When History Repeats: A Tale of Two Mothers 

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Fun fact, Agripinna had been exiled to some island and had spent some time there sponge diving. She was an excellent swimmer.

The random guy who became emperor was actually a time traveler who stopped the marriage between Irene and Charlemagne to prevent something terrible.

Agripinna: mostly known as Nero's mother Irene: known as Empress Irene the mother of who?

BUT MOOOMMMM! - Every Prince with his mother as his Regent ever

Irene is one of those cases where I do feel that you can make a moral argument that she was reprehensible. even by the times she lived in, because of what she did to her own child for power. (ps I include Constantine the 1 for the same reasons).

The buzzer beater finesse of lying your way into the emperorship is crazy

At least one of those women had her her own son blinded and led to his agonizing death.

2 Constantines on the wheel is a nice touch.

The best part is that young Nero didn't even want to be the emperor

Ah another lovely video that is sure to have a happy ending.

Ever since I first learned about the Charlemagne/Irene proposal, I have been so fascinated by the prospect. I really need to look and see if anyone has written any alternate history fiction about it.

Jack, Hatshepsut of Egypt is the iteration of this story where the Queen in question wins - never loses power but reins for 20 years as the only (one of two - forgot Cleopatra) female Pharoah of Egypt. There were other powerful Queens Regent of Egypt, but all of them ruled for their sons. Hatshepsut was the only one to get the court and country to acknowledge her as full Pharoah in her own right. Her claim by bloodline was as strong, if not stronger than her stepson's and Egyptian law did not actually prohibit female rule at that time - probably because no one imagined the possibility socially. It meant there was no legal impediment, but she must have been a master of statescraft and a force of will, because she would have needed to get the priesthood/aristocracy behind her to support her claim. She not only did, but kept that support, even after her stepson came of age. Egypt's natural system of rulership may have aided this, since co-regency was a common thing that many pharoahs did. It served to provide a smooth transition of power and clear heir, to have the old pharoah and new pharoah share power for a while. So instead of having to choose one over the other, Egypt could simply recognize them both. The widespread idea that she dressed up in male clothes to enforce her authority is inaccurate however. Statues of her depict her female shape and in hieroglyphs her name and the word for Pharoah are made feminine. The false beard was a part of the royal insignia and worn by every Pharoah as a sign of kingship. Even the male ones with their own beards.

That ending. You can't tease me with the HRE and the Byzantine Empire merging only for it to be derailed by a rando pulling a political Leeroy Jenkins that actually works. That's just not fair. Stupid RNG ruining perfect political machinations! Also we need the option to pull that stunt in Crusader Kings 3. XD

Babe, wake up! Jack just dropped a new Roman history video! And this time it's a two for one!

Cassius Dio was a artist indeed. My favorite contemporary historian.

How could she kill her own son before he sired a grand child for her?

When I was in junior high school taking Latin for a language, my teacher gave us all Julio-Claudian names that we had to research and use in class. I orginally hated that he gave me Agrippina [the Younger] because of the way it sounded... until I researched her. She is by far one of my favorite bad girls of history. I'm so excited to learn about her more successful successor

With that title, I though for sure this was gonna be about Marie Antoinette and Alexandra Feodorovna...

i absolutely lost my shit when the "I lied" banners rolled out

The "Emperor is right wheel" haha

Charlemagne and Irene...I'm just gonna sit here in the corner and think about what level of insane history we missed out due to Random Finance Minister, starting with the Gordon's "The Fools' Guild" series.

"History doesnt repeat itself, but it rhymes!" I really enjoy being a student of history. The truth tends to be stranger than fiction. Something personal i am working on, is refraining from leaving comments that are a wall of text. Something i have noticed though, if you google a history question, and google directly shows you a paragraph answer. That answer is usually very incorrect, borderline false

Feels like Catherine the Great of Russia was the third part of this trilogy of overbearring mothers.

charlemagne-Irene power couple is a very potent idea to think about.

Just commenting for engagement purposes. Keep doing what you're doing Jack.

What is this, a crossover episode? (but seriously, I LOVE how you connected these two figures across time; so many people forget that the byzantine empire WAS the roman empire!)

To paraphrase a famous crooner, she did it her way.

History doesn't repeat. But it often rythmes

Irene of Athens & Wu Zetian would be a much more apt comparison.

