Love him hate him, you can't deny that Rhaegar his one of the most influential characters in ASOIAF. Guy was a walking enigma, for one hand almost everyone puts him on a pedestal and idealize him but he also committed some hideous and idiotic actions like abandoning his family to groomed a teenager into having his prophesy baby all while being partially responsable for his family's demise
It's fucked up, but Rhaegar had to abandon his family and have a prophecy child with Lyana. It was to save the world. Rhaegar had visions of the future since childhood. He saw the Long Night and the White Walkers and his demise. Even as a child, people who knew him always said he had a sense of Doom to him. He got with Lyana Stark to give birth to Azhor Ahai. Jon Snow is A Song Of Ice and Fire. Fire from his father and Ice from his mother. He is needed to save humanity from the Winter Apocalypse. All the war that Rhaegar started had a purpose and he knew he to be killed himself. It all had a greater purpose of saving everything that lives on Earth
@Darius-_ Jon Snow is the child. He is literally the Song Of Ice and Fire. Fire from his father. Ice from his mother. The Azhor Ahai needed to save the world from the Winter Apocalypse.
Yeah the guy who knighted the mountain and then abandoned a war he started to impregnate a 15 year old girl he abandoned his wife to groom would have made an amazing king.
@@mappingshaman5280 Anyone average would have been better than the Mad King, but that makes the bar too low. Rhaegar offended Three Kingdoms (Dorne,North and Stormlands) before even taking the Crown.
Jon would have made a great king. He is the rightful King after all. Plus if he was raised to be Royal, with diplomatic training, he would be perfect. If the people upsurped Aerys and placed Rhaegar on the Throne, they would have been MUCH better off. Not to mention, the Starks would still be in his life as his mother was Lyanna. Remember his marriage to Elia was annulled. Not to mention, Lyanna may not have died in birth if she had proper doctors with her. It’s possible of course that she still could have bled out, but perhaps Royal doctors watching the birth could have saved her. Jon would be the perfect blend of Targaryen and Stark. Raised to take the throne upon his father’s death and prepared whenever that came.
Rhaegar only appears in the book as a phantom of a dream or prophecy but I bet Jon was a mirror of Rhaegar's personality. Always brooding about his upbringing, solemn and beautifully talented.
I agree. I also think it is likely that Elia wanted to get her children away from the Game of Thrones, & he actually did fall for Lyanna (especially the lengths she went to in order to save Howland).
Jon is not in any way beautifully talented in the books though, that's a big part of his story he was never as good as Robb at anything but sword fighting and even then he's above average at best, not incredible, so he's constantly training but can't get to the level of someone like the half-hand or even Tormund
I think rhaegar is purposely described sorta like a myth of a man with hundreds of different perspectives so no one really knew him it adds depth to character a you never see or hear from even though no matter what he’s described as basically perfect to them atleast.
So many people foolishly claim that downfall of Targaryens was a Rhaegar's fault, completely ignoring the fact that it was Aerys fault instead (and result of degradation of dragons), and that Rebellion would happen anyway even without Rhaegar's love towards Lyanna Stark - just some different small event would ignite it.
@@hakasims At the very least that would be an issue, decided by trials and diplomatic maneuvers, instead of giant war with the goal to crush all of the Targaryens. Yes, that would be a grand scandal - but there were lots of such scandals in history of Targaryens. To solve the whole issue, Aerys for example could have related on the fact that Aegon the Conqueror had two wives, and suggest such solution, while also find a way to heavily placate both Starks and Martells (more titles, land, some other offers) to persuade them to accept such decision. So, in unorthodox way and not easily, but all such issues are solvable in fully diplomatic ways - if Aerys was indeed respected and feared king. While what we had due to insanity of Aerys and dissapearance of dragons was a powder ked, which was going to explode at any tiniest spark - Rhaegar became that spark, but it could have been any other spark and Westeros would still explode.
