when GREAT movies suddenly become BAD movies 

I think it's also because cinemas used to have regular reruns of older films, and also tv would show ooder films all the time, but nowadays cinemas are less artsy and only show blockbusters, tv no longer airs them, and streaming services don't offer them so they are not watched. People don't know they exist.

I went to film schools and they said Citizen Kane is an asset to cinema and will always be relevant to film making, no matter how much we enjoy technically advance movies or CGI.

Hi! Interesting video, but as someone who is currently studying film studies and is pursuing it as a career I just find your hypothesis to be highly pessimistic about the nature of film culture and generally flawed. Citizen Kane isn't just a footnote to film, it's one of the most important of all time and the IMDB 250 / Letterboxd 250 is a irrelevant metric to follow how influential and important a film is over a long period of time. We're living through a era of postmodern cinema culture where directors like Wes Anderson and Quentin Tarantino can make a living by purely copying older, international and underseen films and turn them into something new. Pulp Fiction is #8 on the IMDB top 250, but it's strong influences like Bande à part or Breathless by Jean-Luc Godard (neither is other influences like Deliverance, His Girl Friday and Black Sabbath) are nowhere to be seen, and that's natural. Good filmmakers, like Tarantino, will be able to take from other good filmmakers like Godard and make something that resonances with modern audiences. That's why polls and Sight and Sound and AFI are MUCH more important than "Letterboxd 250" and "IMDB 250", because critics and directors presents the films that inspire their art that resonates with us. Citizen Kane isn't "becoming a footnote", it's being left out by modern audiences because they struggle to resonate with older movies, but it's #3 on the BFI Sight and Sound 2022 poll, so clearly newer and older critics and directors alike agree on it's place in history. I just think modern audiences thoughts and opinions are more what's important to culture right now; films like Spiderverse and Dune Part 2 seem to have thrown themselves up onto the IMDB 250 and the Letterboxd 250, but how audiences will react from them in ten years may be completely different because IMDB and Letterboxd 250 are filled with recency bias and what's relatable right now, a way-worse system for measuring film than BFI's once every 10 year, top 10 poll with Sight and Sound. Time hasn't moved on, audiences have, but filmmaker's haven't. Citizen Kane's influence is still more clear than ever, I mean one of last year's most appraised films and Academy Award winner Oppenheimer by what feels like fan-favourite director Christoper Nolan, with in my opinion the major mystery moment with the "secret" Einstein conversation is basically just the film's rosebud moment. It's not that Citizen Kane has become common-place that means it's had it's downfall, it's become SO influential that it's groundbreaking accomplishments are being recognised EVERY TIME we watch a modern movie. That's more important than what IMDB 250 will lead you to think. And so filmmakers and audiences who are inspired by Oppenheimer, and Magnolia, Memento, Raging Bull, There Will Be Blood, The Godfather, The Social Network, and so many more modern movies will be tracked back to Welles and Citizen Kane to learn how it achieved such incredible feats. The same way we backtrack to the Lumiere Brothers & Buster Keaton & Charlie Chaplin & D.W Giffth already in film history. Citizen Kane's downfall within modern general audiences views isn't a reminder of how insignificant we all are and about how our favourite movies will be ignored 100 years into the future, but instead with how we praise entertainment that aligns with our current mood and society, and that no matter what, Citizen Kane's importance lies in it's legacy on what films we praise today.

Older movies don't appeal to mainstream audiences sensibilities. Anyone interested in film and film making understands how films built up cinematic language over the history of film.

Could you imagine if CGI or large budgets actually determined a film's worth? Yikes!

Not only is this video's thesis suspect, it gets the factual details wrong as well. Citizen Kane did not make a giant splash when it came out; it wasn't until critics and directors like Truffaut re-evaluated it in the 50s that it gained its reputation. And even though it won the Academy Award for best original screenplay, the result was booed when it was announced. So our narrator is making up facts to support a weakly-reasoned idea in the first place.

This anti-Welles evergrowing sentiment saddens me so much. I feel such a connection with all of his movies.

I believe that Citizen Kane, The Godfather, or any other influential films will never truly be forgotten. To say that they will would be like saying that because the discovery of electricity happened almost three hundred years ago, it no longer affects us. It was a milestone in the field of science, just like Citizen Kane was a milestone in the field of filmmaking. Even if the movie itself is forgotten, its impact will still be felt for generations to come.

