Daniel! Try to collaborate with LegalEagle on RU-vid! Maybe he'll analyze this for a joint video! He's pretty cool and does collaborate from time to time.
Yeah but one of the big advantages Merlin had over other book series that get adapted, as well as when it was done, was the fact there's not the same amount of die hard fans who get twisted (rightly so in many cases) about the slightest changes etc. There's already so many different versions of the Arthurian Legends anyway. I mean they started out as a love story and most people no longer think about them in that way.
@@itarry4 Aye. Merlin can simply be considered a new take on the Arthurian Legend. Just one more among many already out there. On a story almost nobody knows how much of is true and how much is fiction. Unlike a book adaptation, which has a set story that is absolutely canon.
@kopicat2429 People getting their panties in a knot over "canon" is a phenomenon I still cannot fully understand. It's this trying to set in stone a correct "right" version of a story or form of expression that feels so against the whole point of creative arts in the first place.
It's honestly really funny that people missed out on potentially millions trying to hold onto a property. This could've ridden the coattails of the Lord of the Rings hype in the Naughties or even Game of Thrones hype a decade later down the line, but instead they somehow managed to delay so much that they ended up right into the backlash against the prestige scifi tv bubble.
Red Eagle being involved in the Amazon series explains a LOT! This explains why we had a reality "star" as show runner instead of someone with vastly more experience. It explains why the whole show has a "that'll do" feeling for me.
God I remember downloading this from one of those services (Limewire, Napster, etc) and just being confused, then looking up the story on its existence and still being confused. This video was delightful and like reading a good book. You tied the recent AI WOT story in beautifully. I had gotten so wrapped up in the telling of the tale that I had forgotten about it completely. It was like having the villain unmasked at the end and I was appropriately shocked. Anyway, fantastic video as always. ❤
I am that person who isn't a fan (but I don't hate WOT Its just... not magical to my brain like it is yours which happens). I did see that with a friend and admit fully that I was even less understanding of the hype. Luckily my friend explained how it was so far from the stories so I knew it was bad more than just objectively. Morally seems to be on that list based on this video. I know the Amazon adaptation is not good enough. I truly hope you and others who are the fans that make this property worth anything at all eventually get the adaptation you deserve, that Robert Jordan deserves, and that those of us who are incompatible with his prose can see why you love it in glorious detail.
It's just so wild that after this long it's looking like there will never be a decent WOT adaptation in my lifetime. Just goes to show how lightening in a bottle the LOTR movies were. It really matters that the right people with the right intentions and vision get ahold of your IP. It's one of the main reasons why I'm big hyped for whenever Sanderson decides to bring Mistborn to the screen. He's clearly learned from being involved in these other things and there's no way he gives over creative control of the things he has so carefully crafted.
The lesson in all of this is you should not allow any contracts of a similar nature to auto renew... Every contract renewal should have the owner of that intellectual property give explicit permission for each renewal. Yes build in certain requirements that must be met as well such as putting out some sort of content based on the intellectual property but there should be no auto renewal system. All renewals should be explicitly permitted each and every time.
as a new fan of Wheel of Time (started last year) that is about to start AMOL within the next few days, I find it extremely upsetting how the rights to make any adaptations of this amazing series have been held. The fact that this shady company has held onto this product for 2 DECADES and has done next to nothing with it besides under deliver and misrepresent the franchise is appalling. The Amazon series is “ok” at best and I seriously doubt we will get a 4th season unfortunately because of how low the streams are for the show. As a new fan of this series, I would just like to have an adaptation of this story that we as a fanbase can say “This does the series justice” which I cannot say for basically anything Red Eagle has done. One can only hope the Wheel turns to a new Age of ownership.
About to start A Memory of Light... I'd give a year off my life to be able to re-read that for the first time again... if you're still around, I'd love a report on what you thought.