@@hakasimsI'm not saying I disagree with you, but what you said did make me think.... Isn't kidnapping a Stark girl and forcing them to marry into the royal family basically what King Robert did? Robert was foolish and he didn't intend anything horrible when he arranged that, even though he did already dislike his son and knew what his son was at that point, but one of the first things Ned says to Cat is that he can't refuse Robert, Even if being the hand is presented as a choice and a gift, even if the royal marriage is presented as a choice and a gift. He has no choice, and he doesn't want his daughter married to that horrible little weasel. So we got another big massive war, not for Sansa exactly but It does really make me think looking back on it. Because your argument is the crown can't offend dorne, and they can't offend the starks in regard to the Rhegar situation, but if we look at what King Robert, a very unscary king is able to do to the great houses just by saying, hey I want that one! The redheaded one! For my son! Did the targaryens really have anything to fear from upsetting either dorne or the Starks at that point? It's fun to think about, and honestly it just makes me want season 2 of House of the Dragon even more! XD
@@thedreamscripter4002having two wives would offend the faith of the seven, would they have to be bribed too ? what does all this bribing do to the position of power of the crown ?how much weaker does the targs look, where would you even find more land to give in westeros without angering someone else cause all land there is already owned by a lord.
@@hakasims He wasn't blameless, but no, kingdom won't wait. The fact that Rhaegar has stolen Lyanna offended Robert Baratheon most of all, but it wasn't something insulting for any other house except for Starks. It hasn't anyhow said that Rhaegar is "a bad king" - yes, that kidnapping was a very eccentric action and based on emotions, but the thing is everyone understood that (Rhaegar is young and stupid yet, hormones are playing and etc.) and could have just solve it like any other diplomatic scandal. The war has started because by that point already everyone wanted to go on war against Aerys, but were to afraid to start - but once Robert, infuriated by Rhaegar's actions (simply because Robert himself was in love with Lyanna), has started the rebellion, everyone else followed, because they already wanted it. It would have happened same way if someone else, not Robert, would start a rebellion - and considering madness of Aerys there were plenty of opportunities for him to cause a rebellion.
And thanks to him, Visery grow up poor, in the cold and not having enough to eat. It's not difficult for him to be taller than his younger brother. Lol
@@Mcherri Nah, realistically it's all Rhaegar's fault. I feel like without the Lyanna stuff, they probably would have just deposed Aerys and enthroned Rhaegar.
It's true, in fact nearly all the actors casted as Targaryens are pretty fugly, Harry Lloyd is a handsome dude, not breathtaking but ok, Emilia was a pretty good choice but..the rest?? Lol no
@@fightingmedialounge519 He wasn't really, he's average, he's not repelling most but he's not spellbinding anyone, nowhere near a heartthrob, whereas Rhaegar REALLY ought to have been gracing GQ Magazines etc, no?
@@submissivelover He might not be your type, but the actor is a notably attractive person people comment on looks wise outside of this Fandom. I doubt you think every magazine model is attractive, so it's unlikely they were ever going to choose an actor fans thought was pretty enough. People think cersei and danereys weren't pretty enough in the show simply because they weren't the fictitiously exaggerated beauties like in the books.
@@fightingmedialounge519 No one is lauding Wilf's looks, he's not notably attractive anywhere, even his filmography isn't suggestive of hunks, love interests, heroes or attractive leading men.....and no I might not be attracted to every magazine model but I wouldn't deny that nearly all of them are conventionally attractive... Colin Ferrell? Not my type but I wouldn't deny he checks plenty of boxes in western ideals of attractiveness and beauty, same with Chris Pratt, definitely not into it but I can't deny he's well into what most would consider attractive....Wilf isn't
People forget that Rhaegar is one of the few characters that "knows" A LOT: about the profecies, the White Walkers, the myths and history. He is(was) a major player just like Bloodraven.
