age and/or from clawing his way out of the abyss, and it stands to reason that having a personality could be due to being one of the earlier failed attempts to create an empty vessel. But either way, it's all just theory based on limited information until Team Cherry decides to reveal more. It's possible even they don't/didn't have a specific plan for Zote and we're all just hypothesizing over random scraps.
Templar Knight if he's an ancient older "model" so to speak, it could be possible the pale king tried to get the vessels to be capable of talking in order to better communicate / relay their instructions, but later realised a truly empty vessel couldnt have such a thing
The jealousy of fathers and betrayal of mothers lines sounds more thematic to me. Its pretty much a central theme in the game, echoed in various places, like with the grub father.
He could easily be a older sibling that left the best early, thereby never dying to be filled with void in the first place like other vessels. I wouldn't consider my birth town "home" nor would I know my way around it if I traveled there.
“I came to this kingdom” could refer to him escaping the abyss. As the spinster says, no kingdom spans everything, only the ancient ruling caste tried to (but failed). The Abyss could well be thought of as a space outside the kingdom, even being actively isolated from the kingdom. I find the idea of Zote being an early Zygote (see what I did there?) of the pale king, very convincing, tbh. Probably a failed one where the void only lightly entered his body but failed to erase him altogether, even keeping his gender intact.
One thing that always bugged me is that zote in Greta's dream produces void when defeated that resembles the collectors death So ZOTE IS VOID CONFIRMED
"Quirrel was once an assistant to Monomon the Teacher" guess what the fandom made out of this: "Monomon is Quirrel's adoptive Mom!" PS: if we get a Zote DLC, then i hope that despite of his bluff, to be enjoyable as playable character, he will still stay in-character. as in: you don't beat enemies by fighting them, but by setting traps or something similar... but still in the style of Metroidvania! and i hope the end-boss will be Zote's father.
i thinks what a lot of people miss about zote, at least to some degree, is that he makes no sense at all. Even though he'll die to the Vengfly king if you leave him, and he'll get tied up in deepnest if you save him, even though and his weapon does no damage to the knight, he does do some actually impressive things. throughout the game Quirrel constantly talks about how dangerous Hallonest is, and how simply navigating it is a task likely to turn deadly for even experienced adventurers and warriors. Yet we see zote everywhere from dirt mouth to greenpath and the city of tears and even deepnest; which he penetrates deeper than basically anyone else, with cornifer not going far past the entrance. Also if you leave him there he'll somehow escape, supposedly on his own and make it to the collesium all by himself, where he proves to be unreasonably resistant to nail strikes. and then he somehow gets back to dirt mouth with a piece of armor from the coliseum. What i'm saying is that there's definitely more to him than it seems.
Precept Twenty-Eight: 'Don't Peer Into the Darkness'. If you peer into the darkness and can't see anything for too long, your mind will start to linger over old memories. Memories are to be avoided, as per Precept Four.
Since I’m pretty sure he’s called “Grey prince zote” , maybe he’s from a different kingdom, and in that kingdom his father was the king and was super strong, so when zote was born and was pretty much useless, so his father abused him which explains why one of his mask’s horns looks broken off, and zote left the kingdom to prove himself and get away from his family, and also why he acts so stuck up since he’s royalty But that’s just a theory, a BUG THEORY
My headcanon is that Zote was the first vessel but was deemed a failure and abandoned. Since he was annoying, no one really objected to this decision. Which is why he has such a grudge against his parents. Zote's blatant narcissism led him to believe that the reason his father (Pale King) abandoned him was because he was jealous of his sheer power. Zote felt betrayed by his mother (White Lady) for agreeing with the Pale King's choice instead of defending him. The line that lead me to believe that Zote is a vessel (or at least a very early version of one) is his line in precept #56 "Dreams are dangerous things. Strange ideas, not your own, can worm their way into your mind. But if you resist those ideas, sickness will wrack your body! Best not to dream at all, like me." It could be that the early versions of the vessels had their ability to dream entirely removed to make them immune to the infection, and that their ability to talk and think weren't removed until later. The ability to not dream actually worked well in Zote's favor ironically enough, since he doesn't seem to show any signs of being infected in the entire course of the game. Although just because he's not infected it doesn't mean he'd make a suitable vessel, he still has thoughts and feelings that could be easily influenced, hence why he was considered a failure. Of course this is all just speculation and I'm not sure if any of this is even true. I don't even know why I'm overanalyzing the lore behind a joke character in the first place.
His will and dreams were too strong for the radiance my theory was that pale king created him for this reason but realised a vessel with a mind too strong was a mistake as he wouldn’t listen to them (obviously) so he got abandoned and pale king decided to do the complete opposite
@@legrandliseurtri7495 -- Thanks. I hadn't gotten to the Pantheon of Hallownest at the time. I got a good laugh out of that when I finally saw it happen, though.
(applause)... ACTION TEXT IS PUT IN ASTERISKS YOU FUC- seriously though, I never thought Zote might have been referring to the Pale King in his colosseum of fools dream nail dialogue. I feel like a fucking idiot now.
Feelings in action text... Are feelings actions? Oh my, you're actually alluding to the millennial mentality of feeling bad for the impoverished instead of taking action. Your four words of dialogue are truly the deepest lore in the comment section.
Very interesting video! I never question so deep zote back-history, I alwys think he was an adventurous bug in search of glory and riches; but very bad in everything adventuring related
Never liked the idea that bugs lose their intelligence when they leave the vicinity of Hallownest. Glad somebody pointed out how inconsistent that idea is with everything we see in-game.
seems like bias confirmation to me, not really a solid argumentation, which is fine, but dont tell me "how inconsistent that idea is with everything we see in-game." because it is not
@@yankokassinof6710 I think that he is saying that we see bugs who are new to hallownest but already have minds. However mask maker says that not all are born with a face and your face gives you your personality, with a mask or a higher being being able to grant faces.
When I fought Zote for the first time in the coliseum, I was so weary of him. I thought the game was giving me a red herring by displaying him as incapable, but in reality he could rip my ass. Well, I ripped his instead. Finally got to use all the nail arts on someone. Lol.
I'd say that the final nail in the coffin for Zote being one of the failed experiments is that if you leave him to die there will not be a shade where he died. Something which has been observed to happen when the experiments die