Suggestion: When all the heirs are dead and you have to make do: Henry VII and his victory in the wars of the roses. Lovef the video jack! You're awesome

Haha imagine keeping secret religious iconography and your husband actually being somewhat mad. :,D the priorities back then! :,D

loving the longer format. Rackam up Jack!

Irene and Agrippina: How to beat the shit out of everyone while also being the most "interesting" mothers of their times...

Constantine the dung named is a widely underrated emperor because of iconophiles, which denigrate his rule because of iconoclasm, most of the stories from the iconophiles were outright propaganda. And most Scholars agree that iconoclasm was not issue for the common folk but more an internal church and elitist debate. It only became ratified that the icons were central to orthodoxy under Irene.

This is a good companion video to your Nero video from all those years ago lol

You’re funny man. Your videos are a bright spot in my day and one of the only things that make me laugh . Thanks my man

reminds me of your old videos i like it Good job jack rackam always my favourite

That finance minister is a Giga Chad. The problem with people today is that they don’t have the confidence to walk into the White House and declare themselves president.

Nikephoros I then did a decent job fixing the finances and moved greeks back to the peninsula leading to the later revival. But also did pretty bad militarily ultimately resulting in him dying in battle, and Krum the khan of the bulgars turning his skull into a drinking cup.

The amount of times I rewatch this video is ridiculous. Your delivery is perfect. I love it.

Happy New Year, Jack!

Remember the OG Title: "When History Repeats: A Tale of Two Empresses"

Happy new year jack! Love your content ! Look forward to another amazing year! Hearth please 😊😊😊❤❤❤

My 2 year old sings your intro song every time I watch you.

Some recent histories of this period are of the opinion that the role of iconoclasm was deliberately exaggerated because it was seen by later historians as a more appropriate legacy to be a pious woman than where her real successes lay--even if the army under her suffered reverses against the caliphate, the empire simultaneously was extremely successful at beginning to recover the fragmented Balkans, acquiring huge amounts of new subjects that strengthened the empire in the long run, especially after Nikephoros "random finance minister" I completely reworked the economy from the ground up to make it actually work efficiently after centuries of neglect. Despite the usurpations, they were a powerful one-two combo for the empire's recovery!

Great choice of music "They have it! Canned bread!"

What a loving mother

It’s crazy how long Twitter has been around. Since Roman times.

I love this channel

Wow, love it!!!!

Messalina tried overthrowing Claudius by marrying her lover, and was executed. Then Byzantine Empress Zoe pulled the same trick centuries later and succeeded.

I see what you did there, with the viking guy! Well played!

to paraphrase Twain History does not repeat but it does often rhyme

Just finished watching I, Claudius again so cheers for this

Another great video. Surely this will have a happy ending ! Its roman after all

Imagine if the talks of marriage between Charlemagne and Irene actually succeeded and they had a son....

The flannel shirt and Subaru were a nice touch.

Love the Shakespeare reference at 15:00.

Two for one! Love it 😁

Wonder if Irene knew about Agripinna…

Thank you.

Ok, the ending made me laugh out loud.

Also do a short on sporus!

Never!! Never wondered about a book!! Mostly due to the predictive writing styles. What one should do is basically read a few lines on each page till something interesting comes up.

I love Psyduck.

Hatshepsut enters the chat

But... such was life for Uncle Claudius.

Holy shit that was metal asf.

Ngl im high and the time jump around 4:12 - 4:16 made me rewind a few times

Irene my sweet. Im glad we are getting more eastern roman history.

should honestly make a video about King Karl bernadotte From nothing to became only successful France General from Napoleon and his family stile lives today

I thought you would talk about an ancient Emma and her two mothers.

boy I sure do love commenting on these

Oh, that would have been interesting, damn. Probably wouldn't have lasted very long, but like, imagine if it had, even just as something like the HRE

3:10 Rome may have lost half its empire when the west fell but it somehow lost 90% of its names too

2:13 hey! Bootsie!

Wow 2 videos for the price of one

I thought that would be Agrippina/Nero and Julia Soeamias/Elagabalus, that went less than well too

"She was accused of killing her husband, and was turned on by all of her closest allies." Same! 😳😚😘 ...Oh, you mean betrayed? Yeah, umm, same.

Damn she was playing ck2 goooodd.

I knew this story sounded extremely familiar then I saw Nero lol

Lore of When History Repeats: A Tale of Two Mothers momentum 100

7:28 - There's a soldier wearing something that reminds me of...😏

please do kim jun military dictator of goryeo

You aren't commenting on the choice of the island of Lesbos because that was totally random and unintentional?