@@Ellis_Hugh SPOILERS FOR ANYONE NOT PASSED AMOL absolutely fucking amazing. The Dragon died as the prophecy said but Rand lived and is able to actually have some peace for a while (FINALLY) & with the power of basically the Creator.. Although there are a lot of unsolved mysteries and a lot of untied ends, it leaves so much to talk about and speculate with people on, which I think all great story’s should have. I think the Wheel of Time had one of the best endings you could possibly give it considering the circumstances of Robert Jordan’s unfortunate passing. Brandon Sanderson did the best possible job he could have. he knocked it out of the park imo. My favorite scene of the last book has to be Perrins fight with Slayer. The flickering back and forth between Tel’aran’rhiod (can’t believe i spelled that right on my first try, i had to look it up to make sure lol) and the real world WAS INSANE! Lan fighting Demandred was also amazing but tbh i think he should have died :/ , ik that would’ve KILLED Nyanaeve but common he was literally fighting DEMANDRED! All in all though I absolutely loved the ending ( i have a full like 100+ lines of notes in my phone from AMOL) and I can’t wait for more of the show just to get me some more WOT fix even IF it might be not well adapted lmao! 🤣
Yep, Red Eagle can seriously go choke on it. I don't think I've ever despised some random entertainment company as much as I despise them for what they did to my favorite book franchise over the years. Never going to forget that God awful pilot that they used as a gimmick to extends the rights a little longer. Such slimeballs.
If you ask me, that Red Eagle signature style and production value still pervades the Amazon adaptation, so it makes sense that Larry Moondragon and the other guy are still involved. If I was going to make a serious attempt to continue with it after the pilot, I'd definitely watch it at 1:30 in the morning, and I'd probably not be able to tell that it wasn't made in 2015.
Larry Mondragon is listed as an executive producer, as is Harriet and Brandon Sanderson. As far as I know, it's name only - probably in exchange for permission - which rankles. The money probably flows TOWARD Red Eagle, not away from it... So I would stop spreading that false info that they have anything to do with the production itself. They don't/ Seems like you should do what I did with GOT - just stop watching it. I mean I have no idea what your theater or film background is, but there is no style or production similarity at all. None - well maybe S1E7 and E8 during the pandemic, but even then a LOT better than Winter's Dragon.
I attempted to watch Winter Dragon live at 1:30am and DVR it… but despite it being listed in the channel guide for Charter Cable, it did not actually air for me! I was doubly livid!
Mondragon is a real name which Mondragoran is likely modeled after. Look into the Mondragon corporation in Spain, it's the most successful worker cooperative in the world. A posterchild for the effects of proper union advocacy and worker collaboration, often pointed to as an example of what can be done when the ownership class is excised from the enterprise.
I can't get ovet the fact he's in it :D _Twin Peaks_ , _the Phantom_ , maybe even _the Avengers_ (not the Marvel one) if I'm not mistaken, and then there's the _Winter Dragon._ Oh, yeah, and _the Titanic._ His work has cult following.
Daniel, very well researched and well put together video! I don't know Larry or Rick at all, nor have I ever talked to them (though I'd love to and might have a chance to interview them in the future), but I do think it would be helpful to hear their version(s) of the story. I don't know if they can even defend anything that's been said about them in this video or for the last 2-3 decades, but it would be great to hear their side. They might be the villains we fans paint them to be, but they also seem to be (Larry at least) actual Wheel of Time fans who have also had some big dreams, though they've obviously made some big mistakes as well.
I liked the early graphic novels and think the art was fantastic! After that their products have been mostly disappointing and their business practices shady. ...but the reason they are da'tsang is for suing Harriet
Was it? I remember it as melodramatic and silly. I know audiences LIKE sentimental melodrama, but I really don't. I'll have to rewatch one and see if I am thinking of something else. I remember the weird casting. I mean Sam Neill? What?
I actually watched the show. Well, much of it. I came home from the bar and started channel surfing, so I missed the beginning. I came across something that looked different and watched. Halfway thru, I realized, "Whatever this thing is, it's ripping off The Wheel of Time." Then, I promptly forgot about it for years.
As an 18 year old reading the third book (didn't see the web series), I am constantly amazed by who how rational the WoT fandom is and how much they have suffered, compared to all the other fandoms out there.
@@limerslimer because idiots keep saying shit like this OP. WoT got a budgeted adaptation in less than 3 decades but thinks theyre the longest suffering. You want we should sit here and suffer such lies in silence?