eh... ok melisandre knows a lot too. Was still more wrong than that she was right. also does not change that his "plans" ruined his house and made the fullfillment of the prophecy more complicated. Except you want to say that killing thousands and ruining his family just so daenerys( his unborn sister) would awake the dragons was his plan. In that case great plan
@@CorvoThanHe would have been the king .He could have played a far bigger role than whatever Melisandre could have ever done .He could have armed the watch and restrengthened the watch the moment he learned of reports about the others . Though there would undoubtedly be a lot of tension within the realm due to the recent rebellion and i for one don't think rhaegar could afford to be too much merciful to the rebel lords if he doesn't want to come across a weak king which is most important for him to be the king .Houses like Tully and Baratheon who owe everything to House Targaryen but still nonetheless rebelled against them would be stripped of their lord-paramountcy ,lands ,titles and castles .House Baratheon would have been outright exterminated as they were a cadet branch of house targaryen at the time and as rebellious cadet branches are always treated with nothing but impunity with house stark as an example utterly annihilated a rebellious cadet branch in the past . House Tully would have utterly lost its great house status and if it still refused to bend the knee to the crown all of their lands and riverrun would be given to other loyalist houses like the Frey's or the Darrys . Housee like Stark and Arryn would have been given leniency with ned and jon arryn mayhaps retaining their lord-ship in exchange for a bunch of important political hostages from the north and the vale .In that way rhaegar's image would have been of that of a strong but just king .Melisandre cannot play as much a big role in the war as rhaegar could have for the dawn is because at the end of the day rhaegar would have bee the king and lord over a united westoros however much dissent there may be ,it wouldn't anywhere near be the amount that was after Robert's Rebellion in the the original timeline and Stannis as you can see is on the losing side of the war .He will die one way or the other in the north and faegon or dany will reclaim the iron throne
@@CorvoThanhe didnt have much of a choice on one perspective. Allow hundreds of thousands to die for his actions or let all the humanity die. Choice is obvious that why he was always sad
@@andrewyakovlev9710 that is a pretty self-centered point view for rhaegar. He was totally convinced that he understod the prophecy. Lets ignore for a moment that white walkers are real and could or could not fit the criteria of the prophecy. Then all you have is a self-important idiot that believes just because his ancestor had a special dream or his family used to ride dragons they are going to birth the hero that would save the world. In the real world we would call such a person a lunatic and despite the magic in planetos grr martin tries to create a realistic world. By the way... A lot of factions in asoiaf are having similar ideas, infact (when we go after the first men legend) the last hero (obviously a first men) defeated the others and will return to beat them again. And dont even let me start with what the people in essos believe. The point is that Rhaegar took a prophecy that existed in thousend of different versions over the world, decided without proof or anything that it was real, that the threath would appear soon and that his son was -because of his special dragon-blood- chosen to save the world. Then he of cause did not think "Hmmm, a united and strong westeros (like aegon planed, the one with the dream which is the reason why rhaegar is doing what ever he is doing) is needed to battle the threath." and saw it instead as more important that his children were mirroring the conquering targaryen siblings. Which by the way ended with his family killed and exiled, the son he was convinced was the promised hero dead and the daugther he was so convinced to need born as a boy. Truly rhaegar was master mind, a true player of the game of thrones.
@@CorvoThanwell the books aren’t finished yet… so we do not have the complete story, but if Rhaegar had his own dragon dreams that would explain much of his actions. The first men, the prince that was promised and Azor Ahai prophecies all fit Jon Snow. So if Rhaegar had a dragon dream of this, then yes he would have needed to do what he did. Let’s not forget that Rhaegar was not wrong in believing in the prophecy. For Dany to get those dragons she would have needed to be in Essos to do it away from the comforts of the court. For Jon to be at the Wall and beyond in the center of the Others conflict he too would have needed to be away from the comforts and duty of the royal court. A dragon dream by Rhaegar could explain all of this and there are two more books yet to come. I believe that Rhaegar had a dragon dream and started to make moves towards this. That’s also without considering the Bloodraven’s meddlings.
Rhaegar looks a little bit like Griffith with an unparalleled beauty and a sinister mind. That would make Robert Guts... except Bobby B is nothing like Guts.
