Hi Noble Ones! I decided to re-upload this video because I hadn't noticed that in one of the pictures I used to depict primitive humans there were scenes of nudity and intercourse. Although it was just a matter of small and not particularly evident drawings, considering my videos are often used in school, and shown to students, including young kids, I decided to re-upload it as to make my video available for teachers around the world. I apologise for the inconvenience and I will reply to all those who had commented the original video. Keep being noble, noble ones :) Metatron
Metatron talk about the less prestigious peoples of ancient Italy, their culture, warfare, and panoply. Like Samanites, Etruscans, Greek colonies and city states, tribes, etc.
It's not a far stretch. We know before metalworking was invented, natural materials like ivory or wood panels were linked together to create a segmented armor. It's not a far stretch to infer these techniques would be translated to metal versions fairly quickly.
I subscribe to the theory that the first plate armors would have been made of wooden "plates". The problem is that something like that would be impossible to prove since any wood from pre-copper age civilizations would have long since disintegrated. It makes logical sense to me since even before the advent of metal working, protecting yourself from harm would always have been important for survival. Seeing how much it takes to cut down a large tree would be all the evidence early humans would have needed to think to themselves "If I cover myself with this stuff, stone spear heads and shots from slings would have a hard time hurting me." Just my thoughts.
There are indeed instances of wood armour with visors with the haida tribe in north west British Columbia i.pinimg.com/originals/0e/79/3e/0e793e5ce851a6be0a972757cb327e21.jpg www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/haida/images/havwa02b.jpg
About tin needed to be used for bronze, there's also the option for arsenic which is more commonly found with copper. It makes for a very hard metal, and also helps with pouring copper into molds. I've been researching the copper age for a couple month and am very happy one of my favorite content creators is shedding light on such a fascinating age. Good work on the video by the way👍
That bronze punch dagger is so beautiful! I like to collect punch daggers so I have quite the soft spot for them. The most effective, combat oriented dagger in my view.
I've been attempting to put together a homebrew D&D campaign set in late Bronze Age Greece. Learning that the Dendra armor and those huge tower shields existed was mind blowing. It also happens to make a very easy conversion of typical medieval armor stats to equipment used at the tine.
If you get the chance, some of the Runquest/Glorantha setting material might be worth you taking a look at, earlier articles had its setting as a more bronze age setting with iorn just starting to appear in some cultures.
Of course the answer is that it was invented in the early bronze age, if not even before, and the Myrmidons wore some relatively advanced examples. But it was very expensive, and the bronze age collapse came, and it mostly went away. It came back later, and was improved. Yeah, that's what you said, you got this, great video as usual fratello Metatron.
Thanks mate, I've literally been saying this exact thing for years.. armor evolved from jewlery, and body armor in the form of plate or other protective garments are FAR older than most people think
@Cegesh I´m not sure, but he could mean that we don´t know how excactly it was made and depending on this, how well it actually protected. You can in fact make armour like this, that would even stop some bullets!
@@edi9892 Linothroax probably can't stop bullets (not even Renaissance era bullets) unless the bullet came from a very weak firearm and the linothroax were made impractically thick and heavy. The typical linothorax used by ancient Macedonians couldn't stop arrows from stronger bows, as Alexander of Macedon (typically portrayed in linothorax armor) was wounded by an arrow, which penetrated his armor and went into his lungs.
One theory is that Achillies alleged invulnerability may have been down to him wearing a suit of armour like the Agean Bell armour you showed. With Greaves and a shield, only the back of his legs would have been anything that could be called 'vulnerable'. It is always a balance between flexibility and protection. I suspect the long use of chain and its popularity for such a long time, compared to plate, is that it is flexible, can be worn for very extended periods of time (It is NOT a solid mass when worn so your skin can breath, well, depending on what padding you are using), and induvidual links can be easily replaced/repaired by an apprentice smith if needs be and not much in the way of 'fitting' is needed. It is like despite there being more protective helmets, many still used the salet and kettle helm, and for so long. They are just more suitable for campaigning (which usualy involves a tiny amount of combat and a lot of other tasks/hanging around).
As far as I know that isn't even a theory, it's outright stated in the Iliad that his armor and helmet were so protective and covering that Patroclus couldn't be distinguished from Achillies when wearing it.
