Eben and other engineers at RPi seem to have a very good relationship with the Sony factory employees. When I was there, it was obvious those involved in the Pi production lines were quite familiar with Gordon H and other Pi employees. They work together on test fixtures, line improvements, etc.
Excellent answer on the AI thing, keep it server base and leave it out of cheap boards. Faster networking or external connectivity would be a better push! This is the video update I wanted to see, so glad you got to do this interview. This might be my favorite CES related video I've seen yet.
Ha! Thanks! Initially I didn't know if Eben would even be there-this was all put together just a day or so before I left :D I'm glad I got to say hello, I know Eben was still fighting off jet lag that morning-and was probably headed out just a few hours later (maybe the next morning, not sure!).
I disagree 100%, I think the ONLY real use-case for the Pi 5 will be AI experimentation and implementation. I have no interest in a miniature, underpowered desktop computer. Being able to build and run your own AI models will be the "next thing", the way IoT was big over the last ten years.
@@joeblow229 If you have no interest why are you following raspberry pi content up to this date? The Pi 5 has no AI and if it ever came it wouldn't be a Pi 5 so what are you even talking about the Pi 5 being the "only use-case" is for AI experimentation. Read what you are writing and think to yourself if it even makes sense. Having a fast inexpensive entry level solution with PCI or faster connectivity built onboard in a fashion hats or small cables could allow you to connect and add on is the best solution for all of us. It's the whole reason a majority of our computers are built in a modular fashion. Also, how many people you know can take a AI mini board and build there own AI model? I respect your opinion but it doesn't really make sense.
@@Riiyanthere are some incredible examples of RU-vid videos of creators running different LLMs on the Pi5. Usually capped by ram unfortunately. Is really appealing to some of us to run models locally because of fine tuning (ro some degree also control) and the small form factor of the pi allow us to essentially have small portable customizable task specific models. It’s quite exciting if you’re into trying different models and tuning them.
The thing is, the Pi 4 is already an excellent little computer-I'm still running five of them in my homelab today! I'm glad they're back in stock, and CM4 are back in stock quite often too.
@@rmo9808 I forget sometimes how much a privilege it is to have a real computer store in my hometown-and in my case, less than 10 minutes away! It used to be there were like 5-10 computer stores / electronics stores in any major city :(
@@betag24cn a million per week is 48 millions per year. That's so far into overproduction that it isn't even funny. Most smartphones sell less than 48 million units (per model) per year
@@betag24cnDepends, at some point demand drops off and with extra production capability sitting idle, it adds cost. You have to find a sweet spot. Also, it's probably not completely up to RPi. They probably have to wait for their vendors to supply enough parts to allow for assembly. I don't think we are completely past the chip shortage.
@@benargee they rent time and equipment from sony in england, it can be flexible, i wish it was cheaper, rigth now it is 120 dollars on amazon, more units less price
Pi 5 has been perpetually out of stock since launch in US by all stores recommended by the official Pi website. For the ones that do offer preorders, the wait time is 3+ months guesstimate. I thought production wasn’t an issue anymore? I don’t remember having issues when the Pi3 or 4 launched. I refuse to pay scalper pricing on something intended to be inexpensive and hobbyist, it defeats the purpose. I might as well get an x86 board for $150-200+.
Production isn't the issue right now-distribution is... it sounds like at current rates, stock will catch up and we can fleece the scalpers again by April/May! That's my hope, at least. At that point, you'll probably see posts on Reddit "I have a box full of Pi 5s, I'm selling them for < MSRP!" as they try to recoup their losses.
Instead, I have been buying USFF machines like Lenovo that go for $50-60 on eBay. Complete machines with ps and space for a 2.5" drive. And then there are many other SBCs on the market.
Also a big fan of the company in general from the start. And the RP2040 is just, man. IO capability like that on a chip this price is just madness. The PIO gives an insane versatility to the GPIO pins. If I understand the current state correctly you can use PIO to create 2 TWO additional USB connections. Sure, slow ones but that's still more then enough for many devices. And that's just one example. And apparently they are actually making money on those. Judging from the availability always and everywhere.
