This twist really threw me for a loop! 😳 How do you feel about the way they are telling this story? Does this character arc make sense for you? Let me know in the comments! Please see the description for resources on child and domestic partner abuse. ❤ If there is something missing from this episode that you'd like me to comment on let me know and I'll try and answer it in the comments or in next week's video. Thank you for being here! 👇
It absolutely does not make any sense, neither psychologically nor plot wise. That's not how you make character development. Sure, there are character developments that go similar ways, one that comes to my mind is Powder/Jinx. We get innocent Powder being a victim of violence, poverty, and her surrogate family calling her a jinx and kind of paving the way to that mindset which she later holds onto. But her situation and downfall is much more justified within the story and also with her character. It does not feel out of ordinary or just wrong. You can see how it would happen to someone like her given the right circumstances. But I can't feel the same with Jos. She was abused, okay. She is going to become like her abuser okay. That's the goal of her character then, sure. So they wanted to spice it up by showing her as innocent while also making sure that we see she is capable of acting in daily life as well and of great manipulation of her own emotions. However, it doesn't feel like it. What I'm seeing here is two different stories and the showmakers got confused. They could pull of an amazing new Gone Girl with her if they decided to do the extremely capable actor and manipulator who was been this dark all this long and was acting to be a victim. Then that would be mind blowing given how well she can change her emotions or how it looks within seconds. It would give the same vibe the first half of Gone Girl gives. The woman we thought was extremely innocent was actually just as bad as her abuser, and that would give the audience a much harder shock. But this here just feels wrong because deep down we all braced ourselves for Jocelyn to become even more dependent on Tedros as if he is a drug that fills the void of the abusive mom, we expected her downfall to be even more of a victim than before. But now it is all non-justified just because she became an abuser herself and that is not clear why because we don't know whether she knew the contact or not. It feels unrelated. As if someone changed the story midway.
I just think the way they first made Jocelyn have control over her life was to let someone else have the control over her life and Tedros just replaced that role, the familiarity, the controller and that's why she latched onto him. But now it also looks like she is trying to take control and when she does it is abusive but it does not make sense with her character so far. If she is someone like that, who wants to be in control at the expanse of hurting and even torturing others, then why she was so okay with latching knto Tedros. It contradicts with everything they've built. There have been no signs of Jocelyn secretly being like her abuser and just acting innocent, vulnerable and dependent. She just was that way and changed with a sudden 180 overnight. Maybe in time, okay that might happen. But that kind of a downfall from victim to abuser is a slow burn. You actively watch it happen. Not like this. That's why it feels confusing to analyse.
THE WEEKND & SAM LEVINSON wrote the script and Tedros is VERY comfortable SEXUALIZING/MANIPULATING cuz Abel plays himself but disguised in his BelAir House which he proudly showed looking at his "SLAVES" as the Cult Leader. His lyrics are no different as he sings in soft tones that have folks screaming "If you Not XO got to go" as his Tours are Sold out!
this obsession of his is sickening! people have been talking these days about his tendency to unnecessarily get his teen characters naked too often. but like??? how did he manage to just throw one in this show as well?!! he legit needs to lose his job, this is unhinged. the entire show is made up of adult characters, and the one child has to have gotten naked and in the most random way possible too. seriously...
Exactly!!! Not to mention he wasn’t able to include her in a sex scene directly because everyone else in the show is an adult and that would’ve been R*pe so he had her indirectly participate by watching joc and tedros have sex and get off to it!!!! He’s such a pervert and needs to be investigated for his obsession with sexualizing minors. He literally can’t help himself
If this were any other show, the premise of Jocelyn secretly being the puppet master this whole time, like Xander seems to imply, would be such a brilliant plot! But I just can’t get over the fact that this was promoted as a story about a woman being taken advantage of in the music industry. And what message does it send if it turns out that that woman has actually been the one manipulating everything from the start? Especially with Sam Levinson and Abel “too much female perspective” Tesfaye as the writers?
You read my mind! This “twist” makes sense if we build to it, allude to it in dialogue, and allow us to see a progression. Not to mention that the underlying idea of the show WAS supposed to be about the music industry. And we’re 4/5 episodes in and barely see the darkness of the industry just the darkness of the cult. So many missteps for so much potential
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP THE CHLOE THING!!! It’s so weird that they had this woman (I know she’s 26) play a teenager and get fully naked. AGAIN!!! This was the issue with Euphoria it’s so weird?? Like how can you make a show about the over sexualization of the music industry and you yourself are on purpose making characters who are minors nude??
