I just put a new cable on my 20 year old DA groupset every once in a while, give it a 2 min clean and it just works like new every time. Brakes never need adjusting either. I have friends with Di2 who've had to ditch the whole groupset before even a decades use because the parts are inoperable and unobtainable. The throwaway society isn't for me, and it's not what the world needs right now.... or probably ever again.
Being a truly "Old Guy", 73, whenever I look at new, fancy electronic gear I think, "Something else to break...". I think the bike industry is just like any other in that they must innovate or die. We as consumers have been conditioned to always want the "Latest and Greatest" of whatever we're interested in. For transparency, I will say if I ever win the lottery I'll try out all the "Cool" stuff too.
@@veganpotterthevegan thats rubbish. If an electronic shifter fails, its not field repairable, you have to replace it at high cost. When the battery runs down you are screwed until you recharge it, If a wire stretches, you twiddle a thumbscrew or you get a spanner out and reset it, if it breaks, you just replace it for a few pounds, field repairable. I have been riding bikes forever and never had a cable break, replaced yes, break never.
@turdwarbler I have over 300k miles in my legs. I've definitely broken cables. Also was a mechanic for a very long time and I've seen plenty of broken cables.
You're spot on Juliet. Built in obsolescence, endless trends and fads, tech for the sake of it, incompatibility of different firms kit -- none of it is good for cycling, just for profits. I'm staying low tech as long as it's possible
We had 120 spaced frames and freewheels for a while, then 126, then 130 with freehubs. This is nothing new. As things get better, sometimes some old stuff needs to fully go away
As an ex miltary engineer, i have seen and worked on some highly complicated equipment. ComplIicated kit will undoubtedly break when you need it most. I try and follow the mantra of 'keep it simple'. Less to go wrong, easier to fix and cheaper...
One of the things I like about bicycles is that they are mechanical and simple. Adding electronics to the drivetrain is not for me. I could see it for racers, but being able to fix a bike on my own or at least tape the cable into a single gear is preferable to the niftyness of electronic shifting.
The appeal of bikes for me has always been the beautiful simplicity and efficiency. I hate the evolution to complexity, especially when there's little to no benefit. It's kept me from upgrading.
The complexity is largely on the engineers to make things simple for the user. There are rare anecdotes of bad, new gear out of the box but that's always been true
Spot on they are trying to get you to have to go to dealers.. I love rim brakes, mechanical drivetrains, tubes, ally rims, steel, titanium frames etc :) yep I've owned the latest and greatest which I have now sold and prefer the older tech :) works for me.. Pete
The more you complicate the plumbing the easier it is to stuff up the drain.. An old saying but true. I refuse to buy an electronic groupset. I want the simple reliability of mechanical shifters. The world has too many batteries filling our landfills already.
Completely agree Juliet - now the obvious thing you need to do is go talk to your sponsors and other contacts in the bike industry and tell them that it's not on to make unrepairable products and not to offer spare parts. Things won't change if we all keep getting sucked in by marketing bling and buy these products anyway.
This is and was NOT boring!!! This is exactly what I feared in wireless… I’d wanna throw the bike in a river! Not to mention a few years from now… oh, we don’t support software “X”.3.4.whatever. Keep after it Julie as this is inexcusable!
Started mountain biking in the mid 2000s when I turned 18 and worked as a bike mechanic and working and riding bikes back then was just heaven but over time the industry started making new fads and standards and using us the customer as guinea pigs for testing *cough* pressfit bottom brackets *cough* and now having to deal with the lack of quality control when it leaves the Far East. Now everything is not interchangable, every requires constant maintenance and that's if it hasn't already broke and the amount of SRAM parts that would break just out of warranty led me to no longer buy any SRAM parts whatsoever. I miss mountain bikes but these days I just ride single speed/fixed gear road bikes and BMXs, I have no time for planned obsolescence, piss poor build quality and poor quality control.