I agree that maille is much easier to clean and maintain than plate armor, but I certainly wouldn't say that there is a linear spectrum between flexibility and protection. My reason is that even in plate armor, flexibility is almost completely unhindered, and that because it has more separately secured parts, it has a better balance of weight on the body than maille. I think maille armor was around for so long because it is much easier to make and repair, and requires much less sophisticated equipment to do so. In addition, plate armor needs to be custom fit, and so an armored doesn't just need to be a master at shaping metal, but also needs a detailed knowledge of how the body works and moves to avoid making small mistakes which cause big problems. Maille has much more leniency in this regard. In the late 14th and 15th centuries, even lower income soldiers who couldn't afford plate armor had for the most part stopped wearing maille by itself and rather chose to wore brigandines and other similar segmented armors supplemented by maille. I believe this is because of the smaller, more uniform plates being easier to mass produce and fit to the body, like with the lorica segmentata from before. As for the choice of helm, I believe open faced helms were still popular due to a normal soldier having more tasks to accomplish, as well as the face not being as much of a target when other parts of the body also aren't completely armored as they were in the case of wealthy men at arms and knights. One last thing: even if maille itself allows more heat to escape than plate does, it can still be very hot, especially in combat. This is less to the maille itself and more to the padding. I can tell you from my own experience that even in a pleasant temperature, you will become covered with sweat even from a half hour of combat training while wearing a gambeson. Interestingly though, after you've sweat so much, it becomes bearable, and I think this applies to other armors as well. It's kind of a gross equilibrium between heat and sweat.
Wow mate, you are getting it into another level. The writing, the pauses, the phrases, the edditing... you start to make me think about Unknown5 and retro ahoy.
Great video, Metatron! You definitely spread your wings through the customized holes of your suit of plate armor. Goddamn it sure feels good to be a noble one. Plate armor was arguably even as old as the Bronze Age, not just the Iron Age, considering some of the armor varieties worn by the Mycenaean Greeks. You did a great job covering that, the Dendra panoply!
Thanks for making this video Metatron, i have often seen the Dendra armour and other mycenaean plate armors come up while im browsing the net but i was never able to find a good video discussing them, well until now that is, thanks for covering the topics everybody else seems to neglect for no good reason
Hand held fullering tools over bottom swages , riffing swedge being metal to start the process of setting up the fullers, then wood bottom swedges to refine the fullers and reduce hammer marks, then lastly I think in the best examples final finish on the fullers would have been done on fire hardened heavy oils leathers in wood blocks to blend out hammer marks. Though not common there were forms of sanding cloths, but only the most wealthy of them could afford the best treatments on there armour. Rounded plates take alot of time to make. Multiply the time by 15 or 20 for the fluted stuff.
It is all about the definition. When is a breastplate called plate armor? Before the hamata became common, the romans used a quadratic iron plate hold by leather stripes to protect their breast partially. During the punic wars, such armor was still very common. So we can assume, that such quadratic breastplates made from copper are as old as smithing copper itself. turningpointsoftheancientworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/e3520412848dbb351707b960690c9a38.jpg
Love the video Metatron! I also completely agree with your idea that plate armor is far older than we give it credit to. Keep making more videos, they're awesome, historical, and informative!
@@metatronyt You are very welcome. I love the videos you put out, and I appreciate the enthusiasm, respect , and research you put into your videos and old world history overall. I respect that and how informative it is. I myself am an avid student of history and it's impact on us today. Your drive is very inspiring and influential in its own right.
You should do a video on the experimental armour of ww1, I know modern warfare isn’t your main focus but it’ll be interesting to see you cover all those strange helmet designs that look like medieval throwbacks in an age with high explosives and fully automatic machine guns. You could even argue that helmets of the modern day are loosely based off the sallet proving that helmets have never really been deemed obsolete unlike steel armour
Thank you for your notification, maybe a bit of the topic but I have to ask: A big movie about the 15th century with realistic armour and combat with all the amazing colors and the entourage with all the forgotten splendor don't want to see no dirty gray and black knights wooden castles and knitted mail in modern fantasy stories do you think a film like this will ever be made!? not disqualifying the efforts that where made in the past....
Hey Met, Congratulations for your channel! Big fun here! A question for you😎 Dropped the same question to Matt and Skall but didn’t bother to answer. I hope you do. Under the following circumstances: Assume that you will be teleported into an area that you’ll have to participate into a “Hunger Games” scenario death battle. Weapons used by everyone are any type of knives, swords, spears, blunts and pole arms. There will be no projectile weapons like bows, crossbows etc. Everyone else participating except you, will be distributed randomly historical armor sets, from bronze age up to full plate armors. They also might or might not hold any type of shields randomly. Any other participant is starting by himself but there are no rules forbidding team ups, except you off course. You have to solo the game. So you might be against more than one versus one. After eliminating an opponent, you cannot loot his armor or shield and use it for your own. Last restriction is, you have to choose one sword. Which sword would it be and and why? Thanks Met
I'm surprised you didn't mention Japanese tanko armour from the 4th and 5th centuries. The later style of tanko created a solid cuirass by riveting together smaller lames of iron - similar to the spangenhelm style of helmet construction in Europe. Cuirasses (do) made of bands riveted together appear again in Japan in the 16th century, after the introduction of firearms.