A bit of a misleading title. CK is not considered a “bad” film today. It’s just maybe not as revered by everyone, and even then, it still had its fans. It also tells a good story, independent of its technical innovations.

I find Citizen Kane very similar to the works of Satyajit Ray. Just like Orson Welles he was a new director and tried many different unconventional things in his cinema and they are still talked about till this day. They both liked to experiment and do things which professionals thought to be foolish but little did they know it would revolutionize and make it the new normal. Legendary filmmakers !!!!!

Time to admit my sin. At uni, during Film 101, 30 years ago, I skipped the screening of Citizen Kane in favor of the pub. It didn't stop me repeating the mantra "Citizen Kane is the best film". A decade later, I saw it and it's true, Rosebud is a kick ass twist of all plot twists.

How interesting, I really didn't like Citizen Kane, but it is undeniable that, from a technical and narrative point of view, it changed the way of making films, this cannot be erased by the change of position on a list, which is pure statistics.

I'm sorry, but IMDB Top 250 is not a good example to show the best or most important movies of all time. I don't get the point of the video, after all Citizen Kane is still considered to be one of the most essential movies in general.

The masses have never cared much for art outside of transient entertainment. Cinema helped promote a view that this was more an accessibility issue because of how popular it was, time has proven it right the masses don’t care much about art. Actual film lovers will always make sure films like Citizen Kane, Sunset Blvd, The Godfather, aren’t forgotten. Horror fans are still watching 1922’s Nosferatu, Universal’s Frankenstein, Hitchcock's Psycho, Carpenter’s Halloween. Film appreciation is going to be fine, just gotta shatter illusions the masses care about it. They care about novelty, talk about it, move on to next thing.

Three factors to consider… Marty’s hypothesis of training the audience and setting there expectations and creating their appetite doesn’t just hold true for cinema… it’s actually pretty basic neuroscience. So we now have an audience trained on blockbusters (and the last decade is pretty bereft of anything with any fiber) with rare expectations such as blade runner 2049, Dune 1 (and as many problems as I have with 2)… and I’m sorry but inception was Nolan’s last true opus with any depth beyond the pizazz. 2. Social media and to a lesser degree (but still detrimental) television and video games have completed with cinema, and retrained the attention span to be further and further intolerant of true engagement and supplanted it with the need for consistent and constant dopamine hits. 3. Audiences are now laden with the crackpot theory (that was a thought experiment at first) authors intent… that the audiences interpretation is not only equally valid, but in fact more valid… especially if it contradicts the authors stated intent. This toxic waste dump way of viewing art has given rise to countless bad takes, ways to strip art of its merits and made scores of talentless hacks elevate themselves from mediocrity… when engagement is the pursuit… nothing works like a hot take. People are not great with context, so your point about something revolutionary ultimately ends up a trope definitely blocks viewers from giving credit to the trailblazers.

It's ironic that a film that once was really celebrated for taking risks and going against the standard became the new standard to constrict artistic expression once again, by no fault of its own. It's just another case of each generation assuming they're smarter/more imaginative than the one that came before them.

This is kind of a silly video. No one goes to IMDb to find out which films are considered the greatest ever made. Citizen Kane is still near the top of the list of Sight and Sound

what a depressing note to end the video. truly loved it!

I'm no cinema expert but I'm pretty sure that there's a significant difference between a thing slowly being forgotten due to its age and it somehow becoming bad. Quality does not equal current popularity, in fact popularity doesn't even equate to how much you can enjoy something or learn from it, it just makes it easier or harder to find out about its existence. The title is very misleading.

Most of the ''Things like this or this'' had already been done by Jean Renoir in 39, with « La Règle du Jeu ». Kane came 2 years later. Latest mass success remake of social climbing scripts must be « Parasites ».

Considering how many movies have been made over the last 100 plus years and given that the film business is so competitive- if my magnum opus was not in the top 5, but rather the bottom 100 of greatest movies ever made, I’d still be happy.

To be honest, IMDb was never reliable to begin with. I mean, avengers infinity war and endgame are at like 60 something when movies like citizen kane sits at 102. 90% of the time when I look at an IMDb score, I'm like "What the heck?"

High standards in cinema elevate and change so I'd think that would obviously affect some classics but we cannot deny that classics are the ones that released before and would always have a place in cinema no matter how bad or minimal they are compared to today's movies.