"they actually showed her naked body to all of us... and now they're implying that she is under the age of 18. and that's really uncomfortable" THANK YOU!! immediately as I saw this scene where they basically TELL US that she is A CHILD. I immediately thought about the nude scene... like, why? genuinely why.. this didn't need to be there. her getting her clothes off to get in somebody else's pool didn't make sense anyway, and with how this cult works we could have made connections ourselves that she is very likely to be in sexual or semi sexual situations with them. there was never a need for them to make her act like a literal toddler (watch how she speaks RIGHT before getting naked in that scene) and then now basically give us the context of her being a child. I heard that Sam loves to sexualize children and teens in his work, based on Eupohria and how often he asked for unnecessary nudity from actresses who depicted teens... seems like its 100% true. this show is literally 99% adult characters. the men almost always stay fully clothed. and he somehow found a reason to completely undress the one child character in a scene, UNNECESSARILY. someone take his job from him pls
i understand why they included that scene but they easily could’ve alluded to her being naked and not actually shown her fully naked. and i think her talking childishly was foreshadowing that she is literally a child
I think the point of showing her do that was to show she's been exploited by Tedros and whoever else was part of her life before that to not have healthy boundaries when it comes to nudity and her body - I think also the scene where she was watching Jocelyn and Tedros in the bedroom seemed to imply that he previously had treated her like he's now treating Jocelyn, which would mean Tedros is the exact kind of creep that has no issues sexually exploiting a minor in a very vulnerable position. Perhaps we didn't need to see the character nude, but at least she wasn't depicting in a sexualised manner nor under the male gaze, and thankfully the actor is much older. Perhaps it was done as a sly "Caught you in the act" to anyone who did see her nude and found sexual gratification in it, later revealing she's supposed to be only 17 - also drawing parallels to a porn industry that has had "barely legal" as a staple and popular genre. I personally don't have issues with it because I didn't find any pleasure or excitement in her nudity, nor did I feel it was shot in such a way to say "You should be feeling arousal at this", and afaik the actress had no issues with it either.
When they said she was a child and I realized we'd seen her naked that induced a dissociative episode in me. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, seeing underage people naked or undressing makes me retreat into myself instinctively like I would when I was being abused. It really hit me hard and messed me up for most of the day. They could have had Tedros have a victim who's underage without showing us her naked body. I'm all for showing that kids can be preyed on by adults in the entertainment industry - that happens a lot - but this isn't doing it respectfully at all.
She is/was a heroin addict. Considering the fact she is a minor and was more than likely picked up by Tedros when she was way younger too will make sense she acts the way she does.
The only way I can digest the content of this mess of a show at ALL is through your insightful, analytical lens, learning about real conditions depicted in this utterly unhinged series. If you weren't reacting to and explaining what the hell is going on, I would 100% steer clear of this entirely. That's how much I appreciate your content.
Its so funny you call this a mess of a show but all she is doing is explaining the content that is on the screen. The problem is you people can't see past the nipples and sexual content to see that this show clearly has layers and substance.
As a gay man I’ve noticed homophobia is used by straight males when they’re insecure about something within themselves and I think he’s insecure way more than he lets on that he is
My thoughts were: finally!!! Normal people with normal dialogue! I just hope that in last episode they will call police and all this terrible people go to jail. It is the only way to improve the show
The underage character was in the closet during the scene with tedros and joss and now that we know her age it makes that scene even more disgusting than it was. Why would the writers show her touching herself/naked then reveal shes 17??? Horrible.
A lot of victims of childhood sexual abuse can develop hypersexuality so it actually makes Chloe doing that even worse than you'd think at a glance, because if you think about it, her touching herself implies he's abused her enough times for her to have developed hypersexuality. How old was she when he started hurting her? As a survivor of CSA my heart just breaks for her. This isn't sexy like the show thinks it is, it's just tragic. She must have been assaulted so many times, and she's literally a CHILD.
@@morganqorishchi8181 Maybe it wasn't Tedros who abused her sexually as a child. Didn't she say she was on drugs when he found her? Maybe she had issues with sex and drug even before him.
No need for Stockholm Syndrome between Jocelyn and her mother, abused children love and care for their abusive parents not because they are captors but because they love them
That's what shocked me the most when I became a parent and was reading about respectful parenting. They indeed often explain how our children will love us inconditionally. The real kind of unconditional love 😢
Up until I realized my mom would always want me to be unhappy and that it gave her pleasure to see me suffer I still wanted to make her happy every day... No matter what she did I just wanted her to give me care and love and show me I was a human being worth looking after. Unfortunately the thing that would make her happiest is me dying. So I've cut her off
Yup. A child needs love to survive. That doesn’t go away when the child becomes an adult. We need and crave it from our parents even if they treat us badly and in spite of treating us badly.
if they wanted to make jocelyn the bad guy they should have alluded to that more throughout the show. up until now we’ve only seen her be kind to her friends and employees
@@lugmediaclub1645 what things exactly? i know she hasn’t been the nicest but i don’t remember seeing anything that would imply she’s an evil mastermind
@@kphoria1009 I never said she was an evil mastermind. That's the issue, you're greatly exaggerating what the show is saying. They're showing that she's not this quiet, innocent victim and that she has more control over Tedros than the other way around. Also, that she doesn't really value Leia that much. The scene with Dyanne and Tedros where she's confused as to why Tedros is making music with Jocelyn, the masturbation scene showing what type of sex she's into, the scenes of her leaving Tedros to finish himself off, the way in which she can change emotions at the drop of a hat, etc.
