What's Wrong with the Plumbers Union? - the Good and the Bad 

What do you think about my critiques? Was I on-point or was I wrong?

Union carpenter for 36 years retired with a pension health and insurance . I own 4 houses. Thank you labor unions!

I’m a 3rd year apprentice in a union and I show up work hard and I’ve learned so much in my short time. I’ve never had any issues whatsoever. I’ve always been respected and taken care of by all my foremen and journeymen. I love that I know I’m doing something at no cost to me that can provide for my family.

You should do a video on the difference between plumbers and pipefitters

I left the union. But I would go back. Why? Pretty simple. UNION for commercial projects. Non-UNION for residential services.

I got into the Electricians Union right out of highschool, did 5 years apprenticeship and just hit 25 years in the Union. I’ve be worked solid all these years. General Forman now running big work it’s been a great career!!

I'm a union plumber with local 75 out of Wisconsin. I didn't the bulk of my apprenticeship at a non union shop. Now, I can only speak for my personal experience but I saw more "good old boys" clubs in non union shops than I have in union shops. I think the decision weather to be union depends on each person's needs and wants. I enjoy your videos Roger. Keep up the good work.

I am a Union HVAC Technician in Louisiana. The best thing about the hall in my opinion is how helpful it is to begin your adult life and try to do something with it. I’ve been in it for 7 years and I am grateful for where the hall has given me the steps I need to take in order for me to be successful.

I've been in service for 3 years, and my favorite part is that I'll work on everything from cups and springs all the way to big commercial heater replacements. Always different every day, and I work for a good company that really cares about me and my work.

I was a union Sheetmetal worker for 4 years, During my 3rd year I was given a truck and a crew by the company and was running my own jobs making journeyman scale. A few journeyman had a problem with this and filed grievances. 2 months later I owed the union 10k or I would lose my job. I walked away, took a different path in life and I’m happy as can be. But the good old boys club has to go! I also paid the appropriate dues for my pay scale. I support unions still but I will never work for one again.

I'll be a 2nd year apprentice on feb.10th and so far I'm not complaining. School SUCKS right now because of Covid19 but I'm still not complaining, yet! I've heard good and bad. But right now I'm okay with everything. Thanks for your videos I've been watching them ever since I joined. (I'm the 2nd black female plumber in my local, I'm a living legend 😎)

I agree with almost everything you said except for what you brought up about people not being yelled at if they just do what they’re supposed to do. I was harassed CONSTANTLY at my last job because my management was jealous that I was in my early 20’s making the same money they made after 10 years of work. Being the youngest in any profession is so damn difficult. You get poked and poked and poked until you can’t handle it anymore and then when you say something you have become the entitled youth of the group.....it’s extremely stupid. And North Carolina is a right to work state so employers can do whatever they please to employees.....it’s bad for employees in this state....

I'm out of UA Local 525 in Vegas. I'm a licensed plumber, pipefitter, hold my rigging certs. Have worked service side, commercial, new construction, remodels, refineries, nuke plants, Etc. There is great truth to what you shared in this video. There are many that have very arrogant and condescending attitudes towards organized hands, book buyers, or rats as you mentioned. I've worked alongside some amazingly skilled hands that cane from outside the union. It amazes me how threatened some become when those from outside the union join the ranks. There is no better time to come along side and embrace a new member, encouraging them with a genuine Brotherhood that is supposed to be what the Union is all about. I've seen many of the good old boys, the cliques, the stubborn that refuse to evolve and grow into new ways, tools, technologies. Too many that view the contractor as an enemy and not a partner. No contractors = no employer You nailed it in regards to the life changing benefits financially offered to the members. As well as the challenge it creates for contractors to bid jobs. Our local has two scales one for residential/service The other for commercial/new construction Finally trying to regain market share in the residential service sector. Training is absolutely top notch and critical tio making oneself a valuable asset to the contractors and your union. It is unfortunate that it is boom or bust when a Union hand. Yet a blessing with the great training, I'm able to travel to any local that is needing men to man the work. While the open shop hands seem to have many options whether booming or not. Solid arguments by you both pro and con.

