Klipsch: "it's a titanium tweeter but its actually aluminum" . Also klipsch: "it's spun copper but it's actually aluminum". Something is getting spun alright.
The spun copper is referring to the copper wound voice coils. The tweeters are however Titanium, he was mistakingly reading the details of the reference series tweeters, not the reference premiere series.
Coils are never spun copper. Yes, the former is spinning when the coil is wound, but that doesn't make it a spun copper. This is spun copper: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-F6lINFzdtCA.html BTW coils aren't always copper, either.
Mid-bass driver cone material is probably aluminium alloy with applied plasma electrolytic oxidation and copper color pigment. The end result is thin layer (tens of micrometers) of Alumina (Al2O3) on both sides which is type of advanced (engineered) ceramic materials.
Ron, I love this breakdown series you started. It very interested to see the guts of a speaker. Can you do this with the Uni-fi's? I'm curious to see where Andrew Jones decided to save some $ to hit their price point.
Great insights into the guts of Klipsch cerametalic speakers. I’m very happy with my R620Fs. I’m kind of glad there are no pro reviews of them on RU-vid because I enjoy the heck out of them and audiophile reviewers would probably crap on them. lol
See if theirs an upgrade for them too by GR-Research as these 600M’s were terrible initially (see GR upgrade vid and Audio Science review of the GR upgrade). Most Klipsch speakers show the same characteristic flaws in their responses which is why GR-Research gets sent so many Klipsch speakers for upgrading / fixing. With these there’s a whole 6 part series on developing then building and installing the upgrade. People who installed this upgrade speak very highly of it
I just built my first C-Note DIY speakers and they sound MUCH better than my stock RP-600M's, hands down. More airy and spacious, more musical, more enjoyable, less boxy and shouty. I routed the backside of the woofer opening, siliconed 2 layers of 30# roofing felt inside, packed the back 2/3 with rockwool, front 1/3 with polyfill. Put the crossover in an external box to eliminate the possibility of cap microphonics. Soldered all the wiring from drivers to the end of the cable to eliminate the potential issues Dannie brought up with cheap connectors. I can't wait to build the X-LS Encores or X-Statics, both of which I expect will sound considerably better than the C-Notes given Dannie's reputation for great designs and parts.
Thanks for showing what’s inside the rp-600m I’ve owned a pair for about 6 months and enjoy them every day. I’ve always a been curious about what the components look like. Cheers Ron
Most of it is likely carryover from some of Klipsch's 90's era speakers where they tended to have very bloated and harsh top ends making them come across as shrill and introducing a lot of listening fatigue.....or at least that's what I'm guessing it could be.
@@matilija I would agree. A lot of large mainstream speaker manufacturers made some pretty bad speakers in the mid to late 90's and Klipsch had some pretty harsh sounding speakers in their line up. So some people will forever associate Klipsch with very bright speakers that fatigue the ears. I thought the same thing until I heard these ones. Klipsch has definitely addressed any brightness problem they used to associated with
They don't have good mid-range. That's why. You've probably found measurements elsewhere by now. There's a hole in the mid-range right where the crossover is, and it punches a hole through the response. Also, they tend to be bright - which may or may not suit you.
"Cerametallic" is a bit of a clever embellishment of what is basically just oxidation that you get with any piece of aluminum. Anodization is a way to build a much thicker layer of that oxide. But I just have a feeling most people are instantly picturing something silica-based when they hear "ceramic," and not aluminum oxide.
Im not even sure the woofer is even aluminum. At my local fry's when they had stuff in stock they had a glass tall cube display of their in wall speaker and klipsch was in that wall. Someone had pushed the woofer in and actually torn/ripped the copper part. I examined it and the interior of the woofer was white and it seemed like it was plastic more than any kind of metal also felt like plastic. Disclaimer i was not the one who punched a hole in it
craigenputtock Very standard for most speakers at this price point, abundant even above this point. Most people will not be able to hear a difference with better parts so they don’t bother to spend the bucks when hardly anyone can hear a difference anyway.
e james Yes, it takes a good speaker and makes it a world class contender I think. But I haven’t heard either the stock or Danny’s modified version either. In theory it should do wonders but I just wonder how much real audible difference it does make.