Prefer tubes and rim brakes - and wouldn't ever consider going to electronic shifting. Propelling yourself on a bike, fuelled by food, but having to rely on batteries 'fuelled' by the grid to change gear. Like using a smartphone as a mirror or having to charge a cigarette.
I’ve been at my bike shop for 38 years - I’ve seen a few changes. Friction shifters were replaced with indexed shifters, but they were still on the down tube, and it was okay because there was a D-ring on the side of the shifter that would turn off the indexing. Then came STI and people worried about index only shifters. By the time the 2nd generation STI shifters came out they were widely accepted. Then this idea of electronic shifting started showing up. Mavic Zap didn’t work. Mavic Mectronic didn’t work slightly better. Then there was Di2, and I knew consumers were screwed. 10-speed Dura-Ace Di2 was available for 8 months and the new deeper cassette splines only fit on the new cassette body - nothing was backwards compatible. In stark contrast, Dura-Ace, Ultegra and 105 were all interchangeable in the previous version. The cost of buying and maintaining a high end bike more than doubled. Post Covid we saw another significant jump as bike manufacturers saw the need for proprietary stems and seatposts. I sell bikes to customers. I sell them bikes I would never buy at prices I couldn’t afford (I’m a grown man with a mortgage and I work at a bike shop). I watch them suffer with problems I never have. My road bike is a 2014 Specialized Tarmac with rim brakes and mechanical shifting. I don’t have cables inside my stem, I don’t have an aero handlebar, it’s a bike from 10 years ago with parts that are much older. At my level I’m not at a disadvantage to riders with new bikes. New stuff comes along and nobody asks if it’s really better, it’s just newer. Then it gets accepted and the option of using the older struggles goes away. This isn’t progress, it’s people believing what they are told over and over.
@@yonglingng5640 There was also the Amira, back when Specialized knew there were differences in fit between the average man and average woman. The problem again was a total lack of understanding. They said “men are shaped like this, women are shaped like this”, so the Amira came in pink… The truth is that there is no quality control over the human body, men and women come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. The Amira was the bargain bike that nobody knew about. Because it was last on their production schedule, the material used reflected the next model years frames. It’s like stepping up your the Pro or S-Works without paying for it.
Wait until they make gear-shifting a subscription model, and software-block it if you don’t pay after the 30-day free trial ends. BMW tried this stunt with heated seats a few years back. The moral: KISS.
Cannonade have done something like that with an inbuilt power meter in a crank which you had to pay to activate, would be only one step further to require a subscription
@@JulietElliottsChannel Yeah, managed to find the old articles - it was £430 to activate in 2020 according to the Bikeradar review of the below bike (name is too long for use in a sentence 😂). The RRP was £9,000 and they had the cheek to not give you all the features 🤣. Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod Disc Dura-Ace Di2 2020
@@steveco1800That’s just wrong on so many levels to pay that much for a bike and then have to pay a subscription to use the power meter. So that’s a yearly fee that has to be paid or a one time payment ?
Excellent topic and one I too think about frequently. There is a movement called ‘Right to Repair’ which compels manufacturers to design fixable products with readily available, reasonably priced parts. This has pressured companies like apple and catapiler to change there ways. Maybe SRAM needs to be persuaded to do the same?
When tech is becoming so expensive you should at leat be able to repair a derailleur. As long as you can't I am staying away from electronic shifting. It is just way to expensive (I got kids!) and also totally ridiculous + bad for the environment. It just promotes consuming.
Aside from cost this is another reason I have avoided going electronic for shifting. I know how to fix mechanical groupsets! If it stops working there are a fairly limited amount of reasons, most of which are simple to fix. The workings of electronic groupsets are a lot less accessible for home mechanics, and it seems more likely to just stop working with no clear reason.
I'm putting together a gravel bike and I am still reluctant to go electronic. It doesn't have issues often, but when it does, they're serious. And the price to performance just isn't there. Honestly, I think that when the novelty of electronic shifting wears off, mechanical will be cool again and most casual cyclists will switch back. Kind of like with mechanical watches.
