The disembodiment thing and being more emotionally connected to an anime avatar than your own body is so huge. These kids need yoga!! Or a martial art or any kind of sport. And to run around climbing trees when they’re little 😭
Yes the general disconnect from physical reality is an issue , when your world is a distanced virtual one you are more likely to give real credence to abstract concepts .
Helen Joyce is one of my favorite people to listen to. What a beautiful mind and great sense of humor. I loved her book. It’s clear practical style was easy to read even though the topic can be maddening. I’ve tried to catch all of her recent interviews, which I enjoyed, but this one was particularly interesting because of the unique slant toward writing itself. This conversation is well worth a second listen. Thank you!
Agreed on every point. She is so refreshing. And her book is free of some if the fetters that some other books on the topic have . She is both very analytical/ methodical , and very genuinely engaged in an emotional sense. And if course Benjamin Boyce us the perfect person to interview her ...
Helen Joyce is AWESOME. ❗️❗️ The fact that she is a mathematician keeps her on topic and it means she understands the relationship between logic and theory and when theory has veered off into sheer utter nonsense.
Helen’s example of reducing definitions to their simplest form is why I love her and her clear thinking mind so much. Prime numbers defined does not exclude the elaboration of their function. My mind does not provide me with such wonderful clarity, but I can recognize it in another and feel enormous release of appreciation and understanding. This is my second listen to this presentation and I enjoy it even more than the first.
It's insane. A river can call itself a mountain all it wants. Doesn't make it a mountain. Why they can't seem to apply this to the archetypes of man and woman is wild. Woman is a very specific human archetype based in biology and story. Someone without specific characteristics is not a woman. They can call themselves one, but that's like a monkey calling itself a cat. Cute, but delusional.
I read her book and the three other recent books (Soh, Stock, Shirer) on trans issues and although they were all good, hers is the clearest and most comprehensive. I love this interview.
As a physically disabled woman, I appreciate her astute observation that corporations, which are controlled by individuals, are ignoring the needs of disabled people and women (needs which we cannot control and did not choose) and "rainbow-washing" instead. Not that it should be a competition, but disability rights is not about ideology. As a bisexual woman, I also see the trans movement/epidemic as homophobic as well as misogynistic, whether that prejudice is consciously conceived or not. Some people would rather have a "straight transgender child" than a child with outwardly evident same-sex attraction. I'm finding all of your videos incredibly cathartic and have been bringing them since I discovered your channel last week (through detrans videos).
I read Helen's book a few weeks ago. There was quite a bit of info i was completely unaware of. I found myself laughing, agog with shock, and immensely frustrated after reading it, but i would 100% recommend to anywhere who is not clear about the implications of gender ideology, and the way it is currently functioning.
If you are not aware, top awards have been won in not only weightlifting and cycling, but track, swimming and marathons. Here are some advantages that are not ever mentioned that are not effected by estrogen. Also, research has shown that some bone structures are actually increased in density. Hormone treatments do very little to overall performance. Most likely due to the many physiological advantages that are not impacted by estrogen. Also, it appears that bone density stays consistent and in certain instances, estrogen increases bone density. Besides visible advantages, such as overall size, there are the following advantages; Heart - Size: By ratio, a woman’s heart and some of its chambers are smaller. Density: The walls that divide some of the chambers are thinner, and the veins are finer. Function: A woman’s heart pumps faster than a man’s, but a man’s heart ejects more blood with each pump. Pulmonary - Females’ reduced airways diameter and lung volume result in lower peak expiratory flow and vital capacity. The most important consequence is women have a smaller maximal flow-volume loop. Their capacity to generate increased ventilation during exercise is, therefore, smaller with respect to men Muscles - Males have a greater ratio of fast twitch muscles; Fast twitch muscles are optimized for short, intense activities, such as: Sprinting, powerlifting, strength training and high-intensity cycling. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3
Helen, you're saying what every Irish woman I've spoken to about this subject is saying, "but of course" to. You can imagine their shock when I tell them they would be considered a horrible TERF for their views. The conversation inevitably ends with a laugh and an eyeroll, because of the ridiculousness of trans ideology. Ill keep peaking Irish women one at a time your book will be my latest tool 😊 Benjamin, thanks for another great interview. 👍
Listening to this delightful conversation raised my spirits. I have Helen Joyce's book on order and look forward to reading it. Thank you Benjamin and Helen.