Sometimes it would be cool if you could talk a bit slower. English isn't my first language and when you talk really fast, it gets hard to catch all of the information. Besides that, great video, thank you.
The form armour takes I feel is more a result of the weapons used and the fighting techniques used at the time. As well as social factors. If simple mail will do then you won't develop plate armour. Especially not if you do not have the economy to back it up. In the late mediaeval period and especially the renaissance you had just the right circumstances for plate armour to become the a important tool on the battlefield. The weapons at that point where more then capable to penetrate mail or padded clothing. Your leadership class of combatant often lead from the front. They had the economic means to procure expensive armour. It was a status factor. All these things play in to making plate armour common in that era. Firearms did not kill the plate armour. It made it necessary as it was the only thing close to bullet proof at the time. But warfare changes and so armour adapted. It would become less and less useful to have heavy armour when you could just have the firepower advantage in the future. Mass ranks with drilling. New combat techniques. And new style of leadership made it less and less important to have heavy armoured troops on the front. Of course today we actually do have armour again. Both in the terms of having heavy armoured tanks but also soldiers them selves carry more armour on person today then they did just 50 or a 100 years ago. At the start of World War I most soldiers did not even have a proper helmet. Not because they did not know how to make metal helmets, but because they did not estimate that shrapnel would be so dangerous. But by the end of the war they where already experimenting with developing plate armour again to counter the many new weapons in world war I. And of course the tank was actually developed during the war to deal with the battle conditions that emerged. So technology do play a part it not the driving factor to when armour is going to be adopted. Technology just enabled the adoption, but other factors are needed. And as Metatron points out the actual technology you need is something even a early bronze age civilization actually have access to. And that is why we see some early examples of this sort of armour to. In many way the better question to ask if why plate armour have not been more common then it has been though history. (of course that is just the flip side of the factors I mention before. But it may help folks gain perspective on the topic) Edit: Just refined grammar a bit fixing minor things. This is also one of the post that where in the old video not that it matter much.
I don't think tanks count as armor, armor is part of the personal kit, and tanks need a crew of 4 people. A tank with a single person crew however would count as armor.
@@arx3516 Yes I hold them a bit different. But the fact is that a modern day soldier do come equip with a lot more protection then they did just 50 years ago like a mentioned. There is not really much to compare to a tank back in history. At least not that was use in war. But a tank is a perfect example of how you need not just technology to make them but also a reason to do so as well as the right social structure. In theory one could have produced primitive tanks before World War I but the closest thing was the armoured car. It was a response to the war in the western front that the tank was made. Was mainly that and that I felt someone would sooner or later mention them anyway which was the reason I did.
I've always been fascinated by the idea that even though our prehistory ancestors may have used stone tools, they may have understood the basic concepts of civilization with towns and cities. Unfortunately the evidence could not last long enough to be seen. Love your work BTW, sir
I present the Eurypterid Sea Scorpion of the Darriwilian stage of the Ordovician period 467.3 million years ago. The first true plate armored animal! (Though there is probably something even older than that somewhere...)
Hello Metatron! I really enjoy your content! One thing has been bugging me for quite some time now, please don't take it wrong... Could you consider using less saturation of the colors in your videos? Maybe you edit on a laptop, but on a mobile screen they appear strongly oversaturated and that is a little offputting. Thank you! Other than that, please continue to make great videos!
Awesome video Metaron. It basicly affirmed what I already thought. I guess the only difference is what type of metal the plate is made of that differs. We knew the Greeks had a Bronze version of plate armour that you showed, but I guess it makes sense it could go back further. The only thing the 16th century knights had over the others was their armour was all high quailty steel, and interlocked and articulated.
Like many good teachers I love how you have a non-linear approach to history. So many students in history are taught that A happened then B happened. Which, makes history boring. This nonlinear approach shows that While A was happening B and C were happening elsewhere and sometimes we would go into C and then A again as we learned more advancements. Keep up the great work.
Hi metatron i recently visited your Q&A however i dont think you got to see my question, i was wondering if you know about and have any opinion on Harukichi Shimo also known as he "Samurai of Fiume" Seeing as your an italian who studies Japan and he was a Japanese who studies Italy id think you'd be intrested in him
I love you content sir. I am a manufacturer of medieval products like for example- plate armour suit, shields, medieval helmets and chainmail items. I want to be a small part of your contents. I don't know how but i want to learn and expand my work. Thank you Regards Sameer Khalid
The Aztecs made armor out of quilted cotton soaked in salt brine. Apparently it provided adequate protection against obsidian tipped weapons. Native American tribes of the Pacific Northwest made armor out of small wooden plates sewn together and wore wooden helmets. The Hopewell Mound Builder Culture (100 BC to 500 AD) of Midwest North America made copper breastplates. However, I don't know if these copper breastplates were more for decoration, defense, or both.