@@Emy-fv5nyfunnily enough he was obsessed with the prince that was promised hahaha and Robert wanted revenge above all else. and lyanna is a tomboy who gets stolen from guts/Robert hahahahaha
@@charzanboo9940He (or she) only speaks the truth. The wig was terrible: it was too frizzy and it wasn’t long enough. Rhaegar should have long hair like Aemond - but without the personality to go along with. The actor they got didn’t do a *bad* job but the guy had no presence. If you’re going to pick an actor to portray an iconic character but not give him any really dialogue then he has to stand out just by standing in one place. I never got the sense that we were watching a crown prince who was a future king.
Too much art makes him look masculine. He is essentially the prettiest character regardless of gender in the whole series. Some artists draw him to look like an older Dany and it works so much better
Rhaegar is described as smart but I don’t think he is smart. He is no near to be being smart. He hated his wife bc she failed at her 3rd childbrith and he was to obsessed with the whole prophecy. He fall in live with a 14 year old girl which was Robert Baratheons fiance and a stark lady. And HE AND LYANNA DISAPPEARED FOR MONTHS AND IT IS REALLY UNKNOWN THAT LYANNA LOVED HIM OR NOT. He left his wife Elia Martell and her children with a crazy king. He started the war against Stakrs and Baratheons and just came last time of it and her childrens and her wife died so cruel. They were only babys. He was the main reason why everything started. I kinda see Robert was right with that Rebellion shit. Only persons that I feel sory for is Elia Martell, her children and Daenerys. They all suffered so many things bc Rhaegar couldn’t keep his d!ck calm
Did she really running off though? She was said to be an adult version of Arya. Running off with a Married Prince Charming is not something Arya would do.
@@ucnguyenanh9414Then again, GRRM's characters are not archetypal and can be very nuanced; what Arya does has different reasons to it in comparison to her aunt. Also, Arya and Lyanna were put into VASTLY different situations before and during the books.
I have mixed feelings regarding rhaegar. They claim he's a great warrior that even defeated arthur dayne, the finest sword in the seven kingdoms. But gets pummeled to paste by Robert in the trident. They says he extremely intelligent, but stupidly gives fuel to a war that his crazy dad has been itching to start for long by vanishing with lyanna stark and refusing to provide any explanation whatsoever. They say he's honourable but shows up at the literal last minute of the war he started. That he's a good man, but abandons his wife and children, with his crazy dad with no protection. And for lyanna whom he supposedly loved, he left his kingsguard to kill any man who approached the tower, even if its her own brother. Just what are you on George?
George isnt on anything. George has made it clear that his characters are unreliable narrators. Just because most people in kings landing praise joffrey does not mean joffrey is actually a good person or good king, it just means they have their own opinions or agendas which can be incorrect or biased. The same is true of rhaegar.
i think Rhaegar being a great warrior but also losing to Robert are two things that could coexist. No matter how good you are, a murder hobo with a big hammer in the prime of his life still has a very good chance
@@turtleguyfannot to mention that while Rhaegar was a great knight, Robert was a great warrior. By the time they had their showdown, Robert had been at war for a good while. Experience was on his side.