LOTR fans have long been regarded as the only nerds with real clout. LOTR fans never had to defend the work against other fiction. LOTR fans have multiple adaptions. LOTR fans kept getting new works released. So what are you talking about? Suffering?@@jamestaylor3805
The thumbnail picked my attention because after some slow start years ago with this series, I resumed with lord of chaos and haven't stopped since. I'm completely addicted and about to finish the last book. This series is amazing, I'm truly immersed and maybe obsessed and was just commenting yesterday that its finished. So it would be cool to have a fully finished adaptation that made it justice.
One major difference between LOTR or GoT and TWoT is length. LOTR is 3 books, so making 3 movies is a reasonable goal, and GoT was planned to be 7, so that makes sense as 7 seasons of TV, but Wheel of Time is huge, and only MCU has really done something to that scale. I would say a better comparison for adaptation is Lewis’s Narnia that has started adaptation several times but doesn’t maintain the interest of a casual audience to get through to the end.
CS Lewis is more that he has 1 incredible book that everyone likes and then he has 6 of lesser quality that loses at least half the fanbase. We don't have one WoT book that is good enough to just read/adapt on it's own.
to be honest wheel of time is a bit bloated there are things that can be cut out easily.... most of all in the slog but some other plots as well. I think that they ruined it from the start they are doing too many changes right now that didnt need to happen
@@kyleellis1825 I would say 1 book that is more easily adapted to the screen, but I wouldn’t say the quality of any 1 of the chronicles far exceeds the quality of the others.
I remember watching this and thinking “this is a joke, right? What is this?” Experiencing it when it happened, and seeing the show we have now has been quite a journey
Excellent video!! I will be absolutely astonished if iWoT manages to get anything made. I would like to know when their rights run out on those AoL movies, etc, so I can start a countdown. Everything I hear about them just pisses me off more.
Totally forgot about Winter Dragon.. Just went and watched it again.. I felt the same I did back then... Just say her name over and over, and show the same scenes over and over.. But then to realize it actually is closer to the books than the current series is lol..
I hope hospital beds will have PC's built in so that I can watch a good Wheel of Time adaptation in my death bed once those bastards finally lose their rights one way or another. I was hoping for the tv show to get cancelled and then a better show made in its place. But now I realise it's gonna take a VERY long time before the rights are reversed back to its rightful owners.
Winter Dragon seriously reminds me of the 12 minute Hobbit that was made for similar reasons, except worse because Tolkien at least was allowed to buy the rights to his story back.
I understand the importance if holding on to rights ... but if this is all they do ... where the hell did they get all that money? And why spend it to just sit on it? I don't get it at all.
Thanks for the breakdown on this. I'm not someone who has read the Wheel of Time (I came to your channel after you expanded beyond just WoT) not gonna lie though at the begging of the video your blue eyes just really popped and made me think you were on the Spice (hope this comes off as a joke and not creepy. I just noticed it)
Why? I mean WHY? Why reminding us of Red Eagle Entetainment? Why Daniel? WHY?! I know Mr Stabbin's is smiling at the back but I bet he is not happy either... anyway... great video! BUT WHY?! 🤣
I remember when that blog post by Jordan came out. It was one of, if not the, last posts he made before he died. To me, Red Eagle's continued involvement with Wheel of Time has been disrespecting a dead man's last wish. Utterly despicable
Firstly, I didn't read the title to mean "taint" as a stain. Idk if you meant the double entendre, but iwot could also be considered the taint (body part) of the WoT. That is hilarious to me. Also, I would love to see Legal Eagle take this on.
I read their intro article describing the lazy AI App and went "That's a bunch of empty words promising nothing" and... oh look, seems like that's actually completely on brand for them.
Okay, that production schedule is absolutely INSANE!! If they aired that pilot on the ninth and finished shooting on the 4th, that gives them like 2-3 days to actually edit the whole thing together, add soundtrack, foley, and a hundred other things I don't even know about because I'm not really a film person. I know you said you thought it didn't kill the director but... did it?
Love your new background! Little changes made a huge impact! It's highlighted when you flash to your fantasy news in this video. Coming from a photographer- good job🙌
Important follow up question: Do we know the ongoing status of the adaptation rights? Presumably they still have an expiration date even with a ongoing series.