I am 100% UA. I has been incredibly awesome to me. I agree with a large portion of what you're saying, and I hope someone in the UA sees this and starts incentivizing members starting their own businesses.

I've been in the UA for 15 years. Started out right out of high school. Got in as HVACR Tech. the decision I made as a young kid coming out of high school. The pension and the benefits are great. Education is top notch. We have a different contract from the plumbers. We also do get holiday pay.

I'm a non union residential new construction plumber, best part is there is ALWAYS work. There's more work than all of the plumbers can Actually produce. Just in one house alone you can do the underground, gas, vents, top soil, and potable water. So imagine if the job has 15-20 houses! 💰💰💰

Union sheetmetal apprentice. Best thing as of right now is the quality of education. And they’re still finding ways to improve and grow.

I have been a member of Local 94 insulators union since 2011. I have seen SEVERAL union folks do some pretty questionable work. Not all union folks are up to par, but some of us try to keep ourselves to the union standards. Good work can come from both union AND non union!!

4th year plumbing apprentice here in Toronto. Wage is amazing, we work 36 hour work weeks, so we have every Friday off which is so amazing, gives more time to do side jobs🤑🤑

I work hard. I’m smart. I applied with the union didn’t hear anything from them. Applied at a open shop learned from a master plumber, probably the best plumber in the metro area I live in (service plumber). Now the union leaders approach and want me to join. When asked about joining with no experience they said “you really need to know some one to get in”. The union needs to take a chance on guys. I am a successful service plumber with the house and car to prove it. I wouldn’t join the union now because it would be a pay cut. That good old boy or family member only mentality will be the end of the union.

Licensed plumber in two different states one being in Hawaii good thing about the union was the size of the jobs seeing plumbing jobs from 12' underground to the roof drains . Good things about service work is the devsity of the call it can be a simple vacuum breaker on a hose bib or a slab leak and repipe. Ive been on both sides union and non union and agree with with you a lot of good on both sides as longs as you enjoy the plumbing trade. Only thing is i used to get double union dues taking out when I started over 25 years ago which didn't seem fair.

Currently, I'm a high school student in a 2 year course that gives me my first year of electrical

I started non union and brought the skills and speed to the table. Capital Plumbing and Heating was the best. Shout out to Ron,Jack and Mark more power to Capital. Rat means we work fast and efficient.

Best video on this topic. Your experience you shared are the same as mine. Both the pros and cons. One big con left out that many guys experience is lay offs once the job is finished. Thank god I didn't have to experience that much myself.

Damn, this is kind of a shock. Im new to your channel and probably watched 20-30 bids, but def 1000% took you fpr a union guy thru and thru

Union Steamfitter. The best thing is still the pension. I really appreciate the training, but like you said it can be hit or miss with the instructors.

I think if you're in construction union is the way to go. Service on the other hand is dominated by non-union work and that's how it should be. Service is where the money is.

For the culture point, I love my union for that. everyone is always open for new ideas and new technology while still being old school

Member of 449 here. The residential market is a hard to use union. Your bread and butter is industrial work and maintenance contracts but it depends how your local is set up. If you're in a combination local of plumbers and pipefitters its easy to find those types of work opportunities. Pipe is pipe. If you're just a streamline local you get into jurisdiction disputes.

After watching "Right to Work" fights, seeing what happened to GM (my grandfather retired from there. When asked what he did, "when I'm tired, I pull a piece of cardboard and take a nap), and the whole black balling thing, I'm not really interested in unions.

I'm a UA plumber and pipefitter. It's really the only way to earn a decent living to support a family including retirement and Healthcare. Non-union will never pay you even close, respect you the same, or teach you as much. Honestly I went non union for a few years and could barely survive. Greedy people who take advantage of their men who are just happy to be working. Just my experience

Roger you are doing a amazing job with this channel. Thank you

2nd year bta. I work for a small mechanical outfit. Medically retired from the military, went through the VIP and came straight into the union a couple weeks after I was discharged. Ive got my gripes about the local, but all in all, I've got it pretty good. The work ethic from the military carried over into the building trades seamlessly, and I'd recommend it to any other vet that still wants to work with their hands. The so called "Brotherhood" in the local is extremely subjective, but there's definitely some guys that'll watch your back if they see that you work hard. I love it, and I appreciate it for what it is.