American feminism went wrong when they stopped centering women and became more interested in "intersectional" feminism which became a euphemism for not centering women, but rather to focus on other (male inclusive) struggles, such as racism, homophobia, classism, etc.. American feminists were guilt tripped into not centering women. They were told they were privileged, classist, racist, etc. for focusing on women. So they started focusing on everything else, like defending autogynephiles rights to claim that they are women.
I love Helen, and I love all your conversations with her. I'm so glad she talks about hierarchy and how we value the things men are good at, but not the things women are good at. Why can't we appreciate each other and not treat life like a competition?
No one ever talks about this! I feel like third-wave feminists ironically, by dogmatically hammering the idea that in the absence of societal sexism women would naturally behave IDENTICALLY to men and that women HAVE to be treated EXACTLY THE SAME as men in order to be equal to men and thereby become fully-actualized, totally liberated humans with the full rights that men have conspired to deny them since the beginning of time, accidentally had the effect of imparting a lot of internalized sexism into girls like me who were coming of age in the early-2010s. If you didn't behave and act exactly like a man while still continuing to juggle society's ever more overwhelming expectations of female beauty, well then you were just a self-hating womxn denying yourself true liberation. You want to get married and be a mother one day? How disgusting and unenlightened! You get a bit more emotional on or around your period? Ridiculousness! Your body's natural hormonal and reproductice cycle that you experience every single month is a myth made up by men to infantalize you, you silly little oppressed woman-child! And what's all this crazy talk of seeking out a long-term, loving relationship with a man? Good men are a lie made up by those evil, right-wing Christian women to prevent you from experiencing the true liberation of selling your body to on the street like a real #empowered girl! Y'all think I'm exagerating but waaaaay too many supposed feminists were more or less saying this shit a decade a go. Hell, even today I and my other bisexual female friends who are in relationships with men are constantly bombarded with the most snearing, smug jokes from other queer women about how it must be so horrible to be in a committed relationship with a man and how men are the worst and how if straight women were smart they would learn to love pussy. Meanwhile these bitches be drinking all the time crying about how fucked up their unstable relationships are with their crazy girlfriends while I'm sitting there like, "Damm if being a victim of patriarchy means enjoying the wonderful, soul-healing love that I share with my boyfriend, who has done more to teach me self-love, self-acceptance and body acceptance than any woman in my life ever has (including the ones I dated), then sign me up!" When you're a confused young woman, instead of learning to feel good enough as the woman you are, you just come away from this shit feeling like the cruel universe is denying you the ultimate happiness of being a man and reaping the benefits of patriarchy. No wonder so many girls like me tried to escape being female by letting ourselves be convinced we were trans.
In 1980 I was hired as rock venue Ladies Room Police on payroll to throw out any guys that I found in there. 2014 a black trans woman lived in my apartment for about 3 or 4 months. Seems like the activists aren't really helping the people.
Hi Benjamin - thank you for another great conversation with HJ who I first came across in your first interview with her. I knew her book would be a game-changer and waited eagerly for the publication date this year because I thought she would be interviewed on MSM about it. However, BBC, Sky and ITV have shown to be completely gutless (check out Helen on GB News with Andrew Doyle and Spiked's Brendan O'Neill for whirlwind brilliance) but now I'm really hoping Rogan, Murphy, Peterson, Rubin, Heather & Brett, Fox, Daily Wire, Anderson don't miss the opportunity - Helen speaks up for us, i.e. the vast majority of people who agree with her but are blocked out, ignored, silenced by the woke elite who run our institutions. Thank you again and keep up the good work.
Helen Joyce: a name I've heard many times, though I'd yet to meet her in an interview (your previous interviews must have pre-dated my Benjamin awakening... oh those innocent, pre-Calmversation days). 😂 Good interview, as always.
@@milkglassfairy7641 do it. It was a very informative book. As a trans person who deals with gender dysphoria myself I wasn't sure what I would think. I didn't agree with 100% of everything she said but Iearned a lot. I have audible myself and it's definitely worth the credit.
I think Joyce is just what we need, someone who won't be shaken by nonsense or forced to submit to the tyranny of the mob. Please do a follow up interview with her when her book is available in the U.S., I'm sure she will have a lot more to say once the book hits our shore.