@@lugmediaclub1645 the sex scenes are just sex scenes, her not wanting tedros to nut in her and the kinky masturbation are not a testament to her character. either way they should have framed her the way they wanted her to be seen much earlier in the show
Chole!!! I just got so angry when she said she is 17. I got chills all over my body because holy shit. Also it really hit me hard when you said if it feels wrong it’s wrong but sometimes what’s right can feel wrong because it feels so unfamiliar. I soooo understand this
I honestly don't know what to say about this show no more. First was the sexualization of mental illnesses(gross) then it was the Epstein's island joke(not funny, didn't laugh) then it was turning parental abuse into... pleasure(good lord), and now it's using the f-slur. Twice. Can we sue HBO for this? Is it possible? They can't keep getting away from this😭😭😭
You people should move to North Korea. or something, here in America we have something called the first amendment. People are so weak and sensitive theses days smh
Sue HBO for depicting fiction? LMAO! What were your opinions when Nate Jacobs (Euphoria) said the f-slur? Or when Logan Roy (Succession) said it? Stop this fake outrage, clown!
As a CSA survivor, everything about Chloe makes me feel so tired. Her touching herself is something a lot of CSA victims do because we develop hypersexuality. It doesn't make the character sexier, it makes everything WORSE, because it implies Tedros has assaulted her enough times for her to develop that. How many times has this grown man hurt this child? And why does everyone insist on thinking of victims as sexy? It's not sexy when she does something sexual, show, it's a reminder that she's a victim of ongoing long-term abuse. I was abused from when I was 4 to 10. I touched myself underage. Is that "mental illness is sexy", Sam Levinson/the Weeknd? Is that hot? I hate both of these people now.
As someone who’s a part of the music industry/entertainment industry I promise you their is nothing about this show that is realistic, the fact The Weeknd is part of the creation just absolutely befuddles me
@@s.tiaira9081 it’s just not possible a lot of scenarios, for example the whole Mike dean situation, if Mike dean is supposed to be the Mike dean he is real life, theirs no way he’s going come to a artist house who he’s not personally cool with off the strength of a guy he knows who’s not in the music industry, before that even happens the label, management, budget negotiations for the producers,scheduling,nda to the people at the sessions all have to be cleared, (when working with Grammy super producers) a session like that is more for like an upcoming no name producer
@@s.tiaira9081 also if the Jocelyn supposed to be this big star who’s in album/single mode and she’s a singer that doesn’t really write her own music, than the label would be so involved it wouldn’t be possible to have some cult around it’s just not realistic because you are working off their budget and with labels their will always be someone around as supervision to see where their budget is being spent
@@s.tiaira9081 the story would been more realistic if she was an up and coming artist trying to reach fame, when your established and an main priority to an label, their ain’t no way and I mean no way in hell any thing like the things In this show would happen, these major labels have to much influence and power
please never stop making therapist explanations to the idol this show opened my eyes to manipulation of people i have dealt with a fair share of manipulative people and dont want to be manipulated again your explanations of the behavior help me set boundaries and be educated on how i should never let someone treat me despite what i feel is normal or okay
I think this show is not thoughtful or sensitive enough to pull off a well-done “Jocelyn’s a mastermind and abuser” plot. I think they’re relying on their shallow characterization to gloss over the character development and exploration that should have happened. They’re presenting us with abuser Jocelyn as a fait accompli with the expectation that we’ll go back and reinterpret what we’ve been shown to support this conclusion. It’s a cheap, easy way to handle this story, and it’s gross. I also don’t like it because it implies that Jocelyn chose and consented to everything Tedros has put her through. He didn’t prey on her because she’s weak and vulnerable, you see? She was just like him all along.
I disagree with the last part. Tedros did prey on her, she just decided to let it happen for the sake of her career Idk about you, but I find it a realy intriguing critique on the music industry: how music stars like Jocelyn have been conditioned into doing whatever it takes, even putting themselves and others in harmful situations, for their careers, because their career is more important than themselves. Tedros is still a piece of shit, and we havent been given any rationale for his characters action besides being a control freak whos only talent is manipulation. The reasoning for Jocelyns actions are laid out pretty well: she knew what she wanted and how to get it, and what she wanted was someone to take the place of her abusive mother because in her mind it helps her make better art (shown by her messing up her dance routine then needing her mother), and her art is more important to her than her own self
I’m not arguing it’s not a realistic depiction of the music industry. I’m very uncomfortable, however, with the wider implications of Jocelyn choosing Tedros. I’m concerned that the show is telling its viewers that sometimes women just need to be sexually and physically dominated because they’re too weak to make their own decisions, and anyway, they like it and it makes them a better artist.