They blocked us for two decades from getting content on an IP that we love. Worse, they are still preventing competent, capable people from doing what they have failed to do. And don't even get me started on them suing RJ's widow. Bad people! Shame on them!
I've read only the first Wheel Of Time book, but I live for this drama, and I empathize with die hard fans, if this were my favorite IP, I'd be mad forever about this gross miss handling. And thanks for the cool video Goblin :).
The ashcan history of Dick Tracy is also interesting. I remember watching that fxx pilot but have no idea where, just remember Billy Zane(? or mummy guy?) walking around and monologue(ing). I do remember reading the io9 or maybe gizmodo article at the time. Iwot Productions Limited = Red Eagle Entertainment, got it.
One of my favourite ashcan stories is the 1967 animated adaptation of the Hobbit. It was 12 minutes long, premiered the day before the rights expired in a tiny projection room, and the creator paid people on the street the dime it cost to enter so that they had technically paid to see it.
Lol. He's my favorite.. I used to have a stick when I was young, and spin it around The pretend I was him.. I didn't have a sword attached to it though..lol
And yet, Winter Dragon was more faithful to Jordan's work in that infomercial episode, than Amazon's WoT will ever be. (At this stage, Amazons show is so different I do not see anyway to get back to Jordan's story.)
Scrolling through the comments wondering if anyone else agreed with me lol. I watched that when it first released and was blown away, it was a perfect, although low budget, recreation of the prologue, and Billy Zane would have been awesome with a little polish. Just stumbled on it out of nowhere, no heads ups that my favorite series was being adapted. Then a couple days later read the iOS story explaining it was all just a bs play to get more time to try to sell it off. Just wrecked me. Then, years later, Amazon purposely tanks the two properties Ive been excited to see since the early 90's, Conan the barbarian series (with Arnold reprising old Conan), and the Elric white wolf series, so no one can make them and picks up wot because it's already more inclusive/PC... Only to destroy the entire story into incomprehensible garbage. Like if you are going to drastically change the story, to the point that major plot points no longer make sense... DON'T KEEP ALL THE SAME PLOT POINTS! You lazy, disingenuous, hack writers. I wanted the books on screen, I would have settled for the characters on screen with a good story. We got a halfway thought out mess of random copy/paste with major changes without any effort into making something coherent.
@nopeid2790 The Amazon adaptation is not nearly as awful as some claim. However the one thing that the Winter Dragon adaptation did way way better than Amazon's show is the casting & portrayal of Ishamael. I really love Billy Zane's portrayal, infinitely superior to that of the actor who plays Ishamael in the Amazon show. Amazon's Ishamael comes off as hugely bland, boring, generic, uncharismatic, unconvincing, etc. They should've just brought back Billy Zane as Ishamael for the Amazon show.
Tldr: red eagle ripped off Dabel Brothers (graphic novel folks) back when doing New Spring, resulting in the drastic difference in art style of 1st half versus 2nd half. Thank you!! I am so glad someone is talking about this. You did such a great job explaining. Only halfway thru so far, but as you have jumped to 2014, I noticed the lack of mention of Red Eagles treatment of the Dabel Brothers, the people who actually did the New Spring graphic novel. From what I remember, they were slow to pay Dabel brothers for their product as it came out (the graphic novel was released as single issue, which I purchased at the time.) The end result was that they lost some of the people who did the artwork and coloring (and maybe ink). That's why the style of the first half is DRASTICALLY different from the second half. It's like night and day. And while the 2nd half isn't bad, it lacks the precision and coloring of the 1st half. I loathe Red Eagle.
Apparently mondragon is a town in spain. There is a large co-op (apparently founded in the 50s) named that, and even a university of some form. It might not be an assumed name. Conversely, Mandragoran might be a modification of the town/co-op/university/etc in spain. I met him at a book signing around 2003, i asked him about how he created the slew of personal names, town names, etc… and i have to say that now that im thinking about it (20 years later) honestly forgot his answer
I still have hope that something will happen and that will amaze us and award the memory of Robert Jordan justice. I have not seen this yet. But i have hope!
@DanielGreeneReviews That is an awesome Wheel of Time display. Where did you get that? I want one! I just started collecting luxury books with leather bound cosmere.