Great interview Benjamin. The Incredible Helen! Science, art, motherhood and now politics. It would seem there is nothing she cannot do with exceptional skill (you don't make me feel inferior at all!). The fact that her grown children are still talking to her confirms the exceptional motherhood part; two of my three haven't talk to me for years. But she is a true XX warrior; the kind of human we desperately need in positions of power. Hopefully Rogan sees and knows how to appreciate it, though I think I heard he has Covid. Hope he's okay. But with Helen, it is UNBELIEVABLE then that where I live in New Zealand the main public library in the capital city of Wellington has refused several requests to stock her best-selling, brilliantly written and totally topical book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are all up in a rage over it here, by 'all' I mean the local Speak Up for Women group in particular. But if the US is ground zero of wokism and Canada is 'worse', as Helen I think quite rightly says, then New Zealand with a female PM (so more compassionate to the allegedly or apparently marginalised trans) who was also raised Mormon and left the church in support of her gay and bi, and I think even trans, friends when she was quite young is worse than worse. And the same goes for our women's groups - The Women's Centre group that was hard feminist for more than 30 years has been transed, as has the National Council of Women founded by our most famous suffragette Kate Sheppard, and even our Ministry of Women. We have this world leading women's ministry, one of the world's first and only dedicated ministry's of and for women, using its preciously inadequate resources to send out press releases and replies to concerned emails that 'there is no debate' on this issue for the ministry, 'trans women are women' and completely supporting the self-id bill and the 'anti-conversion therapy' bill too that conflates gay with trans to threaten parents who show caution - 'conversion' - when their child says they are the opposite sex with prison time for not being 'affirming' enough, is being rushed through the public consultation process as we speak. We are all being encouraged to make submissions against them but, as ever, women are already so overworked. I am writing this very quickly and with stolen time from my essential lock-down late-afternoon walk but my submissions will have to wait longer than my walk. I am also supposed to be finishing a book on a not entirely unrelated subject in fact. Anyhoo, apologies for my finger ramble; I must go for my leg ramble now. My XY is waiting. But thanks BB (BAB?) and big congrats Helen on your MASSIVE book!! Will read sooon! Am presently reading Rachel Cusk's 'A Life's Work' on the perils of early motherhood, absolutely stunning, then comes Deborah Levy's final memoir 'Real Estate', totally can't wait - that's also on motherhood - then Trans. Go women writers!!
In Helen Joyce I’ve found a public speaking women who reflects my views. I hope Sam Harris is brave enough to have her of when her book comes out in the US.
Great interview and discussion! Loved the Baptist/Bootlegger analogy...it perfectly encapsulates the Post-modern/Corporate symbiosis, except that Baptists and illegal distillers are so much less of a threat to pure and applied sciences. Glenn Lowry had something similar...when he said that every time he hears the epithet "racist", his brain inserts the word "witch".
Wow she is amazing. Thank you both for this talk. It's nice to hear rationale, especially since most people I know are entirely wrapped up in delusion, including myself.
Fantastic! For a long time I thought I was plunging into an existencial crisis of my own invention seeing walls closing behind & around in a senseless parody of reality. Now I know many people are going through the same crisis…
Hi, I’ve run into 4 woke people this past year, and so have been researching what is going on, as I hadn’t come across that vibe since people used to try to convert me to religion, etc. DiAngelo’s book was (actually) recommended to me by a woman who works at the DV healing center I go to. This troubled me, as they actually teach cult abuse there. I have enough compassion for the people caught up in it, though, because I do believe this stuff preys on trauma and is designed for people who can’t think for themselves (one trait of trauma), as I have not met one mentally well person involved in this. Only people who have unresolved trauma. 🍀 Cheers
Triple thumbs up. I'm tired of discussing abstracts, 'systems' and politics as if we're ice-skating on a frozen lake. Below all this 'intellectual' discussion lies the heart of the issue: human nature, human personalities and trauma. I can't wait for the conversation to finally start burrowing deeper into the causes of all the mess humanity makes, complete with the idea of glamour and smoke'n'mirrors. I love your comment but the world is just not ready for you to begin conversations like this; certainly not one on one debates or discussions. People in question haven't the self-awareness (you explained why very well in your comment) and would be mortified to have the gloss chipped off their façade. They are unable and also unwilling to reveal much about their true motivations or deep rooted personality issues. There's a lot of artifice in all this, a lot of faux-anger and the knee-jerk generation of completely synthetic outrage-- not to mention ludicrous hypocrisy and sanctimony. People never pause for thought, have you noticed? They MUST have the answers for everything. Such monumental hubris. It's sad that it's not noticed and discussed in civil, honest conversations in pubic.
I'm convinced a large proportion of the uberwoke types have narcissistic personality disorder. I've been through narcissistic abuse myself and can spot the style, the double binds, projection, blameshifting, moving the goalposts etc.