@@mst3kharris thats one way to interpret it. I still think the show condemns alot of the toxic aspects of the relationships shown. Like its clearly shown that the dynamic between Tedros and Jocelyn is not healthy
this whole show is based on the idea that 'mental illness is sexy.' as someone who works in psychiatry the notion of this makes me feel ill. there is nothing, absolutely nothing 'sexy' about abuse, substance use and self harm. Nothing. 'i choose you to fill the void' is pretentious rubbish. Jocelyn makes the point she is 'not relateable.' Its not that. She and everyone around her is not likable. Who would want to spend an afternoon with these people? they aren't much fun. they are bunch of miserable narcissistic abusers who hate each other. so much fun.
@@zymir5494they literally said that 'mental illness is sexy' and that abuse is fine because you get inspiration from it. If you dont see it, then there is something wrong with you
@@smokescreen9253 I believe their addressing how in fact to some people in the public mental illnesses is sexy …. For example Chris brown has been dealing with depression for years even resulting in him abusing a lot of his gfs but guess what … women still thinks he’s “hot” or the whole “he’s a broken man so I’ll fix him” type , throughout the years it has literally been countless of artist whom said they had or are going threw some type of mental crisis Tommy lee, Kurt Cobain, Justin Bieber, Mike Tyson, Kid Cudi to name a few and they have all been liked as “hot” to the majority. So yea it’s messed up to say but it’s the reality we live in 🤷🏽♂️
@@zymir5494depression alone doesn't make anybody violent. But yeah, I think that's part of the problem: Many people only or mainly know certain mental health issues from celebrities having them and then associate those issues with attractiveness, fame and "Rock 'n Roll". But I do think this is getting less of an issue as young people have a lot more mental health awareness than their parents' generation and so that is depicted in a realistic way (the younger staff member disagreeing with the older one who said "mental illness is sexy"). But then there is rattail guy, who is neither convincingly charismatic nor extraordinary hot and still gets what he wants (being controlling, harassing and physically abusing people with no negative consequences for him so far - which does make it look like a toxic man's fantasy). Well, I guess it will somehow excalate in the last episode and leave the viewers with some mixed and icky feelings.
i wish we had flash backs to when her mum was alive , so we could understand more about why she is like this , why her mums death killed joss so much inside , and caused her to have a really bad breakdown. like all this would deffo add to the plot , bettering it
What I love about your analysts of the characters, is that you make the characters seem way more well written than they actually are which just shows how awful the writing is.
I agree. I feel like she managed to bring a lot more depth and value to the scenes, and put it in a better context that the show itself wasn't able to get at.
It’s more like the way you analyzed the show while watching it, made it seem shallow and superficial to you. I personally don’t have a psychology degree or anything like that yet I still caught every main points she made while I watched the show alone. I think it’s about how much effort you want to put to understand the show.
@@velvetday3874it’s exactly this lmao. These people are so bad at analyzing media to the point where Abel had to come out and explain (for like the 5th time) that his character is a creep/loser and you’re not supposed to root for him. Like did these idiots miss the part where he sniffed Jocelyn’s couch pillow or when he was rehearsing what to say in front of her bathroom mirror?🤣🤣🤣The show isn’t even THAT hard to understand or interpret.
@@velvetday3874 yeah I learnt this during my English major. You dont read a book, you read _yourself_ One can only give something as much depth as they possess, that's why as kids we tend to go for simpler plot driven stuff and as we get older (though not always) we crave more complex stories
Don't know if I could stand watching the show but I'm enjoying these recaps. I think as repulsive as the dialogue can be this show has been effective in being the catalyst for important conversations surrounding abuse, victimization, death, cult mentality etc...
Destiny is the only good thing about this show. They should’ve just had the series be about her and Chaim doing crisis management for a different artist per week.
I don’t think this is a case of “the victim turned into the abuser”. I think they both were already abusers from the very first episode. At best, Joselyn is a manipulator. The very first episode we see, they show her switching her emotional expression at the drop of a dime; foreshadowing her ability to “play a role”. I don’t think the show is trying to make viewers choose sides between Joselyn & Tedros. They’re both toxic and manipulative in their own ways. Edit: you made this point in the video! I should have waited until after to comment. I agree that both things can be true and often ARE true- Joselyn has experienced horrific abuse and manipulation and simultaneously also perpetuates it onto others.