Hell yeah, irene

what are your sources for this video? 🥺

Why do these parents seem to set their children up to fail?

i wonder, if Rome was once rulled by functional family, what would have happened

Why Brazil Should have become a Superpower The Life - Times of Pedro II

Plutarch Rackam

Honestly, given what Agripina and Caligula’s father Tiberius was accused of by Suetonius and likely did to them, it’s not exactly shocking how messed up they both were.

Honestly, Irene's plan wouldn't have worked. The Franks weren't recognized as true heirs to rome in the west. The Romans in the East only considered themselves heirs to that legacy. Also, There would have been rebellions against this union from the start. It would have drained both empires to maintain control. The end result would have been either both empires crumbling into dust, or these empires splitting back up, both in very weak positions afterwards.

Hilarious to me that two of the names on the Wheel of Imperial Names are Constantine :p

One of the first 20!!

Constantine VI, also known as Constantine "the Blinded”, was emperor of the Byzantine Empire from 780 to 797 CE, although for most of his reign his mother, Irene the Athenian, ruled as regent. When Constantine did finally get a go at ruling in his own right, he was anything but successful. Deposed by his own mother, Constantine was infamously blinded by her in the royal palace and, as was the intention, he died from his injuries. Constantine was the son of Leo IV (r. 775-780 CE) and when, in 780 CE, his father died of fever, aged just 30, Constantine became emperor Constantine VI. However, as the new emperor was still a minor at nine or ten years of age, his mother Empress Irene ruled as his regent, a role she performed until 790 CE. Irene had immediate problems and had to quash a rebellion led by the other sons of Constantine V (r. 741-775 CE) and half-brothers of Leo IV. Once that was dealt with, she ensured the loyalty of the palace entourage by dismissing any ministers and military commanders of questionable affiliation. To this end, she trusted two court eunuchs, in particular, Staurakios and Aetios. Irene attempted to further entrench her position by arranging a marriage alliance with the Franks and promising Constantine to Rotrude, the daughter of the Franks' king Charlemagne. For unknown reasons, Irene changed her mind, though, and in 787 CE she found an alternative wife for her son, one Mary of Amnia, a pious but slightly boring girl selected via the traditional “bride show” which Byzantine rulers organised for their offspring. The Frankish-Byzantine alliance would have been an intriguing one and joined the two halves of the old Roman Empire but the opportunity would come around again, as we shall see. As ever, the borders of the Byzantine Empire needed constant vigilance and defence. Irene enjoyed certain successes against both the Slavs in Greece and Arabs in Asia Minor. Closer to home, Irene convened a Church council in Constantinople in 786 CE which, despite initial opposition from members of the army who thought defeats on the battlefield were God's punishment for the widespread veneration of icons, decreed an official end to iconoclasm, that is, the destruction of icons, a key feature of her predecessor's reigns. The regent then went one step further and invited 350 bishops to the Seventh Ecumenical Council in September 787 CE which ruled to restore the orthodoxy of the veneration of icons in the Christian Church. Unfortunately, the young emperor was not actually up to the task of ruling. Serious and immediate defeats against the Bulgars and a shameful truce against the Arabs did nothing to aid his popularity. Even on the battlefield, where an emperor might gain some admirers for heading his own troops, Constantine's cowardice had been revealed as he panicked and fled before the enemy. In a bizarre postscript, Constantine VI did, in a sense, later return from the dead in the guise of the usurper Thomas the Slav, who led a rebellion against emperor Michael II (r. 820-829 CE) between 821 and 823 CE. Thomas, to add legitimacy to his otherwise spurious claim to the Byzantine throne, spread about the story that Constantine VI had not, in fact, died when his mother Irene had blinded him but had managed to escape Constantinople and he was the very same person, dead set on getting back what was rightfully his. Thomas even had himself crowned emperor in Antioch, but it was all to no avail and his rebellion was quashed by Michael in 823 CE.

cant believe she killed her own SON

Listen to the history of Byzantium podcast to get the full picture

Finally, someone talks about Irene. I am sort of a fanboy of hers not because I approve of her actions of course but because she is an excellent counterpoint to the idiotic school of thought of "if women were in power history would be more peaceful". All of history's girlbosses were as ruthless as the men if not more at times. It's a unifying message of common humanity. We all have the potential to be proper shits.