@@tomemery7890 The horror show unfolds when you start looking at why it is that supposedly 'normal' and ordinary everyday folks back it all and assume that if you're against their world view you are morally inferior. A handful of radical fringe groups is one thing, but listen to those in real authority these days, the politicians and allegedly erudite, reasonable 'grown ups' who are parroting this nonsense. It's THEM I'm most fascinated by. I have lefty friends who are well-meaning, horribly naive and ignorant but ultimately combat averse yet will sanctimoniously suggest their perspective and their brand of activism (read: sloganeering, ignorance and mob-think) as peaceful and 'right' and oddly, the people who disagree are the hate-filled 'fascists' and 'racists'. People are made into crude caricatures and the real villains who give us the fluffy, smiley, 'good' act are taken at face value. Everybody else is 'Hitler' or to be more modern and colloquial, the dad in Dead Poet's Society. Haha! It's unreal to see adults doing this cartoonish smearing of character. Do they TRULY think that they can label every opposing viewpoint as evidence of 'fascism' or 'racism' or some 'hate-fuelled phobia'???! Again, it's the many that interest me these days and not the few. It's utterly mortifying to see how dumb so many are-- and I mean on both sides of this bogus, tribal, prescriptive 'left/right' paradigm. Sorry, but there's no other way of putting it. Before 'the culture wars' erupted I was navigating my way through society in a flatteringly soft lighting conditions, completely oblivious to how dopey and poorly integrated all these supposedly educated and intelligent adults were. Now we see the emperor has no clothes and it's...horrifying. I really do despair, it's horribly depressing. I like to think better of people and it's difficult in 2021.
@@tomemery7890 That caught my eye, also. I went through that type of abuse also, so did a lot of research into the cluster B personality styles and traits, so I never get myself into that again. And I do think Robin DiAngelo is either incredibly on the autistic spectrum or on the NPD/psychopathic spectrum. I can’t tell. But the real in person people I was attracting did have a lot of borderline traits (you’re probably familiar with that). Quite different than just having ptsd or complex-ptsd, because they don’t think there’s anything’s wrong with them, they don’t want to heal themselves, and they ultimately want power and to control others before they even heal their own stuff. That’s twisted. I don’t want to make a generalized statement, as I know there are likely a lot of people who are caught in the middle of this, like peer pressure, and to “be good” they are just repeating the phrases they are supposed to when they come around it. Like the most kind and gentle people saying “Yes, I am racist because I was born into and participated in a system that oppressed other people.” These people, there is hope for, as they will start digging for alternative points of view, because something probably feels very off to them. The people I ran into at first I thought we’re all in trauma, but upon reflection, I see bits of borderline (narcissism) in the dominate and control part of they’re personalities. And one, specifically was not ignorant, she wants to tear down the whole system. ☮️
@@ciganyweaverandherperiwink6293 You are a great writer. Or a potent and jam packed with intelligence, one. I remember I wanted to get back to you, but roll thoughts around in my head for a few days. You did it again. I keep learning new stuff from people. Basically “like” to everything you said, and I may come back with some specific questions. I’m trying to get my head on all the way straight with this stuff going around. I’m not drawn to the left vs right anymore, just sanity and people truth telling. ☮️
The discussion of definitions is so important. I feel if we still taught Plato and Aristotle we wouldn't have these problems. They are very clear on the importance of properly defining terms.
Excellent interview. A top quality conversation on an important topic. Better than any documentary I’ve seen on any TV channels, not that they would be brave enough to expose this particular emperor with no clothes…. Thank you.
What is noteworthy is that every single bookstore I've EVER been in this past few years, especially the ones in Hay on Wye in Wales are horribly lefty-woke-Marxist ones. I venture deliberately into every single section in every single bookshop I see if I have the time. I study the titles on offer in sections like Economics; American Politics, History; Sociology; Gender and Sexual Health; Military History; Philosophy; British History-- and this is not to even mention fiction and basic new releases. 99% of the books are by the woke-intersectionist-Marxist-trans-Critical Race Theory mob. Why aren't people talking about this? There are books in all of those categories, obviously, but the political and ideological bent of ALL of the authors clearly lean sympathetically or even blatantly towards the aforementioned crowd: there's no balance in those areas WHATSOEVER. It's blatant engineering and has nothing whatsoever to do with 'consumer demand'. It scares the crap out of me, wondering which direction this hideous, arrogant type of curation will take in the future. Edit: I actually gasped to see Helen's book in one independent lefty bookstore in Hay on Wye, and because it was so incongruous and stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb I immediately swiped it up and went happily with it to the counter to pay, even though I knew I could buy it cheaper on bloody Amazon ;). I did it to support Helen, loud and proud and in physical reality instead of in the anonymous, shadowy world of online commerce. These bookstore owners are shameful.