HVAC/R local 166. I've enjoyed the opportunity to work in bigger facilities than I had outside of the union.

I am a fan and have watched a lot of your videos but this one just popped up in my feed and I HAD to see what your opinions on Unions are. here are some quotes that I simply wanted to address from my perspective: "I would rather see a way that I can pay them a lower amount, and incentivize them..." I understand you said that you wanted to incentivize your employees, but the first part of that sentence is what perks the ears of union members. Lower wages and raises for doing a better job is literally how most business would say they operate today, but if you look at the numbers, companies without a union, even with "incentives" almost always pay less than a company with a union simply because there is nobody to stop the company without a union from continuing to dwindle pay and reducing the incentives. "you are liable to get blackballed or told we really don't need you around anymore you're doing too good of a job" This is one issue that I always had contention with when I was in a union, the issue isn't that they simply fire someone for doing a good job, but if the person is doing so much more than quota it can cause a huge issue with work flow and even job security. my first job was not a union job and I worked hard and busted hump every day under the promise that "There will always be more work" but the truth was that two months before the contract was due I was laid off because the contract was completely fulfilled two months early, this made the company I worked for very happy and it made the customer very happy and left me out of work for two months. While I understand this seems unfair to the company to deliberately not work as hard as I can, I thought it was unfair to lay me off for two months because I had worked so hard to get the quota met. The only difference is that the company made their money regardless of the timetable and I had to settle with the unemployment pay I was getting until I could find a new job. "There is no growth plan" "why aren't unions trying to get everyone to join?" I thought when I first joined a union. The truth is that companies will literally close down businesses to avoid a union forming and it ultimately is up to the employees if they want to form or join a union, so beyond pamphlets and advertising there is little that they can do.

I'm a long time IBEW member. Very upset with there political views! They should focus on the craft not campaign contributions. Great video sir!

all reasons I had put the open shop plumbing apprenticeship higher on my list of hopefuls to get into than the union one

I agree, I’m have been worked both. I’m non Union now. In my opinion a good majority of people in the union are stuck in the past. I have met a lot of good people in the union and non union. I think it just comes down to the persons character and doing the right thing.

As growing up in a pro labour union family (local 183) with a sister with a disability the benefits are amazing for employees but as a business owner I could see where there's some negativity towards unions

In Chicago I am a non union shop for 20 years and have always believed in quality work no matter what. Recommend by many local villages . But in the city itself the inspectors are told to fail our inspections before they even leave the office . Unoin reps on my jobs tell me to not keep full time employees,never been a big fan.

I'm interested in entering the plumbing trade and stumbled upon your channel. Good eye contact and speaking. I am currently working as a Drain Tech and hurt my back lifting a heavy snake and got no loss pay from my employer via WCB. I'm looking towards going to find a plumber who's a journeyman/red seal certified. I hear when working under an actual plumber you don't have lift 100 lb equipment, is there anything else I should be aware of before I take the "plunge" (plumber's pun) into plumbing?

UA 290 myself. I take probably 100 hours of continuing Ed every year through my union for free. The dues are well worth it. Also, my monthly dues are 35 dollars a month plus maybe $1.50 an hour while I’m working. I total package is $97 an hour with $58 an hour on the check. I worked nonunion and the biggest difference to me in the safety practice. Saftey is what make sure I get home each night, I have desire to work o nonunion

I was a plumber in local 690 and hated it honestly it was to Political for me a lot of favoritism and extra BS that I did not agree with so now I work for a private company after resigning from the union and I’m happier than I ever been but being in the union and the plumber I am today which is a very good very proficient plumber so I did get some growth from being in the union that much I can say

I worked in a grocery store and we were union. My wages and benefits would have been substantially less (Walmart pay and benefits) if it weren't for the union. I quit working for the grocery store after we went on strike for a month and a half. We made money to be on the picket lines but way less. We had a bit of public support in the beginning. I started seeing the customers I was so nice to cross our line. When the strike was over, I quit. I couldn't bring myself to be nice to the customers who crossed. I worked for Kroger's for 9 years and earned a little pension. I then became a plumber!

