Check out Our new Project FGC Storyteller - www.youtube.com/@fgcstoryteller & My personal SC2 Channel - www.youtube.com/@Gaming_Essays Timecodes: 00:00 Things that all RTS struggle with 00:59 Mechanics 02:31 Time-to-kill & Battle duration 03:20 Maps and landscape
What I"m hearing is that, partly, with tabs and whatnot, they've returned to the Command and Conquer style base/unit production: On giant tab for buildings (with hotkey) and one giant tab for units (with hotkeys). Not doing a 'new' thing but an older alternative, that still works.
For someone who loved WC3 and got into SC2 a little late in the game, but grew tired of it, I'm loving the competitiveness of Stormgate. It's nice to be able to tech and see units and upgrades that can deal with someone who just masses 50 of a single unit and hopes to win with that. I've found in many, if not all of the games I've won, I end up with a unit composition of 3-4 and I continue to adapt as I see what my enemy is massing. Early bio masses are still tough to take out and require fast teching
Definitely. I also ranked the games i played in terms of game lengths AoE2/AoE4 - Red Alert 3 - Warcraft 3 - Company of Heroes - Stormgate - Starcraft 2
I would guess it's because the units come out directly out of barracks, meaning that if you have barracks in 2 different corners of the map, it's likely very important where the marine will pop out. Whereas with Warp Gates, it doesn't matter so much; the unit will appear where you choose anyway.
it is, you can't warp all marines into the opposite side with a medivac the droppods with marines in them of the campaign would be absolutely broken in balance
The pathing in SG is not bad. But SC2 did one thing horribly, where units would clump up to an insane degree. Not only did it look weird at times, but splash damage was monstrously powerful because of this. It wasn't nearly as powerful in SC1 where units didn't really clump up.
@@Leonhart_93 What are you even saying. The pathing in Stormgate is absolutely abysmal. It tries to mimic SC2's pathing where units clump up but the units then have a stroke when trying to pass through tight areas or if you direct them around terrain they will legit just start dancing in circles because the pathing ai is so bad.
@@YuYuYuna_ I played every RTS out there. SG has one of the best pathing there are. It's probably better than even Aoe2 DE which is the most popular RTS currently.
Playing sc2, I could get to diamond with good macro, but my micro was always what let me down. I just could never get past switching micro managing different units, no matter how hard I practiced
RTSs need to get their shit straight for some reason some ppl think micro (stutterstepping/kiting) is cool because its so mechanically demanding and their mothers and sisters cant do it but usually ppl who play strategy games want to play them (u guessed it) by addressing them strategically (or at least tactically), the micro/reaction speed part should be of little importance
@@TheChosenOne462well u r not wrong in the sense that "busy work" is a bit potato starcraft etc intentionally make busy work tedious/unautomatized so that the player has to cut corners on the micro scale to not fall behind of the macro scale (sometimes) what u want is probably still to make the decisions on a macro scale, but not have them so annoying/tedious to do decision making is what makes for a good strategy game, and not if someone is capcable of athletically do what they think is optimal (micro) or be bothered by uninspired micro work (like managing worker or queuing up more troops)
i think you dont even understand the fact there are subgenres within every genre. take an rts like BAR for example where micro is completly nonexistent because its pure big army battle fiesta and compare it to lets say wc3. they are BOTH rts games, but they target a complete different audience with an completly different game design. you cant. ''the micro/reaction speed part should be of little importance'' i am not sure you even played an rts in your life besides that. you know.. you have that... its called SINGLE PLAYER GAME.
Same error like most RTS did which are no longer around: Fixation on the small group of esport players and the big audience which watches until it is lame. Brood War besides is still around. It is a very balanced game with mechanics that work well together. Pathfinding for example and one hit loose your whole army is not much of a problem when you just control 12 units and not all. So a mayor "bug" of this old game in truth is a feature. Age of Empires is still around too. Also not because it was made for tournaments but for casual players. The ones coming home after work and just enjoy a little match with/against friends. These are the ones which go to work and hell that's why have the money. So local multiplayer should still be a thing. And entertaining AddOn single player campaigns. Otherwise it will be just one more game which was....
@@GreenZergIt's totally a subjective statement but not impossible at all. You can see a game you haven't played and be excited about it and want to play it (or not at all)
@@GreenZerg Not impossible at all. They don't need to play this game to know it is boring as shit and has nothing compelling or exciting about it. I'm sure you've heard the phrase "first impressions are everything" and unlike with people you absolutely can judge 99% of video games by their " book covers" aka their game trailers and gameplay. If you have been playing games for more than a few years you know very well what types of games you enjoy and I can look at just about any game's gameplay trailer and tell you if I would enjoy that game or not. Stormgate is unimaginative low effort shlop. From the style and theme of the races down to the units, their mechanics and their sound effects and how the game visually looks it is knockoff SC2 through and through. Vanguard is knockoff Terran, Infernals are knockoff Zerg, and Celestials are knockoff Protoss.