Amen, I only recently started working with the rp2040 and found out about its versatility. The PIO was a nice surprise but also the DMA controller. You can e.g. feed data straight from the memory to a PWM pin without any involvement of the CPU. The ability to use it to emulate old RAM and ROM chips for systems like old consoles, pinball machines and other vintage stuff where original parts might not be available anymore or prohibitively expensive. I'm just blown away by how well thought out this tiny chip is, and at $0.70 per unit on a reel. I bet we'll see tons more use of it in the future, as more people learn about its full potential.
The RP2040 is a frikkin powerhouse for it's size and price. It's state machines are capable of 360Mbps sustained data rate, meaning it can even emulate DVI signals. I've used PIO in several projects and its speed keeps blowing my mind. This is what give the RP2040 its edge over the ESP32, although the ESP32 is somewhat faster at running code.
What a great interview! Loved the question that you asked and damn he really answered all the questions good without like going around the point. Looked like he was prepared! Thank you for the vid!
CM5 confirmed, nice. Hopefully they're in stock in large enough numbers for hobbyists to actually get their hands on them instead of 100% of the supply going to big industry customers as usual.
Thank you for giving EDATEC‘s products a showcase screen! We have been working hard to produce more industrial products based on Raspberry Pi and are constantly updating our product series. Looking forward to seeing more videos of you in the future!
I wonder how many people know who Eben is, on sight? I imagine that he could be walking the floor and walk up to many booths that that base their product line on his product and not even realize he is standing right in front of them. Except for the big boys like Intel and AMD, etc., I would be willing to bet the Pi accounts for a massive install base in CES products.
I haven't purchased a Raspberry Pi (not counting the Pico) since getting a Pi 3 Model B+ when it was released. Finally got an order in for a Pi 5 Model B 8GB! I'm looking forward to using it as my go-to programming platform and relocating all the microcontroller projects that keep piling up around my desktop.
Micro Center in Marietta dropped 46 Pi 5s two days ago. I bought one, bringing my collection to three. There are still 12 left today. Pi 5s are on the march!!
Fantastic video as always, was super interesting to listen to this interview! I think there’s a small error in the subtitles at 7:44 I’m pretty sure Eben says “been here for us all week”, not “been here for a little week”
@@james-cucumber Always glad to do so! As someone who's suffered from poor eyesight at a couple points in life, and sensory issues at others... I know how valuable accessible content can be! I just wish I could do more-right now it's all I can do to enunciate clearly for blind viewers, and subtitle cleanly for deaf/hard-of-hearing (or those who need to watch on mute for whatever reason!).
Please keep the store in Leeds. My son and visited on Saturday during traffic madness weekend with the taking the footbridge out at Armley roundabout (key road in and out Leeds) we bought the camjam #3. Hope to buying more picos soon. Thank you both for this weeks video.
The Pi ship has sailed for me personally. So many promises but rarely delivered. I own a Pi 2 and have owned multiple Pi 3 units. With the Pi 4 and its Gb Ethernet and USB 3, I wanted to build a low power NAS because the 100Mb on the Pi 3 doesn't cut it, but they never seemed to be in stock in my region and I wasn't about to pay scalper pricing. I ended up switching to a low power i3 server build. Though it's not quite as power efficient, it is more powerful and a lot easier to source. Plus I can easily upgrade the RAM and CPU if they don't meet my needs (but so far so good).
Yes the availability has been poor on average, that has been a nagging downside. It prevents the machines from being used in commercial products that require a steady supply. And the problem hasn't generally been production, their lines are running a top speed but they simply cannot get them to the consumers fast enough.
Brings back memories of the 486SX vs 486DX discussions on chat boards. If you build it they will come... ...around. Ironically, my Pi zero w updated gravity in the background while I tried to post this...
Availability is better than with the Pi 4, that is a really good sign for the Pi's future albeit we get into regions where small x86 boards like the N100 can be cheaper.
Great interview Jeff. Excellent questions for Eben. Maybe this can be a somewhat quarterly quickie interview thing you two do going forward? (even if a pi-tele-connect) Good solid clarification to common questions that many have.
Totally agree with PI CEO, AI is a problem looking for a solution, adding it to the PI is a thing that's not going to be used by a good number of users.