I agree with your assessment of how things are regarding complexity incompatability and built in obsolescence. The bicycle is a mature thechnology and all that can be done is to add complexity and frgility with "new tech". I ride bicycles between 2.5 and 74 years old. I stich to serviceable components, cups and cones, cables and standard bearings etc around the bike. Every bicycle I have is resilient, robust and dependable as well as being good to ride.
Gravel bikes, should be free of complications, especially when most of the rides are done out in the sticks. I agree, the simpler the better. Parts are expensive and the industry is ripping us off. Old school is best. The industry is going to reach a point whereby muscle power is not required to move a bike. Thanks for the great videos and content.
Ive been back and forth on upgrading to electronic, getting old and thumbs arent what they used to be but this video finally made my mind up. Staying with analog.
Frustrating. I’ve gone back to cable on my gravel bike after DI2 because I can pretty well fix it. Electronic shifting is great until they have a bug or the battery just dies for some obscure reason leaving you stranded in the back of beyond. I’m not a total Luddite though, I still have DI2 on my toad bike. Anyway, please bring some sunshine back. It’s miserable and cold back in Blighty. 😫
Yep same mate - oddly enough posted a reply and just now reading through what other people think. You cannot beat manual for remote riding, and no seat droppers or anything electronic. As i said in main comment if your running a high end chainset anyway its hardly like going back to stone age and lumpy! On long remote rides (as in needing sat comm's etc) and away for weeks, i take spare shifters. Reality is with a few spares and keeping manual there's not much you can't fix at the "roadside". Couldnt agree more when home, road bike Di2 and shifting on the top of the hoods is effortless, for me its just about risk assesment and whether i want to be arse end of nowhere and stuck. To put it into perspective even in this country (UK) even if going up to Scotland (as in north of Ullapool) and going remote i'm not running electronic, its also one less thing to worry about charging let alone failing! Safe riding and travel's, spring is on the way but didn't feel like it today up in the Dale's , was tad fresh certainly be no go from tonight t for a few days i reckon, well road wise for sure!
This is my frustration with so much of our modern world. We talk green this and that - then make everything so it is disposable. I just had to buy a new tablet computer. Not because the old one broke but because the battery (which is built-in) could not be replaced. There was nothing wrong with it other than that. That was my 3rd tablet in 5-6 years. All replaced due to battery life. The same is true of cell phones. I am a fan of EV's but what I HATE about them is they are basically not repairable it they get into any kind of accident. I had a client with a Tesla Md 3. The rear plastic "bumper" got damaged backing out of a driveway. No structural damage. It took like 4 weeks to repair. They had to remove the rear seats, rear hatch, etc. - to replace a basically decorative rear bumper/trim component. The repair cost $17,000. That is INSANE! End of rant. Thanks for the great content. Hope you enjoyed your ride!
I have had this exact experience on my Eagle GX AXS rear derailleur. The light would flash when pressing the pairing button and shifter, however the cage would not move. The clue was the light was illuminating an amber/orange color; not the typical green or red. The "solution" was to remove the battery for 30 minutes and reinstall. This issue has occurred twice over a period of 9 months. The same "fix" resolved the issue both times. It is likely the time to remove the battery is less than 30 minutes, however I have not had another opportunity to test a shorter duration.
As someone from an engineering background I have always found the engineering of bikes strange. As an example, the number of solutions available for what is called a bottom bracket is just mind boggling and it a crank not a bb ffs.
To answer your question about planned obsolescence with in the bicycle industry especially with parts manufacturers have been an issue since the 1990s when index shifting replaced friction shifting followed by Shimano “ rapid fire “ shifting systems making components no longer interchangeable and making integrated systems the norm. Ross Schafer founder of Salsa bikes spoke about his concerns about how the bike industry has changed but, not necessarily for the better in an interview with Bicycle Industrial Complex. Shimano is also a very large company who manufacturers products not necessarily for bikes but, also for fishing ( both recreational and commercial ) and for Japan’s aerospace industries.
Exactly why I don't need an electric shifter. Of course they are building in obsolescence. If they made something that lasted then you wouldn't have a job.