@@YuYuYuna_ I agree first impressions are important as people will be out off. But I'm sure your also heard 'don't judge a book by it's cover'. The original comment is saying they played it too safe but he can't be referring to anything but the visuals as that's all you can see in the trailer. Lots of the units and the unit interactions are very interesting in my opinion, many of which I don't think are 'safe' at all and are quite big changes to how sc2 and sc1 played
I forced myself to play 10 games and gave up. it's such a miserable game, really overhyped. Extremely boring units, and what a cluster of balls, the time to kill really makes it even worse and highlighting just how much of a slog the engagements are.
So far I have to agree, I hate the style of everything, maps, building and units, with few exceptions. The game itself is boring and doesn't even remotely come close to SC2. I hope I'll be proven wrong, but I don't have high hopes, also it seems to me that devs aren't particularly listening to the feedback
Hey i am WC3 and little bit of AOE and CnC enjoyer since back in the old days played as kid, i like the effort of new RTS game, I am just used to highly visible healthbars and not that big of a army to manage and also having a HERO with items and lvling up that is what is missing for me.
The maps are any RTS' strength and weakness. The moment I see mapmakers stretching impassable terrain to discourage unit movement, "perch" areas just for Overlords to scout, it means the map is already favoring one race over the other. When maps make it so that liberators can't be used effectively, siege tanks can't fire over cliffs, lots of open spaces for easy engagement, human bias has a very heavy hand on dictating the outcome of games.
To make RTS more relaxing, let the game auto macro aspects as toggles. Examples: Auto max workers on mines Auto build selected unit when available. Auto upgrades at time stamp/resource availability if unable at stamp.
There is a balance with these features, they also want it to be the next esports, not just a total casual fest. They did made some things easier, it's good enough I would say.
No no and no. I'm sorry but RTS games are not meant to be kick back on the couch and bust out the controller games. They are inherently very competitive games. They are games about resource collecting and economy management. If you cannot do those things then RTS games are not for you. If I want to play a cozy relaxing game I will play Stardew Valley or some sandbox game where I can automate production. In an RTS you are supposed to be making decisions in real time hence real time strategy. Dumbing down core mechanics and aspects is how you kill your RTS.
@@YuYuYuna_ You cannot market a game with that, it will only have a handful of players. No developer wants that, they want a LOT of players preferably, some of which will also be competitive.
StormGate indeed made a lot of cool features, but for me this game is boring. It's OK to play, but so boring to watch. Also the artstyle is awful, for me it looks like a mobile game. Well, I had a lot of expectations, I wanted SG to be SC2 successor, unfortunately it doesn't look like it. I came back play SC2, because I think it's still going to be the biggest RTS in the world in terms of player base and esports. Anyway, I wish good luck to SG.
Honestly if you ask me the real true "successor" to SC2 currently being worked on is Zero Space. I strongly recommend checking that game out. It has a very crisp and clean aesthetic just like Starcraft 2 and the battles look exciting and intense just like Starcraft 2. Stormgate just isn't it.
Stormgate feels good to play, but boring to watch. Starcraft 2 feels good to watch, but annoying to play. That's my takeaways from both games. The faster paced nature of SC2 makes high level games extremely fun to watch, especially in TvZ where you could see actions happening constantly across multiple points in the map. In Stormgate it's not unusual for fights to last for a while before you can even tell who's having the advantage, and because we don't have game winning units that can singlehandedly win a fight like Corruptors or Banelings, but that also means you don't feel as much tension during the fight. Marine spltting a Corruptor shot or sniping Banelings before they hit is intense to watch, while a huge hit that wipes out a bunch of units is usually a pretty hyped up moment
Massively disagree. Stormgate is boring as fuck to watch and to play. I genuinely don't get how people can play more than 20-30 games of stormgate and not just start to realize they are playing a budget knockoff Starcraft 2 and I don't mean lightly. Every aspect of Stormgate from the aesthetics of the races to units to the resources you farm are all low effort "legally distinct" versions of their SC2 counterparts. There are two resources used to make units and they each spawn at every base --- literally minerals and gas from SC2. The Vanguard are literally budget Terran, the Infernals are literally budget Zerg and the Celestials are literally budget Protoss. The Exo is one of the best examples of this. It both looks and functions exactly like a marine does in SC2 but with a slightly different method of how it gains its version of "stimpack" for the marine in SC2. Instead of it being an ability you have to attack something and then you get a buff for a brief period of time. Same exact mechanic, just legally distinct with as little effort as possible. Unit is a space soldier in blue armor, same as Terran's marine. They did the bare minimum with this game and it shows all the way to the graphical fidelity of the game itself. On max graphics the game looks worse than Starcraft 2 does on low. It looks worse than Starcraft 2 did in fucking alpha. Hell I'll even go further and say it looks worse than Starcraft Brood War because at least that game has a cohesive art style. Stormgate looks like some Chinese developer wanted to make knockoff Starcraft 2 without getting sued.