In regards to the crossover; I’ve seen much worse. I was actually surprised to see the components nicely mounted on a printed circuit board. Maybe I would swap out those capacitors for some higher grade models. Otherwise for the under $300 USD per speaker it seems ok.
Simple crossover because they actually engineered the drivers, not just grab them from a off the shelf parts bin. Not real sure if I’d want to open a speaker to find a crossover that looks like a pc motherboard, that usually is a telltale that the drivers were parts bin grabs and had to fix the speaker after it came out of the listening chamber.
You have to dismantle them to fit the GR Research upgrade. The ‘horn’ is more a wave guide and the back part will be Lourdes in ABS or High Impact Polystyrene most likely. And same for the port. The wave guide won’t be rubber but a thermoplastic Elastomer
Danny Richie's before and after RP-600M measurements are in part I of his upgrade series starting at about 5:42 (before) and 11:04 (after): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NH4xI5VXR_o.html
In regards to the compression driver, Klipsch typically only uses compression drivers in their higher end series (like on my RF7 III). That's one of the major components that separates their higher end speakers with their more affordable speakers.
@eel3161 Perhaps cast metal to stamped metal is a downgrade. But compression to a dome isn't necessarily a downgrade. This particular dome tweeter in a waveguide seems like a robust design. Although in a closet and I've not used them in 10yrs, I own both Klipsch RB-75, and RB-81. Both are 8"/2-ways. The RB75 has a massive, high performance compression driver. The RB81 on the other hand has a tiny dome tweeter that likely costs under $5. Point being the tweeter Ron showed looks nicely capable... regardless of type, which is also consistent with many subjective impressions.
I keep coming back to this review! Such a polarizing speaker. Steve loves it(speaker of the year 2020), you and Randy seem NOT very impressed(to say the least), and Zeos thought it was the “cats meow” (think Chewbacca!)! Huh...
These speakers are absolutely colored. I believe that most people who listen to modern music (especially hip-hop) will LOVE the Klipsch RP600M. But the Klipsch don't sound that great with thin-sounding 80s music or quieter male vocals. I can barely hear Mark Kozelek.
This speaker does review well. That said… The outside of the speaker rarely equates to the inside. gloss vs guts. This is a mass produced box of sound. The description of a speaker by the manufacturer always uses tech talk. Fancy words to sell. Hey the speaker ain’t bad. It’s just enough…. Just enough! That’s what you get. Bracing is lacking. Better crossover components might help and usually do. This is what it is.
These are NOT the seriously well made Klipsch of old, they are fancy looking but for what they cost you should be seeing larger size cast aluminum woofer frames such as my Pioneer five way Pioneer HPM100's have and the Klipsch cabinets are kinda thin at three quarters of an inch thick - again my Pioneer HPM100's have carbon fiber woofers with cast aluminum frames, cabinets are an inch and a quarter thick with bracing. Also these Klipsch speakers only have six and one half inch woofers only handling 100 watts-???? the HPM 100's handle 200 watts - they 2 way Klipsch speakers seem way overpriced to me, id put them up against my old 12" Pioneer HPM100's any day - Dont even get me started on my three way ported 300 watt Cerwin Vega LS12's they would hammer these little klipsches into the ground.
That "ceramic" coating is only microns deep, just sayin... The "titanium" tweeter is perhaps a titanium nitride coating, again, microns deep. This is, I'm sure a marketing gimmick, and I get that, they are trying to move product, but I guess if if doesn't hurt, I have no problem with it. I just ignore all that crap and judge the sound per dollar and decide from there. It's not a horn, it's a waveguide.
Whatever they are made from, they are not super strong. I have somehow unkowning got a small dent in mine even though it is out of the way and not in a high traffic area. Zero clue at all how I have got a small dent in the woofer cone.
Imagine telling another man to his face that you couldn't do any measurements because your digital gadget wasn't working. Oh bless your heart child. Grab a tape measure
The "ceramic" might just be aluminium oxide or something lol. I always thought they were polycones with copper colour. Copper by itself would probably not be a good speaker cone material so there is definitely some marketing wording going on ;p If it looks like a stamped steel basket, it probably is.