Building a rigid steel singlespeed (Stooge Mk6) and taking it down the same trails I'm used to riding carbon full-squish superbikes on is honestly the best thing to happen to my riding in years. No fuss, nothing to worry about, just skill, fitness and exploration. Especially due to working in the industry (shop wrench), I'd become so jaded with chasing the latest and greatest that I'd forgotten how much fun riding bikes should be.
I chose wired grx just because (despite being really into tech) I can't be bothered to charge and deal with extra hassle. Yes cables stretch etc and shifting not as perfect, but so less likely to have this situ. Watching Lachlan Morton shove an old spoke into his failed SRAM derailleur to try and get an extra gear or two to complete the thousand odd miles on the tour divide was an eye opener for sure. Shame no-one there can sell you a replacement derailleur, probably around the same as a bike hire for a week.... and presumably SRAM would sort you out after as you're pro and on RU-vid!
The evolution of tech in the bike industry over the last decade is amazing but my god does it require a lot of extra maintenance. I haven't made the jump to electronic shifting because when it does go bang (during a ride) there's no roadside fix.
You're spot on. I started riding and racing in the late 1980s. Other than occasional flats, everything on the bike could be fixed or adjusted and didn't wear out for a long time. Now, big bike companies are trying to sell us gear as if we're pros on the world tour. Frames only last a couple of seasons, tires that pop off of the rims and components that need batteries and an app. The pros have mechanics that take care of their bikes. If I'm on a ride and 2 hrs. from my house or car, I can't pull over and wait for the team car when things stop working. High-performance bikes are going the direction of formula one racing. Super high tech, ridiculously expensive, and not practical for daily use. The law of diminishing returns.
100%. I had to really wrestle with a seller of a bespoke bike to keep mechanical gears. He wouldnt have it that they are unreliable or less fixable. I wanted the bike for bikepacking and so didnt want the battery stress and wanted to know I could fix it myself. But it was such a a battle and made my requeat “non-standard” and then end because of strange pricing, more expensive! In the end got my deposit back on the build coz of loads of other problems, but am constantly finding it hard to buy high end mechanical. But I wont go electric until I have no choice and this video vindicates that ……no matter what the experts say.
If you own something and it’s not broken or need attention then stick with what you know. You’re absolutely correct about things shifting in the direction of cars, mobile phones etc. The more complex the bike, the more difficult it is to fix, unfortunately we are conditioned to get the latest and greatest, I’m old skool and I stick with the old theories. Enjoy your holiday 😊🚲✌🏿
There was one time I thought about getting the PRO Vibe Aero Alloy handlebars for my disc brake road bike build, but I dropped the idea after I installed this model on a customer's bike after knowing how finicky the internal routing is (I've handled easier ones before). Since it also goes against my bike spec mantra of keeping things simple enough, I reverted back to the thought of getting PRO Vibe Alloy instead. It's not an aero bike anyway and for some reason, it looks more like the bicycle form I've always known.
I would add a thought along these lines…if you think back to the first home computers, they were big, clunky, mysterious. Now, most of us have multiple computers (benchtop, laptop, smart phone, smart watch) and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation without them. So, maybe this is where we are at with our bikes, and in some years ahead these advanced features we are now seeing will be common place and readily managed.
I stay in a small fishing village about 60 miles from Glasgow. As I was travelling up I decided to drop my bike into Evans cycles for a service. After paying about £200 for the service, they went ahead before telling me the price, I decided to learn how to do it myself. I have since built two bikes myself. I always have mechanical groupsets as I can repair and replace myself. Never really had any issues getting home with a mechanical issue, whereas some of my friends have been stranded with their fancy electrical grout sets.
I really think that obsolescence is becoming a way of life these days. I don't think that the companies are deliberately trying to make things that don't last a long time, but when technology (meaning electronics / computers) start creeping in it just sort of happens. I'm a tech person but I also don't think this is really right, but for now it seems to be the price we pay for all of the innovation.