Raspberry Pi's would be exciting and all. If it wasn't for a lot of people discovering mini pc's during the shortage and price hikes. Including me. Either a second hand enterprise one with ssd and memory for sub $100 or new ones with low tdp Intel cpu's for less then double that. I am about to install proxmox on mine and will probably expand that to a cluster of similar machines going forward. Just for the hell of it. They just aren't the no-brainer alternative they once where. Unless you have very little space for your homelab. Or need it for some kind of hardware project....
I wonder if a Raspberry Pi Zero 3 is in development. It would be nice to see a 8GB model. Also it would be cool to see a 16GB Raspberry Pi 5 down the pike too.
It is easy to forget that the Raspberry Pi Foundation was set up to create a very cheap all in one computing platform to teach kids to program and interface to devices like servos, sensors and so on. Now it's migrating to being a platform used by manufacturers of tens of thousands of different products, in small and medium runs.
In Norway they’re available but the prices are kept to their scarcity price . No longer a cheap hobbyist machine that was good about it. Tired of paying through the nose
Farnell is selling the 8GB RPi5 for NOK900, which is about £69 or €80 but no supplies until the first week in February. If you can hold out for a couple of weeks, there is no need to pay tout prices. Still, it's a far cry from the £25 these boards started out from when they were just a hobbyist thing.
@@egbront1506 You can still buy the earlier models at the original prices. With the Pi 5 you have got 2.5 times the computing power for $5 more than the Pi4. That seems like a pretty good deal.
@@jamesh9756 I'm in the UK so getting hold of one is easier than most for me. Having said that, looking at real world tests on RPi5, I would manage my expectations somewhat if you are expecting 2.5x the computing power of the RPi4.
He said that they published a document that enables people to design hardware for cm4 that can work with cm5. That’s very different from saying the already designed hardware is going to work with it.
Mostly, I hope. I haven't gotten access to the PIP document yet, so can't be certain. But I think the major differences will be some interfaces are faster-so signal integrity on carrier boards is even more important on Pi 5-and power requirements might be slightly higher (so some boards might not have a beefy enough supply).
"Where are the Pi 5's?" "Jeff, you already own all three of them that we made!" I hope you're having a great time in Vegas. Make sure to enjoy the good food!
Haha I wish! I've gotten two (in addition to the alpha board I was provided for testing pre-launch), waiting for more availability before I buy a few more.
Great work catching the mention of CM5. I think that's the first official confirmation, and based on the facepalm, I kinda think he didn't intend to reveal that yet.
Fantastic interview Jeff! Especially the AI & Hat thing parts. Felt inspired by Eben's openness and honesty. We've just created an RPi5-based vision AI product. Would be great if you see and try it. Thank you!😃
Asking about AI in regards to Raspberry is a bit delusional, don't you think? I mean those are literally opposite ends of the market. I get that AI is the new buzzword but come one, that's just ridiculous. The baseline for useful 7B/13B 4bit models is an RTX 4060 Ti 16GB for local inference. That's a 450 Dollar Card. You're not gonna connect that to a Raspberry Pi.
Yeah its misleading, those embedded NPUs process specially prepped, quantized object segmentation models for image processing and object recognition and thats IT! It was only recently that they beta released the RK3588 RKNN API that let you even do a basic matrix dot product instead of process a specially prepared standard model like YOLOv5, InceptionSSD or mobilnet.
Should have asked about 1 and 2 GB models. The biggest complaint I hear about the pi5 in comments online is that it's not a cheap SBC anymore. But that's mainly because there's no low RAM option yet (which they clearly intend to make as it's right there on the board, with the config resistor)
Good to hear that the Leeds shop is officially not-really-a-pop-up now - that's basically what the guys in there said when I went in before Christmas. Could be a bit dangerous for my wallet though, having easy retail availability like that!
Purchased 2 pi,5 s runs smooth used 1 as a HTPC with Ubuntu and Kodi on it, the second is for my lab , purchased a Argon case which i also had for my pi 4 in the past.
Bought mine from there right before Christmas. No preorder, or waiting times (smidge pricey though) and it runs Recalbox very well. All I want now is an inline power switch.
looks like i am going to Leeds in the uk. for my Pi fix. only live 30 miles down the M1 (Free way (for the USA)) .... Thanks Jeff did not know about the Pi store in Leeds (so i learnt something).
FRIGATE! How good! I've just gone down this rabbit hole myself, but unlike you, I'm a complete n00b with docker and home assistant. I'm getting there, but it's been a mission. Setup guide video?