Yup, it's an aluminum oxide or alumina which is a ceramic, and during the anodizing process where the surfaces of the aluminum cone are converted, a copper ion bath is used to embed and isolate the copper into the alumina, which then keeps the klipsch signature colour nice and uniform without oxidizing or staining. As for the cerametallic, its near identical to the first to use it, Infinity (Harman) CMMD; watch this for an overview of what it does: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-n5WAu9RetJI.html
I just think all big box speakers even high end speakers don't usually use very good parts. That's why I design my own speakers I know what is going inside them .
Hai fatto una confusione terribile. Il tweeter che hai in mano è della serie rp ed ha la cupola in titanio, mentre la cupola dei tweeter delle serie reference base è in alluminio. Nella foto dell'esploso hai fatto vedere tweeter serie reference base quindi con cupola in alluminio, non hai notato il magnete completamente diverso da quello che avevi in mano? Inoltre il rivestimento della tromba è in silicone non in gomma. Per favore se non sei preparato non recensire.
I bought a pair and am not happy at all with the hype. Not sure it's even worth getting GR Research upgrade kit. I'll probably do it but not holding out hope that these will ever live up to the hype. MY Marantz 8008 has plenty of power to drive these, but they simply don't respond well. As such I will not be buying anything from Klipsch again either. They screwed the pooch. In fact, after being a victim of marketing hype, I think it's DIY from now on. Life is too short to waste money on stuff that doesn't work.
I own these and also the Marantz 8008, I will say that both required an extreme break in period, at least almost a couple hundred hours to open up. Some days I am happy with these speakers and some days they aren't airy enough for me. I also own a lesser non RP pair of Klipsch towers with dual 8" woofers, these technically should not be as "good" but they wipe the floor with the RP600s. I was very unhappy with the Marantz until it fully broke in, but now it drives the towers and I just sit the RP600s on top of them driven by a very nice Yaqin tube amp. I know this is an audiophile no no, but I just turn up the tube amp to my liking and blend in the towers with the beefy Marantz amp to supply the missing depth and its amazing. Oh and also a sub attached to the Marantz as well, the RP600s can now be played alone also with the sub just by turning off speaker A so it only supplies the sub and the tube amp drives the 600s, and it is amazing also! So many variables in audio, to me its best to try and test until you get the magic. I got the magic on these eventually. Good luck
If it's already a really nice sounding speaker, which the RP-600M is, leave it alone & enjoy it. The original designers must have known what they were doing.
Great job.. I currently own the RC-64 iii the RP 8000F and the RP 600M.. great to see what is inside.. owned the Full line of PSB’s before and they sounded great.. Thanks for the great video..
Best I can tell the RP series uses titanium for their tweeter material vs aluminum in the lower series systems. Aluminum and titanium are very similar materials as far as their physical properties. Both tend to be used in speakers of various price points. The woofer I am about 99.9% sure is not any sort of copper other than the color. Copper is a very dense heavy element and it would require an enormous motor assembly to move a cone made of copper with any authority. I think that some marketing is at play here. I think someone mentioned below that it is likely anodized to give it a ceramic coating a few atoms thick so they throw that marketing term in there too. I personally do not care what materials are used for drivers. All I care about is the sound of the system as a whole.
Thanks for this breakdown of the RP600-M, I have owned them now for 8 months as my starter speaker in rebuilding a hifi after a 12 year hiatus. Great to see the guts.