Totally agree Juliet. My rear SRAM AXS XPLR Rival mech stopped working on my gravel bike and it was literally a month out of warranty. Upon closer inspection, it was one of the pogo pins that connect to the battery that had broken. There is no way to remove the connection plate to replace the pogo so I had to buy a whole new rear mech. I also had to scour the internet as there is no stock available through official sram channels until 'the spring'. Pogo pins cost about £1 for a bag full and I'm quite handy with a soldering iron. So frustrating.
Well, so far, no brand forces anyone to buy posh gear so it remains everyone‘s responsibility to ride whatever one likes. The cycling industry‘s goal is to make profit. Therefore, they‘ll hire „influencers“ to show gear and passively promote it, which is only fair. It remains the customer‘s decision to fall for it or not. I still ride mechanical 105 and rim brakes. I am not the cool kid at the coffee but I manage to keep my bike going at low expense.
And even if it was, just don‘t buy sram if you worry about being able to repair your stuff and maintain your bike yourself I guess. Not saying, sram is bad, just that for now, we still have a choice. But for how long?
People often think the electronic world is better than the mechanical world, but often the mechanical world connects with us more organically. It's kind of sad that we now live in a world where every single thing we use is a black box.
I think you’re right! One of the great joys of mountain biking was the fact you didn’t need a replacement bike (racing) it was just you and your bike! You’d fix it on the trail with an old spoke and a rubber band you had in tour tool kit🤩 We seem to be going backwards! The kit is so complicated you need a degree in engineering to keep it running🤔 I still find it incredible that indexed gearing works👍 Nice video, thanks for sharing👌
Yuh, totally agree. I have never been cutting edge on the tech side due to limited budgets, but the trickle down does concern me as i want to be able to fix my stuff with a zip tie and some squirty lube! Life doesn't need to be any more complicated or expensive than it is!
I have a 12 speed Sram mechanical Mullet setup using a Ratio kit on one bike and a Sram Mullet E-TAP AXS electronic groupset on the other. Love both and the ETAP setup changes so sweetly but if I was riding anything really remote I would feel more comfortable on the mechanical as all I really need to carry is a spare cable and some little bolts and I could fix just about anything. There is no actual performance gains both run a 10-52 cassette and anything from a 36 to 44 chainring which is all I need.
Went back to mechanical shifting; not because of technical problems but because it's much more satisfying 🙂 ... and i prefer the better ergonomics of mechanical hoods ...
Well said! All industries are trying to rip us off at some level. This is why bike industry needs more people like Russ from "Path Less Pedaled" channel.
The more they put in the more there is to wrong. Still ridding my 1985 Raleigh pacer which i upped from straight 5 speed to 12, and it still has the original front wheel.
As a bike shop mechanic working in a smaller, more “old school” type of shop, I can honestly say I hate all the new electronic wiz-bang gadgetry in cycling! As a shop employee, yes I could purchase all the latest & greatest at a discount. I refuse to go to electronic shifting! Technology is great…until it doesn’t work.
When I got the chance to ride a bike with Ultegra Di2 R8070 when my own bike was in full service phase, during those few rides, I got to realise I can actually live without an electronic groupset and I'm speaking this as someone who I'm pretty sure is a lot younger than you.
After this, I only think 'well, seems like old fashioned cables are not such a bad idea anyway' and ride my next ride just that little bit more happy with my old bike. I'm sure this will work out and when you get back can do much more at the local bike shop, together with SRAM or whatever, but this is, effectively, still a very nice nod to mechanical gears.
There’s no need to go down the Di route - you can still get plenty of really good conventional gear that works reliably. Unfortunately the bike industry is marketing led and they’re trying to convince us that to be seen as a “serious” cyclist you need to go carbon, hydraulic, Di etc. etc. and spend thousands doing it (there’s a connection there). A well made aluminium or steel frame with 105 level cable group set and matching components will last a life time and is all 99.9% of us will ever need.