@@evok3226 of couse! She was a big fan of him getting a second wife and potentialy a son that would contest her sons right for the throne. Because in the history of the iron throne that worked always so well
Rheagar should get alot more of the blame for the downfall of the targaryen he not only started the rebellion by in the eyes of her father and brother kidnapped the daughter of the lord of winterfell and warden of the north he then allowed the rebellion grow while ignoring all the death and destruction his actions caused whlie having a love affair with the woman he sentenced to death by choosing her to be the vessel for his prophecy baby
Rhaegar had the Madness he needed to father that child of prophecy and I believe never loved Lyanna but either did kidnap her or manipulated her and was a cold hearted psychopath
@@wolfvonisles4566 i agree if he cared at all he about her he wouldn't have done nothing while her father and brother were killed and her brother was sentenced to death for the crime of being a member of her family
I think it’s fair to place some level of blame on Rhaegar but I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s all his fault. Most of the characters acted irrationally in the situation. Rhaegar to some extent was acting out of his belief in a prophecy which seems to actually be true but misinterpreted on his end. Lyanna meanwhile obviously wasn’t wanting marry Robert as the guy already had a bastard you even see it in some of the later POV chapters with Ned in Agot. Plus it seems like this meeting or matching might have been influenced by outside forces anyways since they would’ve met at the tourney of Harrenhal. Where Howland Reed acts as a big catalyst as the guy had just rowed over from the Isle of Faces to attend gets bullied and inspires Lyanna to more than likely become the knight of the laughing tree and Aerys instructing Rhaegar to find him. Brandon while I think his actions are understandable he should’ve known better than to approach Aerys like that given his reputation even by that point. Hoster Tully even cautioned him against it. Chances are Benjen knew about the relationship but never mentioned it to Ned,Brandon,or Rickard. AND why of all times did the Starks just happen to decide to start seeking southern alliances? Aside from Cregan Stark this is the most a Stark has ever cared about what’s going on in the south since the times of Aegon’s conquest. I just have a hard time blaming any one party Stark,Baratheon,or Targaryen TO MUCH as imo a lot of what was happening was being influenced from outside forces whether it be the usual suspects like Bloodraven,Howland,the Maesters,and Varys.
@@jay-1800 while I don't completely dissagree that some of what happened like in the main story was being influenced by outside forces the actions and choices of the characters are their own you can use the example of cat's kidnapping of tyrion while her motivations may have been given to her by her sister,littlefinger and even ned she still ultimately chooses to do what she did which was essentially the act that started the war of the 5 kings While rhaegar may have been influenced by his belief in prophecy his desission to run away with lyana and then do nothing while his father and Robert bleed the realm was his own
I think people should read the books. Rhaegar is a mysterious character, so we can’t tell whether if he is selfish, good, or grey character based on the show or theories.
Helen of Troy 🤝Lyanna Stark: We started wars that ended a dynasty or a kingdom. Paris 🤝Rhaegar: Yes, we like to piss off people who were bethored/wedded to other people. Menelaus and Robert Baratheon will agree.
Except Helen never wanted to be kidnapped?? Or with Paris?? After the war, she returned to Menelaus and they had a happy marriage. Paris dies like a wimp.
@@arunakoyanbron8927 Well, their abduction (whether they wanted it or not) caused the conflicts that they become involved. Both faced the people they insulted and paid for it. The former by being humiliated in combat and died in a pathetic way and the other by a warhammer.
The Targaryens had a number of "if only kings" who died before their time, full of promise. Jaehaerys' sons Aemon and Baelon, Baelor Breakspear, and even kings like Viserys II (if only he'd lived longer, he might have been a second Conciliator..) While Rhaegar is certainly cast in the same mold, he feels a little small in comparison. Much more akin to the Prince of Dragonflies-a tragic, romantic and enigmatic figure beloved of singers and the commons. Still, anything would be better than his father, so he would have compared favorably in that regard.
He wasn't born in grief......he was born OUTSIDE of Summerhall under the stars.mingled with the shadows of the 'wildfire" as it burned all structures including the towers.......
The fact he was born DURING one of the most tragic moments in Targaryen history still weighed on him. A bunch of his family were burning to death for no reason. It's obviously not his fault. But history shows us that when bad things happen in Targ history, the kids take it SUPER personally. Aegon 3 was the mopiest mf cause his mom was a dragon snack in front of him and he thought his baby brother was dead for YEARS. I mean, reasonable, but still he was like 8 lol. What could a 8 y/o do against all that?
The more i know about lyana and rheagar, the less sense it makes for that he eloped with lyana and married her in secret. That arc simply doesn't make any sense for me.
Join the club, considering that his reasons for doing so are a mystery often discussed both inside and outside of his universe. In fact... lots of things about him and his motivations are for that matter
@@vigneshkr7072Lyanna was a 14 year old girl who was easily swayed by the idea of a knight in shining armour coming to rescue her from an arranged marriage. Rhaegar was at best a fool and at worse actively malicious
Liam Hemsworth should’ve played as Rhaegar while Henry Cavill could’ve played Robert Baratheon. That would’ve been an epic battle scene intro into the first season.