I remember a union guy who told me the union was going to upgrade their old typewriting machine. They decided not to move forward because they feared the old employee would have a hard time learning and may lose hours. So yes unions are good in keeping jobs but they prevent advancement in trades and productivity. Sometimes there needs to be a balance. Makes me wonder if the automobile companies were dragged down by the union.

I think that the Unions were first created to protect the workers from bad bosses/owner, unsafe conditions, and get a way to talk with bosses/owners. IMO, we really need that in the world because they are meant keep the bad bosses/owners in check, stop bad laws, and help maintain a good standard. Unions also help the people at the top to know what's going on and how the workers are doing. Unions have, in general, gotten corrupt, greedy, and forgot what they are supposed to be doing but that can only really be done from the inside from the bottom up. A good, healthy, and successful business requires a symbiotic relationship between the owner/boss and the workers. The owner needs the worker just as much as the worker needs the owner.

Plumbing for over 30 years and worked in and out of the Union. My Union scale now is $30.48 with $42.48 total package ( including benefits). Worked for Non Union shop for 6 years $30 an hour zero benefits. While working for the Non Union shop I collected directly from the customer who was charged $89 just for me showing up and $160 an hour for my labor. At the least I made over $1,200.00 a day and have collected over $6000 in one day. Done a water service in one day with less than $100 material and $600 labor. We charged book prices on that job and I collected $6000 that afternoon. If a Non Union shop says they can't match what the Union gives to their plumbers they are nothing more than greedy. I left the Non Union shop and they're about to lose another very good plumber to the Union because of greed. I've done all the up sale on jobs. Talked owners into repipes, going tankless and more but NOTHING for me but my wages. Non Union shops are basically saying I'll use you to get rich without one single drop of sweat.

Hey Roger, journeyman service mechanic here. Which local would you recommend in TX? I’m trying to figure out which market is best for hvac service.

Very much agree. For a young guy starting out. The only thing i dont thing you would get going union is cross training between trades. In my 20yrs as a skilled trades person ive been able to do construction and service doing plumbing hvac and refrigeration. I do not think i would have gotten as broad of experience from a union job. On the flip side i would likely have better retirement

If I complete my apprenticeship in California and receive my journeyman license, can I transfer to a different union in another state like Nevada or Texas?

Hey I’m looking to get into the plumbing field but I really just wanna get into the trade to do my own residential thing would you recommend I join the union or go to a paid school?

Is Union plumbing a bad idea at age 32 wife an 3 kids? Is it too risky due to lay offs to try an get in? Also here in Indiana Local 440 does anyone know union dues?

Union is a great deal. Got in when I was 20 and it was a great decision, not perfect but would highly recommend

I’m a Texas master plumber and I am not in the union. I do believe in training and education. I have licensed plumbers working under me and I strive to help make them better by sharing my experience and teaching them about the mistakes I made and how to avoid them. Your videos are very informative and I believe in what you are doing.

Master plumber here ...35 years in Local 364 in SoCalif. Didn't learn a thing in my apprenticeship....What else ya wanna know?

I've found most HVAC guys only do one of two things, sell you new or charge double if you just want it fixed.

IBEW member here, was open shop for 7yrs prior to joining union. Ive seen lots of shoddy work done in open shop because it was quantity over quality. Most union members take pride in their work and will not install shoddy work or work in unsafe conditions. Youd have to do something very stupid to get fired, however layoffs are commonly handed out to unproductive members. We work just as hard as open shop, but difference is we dont try to do a 4 man job with 2 people. Training is excellent, we can take any class for free. We also required to renew some training certifications every 3 yrs.Our bennies include heath insurance for self and family. 2 pensions and a 401k annuity. One pension we get comes from only paying dues. You could have never work a union job, but keep and membership and youll have a pension payment when you retire.