Its similar to the infinity CMMD it's a sandwich of aluminum and ceramic to make it stiff and light which helps to dampen resonance. The copper color makes it look nice
The titanium tweeters of the RP series sound night and day better than the aluminum tweeters in the reference series. Made me replace all my speakers. It was so much better. I bought one on sale and it completely showed up all my speakers
@@manchesterexplorer8519 definitely makes a huge difference. I had an RP center with reference mains, surrounds, and heights. Its one of those things...a video comparison would be Dolby vision. You might not have known it existed, but once you see it, you're not going back. My surround backs come in today. Then I just need to grab a 2 channel amp to be able to use all 11 channels on my x4700. I have rp400m as surrounds and surround backs. Tight little speakers. Rp500sa's as front and rear heights. Rp6000f pair and rp 404c are great for my room. Sometimes I think about the rp8000f, but these give me all I need. With 2 svs pb2000s that bring it all together
@@Cblan1224 sounds like a great set up . I mainly listen to music , so just 2 channels plus a 10 inch powered sub that's set about 30 percent not to boomy just enough to blend in. Denon DRA-800H 100W Per channel , Fluance RT-81 turntable . Also an 1990's Pioneer 30 Disk changer . Nothing crazy . These speakers are made for Vinyl. Cds and streaming still sound great but vinyl brings out the mid range details. Perfection for the $$ Although my amp has A & B channels , so I can run 4 channel stereo mode. Been up in the air about getting The Klipsch Atmos or RP-400m for rear stereo .....maybe lol
I watch a lot of "men at arms" and what they sometimes do is heat the metal and polish it with brass so that it takes on it's color. I wouldn't be surprised if they use a similar process with the aluminum and copper
Gently use a small piece of abrasive paper on the back of the speaker cone and see what's underneath the copper coating. But I'd bet it's just anodised aluminium -'real' copper would tarnish and turn green ...
Fun to watch.I think they sound great and the gloss black is a nice touch. Got the gloss for same price as any other finish so it was a nice free step up. I don't care what its made out of if it does the job I bought it for.
Stop teasing me with those Encores in the background. If you won't be reviewing them take them out of the back drop already. As per your teardown... Yeah cool I guess. I do wonder if upgrading the crossover components, and unfortunately not with the GR Research kits, but rather simply upgrading to spec with better parts will make a major difference.
The RP600M were the first speakers I tried based on the "over the moon" online reviews. When I got them, I tried them with 3 different setups. Nearfield and stereo. I found them harsh, shouty and lacking detail. I returned mine. I now have to dismiss those reviews as made by people that are either deaf or paid to hype Klipsch. The 600MII mysteriously appeared AFTER your upgrade video. They implemented a vast improvement similar to your mod. I am certain they saw your video. They should pay you royalties.
I have to say this. I buy a r 115 sw before 18 months. Before 3 days i turn on the sub and i hear a tik from the sub every half second and again and again . And they dont play but the green light its work. I speak with shop in hreece and tell me the problems is in ampifier and the problem started with electricity. made some power fluctuations. causing the amplifier to malfunction.this never happened I tell them. and in addition how did you draw a conclusion from the phone? We Greeks do this, we know everything. but to make a diagnosis over the phone? we're talking about becoming a scientist he goes lost behind the desk.then of course he told me that the guarantee does not cover me in foul damage !! while they haven't even seen the speaker, and then they closed it for me, telling me that we have a customer, now we can't deal with anything else.I sent an email to klipsch explaining what happened, they apologized to me for what I suffered and gave me a phone call for a change service so I could fix the problem. the point is that no one picks up the phone. I still can't tell you if it will be free or if they will catch my ass.What impressed me is, first of all, how useless the Greeks are in a product after the sale. When they tell you to close, I have a customer in a store that a year and a half ago I gave € 1000 as an asshole. and in addition, if it is so, I can give thousands of euros for fun, I go to get Logitech 5.1 with 300 € and a woofer 8 inches. which has an incredible bass and if it breaks I will have service !!! to lose and klipsch to lose and the store where I bought it !!
Having been born in a now metric England in the first half of the last century as my Grandchildren have pointed out; I thought of the USA as the last bastion of sensible measurement. Klipsch advertising would appear to be B/S like so many other HiFi companies, the advertising department does not have a clue about the product they are trying to sell. Keep up the good work.
You have been most informative I am not rich by no means but I have managed to purchase a klipcsh subwoofer r12sw and a pair of bookshelf speakers and I have put both boxes in my closet to open on Christmas Day. The wait is rough !!! Your look inside makes me think my money was well spent. Now if I could just get a good price on a center channel and 2 more bookshelf speakers. I’ll then ad the whole set to my Samsung receiver dvd.in my living room Come on Christmas 🎄
Mission that was very interesting, I have no idea what you just reviewed! I mean I know you did the guts of the RP6 hunter damn, but it really does it mean anything to me LOL question? What are the chances of you giving me your opinion on the Klipsch RP 4000 F
Just purchased a pair of RP 600M and I love them especially in the Piano Black finish. Love them as they are but considering the GR Research crossover upgrade to alleviate the frequency dip.