I love the fake ending 50 seconds in. Perfectly done. I'm one of those film school guys who was force fed Citizen Kane until I wanted to puke. To this day, I've only seen the "important" scenes, and never brought myself to watch it in its entirety. Though, I do have a crazy amount of respect for Orson Welles and Kane's behind the scenes story though. If 100 years from now, my favorite films are 102 on any best films of all-time list, they will have risen significantly from the status they now hold. Sure, there's a difference between best and favorite. Favorite can be entirely subjective, but best starts to delve into objectively quantifiable territory. Nevertheless, I've had full blown arguments with professors and classmates about why I honestly believe Return of the Living Dead is one of the best films ever made.

You’re being too dependent on mainstream taste with your argument here when Citizen Kane has never been held up by the mainstream. It’s not like Letterboxd of the 1980’s would’ve held Citizen Kane in a higher regard than the 2020’s Letterboxd does; when opened up to a large enough group, a film like Kane is always going to suffer because it’s not for everyone. But it remains a genius piece of work to all the people who ultimately maintain the canon of film, and for that reason it will never fall off.

"Time has moved on," of course, but if people care about things like magazines making list, they're never going to like Citizen Kane. They'll think the latest Marvel crap is the greatest filmmaking. And if they think that, who cares? The truly good stuff will always have enough smart people who understand that The Best isn't the same as My Favorite.

Wonderfully humbling message

If anything, I feel like this video is too short to cover a topic like this. Because, despite what a lot of other film buffs have said in the comments, it is kinda undeniable that we are seeing a fundamental shift in the way people view movies. Whether we like it or not, everyone grows up in a different context when it comes to film. Let's be honest here, younger audiences aren't being inspired by Citizen Kane because, while it did change the way movies were made, it still is at the end of the day something that isn't relatable to newer generations. Today's future filmmakers are being wowed by Christopher Nolan, Denis Villeneuve, Greta Gerwig, Jordan Peele, etc. I've started saying this: consensus is temporary. Back then, people hated the Star Wars prequels, but as those audiences died out and the generation that grew up on them are now on the Internet, the prequels have gotten a new life. A similar thing happened with 2002's Chicago. Back then, and up until the late 2010s, people called it one of the worst Best Picture winners ever. Now, younger audiences have come back to this film's side and are calling it a groundbreaking musical adaptation that totally deserved Best Picture. Every film has a critical expiration date.

A depressing but insightful video. It's people like us who keep these films alive, folks

generally, films and music of our youth have a special place for us. and often preceding generations don't appreciate the works of the past. Oh, by the way I love the works of Orson Welles but today's generation would be unfamiliar and perhaps bored by the works of yesteryear. Sad!

In a similar vein one might ask "What do we have to learn from Shakespeare anymore?" and one answer might be "At least as much as Kurosawa did when he made Throne of Blood and Ran."

It may be a memory hole matter when it comes to Kane. Films have been so democratized and accessible to produce that the entire cultural caretaker system we’ve relied on until now has dropped off. The whole attitude that. “Critics don’t know shit” and “I don’t care what anyone else likes” has taken over. Kane is a causality, but not the only one, sadly. It’s not the film’s fault. It’s become a homework movie to some but each time I watch it (and I do at least once a year) I have to be reminded of its narrative, of its sequence of events, and how memories are embedded inside memories. And that marriage sequence! An entire film unto itself. The film as a whole contains multitudes. Drama, comedy, musical, historical epic, melodrama, even a bit of slapstick and a series of framings and blockings that shame other filmmakers and their refusal to let movies move, for Chrissake. I would encourage any aspiring film maker or just a film fan to reconnect with Kane. It’s not a drag. Not even for a second. It’s thrilling in every frame.

Cinema was just one of many art forms of passive light entertainment. Critics saw it as a cheap ( a trick ) art form... no more meaningful than previous art forms. Most films were very poor, only a few shone as anything more than shoddy money-grabs. Then cinema shifted... it jostled its way to becoming the greatest art form for the ordinary masses. No other passive entertainment could do what film could. Couldn't match, its ability to embody so much emotional impact. With so little given by the viewer in return. Cinema grew to be a monstrous industry. Spewing out 'product' endlessly. It has become so relentless... people are used to a certain level of quality. They don't even see 'quality' anymore. They only notice it... when it's completely absent. Consumers are only after whatever is new. Even if that new thing is a remake or a sequel. It must be brand new and that's what the industry gives its customers... a never ending supply of 'new stuff'.