I have a couple of bespoke steel road frames with Campag Ergo I bought over two decades ago, and I'm happy that the sort of things described in the video never seem to crop up.
I went with Ultegra di2 for the first time in 2017. Was wonderful at the start, a significant upgrade to mech Ultegra. I ride audaxes. However I had 3 cases during events where it just went into an error mode and stayed there. Battery charged up. Reset button did nothing. Strangely it would reboot if you happened to have the cable and a powerbank, but who does that on every ride? Apparently the tech is more robust these days but I'm back on mech Ultegra. One less weight on my mind.
If you’re gravel bike is one by I really don’t think that electronic shifting is necessary. There’s not enough advantage with rear shifting to justify the tech. Front shifting is a bit of a different story. Electronics are nice there. Electronic shifting is just one more thing you have to remember to charge. When components fail they’re expensive to replace. For my gravel bike I have GRX mechanical. It’s never given me a seconds problem. Replace the cable once a year and you’re good to go. Planned obsolescence? Most products today are made to fail at some point. We’re a consumer oriented society. The more we consume the happier the makers of the products are?
Not just obsolescence, but proprietary parts! It's nuts. At their nature, bikes are supposed to be simple mechanical objects. You should be able to swap out pieces and parts and, beyond general mechanical compatibilities, you shouldn't have to worry about matching a cassette to a specific derailleur, or needing to use a certain brand/model chain with a certain model cassette/chainring/derailleur.
The biggest reason for cycling digitalization is a better profit for the manufacturers with tiny benefits for consumers. It comes at a cost of being dependent on consuming instead of repairing.
Miss Juliet, You are spot on on everything. It is becoming a pre-obsolete world for gear, what is new today is old tomorrow. I have not gone new tech yet on either of my personnel bikes so I can still fix them. I did build 8 Police Patrol Mountain bikes when they came in to the office. I'm a retired police officer who rode and taught Police Mountain bike riding.Awesome way to get around. Bummer bout your bike. At least you were able to hire a road bike so you get your ride in. Looking forward to your future posts.
Not a chance I'll go electronic shifting, not even electronic dropper. I'll keep the reliability of mechanical thanks. My favourite tech upgrade (a long time ago now) has been disk brakes.
I wont leave mechanical shifting until it no longer exists. I can fix hydraulic brakes. I can't fix electronic wireless shifters and mechs. Plus that leaves me with more cash to spend on food.
I bought a new road bike last year and decided to go with rim brakes and mechanical shifting. Half the price of bike with disc brakes, electronic shifting, lighter and I can do all the servicing myself.
I run Ultegra 6800 on my road bike and 105 on my gravel bike and they both work fine. my only complaint with mechanical groupsets is the shifting performance tends to decline over time and isn't always consistent as well as older hands get sore with heavier shifting brifters. But with that said, I can always fix them and don't have to throw them out as they rarely wear. There is another youtuber that swears by friction shifters, while not as precise they are future proof and will work with any setup...newer isn't always better.
I have owened Sram Rival AXS 1x for almost 3 years. I have taken it on grueling muddy races and bikepacking trips, and never had one issue. I have only replaced pulleys recently...best group ever!
I got back into cycling only recently. So after lots of consideration and trying to have fun on my vintage Peugeot with frame shifters, I pulled the trigger on a beautiful Sonder Camino with a 12by 40x10-51 GRX groupset. Before, I read and learned a lot about what shifting is nowadays. But somehow, being a bit of a tinkerer, I knew from the start I only wanted something I (at least basically) understand. So, after I could easily learn how to readjust the shifting, and also after hearing this from you, I am 100% happy with my decision to go „analog“. The addition of motors and batteries just feels unnecessary to me. But maybe that’s just (though apparently not only) me. 😊
You have defined got a point Juliet, bike technology has definitely moved very quickly over the last few years, and doesn't get the chance to catch it's self up before the next innovation or trend. I run a 1996 Trek and 2003 Marin that just so easy to repair and will probably outlast me.