I’ve worked union and non union as a service plumber. Being union doing service work you don’t have time to give customers a good experience. In and out because my total package was costing the company almost 100 per hour. As a service plumber non union I have time to do things how I want. Provide excellent customer service and do it right by not killing myself. So I would rather work non union because I’m not being pressured or my wage being held over my head.

As an ex-union member. I know it was the unions (mostly the SEIU) that pushed for the $15 pay scale. With many SEIU scales at $15 to $20 an hour. It wasn't long we are hear every SEIU wanting to up their contracts. Saying they don't get paid enough.

I most likely won't even own a plunger for the rest of my life, but these videos are kinda great anyways. Holds up for any profession

I’m a commercial service plumbers helper here in nyc. It is possible for me to attend the training center/ school while not being in the union or staying in my job? I enjoy the company where I work at but I want to get as much education as possible even if it comes out of my own pocket. Is it possible?

The UA is second to none. Two years in, Local 333. Best choice for anybody wanting to get in to the pipe trades.

The best part of being a plumber is I own the knowledge in my head and i can sell it for whatever price i want.

The growth part is obejectively the biggest issue since unions are conservative from change. I mean we need to be bigger and open up to ideas that helps everyone.

Thank you for being a realistic union guy. So many union guys believe lies they’re fed by their reps. I’ve had union members tell me theirs no black balling that goes on, politics & no cons 🤦‍♂️

Journeyman from open shop to the local nearly doubled my hourly rate plus the Bennie's and. Best thing short of running my own shop. The bureaucracy is a different story...

As a steamfitter and plumber which are different trades up here my local 496 we always have to repair non unions work. With all those great skills picked up from building non union maybe wouldn’t have the problems your having in Texas now. Open shops brought poor skilled fitters and plumbers doing fitting which have been breaking unions bringing down wages . Since Reagan it doesn’t matter which party there both currupt. Sold everyone out a long time ago with his trade deals. Saying you can’t compete because of wages sounds alot like saying you can’t compete with China and there labour laws. All of North America has been losing the standard of living with that thinking.

If you wanna get in the union, know someone.

Prevailing wages are not entirely "your money".

Could you make a vid teaching how to locate sewer lines I’ve been trying to learn at work but people keep hating on me?

The problem with my local union is i need NEED to be home every night i dont have a problem working 15 hours a day but i have 4 kids i gotta be a dad for so my local union does all their work very far away from home and i dont have time for that

Was operating for a private company went union and had a horrible time. Specifically politics but honestly most importantly these “journeyman” operators were only skilled on a piece of equipment or two they had trouble coming across new experiences and the apprentices some had three years and couldn’t switch a bucket… it tainted my experience. That said right now plumbing I love it for a private company

Union 142. Biggest flaw is I didn’t have a choice on plumbing or pipe fitting. I want to be a plumber but they assigned me to the pipe fitting side. Will be like that for the first couple years…

Been non union for 8 years and union 7 years. Biggest difference is non union shop will pay you competitive wage to begin with but couple years passes by and you fall behind because no scheduled raises then before u know it its 3 4 5 years passes by and you realize your buddy at union doing same work and making 25k more than you do so you uncomfortably demand a raise or threat to quit they sit down and give you a raise 4-8k raise but not nearly 25k raise because instead of gradually giving raises throughout the year like union does. Company is never financially ready to give one tremendous raise. Then in 10 years you realize you making half of what union worker makes. Also when you start making decent money watch the co workers who are content with being underpaid get better jobs than you because they make more money for the company. I also know billing for both non union and union shops there is no difference in labor rates and mark up prices. Per every billable hour union boss keeps about 25-30% and non union boss 60-65%

Retired vet moving to Texas in 3 months. Love working with tools and out doors. How can I find an apprentice job with a union?