Hearing Helen Joyce on feminism is so weird for me. She's saying all the things I heard in (moderate) feminist circles around 1990. Back then, as a weird teenager, I was sometimes uncomfortable with it because it sometimes felt dangerously close to slipping into prescriptive femininity. I also hadn't thought enough about individualism vs collectivism and couldn't quite formulate what it was in this that bothered me. I am much more comfortable with these ideas when they are grounded in statistics (or just how the world observably is right now) than when the grounding is either overtly or covertly in an appeal to emotion or identity.
Having a PhD in maths means she can take this stance with more confidence than say a childcare worker, or a home maker. The false hierarchy has undoubtedly enabled her to garner more gravitas than say someone like Kelly Jay Keen. Posie's cute-as-a-button-home-maker identity is not helping her cause quite as effectively as being a post doc academic author is helping
Reads like you wanna disagree. Somebody you like should produce stats you prefer. Your prescribed feminism is your social circle of friends and lovers. Thats who you've based yourself with and get your marching orders from.at the end of the days debate.
@@andyjarman4958 I totally understand what you're pointing out here. I wish it were acknowledged and discussed in public conversation more. People just get shifty, defensive and start over-processing their ideas, ultimately delivering them half-baked with a side of word salad. It leaves both you and myself, I'd venture to say, unimpressed by the almost comically unpalatable song'n'dance that is the hubristic, blustering chef's performance. Calling a spade a spade is most refreshing; all intellectually and personally honest folks understand straight talk and it tends to be the shifty, arrogant blowhards who pretend not to, or to have a problem with the definitions found in our everyday conversational language. Churning things into a purple froth is not necessary and I'm not sure what the motive is or why so many feel inclined to do it. I'm not often intimidated and impressed by academics who regurgitate the Oxford dictionary as I tend to see the deformed, limited intellect and poorly integrated personality underneath so many of these arrogant, conceited, snotty little foghorns. Rough'n'ready is perfectly fine by me if the quality of thought and zingy, funny, idiosyncratic personality is operating as a lone wolf on the ideological, philosophical tundra. Observant, quirky, funny, fast-paced well integrated thinkers who refuse to be pinned down and constantly look at things from the most unexpected angle are great value. :)
I really like this interview, explaining clearly the writing process and why the book was edited the way it was. Well done Helen, this book is a turning point in the GC vs GI debate. Totally agree with the science and feminist bit, that is 1 reason I never claimed to be a feminist with a genetics degree and postgraduate science qualifications. The 2nd reason was the very white face of 2nd wave feminism.
Congrats Boyce and meeting the hard-sciences mind! When you actually try to build and test with ideas, it quickly becomes apparent that you do need to lift your thinking somewhat. There's a lot missing from a humanities education. They don't even know that they don't know.
Listening to people talk and reason their way through a subject is a positive relief compared to the rubbish of news reports that at best is vacuous drooling and lazy
Lovely azaleas. And I think Jane Austen is great for engendering good relations between the sexes, her books main protagonists always end up highlighting the better aspects of men and women.
Re. Helen's question at the end; I sometimes wonder if the "black bodies" and "birthing bodies" talk is a way of leaning into the emotive/non-rational aspect of their ideology. Almost like saying "You guys are squares who live inside your heads, while we're authentic people living inside our bodies".
It's a holdover from the roots of this ideology in post-structuralism: Michel Foucault argued in opposition to humanist critiques of modernity - which chastise modern society for impeding on the human "essence" - that the fundamental locus of modern power relations is instead the human body. It was a faux insight when Foucault when coined it in "Discipline and Punish" and isn't any more profound an idea when activists use it today.
GAWD, I love this her. Re: “black bodies”. I first came across this phrase in Coates. (Over and over and over - ugh!) It annoyed me, since it’s overuse telegraphed both ‘I am using an cheap trick in order to emotionally affect you’ and ‘I am quite pleased with myself for being literary and deep’. I took Coates’ use of “black bodies” as yet another instance of him trying to imitate James Baldwin. Whomever first used it in the Critical Theory realms... I betcha they stole it from Baldwin. *EDIT* - Also: I’d LOVE to hear that podcast with you and Helen hosting! You two are great together. :)
I can always tell when a woman was not poor in the 1980s and 90s, because she does not know that poor women were almost forced into hysterectomies when we needed tubal ligations or birth control. I wanted a tubal ligation and could not take birth control pills and I could have gotten a hysterectomy in a heartbeat. (But) I refused and at 60 years old and 15 years post-menopausal I am fully intact and as far as I know not completely mad from still having all my female body parts. I don't know of anyone who makes it through menopause with their parts intact. And that is a deeply misogynistic thing to me. I have felt hated my whole life for being female. Now I am being erased by males who think they can BE ME.