Well said. Electronic bike bits are great if you get them free/discounted and have a mechanic. I live in Scotland and the climate doesn't mix with electronics so keep it mechanical wherever possible. I've recently purchased a car with modern electronics. For the first time in my life I've been without a car for a number of weeks. It'll be traded in for something more traditional when it's fixed.
Precisely. They may be great if you're heavily sponsored as grand tour riders are. They are a vanishingly small percentage of cyclists. The rest of us suffer for these silly trends.
We have had the right to repair legislation in Europe for a few years now, this makes planned obsolescence like this illegal. It's so frustrating to see it not being implemented. £250 to buy a new RD everytime a piece fails is crazy
I avoid tech on mission critical components because it's nearly always the weakest link. Tech in drive trains is nice to have, but not need to have, so I have cable operated Rohloff gears and disc brakes. Does that make my bike obsolete or old fashioned? Perhaps in the eyes of some, but dilligaf? Nope.
Hi Juliet, just found and subscribed to your Chanel, refreshingly fun to watch. Had to laugh where you said the bit, back in the day cars were easier to fix…or so I’m told….certainly made this 62 year old grandad feel so so much older 😂😂😂.
Hi Juliet - thank you so much for this post, it’s such an important topic as for me the beauty of a bike has always been in its simplicity and ease of maintenance. Rim breaks etc are so easy to maintain safely for the rider - furthermore I don’t think Shimano is even selling higher end mechanical group sets any more!
That sucks. I got a little lucky that I didn't have to replace a whole left hood/shifter when I had a little crash a couple months ago. My local bike shop just ordered the Force blade to replace the one that was sanded down by the road surface. It still wasn't cheap but it could have been more.
I have two old Moulton's from 1964 that I restored. Both hubs dated from the same year work well and have an old school conversion I did to get a whopping 5 gears out of the Sturmey hub. I would never own any non steel bicycle as if you run into a problem it can be difficult or impossible to fix effectively. Yes I may have heavier bikes but in all honesty for the leisure riding I do it doesn't matter. We have a really good cycle cafe (Chiltern Velo) and I often see people with problems with gearing and have seen a few wireless riders calling home to be picked up. Meanwhile my hunk of old steel keeps rolling
You read my mind, I so absolutely 100% agree . I'm oldskool I suppose, no electronics for me on the bike...even though I am a programmer, but let's keep electronic intelligence for other products ;) For all the reasons you said, maintenance wise and also cost-wise. Hope you'll have a marvelous time out there on a different bike anyway. Enjoy!
Interesting. I'm also a dev and was a lead admin and founder for an ISP back in the day. My bikes are completely mechanical though with Campag brifters, and when I did photography, it was traditional B&W with mechanical cameras. I really prefer less technological mediation for some things. Maybe it's my heightened sensitivity to how software can go very very wrong that keeps me skeptical of putting it where it is not needed.
First, electronic shifting is so good, once you have it is hard to imagine going back. At least I can't. My Shimano Di2 has been incredibly reliable, I have it on two bikes (the previous 11 speed version on both). One thing I like about it is that it is totally hardwired. Okay, a little trickier at the initial install, but I relied on professional mechanics for that. Once installed, it should be more robust. Another thing I like is that the brains of the outfit are in the battery, which is in the seatpost and therefore in a protected location. Somehow, I have the feeling that putting the brains inside the rear mech is not the best idea. But in any case, I suspect that a complete failure of either a front or rear mech for either SRAM or Shimano would be pretty rare. Bummer it happened to you. Actually, to avoid built-in obsolescence, I recently bought a spare Di2 battery for my older version group sets just in case, while they are still being sold. Note added. I run a 1x GRX mechanical on my gravel bike. For gravel, electronic seems l8ke overkill unless you race a lot.
It's why I'm hesitant to go electronic (and I'm not one to usually shy away from new tech). I'm running old ultegra (6800) and 105 (5800) on two of my bikes. My gravel bike is running an interesting mix of components (r7000 105 brifters and brakes, FSA 46/30 chainset, and deore rear mech with an 11-42 cassette for the rarely seen double mullet. A jtek shiftmatemake it all play nicely together).