I wouldn’t give stormgate too much credit for the global hot key system. It’s definitely used by other I know AOE4 uses it. I’m very glad other rts are adapting to it
I agree that Stormgate did a great job with hotkeys, especially in using grid style hotkeys while still keeping attack move on A. Great summary, definitely looking forward to more from Stormgate!
I agree on the unit production part, its really an innovative way to pull in new players who arent used to RTS. I think its very smooth with Stormgate, that all units are under 1 tab and the more structures you build that create units, are all automaticly assigned into that unit tab. The first time i played it, i noticed it and i was blown away with it. But i also think the game is very smooth and yes, its a bit slower then SC 2 but not very much i would argue and i think its right in the sweetspot between Warcraft 3 and SC 2 in terms of game speed. I also agree that the new additions they added to maps, certainly allows more room for counterplay and surprise attacks. I am honestly really amazed what they have done the past year with Stormgate, the game is in a really good state and sure their are a lot of things to be improved. But so far i find it a very promising game.
C&C4 "one step in the wrong direction" That step was throwing away the whole game and making some completely unrecognisable rubbish, so it was a pretty big step
It’s funny to me to hear criticism of Brood War’s pathfinding. Brood War was a HUGE improvement over Warcraft 2. HUGE. Sure, games improve over time, but I was very happy with BW pathfinding.
Stormgate is amazing so far BUT the only rts i think has the potential to overcome sc2 by far is zero space. Game is in alpha 2 and is S I C K ! Unit pathing unit variety strategic depth animations combat system.
I was just replying to another comment about Zero Space. That game genuinely looks like the highest quality production RTS being made right now. It looks (and I bet feels) like the same gameplay and battle pacing of Starcraft 2. The maps and the graphics look gorgeous and the races so far from what we've seen genuinely look unique to Zero Space unlike Stormgate. Stormgate's races in every regard look like budget knockoff versions of Terran Protoss and Zerg from SC2.
I was very excited about this game, having sponsored it early on, but sadly I’ve already lost interest. I will give it another shot when fully released. But right now, game is not for me. Wishing the Stormgate team best of luck!
Lol stormgate will never be better than starcraft. The game looks washed and fugly. Battles are so hard to follow since all units look the same. It's stale as hell regardless of how many youtubers try to suck it off.
My personal thoughts on the game are very similar to yours. Stormgate had nailed it as to how the game feels and plays out, to me üt feels like the gsme just needs to be fleshed out.
As much I wan to like storm gate. I really don't like the style and texture of it. It's like Sc2 back in alpha. Looks so rubber. Even wc3 looks better than this.
@@mrnoblemonkey8401 Heard the "but its beta" excuse like 100 times and 99 out of that 100-game ended up releasing exactly as it was on beta. Better to criticize graphics now at least there is slight chance that devs take notice.
Good thing that the devs recently addressed this by saying the "art style" is nowhere near complete. Because they want to design maps and get balance right first, before they finalize the maps and have to make changes due to balance.
The creep camps and mechanics related to them are super-good idea. Gives you something to do with your combat units, beside just attacking your enemy base.
StarCraft 1 and 2 always stood out in the RTS landscape for one thing above all others: extremely conservative design. StormGate is looking a lot like an SC3 would have. Sadly it doesn't look like it's going to do much to solve the issue of the game being too hard for most people to control. SC turned being hard to control into a virtue, but that isn't going to cut it in the current gaming landscape any more.
Stormgate doesn't look nearly as good as SC2, so how could it look like SC3 would have? Also, Stormgate is far more conservative/boring with their unit design, races, maps, etc. It's like all their creative decisions were made by a committee of software developers.
I don't see myself playing Stormgate... as you said in the LATE GAME in SC2 sometimes the players don't want to risk their armies, making it a stale game, but in Stormgate the damage is not huge in a second so the battles develop better, making it a slower game from the start, which could lead to people getting bored as well. I hope the game has an incredible good and memorable campaign, I barely remembered SC1 when played SC2 but the first thing I did was the Campaign and the story hooked me and made me love the Starcarft World, which later translated in me playing ladder for years. Also there is an incredibly interesting video about RTS, I don't know if you watched it but you should ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XehNK7UpZsc.html
Actually, my experience with stormgate was that it felt *more* engaging and less boring than sc2, as even if your opponent is camping you got stuff to do on the map.
nice content, but feels to me this is more of the perspective of a casual player and not a esports player. Saying that maps dont really matter that much in sc2 can only come from someone who has not played at a higher level as it is so crucial of every part of the game.