Was a union sheetmetal worker...Worked on Gov job back in the late 80's the nice thing was making 27.50 an hour at 19 to 20 yrs old good times. Also did a lot of Hospital work in those sub floors fitting duct work downside was back problems after 10 hour days bent half over lol.

4th Year Apprentice UA 469- Best thing for me is plethora of training opportunities from the apprenticeship

I'm applying to become an apprentice with my local union and they said the starting pay is 18 an hr then 36 an hr with benefits. Don't really understand the pay scale. Do I make 18 an hr or 36?

Union, journeyman plumber. The structure is the best part of the UA in my option. The employee hand book for instance.

You got the the name wrong the UA is the fitters and welders union. Plumbers aren't looked at as humans in most locals.

I'm in the union and I'll comment on your wage argument. The costs wouldn't be so high if the businesses didn't try to profit almost 50% off of jobs. When your bosses are parking nice boats and cars at the shop for storage you know they are making money. We don't get pto, holiday pay or any type of payed time off. It's like the non union side. They are bidding jobs at 30 to 50% so it's the employer bids raising the cost not how much we make.

Steamfitter local 118, teaching is great and the expectation of doing things the right way in my opinion is the best

I'll gladly pay dues to have somebody helping me find work.

7:00 " You're doing too good of a job" and you've seen layoffs happen after that was the case??? Please elaborate!;)

What does a Journeymen Plumber in TX make per hour? I want to move to TX but in Chicago were at 52 an hour.

Ibew Local 606. NUMBER one Thing is Safety! Noone will ever Force you to do something unsafe! i dont know how many times ive heard non-union electricians be told Get it done or i will find someone else who will... ya know what i mean.. ladders on lifts cause its not tall enough standing on top of ladders ect..

In South Jersey we call people who came up in an open shop then turn Union a clear in

do any other U.A locals offer piece work or is it just local 46

Idk where your located but it’s def a big difference in pay for union vs non union

Im making 86 dollars an hour average per job over in FL as a plumber no union... But mobed up. Never thought I would be making money like this.

I'm trying to join the UA union (3rd year non-union) apprentice... but every one says work isn't stable and I'll be sol... idk what to do about this crap and currently kinda unhappy with my current sercumstance

How do you get into the plumbers union if you’re already in the trade ?

Union Sheet Worker 20 yrs. Not active because I changed careers. Retirement for sure. Even without my 30 in and I'm not active i can look forward to a pretty decent portion of my pension.

Wow Roger you nailed this one right on brotha I couldn’t agree more

I live around the block from the union hall 3 times I applied and was denied. I scored 98 on the test, have no drink, drugs, gambling or woman problems. I had been in the trade for years, and I was really impressed by the shop and wanted to make a career there "You're not what we're looking for'. On the way out, I was told to consider hiring guys from the hall ( I am licensed with my own business ) How does one respond to that ? I have a few students that are members, and sometimes I think the erasers are smarter than them. I'm still pro union, but I'm convinced run by dopes.

I am a low voltage technician. I have been on a couple of different job sites. From what I have seen, the Sparky's are lazy. A few years back I did try to join the IBEW (sparky). Of course, on the low-voltage side. I did what I was instructed which is to get statement from Social Security, and I haven't heard anything since even though I did call several times to try to find out what the status was. In my opinion, and from what I have seen, some Union laborers are lazy.

Can you do some videos on how to fix water heaters and how to fix a faucets

i tryed plumber quite a few times more plumbers i worked with pretty much told grab a hammer and nail and go to work....instand of teaching or training ..so im starting to think if ya wanna lesrn the trade union is probably the way to go

Thank you for the information

I have been in a union for 28 years, different trade from yours. A good employer doesn't need a union to do right by their employees. With a bad employer, the union protects the workers. Same thing for small vs. large companies. A small company can deal justly with employees, a larger company usually needs some buffer between the employer and employees. I couldn't do my job without the union backing. (Collective bargaining is very useful for a company with 2,500 employees.) I have worked jobs (outside my trade) without union backing and was often annoyed at how much they could get away with.