As somebody who formerly worked in color science my subjective impression is that ARRI handles color rendering as you approach clipping a bit differently than some others. Basically they knowingly sacrifice some saturation in that region to in order to minimize the magnitude of the hue shift that happens when a channel saturates. Put another way, if the 8-bit RGB sensor coordinates are, say, (250, 128, 3) then a "textbook" approach might have you render that as a very vivid reddish-orange. The problem is that if you do so then your hue will inevitably shift yellow in a very obvious way if the scene subsequently becomes brighter such that the R channel saturates at 255 while G and B keep increasing. You have no way to know what R is "supposed to be" (highlight recovery is just a way of guessing), so you can't distinguish a brightening scene from a color that legitimately shifts towards yellow. What ARRI and some other makers do is to intentionally desaturate the rendered color as _any_ channel approaches clipping, such that the resulting rendering is more "stable" and less prone to wild hue shifts when clipping occurs. This mimics the behavior of color films (both slide and negative) which have "shoulders" in their response curves that cause a similar desaturation when overexposed. There's a LOT more to it than I can explain in a comment, but that's the gist of it. This is by no means unique to ARRI, but they have a distinctive approach to it. I'm surprised that ARRI LogC3 has a lower native ISO on these cameras than VLog, though. The way ARRI handles highlight roll-off generally requires more highlight DR (higher "native ISO") so there may be something going on here that I don't understand. Then again VLog already has a lot of highlight DR, so maybe it does make sense.
For most colorists, if you give them VLOG/SLOG3/CLOG2 they will immediately see a difference between ARRI LOGC3/R3D/BRAW. it’s very apparent. This upgrade is as much for your team in post as it is for your own pride in having a little ARRI badge on the gh7. (I want the badge too, it’s a cool badge :D). That being said… I would love Panasonic to bring this to the s5 line and the next s1h series as well. I’m sure it can be added in firmware. Those sensors can properly reach close to 15 stops of DR, and the “ARRI look” is always possible with phantom luts, color space transforms, or even converting to LOGC3 after recording externally to BRAW. C’mon Panasonic, give us internal BRAW next!
With respect to the FF caneras, I think the question isn't whether Panasonic can add it in firmware (the fact that they could enable it on the GH6 strongly suggests they can) but whether ARRI would be willing to license it for those cameras. Supporting the GH6/GH7 makes clear business sense to ARRI as a way of extending their ecosystem "down" to compact B/crash cams. The logic wrt the Panasonic FF cams makes less sense to me. As you point out they have a fair bit more DR, to the point where the might be seen as creating a line-logic challenge for the Mini LF. I see that you mentioned BRAW a couple times... are you a fellow GH6 + VideoAssist user?
@@patrickchase5614 s5ii user! Waiting to upgrade to the BM assist. I blew my yearly budget on a full set of Zeiss classics “by accident” Yes I hear what you’re saying, but the arri Alexa is more than just a sensor. It has the internal raw, it has the SDI outputs and form factor for professional productions, and more importantly it’s insured to work with support from arri until the thing literally falls apart. I shoot hybrid because it’s my work, but my friends rent arri because it’s much more than just a camera. There’s a prestige to it. Arri logC inside the s5ii will never have that “prestige” More importantly, the s5ii can convert to LogC3 from BRAW. it’s just about convenience at this point.
@@CartyCantDance Yup, but the question is whether ARRI sees it that way. I agree with you that they should be viewing all of the Panasonic bodies (including FF) as "gateway drugs" to the ARRI ecosystem. I've never used S5II but I use a GH6 with the VideoAssist 12G. It's rock-solid for me, including in open-gate (5.8K x 4.3K) mode.
@@patrickchase5614 cool we totally agree then. I believe the lumix cameras would be a great gateway into the arri system. Most aspiring film makers either go the lumix or Blackmagic route. Can’t wait for 6k 12 bit open gate. Won’t even bother with LogC at that point because Davinci Wide Gamut is much more robust anyways.
I'd be quite interested to see a visual comparison of how this would compare to a CST from V-log In Resolve. Or perhaps some of the paid LUTs/Powergrades like GHAlex.
I use an arri log c kind of workflow with Cinematch because I use different camera system...and convert everything to arri log c because it looks the best....
i downloaded the LUTs and stuck them into Resolve im not trying to match any cameras on high end productions i will just use them like i use any other LUT if the look good so be it i may load a few on the camera too i dont need Arri log VLog works for me i can spend that 200 dollar on something else thanks for the post.