I see where you’re coming from. And then I think about Jocelyn at 3 years old who didn’t have a choice over her development and didn’t for many years. Does she now? Yes, absolutely. Is she aware she can / should change? Likely not :/
i don’t think jocelyn is as manipulative as tedros though, her progression in the show is different than his. he’s a cult leader, she’s a cult follower and has a bunch of yes men around her
12 mins in the video and just wanted to point something out regarding the Dyanne scene. If Abel and SL wanted to portray the K-pop industry, they did it very smoothly here. K-pop entertainment companies scout idols on the streets. Also, in the K-pop world work ethics is everything. You don't have to be a super talented singer or dancer. If you have the work ethics, the motivation and the dedication to practice enough, you're in. So yeah, what they did here was actually clever. IF they wanted to portray part of the K-pop industry ofc. Also, in K-pop there are instances when a song is first given to one group, they record the song, they shoot the MV and then the song goes to another group (La vie en rose being the most recent example). So what happened with Dyanne's and Jocelyn's characters here is a true story. And for the record, I'm not in any way defending the show. The show is a train reck. But what they showed here is indeed a true-life experience.
Hey, if you like it you like, if you don’t you don’t, you don’t have to explain yourself for your opinion or follow the the hive mind of melodramatic outrage
The Chloe scene is truly disturbing. The scene of her being naked had NO relevance or significance to the plot so what was the purpose of including it???sam just loves sexualizing children and it truly needs to be investigated. Not to mention he wasn’t able to include her in a sex scene directly because everyone else in the show is an adult and that would’ve been R*pe so he had her indirectly participate by watching joc and tedros have sex and get off to it!!!!
@@the.truth.doctor YES WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I GOT WHEN THE GUY WITH THE BLONDE HAIR CLEANED UP THE GUY AFTER BEING SHOCKED. SOMETIMES YOU STILL GET PADDLED AFTER YOU CROSS OVER AND THEN HAVE TO BE THE PADDLER. I THINK THIS DYNAMIC SHOULD BE EXPLORED
This is the only way I’ve watched the show. I refuse to support it and would rather support this channel with such insightful commentary. I also learned a lot about my past relationships watching these videos and have to thank you for making these. ❤
I don’t dislike this show, I dislike how superficial it was. They didn’t take the time to really dig into the cracks, the problems feel glazed over. It feels rushed, almost like they were making a series of music video interlude skits. Had they taken the time to properly develop the characters and the behaviors, though still uncomfortable and shocking, it would have been a bit more digestible.
This is soo poorly written. How was this approved or was it too late and they couldn’t stop it? It’s a disgusting mess overly sexual and just BORING but I do appreciate that you take the time to not only watch but break down this show
Literally, it has the potential but they fill it with p*rnography, s*x scenes, and literal child p*rnography is there is a character who is underaged who had been groomed by Tedros AND had a scene where she was literally naked. It is utterly disgusting and disturbing.
I’ve been on my toes every Thursday for your reviews on the episodes. Your commentary is so constructive and thoughtful. Very well done and produced. Please continue, you’re doing amazing!
I think the reveal of Jocelyn being an abuser and someone who wants control and power is still a victim of her past. The perfect victim doesn’t exist. It doesn’t make what Jocelyn is doing ok, but it explains why she may think and act the way she does. She didn’t receive love and care from her mom and the industry, so she doesn’t know how to give that to others. Not everyone who was abused is gonna become the abuser but it does happen. I still feel for Jocelyn and I want to see her grow and become a better person.
I think the show is saying that yes, there will be people like Tedros who are evil and manipulative, but there are also people like Jocelyn who can be very caring and sweet but also manipulative. Almost everyone in the show has ulterior motives because it’s portraying Hollywood and the entertainment industry. The characters show different sides of them to different people because they are navigating the toxicity in the industry (which draws in a lot of narcissists and shady people and puts them in positions of power)
I think the pictures Xander took are so Jocelyn’s ex gets in trouble. He said he just landed a role in a superhero movie, so I can see it being a scandal that potentially ruins his career. Maybe the girl is also underaged, seems to be Tedros’ thing😖
I think many of the decisions made by this show are not actually clever writing and it's just involuntary. I believe that Jocelyn suddenly becoming a horrible person is just a result of rushed/poor writing, not really something intentional.
I believe it’s intentional. Very on brand with the The Weeknd’s song writing (False Alarm, The Hills, Wicked Games) the women in those stories were wolves in sheep clothing.
Okay, so technically speaking, when Tedros said family's root word is Famulus, which means servant, he's not wrong. However, that translation is very surface level. Either the show writers knew that and used it to make a comment about his character, or just did a quick google search. Contextually, Famulus could refer to a servant, group of servants, or members of a household in general. The idea that Famulus meant to serve ones family doesn't really fit.
I haven’t seen the episodes b/c of how bad the reviews are, but watching your videos make it seem really good cause you’re touching on the main parts/points.
That’s bc she’s using the show as a jumping off pint to talk about related tidbits of actual psychology - the show itself is hot, exploitative garbage 🙏
i definitely wouldn’t say jocelyn is the villain of the story or that the her actions don’t make sense because she clearly resents xander deep down for not stopping her abuse from her mom and then directly from tedros (he watched her get hit and now she’s watching him get shocked). she wants him to feel that pain. it’s not right but it’s also not unbelievable
Jocelyn’s character is honestly very shallow and unlikable and one-dimensional. Every scene without the main characters is the best scene, like the scene with Destiny and Chloe. But also the side characters are mostly NPCs as well.