Also , not sure if you listen to Vinyl but I swear these speakers sound perfect playing records. Running a Denon DRA-800H 2 channel amp with a Fluance RT-81 . Both aren't crazy money but seem to all work for me.
For the most part I really enjoy my 600m’s but my biggest issue is there is a large amount of resonance coming from the speakers, more then any other speakers that I have owned.
Typical case of marketing people out of control and decoupled from the guys doing doing the actual design of the product. It seems to work so far as Klipsch is a big seller. Unfortunately it will backfire if they take it too far and damage the brand for a long time. This is a great video that is exposing the dangerous path that Klipsch has started to thread.
Yep. I just went and looked at the Klipsch site and he might have been mistakenly been on the R51M page. The RP600M page and the spec pdf doc state it’s titanium.
Great video man! This is awesome. Not too many speaker break downs out there. The rp600m does have a titanium tweeter. The flared port according to z reviews is a "sandwich port." 😂 You earned a sub
Re : Tweeter : Titanium usually looks slightly less "metallic"; is grey, matt or gloss (probably a plastic composite) finish. Aluminium is normally bright metallic, more mirror reflective unless it has a brushed finish. Also can be anodised
Hey Ron, how about some reviews of phono preamps, cartridges and turntables? Everyone seems to like reviewing the same stand mount speakers. I know I’m sounding critical and I apologize for that, I don’t mean my question to be that way. I want a new source and that will be a turntable; I could use some info. Stereo stores are not that easy to find, and the ones I know about aren’t open.
Michael Black Hi Michael. I’m certainly not trying to put down Ron or discredit him here, but you might wanna watch some of Ian at HiViNyws’s vids. He’s done some excellent reviews of turntables, carts, and phono pres over the years.
Michael Black I think you’ll dig Ian. He also buys all the stuff with his own money, and he’s just a great guy too. He lives in Singapore, which you’ll see is a HiFi heaven, if you see vids of the stores in the mall with like 3 or 4 HiFi places. It’s pretty crazy. Have a good one, Michael! 🎶👍
New Record Day That’d be cool, Ron. I know you’re kinda of a turntable kinda guy anyway, if I’ve got that right. On a side note, it sounds as if a lot of people are getting cabin fever and getting bitchy. Not just here, but on a lot of HiFi based channels. It just comes off as childish. I’m not talking about this comment, but I’ve read a bunch of the others, and there’s just no need for it. You’re helping a lot of people with stuff they’re interested in, and a few rotten eggs gotta come and stink up the joint. To them I say, Pfff....
When will you review/talk about the X-LS Encores? I own the retail X-LS's and bought most of the mods from Danny a few years ago that I still need to install so I am curious what the cabs you have have in them!!!!
All speakers not just tweeters are linear if they're not then they rub on the motor and eventually get damaged...just slot of flash phrases for box standard thing's and flared ports are not a necessity with that woofer you only need flares when the particle velocity is high ...just to put things in perspective I own 2 Orion hhca 15.2 subwoofers and they're in a ported enclosure and my box doesn't cuff with 5k rms going into em ...just saying great vid though
As far as the linear goes I'm sure they meant something along the lines of klippel measurements for non-linearity and not just the basic voicecoil alignment... Maybe not. And yes that port is overkill🧐 may just be one of those save money by just having one set of molds for the flair and just adjusting the length to save some manufacturing cost...
Audio Electronics Very standard for most speakers at this price point, abundant even above this point. Most people will not be able to hear a difference with better parts so they don’t bother to spend the bucks when hardly anyone can hear a difference anyway.
Audio Electronics Very standard for most speakers at this price point, abundant even above this point. Most people will not be able to hear a difference with better parts so they don’t bother to spend the bucks when hardly anyone can hear a difference anyway.