It’s not a gimmick but increases work flow log to log. Also has a different middle point for grey at 39 instead of 42. It’s for pro workflows and not us regular folk in general.
As a colorist, it doesnt matter. It's just a starting point before color grading in a more specific way for a look. I could match the colors and luminance from one brand to the next. But having a similar log to another camera to match, does help. So this isn't really a useful log to have unless you're trying to make workflow easier for post production.
As we know, for vlog , we use 2 iso : 640 and 4000. (these are for s5ii/s5iix). If it is possible to use arri c-log 3, and in the specific cameras in the future, what could be the corresponding iso values for arri clog3?
I don't know, i guess it is possible. rut Remember GH7 is the flagship video camera for Micro Four Thirds, so whether Lumix and Arri want to do that on a mid range camera (S5II/x) is the question.
As far as I see the shadow details, they would be a big improvement in filming cinematic style. In cinema the whole impression of a film is quite often much darker than the high key video productions. For this reason the Arri Lut will be great. And than my camera will fit much better to my Arri light stands😜😂😅
I personally think Lumix would want to, it make sense if the collaboration is more than 1 camera. But at the same time, it's more complicated than Lumix wants as it depends on what ARRI want or don't want. Do they see the full frame Lumix camera as direct competitor or not.
So basically using the LUT feature you can use it as Arri color profile for out-of camera ready-footage? One that has many variation (From the arri library). Lucrative LUT option that might be worth it. Vlog is too saturated to my taste. Arri log+lut might be all we need for quick shot.
Really nice and helpful video!!😍👏🏽👏🏽 I would like to see a real world video test and footage comparison between the Gh7 with the 10-25mm+25-50mm f/1.7 zoom lens VERSUS the Gh7 with the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8+Viltrox Speed Booster (x0.71) VERSUS the Gh7 with the Tamron 20-70mm f/2.8+Metabones Speed Booster (x0.64) (checking: lens noise, low light, dynamic range in real world use and If it increase the DR a little bit more with speed booster attached, how are the autofocus and color rendition)
thank you! Unfortunately i may not be able to do that comparison as i don't have access to the speed booster..etc. and i also don't think autofocus works very well with the viltrox speedbooster on the GH7 at the moment.
This is a really interesting review of Arri LogC3 and it has answered nearly all of my questions, However I do have one question which I hope can be answered. Does the Arri Log C3 colour profile use the Arri Colour Science please? Or does the Arri Log C3 colour profile use the Panasonic Colour Science?
@@TheRealRichardWong That is very kind of you to reply. I’m going to guess/assume that the Panasonic Colour Science is so good, out of the box, that it closely matches Arri’s own Colour Science. Or at least that’s what I’m going to tell myself. Cheers. 😀
@@frankinblackpool just keep in mind the colour science from same brand also changes from camera to camera, so even different arri cameras have different colours. But I believe the arri log output from the gh7 should be quite close to the arri cameras
@@TheRealRichardWong Just this very second watched an episode from a chap called Blaine Westropp who got to play with an Arri and GH7 together. Even he mentioned that no two Arri sensors are the same. Really good episode to compare a GH7 Arri Log C3 against an actual Arri camera. And if I ever had the chance to work with Arri footage, then the Panasonic Arri Log C3 would be a No Brainer and an immediate purchase. But as I do RU-vids for a hobby and will never get even close to seeing an Arri camera then it’s pointless buying the Panasonic LogC3 profile. vLog is so good out of camera and using Resolve, I’m more than happy to save the money and not buy the profile. For a professional using both cameras, this is a Game Changer.
@@TheRealRichardWong That’s interesting. I am going to guess that the Big Boys playing with an Arri camera will be shooting in RAW and if they use a sacrificial GH7 then they will try to shoot in RAW where ever possible, to retain as much detail as possible for post production. How would Colourists, who use Davinci Resolve, cope with ProRes RAW footage from a GH7 when grading with Resolve? Or is the Arri Profile a work-around because Davinci Resolve can not use ProRes RAW?