For real, she has no real personality, she is not fleshed out, she is very boring and underwhelming. Her only personalities are crying and being naked, that’s it. And the fact that the twist would be her being the puppet master makes me angry because the writers would think that was « female empowerment » is like you thought she was controlled and manipulated all the time but actually she is the controlling and manipulative one, GIRL POWER ! Like wtf ? What was the message ? Sam and Abel are trying so hard to be edgy, deep and woke at the same time without being smart or consistent in their writing and as a result they ended up as fucking clowns 🤡
@whostrippenXD a character in a video game that moves in its own , you don’t control it In this context of the comment, she means the side characters are boring
If they actually took time to concentrate on the plot as it hinds the darkness of Jocelyns character and how she manipulates the people who think are manipulating her instead of the full on adult rated scenes every few minutes, this could have actually had a good plot and worth all the hype! Idk how they didn't even touch any of this things they are hinding but they already reached the finale!?
It sucks because i feel like this could have been such a great psychological thriller where you are rooting for jocelyn to get out of this cult if they just cut out most of the sex and didnt try to make her a twist villain. Some of the acting is just so good and the portrayal of the abuse feels so realistic, and theres a lot of scenes that genuinely grab your attention. Its like glimmers of gold in a pile of trash, its so sad
Mental Illness, in manipulative cases especially, can take one down the haunted road of past grief, trauma, and confusion all together. Overtime, a person loses themselves completely.
I dont watch the show because after watching half of ep one I realized I was wasting my precious time. So now I only watch your recaps because I am interested in Social phenomenas, media and psychology. Thanks!
Compare to last week, I'm actually less convinced now that Joss has been manipulating everything since the beginning. But I still thing that she is less manipulated by Tedros than we were shown at first. I think she is using him for what he is because she gets the inspiration she wants from him. The BTS actually says that very clearly. But I think she honestly didn't know about the relationship btw Tedros and Dyanne. I also believe Xander may actually have been lying as a "revenge" against Joss because he believes Joss told Tedros all his secrets. And I think she can't talk to Rob because she is the more herself with him and possibly loves him, so vulnerable. But she can with *the whole world* because then she is not *her*, but a performer. Anyway, if she now manipulates things to go the way she wants them to go, I don't think it means that the message is that victims are manipulators. To me, it's just the only way she knows about how to defend herself in this manipulative world. Be a wolf amonst wolves. In the end, I don't think that is a serie that has any likeable characters (Maybe Destiny 🤔but she is not main character...). Thank you for this new video. Very interesting as always 😊
Leia is also really likeable, shes like one of the few rational minds too and despite being insecure about her position, she still tries to stand up to Tedros
4:51 What you said here about filling the void reminded me of a bit from this incredible poem The Addict, A Magician by Michael Lee. In it he says "You wanted to know how to remove the emptiness from yourself. We never understood it cannot be removed. It is not a pulsing seed in the gut, or a peach pit run into the mud. We weren't drug addicts, we said we were scientists. We experimented each day. Sent the smoke down into the deep mine of the chest as though it were a rope with a hook at the end of it to pull the emptiness back out. We partitioned ourselves away to the dark piece by piece, we did not remove the emptiness but further became it." I was so demoralized the day I first consciously realized its impossible to remove emptiness, you have to fill it. It was a powerful epiphany though. Check out the full poem! You can watch it on the Button Poetry RU-vid channel.
I love your videos. Thank you for making this, cause when i started watching this show i really wanted someone to explain the psychological work that is going on. Sadly, there's a possibility that Jocelyn is gonna be real "villain" of the story: in an interview, Lily Rose Deep said that Joss is a very strategic and calculative person. And in the end of this episode, that guy says to her that she always finds a way to get what she wants. So, the theory is that she knows what Tedros is doing from the beginning, and she's engaging in this behavior because it is a way for her to get inspiration and get the music she wants. I would hate that, and I already discussed this in another comment section haah
I dont think it makes Jocelyn the true villain though, I dont think the show is trying to make us choose a villain between joss and tedros. I think theyre just showing how the industry has fucked up Jocelyn to the point where she engages in fucked up behavior like actively engaging in abuse, for the sake of her art, because the industry has conditioned her to think the only thing thats important is her art. I think if there was a true villain in this story, its the industry, because it made Jocelyn who she is
@fourhairstrands8265 I agree to you to an extent, but disagree with some others. What made who she is, in her words, was her mother, not the industry. You can say the industry took advantage of what her mother did, and in that case, I agree. Next, the moment she takes pleasure in other people's pain, she's a villain in my book. She was low-key enjoying the shock she was giving to Xander cause she was in control. She could say to Tedros to stop, and she didn't. And next point, no shes not just a person fucked ip by the industry that is engaging in risky behavior for her art. If the theory that she's in control is real, she's is not pijust finding out these behaviours. She's not only actively seeking them but also making them happen. That's why I prefer that she snapped out of it and them get the control of her life back, instead of her always being in control.