Considering how valuable a plate armor would be in the bronze age it would be very likely that it gets buried with the owner like that Mycenean plate, or reused until it breaks, the latter being more probable in more primitive societies. Interesting theory, but we should wait for findings to say for certain : )
Aaaah the Dendra panoply. What strikes me (And pardon me if you mention it in your video, I'm acting like a fool and I'm commenting before actually watching the video, why am I doing this if I know it's bad, well I'm already started and I can't stop) is the legend of Achilles who could only be killed by being hit in the heels. And the dendra armors must have been so formidable in that bronze age era, and we see the only weaknesses are in the lower legs. I wonder if that inspired the myth.
Really great video i love your thought provocation. it does leave lot of questions. Why did plate armour take so long to develop in Europe during the dark and medieval periods. If armour developed along the line of the threats faced then I'd have expected plate to start much earlier. There's clearly a lot more than a requirement for more armour for it to develop it. Look how long it's taken to get bulletproof armour against weapons of the time as I'd say the balance has been with the gun. Was there even a need of better armour in the copper age how much more advanced was the weapons Vs armour ,I understand Egyptians didn't wear any? was there the capability to make it, was the concept there it's very obvious looking back but looking forward new ideas are much harder. I wish I had answers, and your supposition is sound so I don't disagree I just don't see it as simple or obvious as you seem to suggest.
I love stuff like this! Deep history of items or civilizations. My favorite is the deep history of the north American Natives. They way that Iron, and metal working was a known concept to them, but still they just all.. Could not, or did not pursue it. Likely both, they where very sophisticated in their copper work and insistent on not permanently damaging the land. But this is definitely just as fascinating!
Hey Metatron, there's something i've been wondering about in regards to greek armor. I have seen some depictions where the warriors have extra components of armor on their thighs and covering the whole right arm. What's up with that?
Palaeoloxodon Namadicus - the largest elephant to ever exist and also a contestant to the largest land mammal ever. Too bad they no longer exist :( Nice video on armour as always Raf!
In Siberia they used for a long time leather. And in egypt and America armour of reed was used. Bark is tough, animal hide is useful. Africans used crocodile skins. There is plenty of stuff to armour yourself with apart from metals.
Ah man i love you n your videos but please, pretty please do something about the audio quality! It is echoing and too much high, just maybe try another room :( But it couldn't ruin this awesome video!
I can't be sure about the exact date, no one is, too far back. So what I'm actually proposing here is just that plate is a copper age invention, and definitely not a stone age invention. Weapons are a different things because the first weapons were made of stone and wood so they are probably as ancient as mankind itself.
@@metatronyt aah thx for youre answer, for the video is does not really matter, the time of the stone age, its only part of the video. And really nice of you to say you dont know! I (sadly) have ancounters whive people who claim its a certain time ( 3.3 million years or 4000 years)
some whould say that it takes away form the achievements of medieval men but i think it's a complement to medieval ages for finding something in past that worked and improving it more efficiently than the original creators
Great video! Found it interesting that plate armour was invented even before classical times. It really gives a new perspective when viewing the evolution of armour and weapons. It would be great to know why plate armour fell out of fashion though , and also why not delve into other cultures around the world which could have invented plate armour separately. Anyways, love the video and cheers from the Philippines !
I believe it fell out of fashion because it was too expensive. The Roman army was central state powered, Medieval armies weren't professional armies in the same sense as the Roman war army was. It figures it was the rich nobility that could again afford it in as time goes by.
Greetings, Metatron ! I wonder if you have been to the Palace of The Grand-Master in Valetta, Malta. It's not that far from Italy, and the armory is worth it ! ( actually, whole Malta is historically worth it. :-) )
After every major battle on a battlefield there certainly was alot to scavenging afterwards. I wonder if the army that has won a battle was utilizing the armor from the defeated faction afterwards? I mean as material for smelting and making new ones or even fitting the scavenged ones new for other soldiers from their own faction?
just wondering how a Samurai would have react seeing such a group of knights in full plate armor highly decorated and unbelivable master craftmanship finish riding on armored horses towards him... does not have to be in battle just wondering what he would be thinking about that technology advancement over his armor... as usual a superb video
Probably wouldn't be that of a big deal the differences between the two armors weren't as big as some people think. gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspot.com/2017/10/tosei-gusoku-body-coverage-explained.html?m=1 gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspot.com/2018/10/notes-on-japanese-armor-transition-from.html?m=1
I was under the impression that the lorica musculata and muscle curiass were not made of iron/steel, but rather either made of 1) bronze or 2) molded and hardened rawhide or partially tanned leather.