True raw video technically doesn’t record with a baked in log profile. That’s kind of the whole point of having raw video. No baked in profile means log isn’t baked in either. This is why true raw video can be processed in post with different log profiles. The linear raw data can be mapped to whatever log curve you want. This really makes more sense for the non raw formats where you want that look right out of the box to start working with without having to deal with raw video. Not all Hollywood productions are shot raw on Arri. A lot shoot ProRes with a baked in Arri log profile. This will match the GH7 to those workflows where raw isn’t needed as much.
The GH7 is packed with things that most user's who do client work wont need. Also having to invest in a CFepress card to use all these futures fully will be interesting. At 2k one can get the S5ii or S5iix
I've relied on the G85 for weddings for 3 years, finding it adequate given the choices available. However, I'm now in search of an upgrade. While I've had my eye on the Lumix S5 II, the 4K60 crop gives me pause. The GH7 seems ideal, boasting no 4K crop, but its Micro Four Thirds sensor presents a drawback. I'm torn between these options. Though I've considered Sony and Canon, Panasonic's IBIS is so superior that it's challenging to consider other brands.
@morpheusmorph13 full frame sensor is definitely better in terms of low light, but what i found is, for video, quite often you have too little depth of field with full frame so you end up have to stop down 1-2 stop, which means the actual low light performance is the same as a micro four thirds camera
@orinorio1 if you just need basic 4k30 or lower frame rate, don't need uncropped 4k60, or 4k120, rolling shutter doesn't matter to you, you don't need 32bit float audio, internal prores raw or most other features, and you want shallow DOF, then yeah S5II/IIx is probably as good or better choice for you
@@TheRealRichardWong I have the S5ii and it's more then enough. When start doing weddings I prob will get the S5iix or maybe the G9II. The GH7 specs is great just know I'll never have need for them. I don't even shoot in V log when I do client work.
@@morpheusmorph13 reason the GH7 doesn't crop is due to smaller sensor. Sony and Canon cameras also have a crop in 4k60. Personally I have no issues with the 4k60 crop as I only shoot in 4k50fps ( I'm uk base so use Pal ) when I know I'll be slowing down the footgae. If I want extra slow I use 1080p 100fps. The GH7 maybe best for you since you already have MFT lens. So would only need the body. I'm starting into weddings and will be using the GH5 as B camera and S5ii as the main. I have the G85 it did me through so many jobs.
Here you go: www.panasonic.com/nz/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-accessories/accessories/dmw-sfu3a.html But that's from Panasonic New Zealand so maybe not really useful for you
may be: 1/ Matrix -> Arri Log c3 (that's GH7 implementation) and 2/ Matrix -> Vlog -> (Davinci: Vlog -> Arri Log c3) will give you different results :) As a remainder GHalex did this for GH5: 1/ Matrix(Arri) -> Arri Log c3 (Arri's implementation) and 2/ Matrix(GH5) -> Vlog -> (GHAlex: Vlog -> Arri Log c3) and matched results of 1/ and 2/
Hello, how are you? I want to ask you about the new Lumixgh7 camera. I have an external recording device that supports 16BIT RAW video, but does the camera accept external RAW recording or is the highest quality in the camera PRORES RAW 12BIT? Honestly, I want 16bit RAW
Of course as users, want the camera to be as cheap as possible and include as many features as possible. But the GH7 is already the cheapest camera that can do internal prores RAW recording and with other features like 4k120 full width recording..etc. I feel the price is the GH7 is really good already. Arri Log output requires paying licensing fees to Arri. So if it is included, the price of the camera will have to go up which kind of sucks for people who will never use that feature.
Do you really need 32 bit audio? (@$500) The price to features ratio is INSANE. The difference between $100 for the arri c-log 3 is for people who can tell the difference, as is the 32 bit audio, which is mostly irrelevant compared to well recorded 24 bit audio for most applications. 50% of people buying this camera can't see or hear the difference for their applications. Panasonic is giving those who can extremely inexpensive improvements to compete with gear costing 10-50 times more, just like they have been doing for decades. Leading the way for those who know and actually need it.
With 32 bit float XLR audio built in, the Gh7 will absolutely be a high level documentary beast. Mabye it won't be used on establishing shots, but you're mistaken if you think media teams are above something this practical and then need to color match.
A lot of big budget Hollywood movies are shot on Super35 sensor cine cameras (like those from Arri) so I don't see why professional production cannot use m43, especially as a B-cam
oh i didn't expect comment like this. I just did a bit of colour grading myself, not sure if I'm good enough to do tutorial yet to be honest. One day! But thanks!