The bike industry only sells what will be bought by us. Too many people buy unnecessary (and expansive) bikes or parts. Everybody must think before buying something new what are the disadvantages of that part. It is clear that a electronic shifter can run out of batterie, can not connect or can have not repairable motor defects. I stay with basic bike parts, maybe slower, but do not forget: the faster your bike, the less time you ride your bike on the same distance!
I'm just getting cycling looking to ride singletrack and bikepack, I am from a wilderness tripping background mainly canoeing, but I certainly don't need anything on my bike I couldn't repair or get working to get me home. Uk rules are supposed to changing so tech becomes end user repairable.
I’d agree. I have a Shimano Di2/Hydraulic level where the reservoir is leaking. The Shimano exploded view tech docs for most products are great. I’ve managed to fix many of their components at low cost just by buying the broken bit using their part number. Not so for the Hydraulic level. It’s a new full lever and throw away the entire old one.
@@yonglingng5640 It was still functional. I just noticed a slow degredation of braking functionality over time. The brake lever would need to be pulled further and further back. After removing the lever hood and inspecting the underneath, there was fluid collecting on the underside. The hose was correctly tightened with no leaks from there.
Spot on. Bikes should - and do - last indefinitely with just basic consumable replacements if you stick to the matured analog tech. From a cost-to-durability ratio, considering what most people actually _need_ to keep the entire population using bicycles as the fully viable mode of transport they are, I think drivetrains peaked at 2-by-9. Slap on some hydro disc (mtb, of course) puppies, learn the basics of maintenance (it’s simple beans), stock up a couple of the spare parts that are usually the first to go and you’re golden. If you just go along with rampant consumerism that chases the latest and greatest bling and convenience, you get… where a lot of road bike and car tech are now, actually. Innovation is important, but choosing _where_ to innovate is more important. And learning to hold on to the rare bits of the past, truly superior tech so that knowledge of them doesn’t vanish into thin air when the next floods hit is just wisdom. And here’s to you, random internet stranger, who happened to stumble upon this and read all of it for some reason: ❤
Yes you are spot on We now live in a throw away society When it starts malfunctioning replace it I like the older way of doing things replace the broken bit and off you go
I recently had to replace a spring in friction shifter on a 10 speed Motobecane from the 1970s. Just a few cents/dollars and it works good as new. Parts are still available.🙂
Totally agree with you regarding the bike industry following every other industry and planned obsolesence. It has now become the norm to grab for as much money as possible in the shortest period. Instead of producing, a quality product at a more reasonable cost, and accepting a longer pay back through a happier more loyal following.
Built a bike for my daughter with Force AXS 12 speed. I am not super mechanical myself but can do some basic stuff. Went on a couple of rides until 10 miles into a long ride her derailleur literally disintegrated. The spring and cover came out. The local bike shop fixed it for me, but this is an expensive part to just come apart.
Spot on! I’m conservative when it comes to bikes - I don’t want anything electronic because why spoil a perfect mechanic invention? Besides the batteries wouldn’t probably handle the winters were I live (-15 celcius currently).
Bike industry has taken a route which will ultimately harm them, forcing everyone down a more complicated and costly set up unneccessarily and ceasing the simple option (mechanical, rim brake, tubes...) forces people out of the sport unless you have deep pockets, I really don't see young people on bikes anymore, how can parents afford many thousands of pounds to get and keep the youth interested. Cycling has replaced the Golf Clubs and now mainly contains middle aged people like me, for me the mechanical and rim brake road bike works just fine, and I ride the mountains regularly, not saying I wouldn't go more tech in the future as I have been forced down that route but the industry has really gone down a rabbit hole!
Agree. I can get just as ugly a workout on my bikes I built a little over two decades ago as I could on something current. I think all that modern tech would buy me is headaches and at a price I don't really want to pay..
Agree with you on the tech side but you could say that about many other parts of a bike and there are also many many “standards” which are not standard at all.