Male and female are biological definitions. Just like the word cell, in biology this is the smallest unit of a living organism, in physics its a circuit component that generates a potential difference.
@@BenjaminABoyce Yes, his show on GBNews is great. As was his interview with Helen Joyce. Hope you can squeeze something in. (A reply from BB has made my day)
Most sinister is that we are suppose to deny the veracity of our very senses.Arson is peaceful protest.silence is violence,Ingress is Insurrection,and of course men are woman.
People do think you're nuts when you talk about any of this. I graduated in 2013 when most departments were relatively normal and spent the next 3 years telling my mother how nuts everything was becoming because I followed things like what happened in Evergreen. She told me recently that until she went back a couple of years later for her masters and actually heard the insane ideology straight out of the horse's mouth, she thought I had lost my mind. That also explains why she would look at me like I was being unreasonable when I absolutely refused to reference the public education materials in any way to homeschool my kids.
Waiting for her book in Canada as well. Also nobody is going to tell me what to laugh at and call ridiculous! It was totally disgraceful to see those male bodies on the female podiums!
About "bodies": I suspect that it is borrowed from some feminist streams. I started to notice it in more woo-woo feminist stuff sometime around 1988. But when I've read older stuff (60ies - 70ies) I've seen it here and there back then too, but pretty fringe and marginal. But my picture is that it started to gather steam sometime around 1990. The usage of "bodies" is sort of seductive because it can be used both in a high-falutin quasi philosophical way ("the haute couture model's hip measurement is an embodiment of the misogyny of male homosexual culture"), and it can also be used to underscore a sort of visceral horror ("the female body in the delivery room as a battlefield between surgical and medical cultures"). Especially the latter usage lends itself very well to discussions of race, slavery, trafficking etc. But when you decouple the use of "body" from the quasi-philosophical ideas of embodiment, the body as a stage for expression (fashion histories, ethnograhy etc) and primarily only go for the visceral it very quickly becomes dehumanising. I don't like conspiratorial thinking, and honestly believe this is not some male-cis-white-western-supremacy plot but rather just sloppy jargon escaping into spaces where it has no place. But one could argue that everytime "body/bodies" are used instead of "person/persons" it is subtle way of dehumanising whoever you are talking about. This is particularly apparent when talking about groups, where it is already a struggle to remember that members of the group are individuals. Just think about it: What better way to make people distance themselves from their own oppression (historical or otherwise) than to talk about the oppressed as a blank mass of bodies? (We also now have enough subtle indoctrination into thinking of "body" as object, not subject. Who wants to opt-in to being objects rather than actors?) Being North European I'm a bit hesitant about the whole American race thingy. But where talking about female bodies made a tiny bit of sense (in the way that it is a reminder that female bodies are different to male bodies) in the context of feminism, it seems to me that it is just utterly destructive in the race/ethnicity context. You could argue (I think I just did) that "body" is a salient distinguisher when talking about males and females, but when it comes to skin colour or hair texture or whatever the de-humanising aspect of using "body" instead of "person" is just so overwhelming. It also doesn't *work* on the micro-level. You can't exactly pinpoint a persons culture or identity based on physical attributes. When you do that it is called racism.
@@Vibez-o5k Thanks to you both for pointing that out. Foucault actually fits very well with what probably inspired the feminist stuff I was reading ca 1990. Loads of references to all those big names - typical title could be something like: "Comments on Kristeva's take on X, as compared to Foucault's and Derrida's concept of Y"
Yes oh yes. This idea that every time there is difference, there is a hierarchy, is ridiculous and has to be dumped. I really wish the phrase “separate but equal” hadn’t been ruined by segregation because different but equal is what we should be aiming for. No we are not identical and vive la différence!
1:22:26 Well, if I may, the concept of "bodies" in their rhetoric actually comes from the thought of Michel Foucault. It underlines the idea that the bodies are always subdued to dispositive of knowledge/power. In other words, it refers to the famous "biopolitics" concept ties to the work of Foucault.