@@manugsantos9 i do agree that her mother is the reason, but why did her mother condition her into prioritizing her work? Because of the industry. Her mother was directly responsible but the reasoning was the industry, because of the way the industry works I do agree shes a villain, just not the main one, because I dont think the story has one. Pretty much every character has ulterior motives fueling their actions, and are working for themselves (outside of choice characters like leia or destiny)
@@manugsantos9 mhm, side note: i do appreciate your perspective. Even as someone who has found the show intriguing and interesting, the debate and conversation surrounding it has been far more interesting, which I love engaging in. Always cool to hear different povs for something as divisive as the Idol
Going off what I've seen, I will never get over the producers saying that the original script was too focused on the female perspective. Then what the fuck was the point of keeping a female main character? Just make the series center on a dude or focus more on Tedros as a person and his psychology. It's also just like, they do realize the show isn't actually provocative or particularly stands out, right? American Beauty, Euphoria, 1960's Romeo and Juliet, Transformers, unfortunately, in our culture, it's not "provocative" and "rage-inducing" for teenagers to be sexualized on-screen. It's not particularly new or scandelous for trauma victims and women seeking crappy men or "enjoying" being assaulted, and lingering on sex scenes. Media that come to mind are teeth, Grease (Danny tried to assault Sandy in his car and she still went for him), 50 Shades, and Twilight. If they want to make something truly uncomfortable and memorable, why don't they try focusing on that female perspective? Focus on her disconnect and her mind state when she's being touched by Tedros. Show more of her love for her career and the plotline between her and that girl from Blackpink, and how scared she is. The way things are going now, the only thing this will be remembered for is being lowpoints Lily Depp and the Weeknd's careers. Sure, it's the most watched show on HBO Max or something, but how much of that is due to the show being good or controversial, as opposed to it having the Weeknd and there not being much else to watch because of Hollywood's greed.
Kpop fans are also known to support & hype up everything their idols participate in - at least at first. I don't know how divided the Blackpink fandom actually is about this one.
As a psychology major who wants to be a therapist for children, I really like how to breakdown the psychology of the show. I find it more inciteful than what every other reactor is doing (which is basically the 'this show is trash' bandwagon without any actually explanation as to why aside from the reguritated articles and critics reviews). I started to feel like the psychological plot was going over a lot of people's heads. I think a lot of people came into this show hating it, but also perceiving it in a way that it was never meant to be perceieved. I've noticed a lot of reactors are confused about why Jocelyn would say this or that and why Tedros is so creepy, etc. I feel like focusing on the tree trunks has prevented people from seeing the forest. A lot of reactors only see the show on a surface level, but you see the forest and you point out that the iceberg is much larger underneath the water. It's really refreshing to watch someone, a therapist at that, point out the same things that I have been seeing as well. I actually think the show is good (aside from what was pointed out about Chloe). It's mediocre. It's not amazeballs, but it's not completel garbage either. Maybe it's because I love psychological movies/shows. I find, however, that when I try to explain the psychological aspects that explain why the characters say things or why they act a certain way, it just gets overlooked. At least you have a platform where people can listen and learn from your content and understand the show a bit better. Thank you for the videos. If possible, can you react to the show Cruel Summer, Season 1. It's really important to me, as the topic has to do with not feeling enough and grooming. I think a lot of people could benefit from a few videos explaining the topic, especially coming from you.
Been waiting for this!! 🥳 This is the series that brought me to your channel, I super respect your knowledge and experiences and look forward to hearing about shows through your lens
I work in the mental health field and deal with mental health and substance abuse patients and it’s my true passion. Thank you for breaking down this episode and show and hopefully you do the last one. So much manipulation and layers to what they’re trying to say in the show minus the tough things to watch. It’s refreshing seeing this and it falls in line with The Weeknd’s music that is about a torn individual that definitely needs healing and just cannot see past their trauma and internal struggles. Great breakdown 👍🏼
I just want to say, about the plot twist, that it makes sense 100%. Not everyone who endures complex, long-term trauma (especially from caregivers) is only a victim. Often they too, become perpetrators of abuse whether it be emotional, spiritual or physical. When you grow up in such a way that, like you said, makes you believe chaos is safe... then its not hard to believe that a victim may generate chaos within their relationships in order to regain that sense of safety and familiarity. Her internal world is not black and white in the same way humans are not black and white. Humans are complex. I see Jocelyn as both a victim and a person capable of harming others. We are all a mixture of the two, to varying degrees. Some of us learn to greive and let go, but it is often a long and spiral-like path of letting go and recreating the abusive dynamics of our past. Rarely is it ever a linear and constant path of healing. Healing is messy.