4:57 Excellent video. I'm not sure when I came to this conclusion, but it was very early on with video games. I was still jamming on an Atari 2600 in the 90s. I thought it was cutting edge. Until I learned about the Sega, Nintendo, Game Boy, and the Game Gear. No one talked about or played Pac Mac but adults.

I loved Orson Welles as a kid and was shocked when I got around to Citizen Kane and hated it. I saw it years later as an adult and was dazzled and blown away by it. I think Kane gets Shakespeared. I think people have it forced on them when they're too young and inexperienced to relate to it and don't catch the vicious satire running through it. I remember thinking it was ludicrously overblown as a kid--the mockery and irony running through every scene was completely lost on me, and I took it all as overblown tragedy that didn't feel earned.

Because nobody is watching it anymore. It's hard to access, and, as it was made in 1941, is becoming less and less relatable by the day. On top of this, as an incredibly influential film, its influences which borrow from it are taking its place in the zeitgeist. You see the same in other mediums, like writing or music, but those are much older mediums, and so it's less noticeable. No one's going to make this video about Mozart or whatever may have influenced that which came after.

Interesting. 108 isn't bad and Citizen Cane is obviously one of the most influential films of all time.

During pandemia my daughter made a group to watch movies every night at the same time and after that we discuss it (on line, of course), and this was the first at my request. All the viewers were young (except me) and with university degrees in different areas, and the only one who loved the film, though I must have seem it 20 times or so, was me. I was 60 and the rest between 25 and 30. Conclusions?

I would like to add that when this polls are made today, they ask this questions to people that have been bred with Marvel films and think they are wise and deep. How many of them have seen Il Gatopardo, or a De Sica movie? And more important, could they understand them or watch them till the end? Can a common today’s person keep the concentration and analize something, when they have been formed to be passive viewers who just sit back, open the eyes, and let the film simply happen?

I'm so old I knew what "Rosebud" was the moment I heard it. Now most people would not! Interesting inversion....

Some great points are made here. I want to add to the discussion about "cinema dying" as a cinephile, Chinese, and Gen Z. China, with its second-large population, should bear a vast film market. However, due to censorship, we don't have a theatre culture here; all the films shown are sub-par, blockbusters, or, in recent years, tasteless, unoriginal crime/thrillers arguably many times worse than your average Hollywood film. It's well-known that most consumers here are exposed to and brainwashed by fast-paced, simple-minded, and occasionally propaganda content. The poor aesthetics and concepts from theatres trained audiences to view films impulsively and with a narrow mind. In that case, one can argue that this might not necessarily be bad, as it distinguishes critical-minded individuals from crowds, in the same way the niche market is determined by the popularity of the masses. In my opinion, the real issue is the boom of social media, namely TikTok, has become a more significant threat to the art of films. Hundreds of thousands of film summaries are flooded on Chinese TikTok(DouYin), and I call them "summaries" because they simply strip a film to it's core. The most basic plot structure of the entire film is explained within three minutes in an AI generated voice, with the same cliche suspenseful/melancholy music playing in the background. These AI commentators uses slangs and colloquials to express the film with the greatest subjectivity or oftentimes humor, in order to grab the audiences attention. The target audience of such films range from teenagers to a delivery guy on his motor to the dad who wants to pass some time on his toilet seat. These film summaries garner tens of thousands of likes. I've seen on several occasions, great films from Tarantino, Scorsese, Lars Von Trier, Yorgos Lanthimos, Michael Haneke etc undergoing this immoral, degrading treatment. There are several explanations behind this appalling phenomenon: lack of copyright laws in China causing films and clips to be pirated and shown on any websites, social media, short attention span of the generation and demand for dopamine hits rather than immersion. But whatever the reason, the sad truth is that so many great films are shown(an act that should've been praised) to more people but in such a belittling way. Without any of it's artistic values retained, people think that the suspensful, violent or epiphany bits of a movie are what movies really and is all about. People don't care about movies, and with the help of these film summary "content creators", your favorite directors is just another appetizer for someone who scrolls through more films than you would ever see in a month. Film have became entertainment, and cinema is dead.