I've been a GM zerg on EU since 2016. It's not that they don't matter, the impact is just less in comparison with Stormgate and some other RTS games. I might be wrong, but I think casual players don't feel the map significance in SC2 as much as they would in Stormgate. My highest peak in SC2 was around 6400 mmr, in SG I was TOP 100 during open beta, and while I could comfortably play the same BOs in SC2 on almost every map, it was a pain (and fun) to adjust to each map in SG. Again, that's just my perspective
@@EsportsStoryteller I mean I was a GM protoss on NA towards the end of HotS and I barely feel like maps matter at all in Stormgate. The camps and their buffs/benefits feel like a complete afterthought for the devs in an attempt to make the game appear unique and different from SC2. I'm not saying you can't have your opinion or trashing on you for it but personally when I was playing SC2 I always remember every time there was a ladder reset and new maps were added I would go into customs and test the new maps and play a few games on them in ranked to see if I feel those maps are favored towards any race. Stormgate I've legit felt like the differences between maps bares little significance.
Unfortunately correct. Stormgate doesn’t do a single thing better than SC2 and it’s nearly 2 decades later. People say “just give them time, SC2 had years and years of refinement” The issue is they didn’t learn from any of that refinement and are starting from the beginning. If this game were to survive development, which it won’t because they are out of money and the game currently sucks, within 2 years, they would be forced to speed everything up from TTK to movement to pacing. A lesson that was learned in SC2.
@@bartonfile6569 I mean I agree with most of this but honestly if you ask me Stormgate's biggest issues are from a race and unit design perspective than anything else. Vanguard both looks and plays like a worse unfun version of Terran in SC2. Same thing for Infernals being a worse Zerg and Celestials being a worse Protoss. The units just are not exciting and it from top to bottom. Their models are awful and uninteresting, their mechanics are in many cases just worse versions of SC2 mechanics (the Exo is literally SC2 marine with stimpack but instead of it being an ability you activate it is a passive proc when you attack) and the overall visual aesthetic/theme of the races are just bad. I hate to be so negative about it but when I look and play Vanguard I'm just thinking to myself "man I wish I was playing Terran in SC2" Same thing for Celestials "wish I was Protoss," same thing for Infernals "wish I was Zerg." SC2 nailed their race designs from both a gameplay/feel perspective to the visual aesthetics/theme of each race. When I play SC2 I dabble in every race from time to time but usually stick to Protoss/Terran because they all are just really cool and when you see them they make you excited to play them. When I watch a Vanguard player in Stormgate or an Infernal player or Celestial player I don't see their gameplay and think "holy shit these units and this race look so fun to play, I want to try/play that" I'm not a Zerg player in SC2 at all but I'll still play a game or two from time to time just because I find making big swarms of units all at once fun and the race looks like a primal ancient alien creature race. Infernals look like a chinese knockoff toy. Game just doesn't look fun or interesting both visually, thematically and gameplay wise.
Some real losers in the comments. Ironically, they are proving the exact premise of this video. There are some real, actual losers in RTS and other genres that aren't even actually good, just tunnel-visioned and pretentious.
if all these macro advantages make you happy then you are a noob...this game friendly mechanics make the game so much easier and noob friendly...hate every word you said in this video.
I've been a GM zerg since 2016... Those things are not so much for top level players but for more casual players who need easier access for a large audience to jump on it and make it successful. It's a big problem for RTS genre that needs to be tackled, otherwise it'll be difficult to attract and maintain new players
The reality is content creators like this are looking for an “in” with FGS. They aren’t going to get that “in” by being honest about the game. By the time the game fails due to bad ideas and no one being honest, being “in” with FGS will mean nothing lol.
@@bartonfile6569 We'll have a big review when the game comes out. This video just highlights some of the cool esports features in Stormgate. It doesn't mean the game has no drawbacks
Guys why do you have to be hating so much, as the guy said this is for new players to get into rts, the genre won’t survive with its current player base, because it has fallen behind from other genres such as fps. As a medium skill player I appreciate this addition, I have played sc2 for like 5myears and I’m decent, but this still helps, I don’t see the big issue and just using the blanket statement of everything you said in this vid was bad is not a constructive argument
APM cause tons of injuries. You can create strategic gameplay with much less APM. It's a great decision in that sense. It doesn't mean that the game will be easy.
This is probably the best advertisement for stormgate i have seen. I must say i was a bit put off it, but nice to know what's actually better rather than just look and see weird uncanny valley sc2 unit ripoffs.