I found your channel a two weeks ago and I’m so grateful I did! Thank you for all the psycho-education you provide and explanations of behavior of characters based off psychological theories. I’m in my third year of training as a psychotherapist in Australia, and your videos are widening and validating my knowledge greatly 🙏🏻💛
I like how you do your reaction videos because you're not just riding the hate train. I agree that the show isn't the best, but we're not using our media literacy if we just reduce our opinions to "The Idol bad!".
Your take about how Jocelyn can be the abused and the abuser at the same time is very interesting, but I don't think Sam Levinson is that smart. I'm sure he just framed her as some kind of manipulative villain in this week's episode is like saying, "well of course she deserved it, look at how she actually treats people around her!" Which is disgusting, but not surprising coming from him.
out of everyone on the show, that Nikki woman is the one who turns my stomach the most. She's the most disgusting one. Most people can see that something is wrong with Tedros. But they don't see that there's something wrong with Nikki. On the contrary, they look up to her and hold her up as an authority figure. That makes her the most dangerous one
Hi Dr. Tracy! You look uneffortlessly beautiful, shining and simply stunning in a very simplistic manner lately. You give off relaxed vibes as if you feel much free, relieved and lighter yourself and that it is showing. I hope that is really the case and not the illusion of a vibe I happened to get from u. Just wanted to say. Have a nice day!
I’ll be honest, this show made me hate Mike Dean -- and truthfully, I had never heard of him until this show. Edit: Jocelyn asking Tedros why would Leia like him is a very interesting question coming from her.
i can not see joselyn completly as a victim as the other people in the show, she s the kind of narcicist that uses psycos like tedros to be their enablers and scapegoat
I thought they were trying to make Jocelyn seem like the mastermind at first but after remember that rolling stone article saying the people that worked in this producion said it feel like "a messed up love story", I'm scared they choose the "these two people are messed up so they deserve each other" route.
I grew up in a unsafe environment I'm 18 still trying to get my way out of that... And it makes sense because I feel out of place and uncomfortable when I'm in a safe environment or happy
Has anyone considered the possibility that since Abel is sufficiently self-aware to write Starboy, that either he regrets his narcissistic behavior and/or is resigned to not changing? Thus, he would be able to present the most significant perspective on how narcissists treat others. Especially vulnerable women who so desperately want to succeed.
highly recommend watching the black mirror episode beyond the sea! i feel like there is so much to unpack in terms of the characters mental state throughout the episode and id love to see a professionals take on the extremes some of these characters chose to take.
As an activist and someone who has met people who lived through the entertainment industry i feel so attached to the characters but the way they are portrayed at times literally makes me want to throw a shoe at the TV 😅 What an overwhelming show
i don’t really support anything about this show but honestly them making the girl that was running around naked reveal she’s underage makes the ridiculous amount of nudity from her more understandable- i’m assuming that was the point to make u uncomfortable and bring up that type of issue
i didn’t get why they hammer her friend who was also a child at the time and was the same age as her should have told someone about the abuse of a celebrity… i feel like w that logic u would be upset w joslyn herself for not coming forward bc she would have more power in the situation than xander as a celeb
This show is everything!!! Love your insights, it seems majority of the people reacting to this show are adults with a child mentality watching an adult show 😂 your the first ADULT to actually watch it and digest it as an ADULT!
I would like to see more about Chloe.. it feels like she was only added in there to add to the Tedros character. I would love to see the show expand on her backstory just a little bit and how she got into this situation… it would be so interesting and it would also be able to make a statement on how minors are exploited in the music industry and in cults.
Before Destiny even said she wanted to kill tedris I was thinking the exact same thing lol I fell in love with her that moment. Plus there’s just something comforting about some black women. Even when they’re mean like Destiny. Lol I love her 😍
I chose not to watch this show from the begining because I knew it would be bad in many aspects, but still I watch every single video you make about it. You got something bad and turned it into something at least informative and educational about mental health and self-love, and thats great! Thank you for sharing the knowledge and awareness, I hope it helps a lot of people like it helps me to have better understanding of the topics this awful show brings up.
Honestly I think Joseline has been in full control from the beginning. She has learned to become a victim when needed and she knows when to use that victimization to manipulate. She is not as vulnerable as she has put off.
no seriously, the fact that before we even knew chloes background info we see her naked only for it to then be revealed shes 17, thats super gross like wth
oh my god i love your analytical approach. i have to call myself out on this one, i was the victim of childhood narc abuse, and i did turned abusive like years ago (2 or 3),, and my abusers played the victim card and kinda like... i was literally so fucking angry and bitter and frustrated (now i still live with my family bloodline members but thankfully they respect my no and respect my boundaries) and now im working on being financially independent (im still in uni)