I've never been a fan of Citizen Kane, it's great but I never thought it was an all gime great, but I cannot deny the impact the film had on Hollywood

The masses have never understood great art anyway. Welles made 4 or 5 films that go beyond Citizen Kane artistically, but people just want to talk about scholcksterpieces like Shawshank or The Dark Knight. The more dumbed down the better. If anything I think this is a phase and in the long run Welles will outlive all of the biggest filmmakers today.

I like Citizen Kane. Better than many movies released these years anyway with all the available references, budget, talent, and technology

I feel like I inspired this somehow with my slagging off of Citizen Kane in comparison with Memories of Murder? 🤣

I think , the world has become less simple, less time for people to put thought on to other things rather than their careers and lives with stressing economies , if you ask any teenager in the 40’s and 50’s what they wanted to become when they grow up , they would’ve said a good job , good wife couple of children and a own house . Now you ask ourselves, we are breed with capitalism ideology of money , more money , over whelming more money . These are eating our brains 24x7 . We don’t have the capacity nor the patience to watch such films anymore

Love the videos, man. Keep it up!!!

Just found your channel and watched about 5 videos in a row. Loving your work man 👍🏻

sorry, you're wrong on this one, buster. Citizen Kane is considered bad now because new generations are too sensitive to cockatoo jump scares.

I get that the film had some groundbreaking cinematography but just on its own it’s just boring. It took me starting it three times to get through it. There are other movies from that era I have enjoyed but CK just bored me

I'd watch any 80 year old plus movie over any marvel movie anyday.

This is “neither here nor there” - so far as the average movie fan is concerned - but some “big wigs” in the Media Industry don’t care for a central element in “Citizen Kane” - its caustic look at the power of Media moguls. Kane is modelled on Randolph Hearst - google the latter. Possibly those disaffected with the Mainstream Media of today could lead a campaign for the average person to “rewatch” Citizen Kane - whatever your politics, the issue of media power is as relevant as ever !

You're not a film enthusiast until you've heard a film student complain about Citizen Kane 😂

Nice video. Tangentially, Dick Cavett really was the was the worst host who got the best guests for years and years. I'm always seeing clips of his show because of the great interviewees he had, but he is just such a waste of space interviewer; shallow, ignorant, basic in the most derogatory way.

Meh. Footnote? One: I don't care, as the films I hold up the most regard are not even known today. I hope though I can give them a little push. Otherwise: I realised something like 10 years ago, when re-watched Matrix 1: it no longer holds up. Because its main thing was spectacle. And spectacle will be outshined. The second is: simply pacing. Older, and I mean the older pictures are simply way slower. And has much less content. Like I tried to watch The Twilight Zone series, and those 40 minutes for their one twist at the end simply no longer worth my time. They were ok-to-good back then, but now ... And there are the films that's only relevant when they were made. --- What I suggest is - revise the list of "best movies of all times" time to time. Because a lesser movie can be more timeless. More entertaining. More creative in some aspect. There are movies I can suggest to you from whenever, which I can guarantee you'll at least not hate, and won't get bored of. But would I remove Citizen Kane from film-schools? No! Some films belong to the museum/library of professionals. But museums are not home-entertainment, can we agree?

I just use IMDb for info (like a database lol) and as a quasi-blog for reviews. The whole list thing...its fun debate but all subjective. Cumulatively they can give you a small idea on what "majority likes". Sports media is huge into lists so I get it lol

3:01 I’m just confused why Vertigo is considered by many to be the greatest film of all time. I wouldn’t even put it in the top 5 best Hitchcock films of all time.

fantastic video , subbed!

You missed a major fact though. Citizen Kane didn't make an instant impression on film when it was made. It was all but forgotten until a French director rediscovered it and declared it to be a masterpiece almost 20 years after it was made, then the movie world took notice for the next 50 years or so.

People move on. Shakespeare used to be big during his time.

Citizen Kane was never a good movie.

Look man...I like your videos, but when the Sight & Sound (once serious and respected) turns into a meaningless excrement and puts meaningless, boredom/vomit inducing junk like Jeanne Dielman 🤢 (it is not a movie, it can hardly be considered as a video material) as the No1 movie of all times 🥴🤮🙄 (and not as a joke), it becomes not only irrelevant but an imperative to be avoided and forgotten!

IMDB is also the democratization of film by people that don’t have great taste or knowledge of film. The fact that Lawrence of Arabia is 100 and Vertigo is 102 invalidates the list completely. How on earth are the Green Mile, Forest Gump and the Prestige in the top 75…like I said the list is not great at all.