Basically no one knows who Rhaegar was really, besides maybe Barristen or Jamie, but even they didn't get the whole picture. Because others were closer and had hisnfull confidence.
Rhaegar single-handedly ended his family’s control of the Seven Kingdoms. He loses to Robert on the Trident and gets hammered, he gets his wife and children killed by leaving them behind with his insane father. He’s far from perfect
Prequel series about Ned stark and rhagar Targaryen called “a song of ice and fire” in the final season we say good bye to rhagar and hello to snow and the after math. ( l could see Ned taking comfort with baby snow next to a campfire as he learns ashara Dane commits suicide) It could possibly go as far as the Greyjoy rebellion.
Wise and honorable, yet was the direct cause of the civil war that tore the seven kingdoms apart . Granted his father put in a lot of work too but he really just said fuck the realm imma ditch my wife and go for this girl
Only both if we assume they eloped. The books have not clarified what actually happened there, that is only a show thing so far. In any case, Rhaegar is at fault anyways though.
@@maxi1ificationokay, but based on how she was described and the way she fended off three squires in defense of her father's bannerman, do you honestly think she would have allowed herself to be dragged off without a fight? Yeah, you could say Rhaegar manipulated her and seduced her with charm, but even then she still would have had to willing run off with him after that in order for it to have worked on her.
@@struggleskywalker1025she was 14 when they first met. It’s not difficult to tempt an unhappy teenage girl into a whirlwind romance. Rhaegar was 24 and had two children he willingly abandoned. He KNEW the consequences of running off with another man’s wife
Rhaegar is one of the worst villains the series has ever seen. Pretty much sentenced his wife and children to death as subjecting hundreds of thousands to war, all cause he wanted to bag a 14 year old
Everyone dissing Rhaegar because of his actions to be with another woman and abandon his wife and children. Its called love. Like the priest said in Last Kingdom. "Tis a powerful thing. Love gives a man strength, often at the cost of his own mind".
I believe multiple people could have been the Prince Who Was Promised. IMO if Rhaegar had lived to rule to the time in the book, it would have been him. With his loss, it fell to his son, Jon.
If only the books were finished before the show, we would have seen rhaegar's reasons behind his actions and everyone would have applauded him and loved him and maybe Jon would have continued the Targaryen bloodline. Pity it was not. 😢😢😢
How is he a mary sue? Mary sue's always win for unjustified reasons luke rey in the star wars sequels. Rhaegar literally got his chest smashed in by bobby b.
Until he became obsessed with the prophesy of the " Prince that was Promised", and initiated the events that would lead to his family's downfall and the destruction of the Iron Throne.
he is stupid, he let the reign end up weakening the 7 kingdoms to defend themselves in the long night, he created a cowardly bastard who was useless in the long night, but at least he was beautiful
@@struggleskywalker1025still, Rhaegar left his wife and true born children to die by sending his men to protect his teenage mistress and new bastard. He wasn’t a good man.
Mad king was a good king too... before he was captured and tortured for 6 months... after that he had paranoia and mental breakdown .started burning people... also he taught he'll become dragon after burning...dude was delusional too...
I think, Rhaegar will be used to show Jon's possibilities. By my theory, Jon will someday either see or hear of what his actual father did, whether he kidnapped Lyanna, seduced her or fell in love with her. How Rhaegar was obsessed with what he thought - maybe even wished - was his duty. Jon will probably face the choice of either doing what he perceives as his duty as a leader for the greater good (like Rhaegar at least thought he did) and what his actual duty as a decent person might be. 🤔
Noble and honorable My ass, that dragón entitled shit provoked a war that took the life of hundred if is not thousand of innocent people, and even was the responsable of the Greyjoy rebellion because of the death of Lord Quellon the only person in the iron isles that could restrain Balón and his brothers.