Good news overall, but kinda sad to see no real news about any new products in the vein of the rp2040. It seems like Jason heard the question as something about giving the 2040 ai acceleration, but I'd just like to know if we'll see any new rp microprocessors, like something with more or less gpio.
I also asked about that separately... but had forgotten to ask more specifically while recording! They have been, of course, working on 'what's next' (they've said as much in the forums), and unfortunately are tight-lipped on specifics. I know there are a few things that have bugged *me* while using RP2040-hopefully power consumption/sleep is better (so use with batteries is easier), and it would be really cool to get any more IO, especially after the Bluetooth feature enablement gobbled up a tiny bit more of it! We'll see if they can do any of that in the next generation (would technically be their third chip, since RP1 was designed first!). Not sure how they could cram much more in the same package size, though. And just shrinking process nodes isn't as useful on a microcontroller like this, AFAIK-there are other concerns with GPIO and sensitivity and stuff (but I'm no chip engineer!). I was planning on doing a full video on battery-powered Pico projects, but was having enough trouble matching longevity on smaller battery cells to similar ESP projects I scrapped that idea for now :(
At the price of a few bucks each, the pico 2w (rp2040 based) is a pretty good microcontroller at a dirt cheap price. It doesn't make much sense to roll ai in to that. If ai is required you probably do not want a microcontroller and move to a small computer. Or... leave the pico 2w as is and then come up with a separate board, which I'm sure would cost WAY more.
@@JeffGeerling The upgrade I like to see most is a better ADC. The conversion unit itself is fine but the net functionality is rather low-grade right now because of a jittery reference voltage. Unfortunately that's a natural consequence of the cheap and efficient switching voltage regulator. It's the best choice for the board but not for the ADC. I hope they are looking at solutions and find an affordable way at scale. I fear it might fall into the same category of "only relevant to max 20% of our customers" but I also think that there are limits to that policy. Sometimes you have to add quality to keep the majority onboard longterm.
Wrt more features, Eben is right AI is going to add cost. Keep in mind that a pi with a pcie board is starting to get closer to the cost of a minipc with comparable performance. Let's not make the pi more expensive. Keep it simple and low cost.
i just don't understand how a single board computer that used to cost 35 dollars, is now 80 - 110. When other single board makers are selling theirs for less.
Yes, a disappointing departure from their core principles, but locking in a low price didn't help with shortages... maybe pricing out hoarders will. Probably not tho.
To be fair, that £25 board had 512MB of RAM instead of 8GB, fast ethernet instead of Gigabit, no onboard wifi and just USB 2.0 connectivity instead of a PCIe lane. People kept wanting more performance and more features and those can't come for free as the Pi already uses the cheapest components it can.
@@JeffGeerling Is 2GB still viable with the push to eliminate 32-bit operating systems? If so I'd love to see this as an option..... also there should be a path to upgrade the memory even if it means taking it somewhere to have the chip replaced with a bigger one!
I have never used an NPU that was not disappointing. From Coral to the embedded RK3588 NPU they all use quantized models with limited functionality and always bugs bugs bugs. Limited model support with widely varying functionality. Always something missing. If they were everything they could be they would basically be GPU's.
True; though for particular niches, if you can program around the quirks, they are quite useful. Like Coral + Frigate is a match made in heaven at this point... makes running NVR on Pi almost too easy! (Video on that soon).
I would've very much liked to see wifi 6 support for the Pi 5. It would've given an enormous boost in terms of bandwidth especially on the 2.4 GHz spectrum. My 2.4 GHz network is using only a 20MHz channel width because of the many other networks around and because it's antisocial to eat up more than 1 channel when there are only 3 non-overlapping channels available. With wifi 5 that means there's only 72 Mbps max (technically it's wifi 4 still because wifi 5 only works in the 5 GHz band). Wifi 6 and later versions provide much better throughput even at somewhat weaker signals. This would've made the Pi 5 less reliant on a physical LAN cable. Now the Pi 5 feels more like a Pi4+ for me and I'm not running to replace my 4's.
Too bad you are not a RU-vid creator or a "professional" (as defined by Pi Corp. Your only hope is that 6 months after the next model come out you can actually get one.
I put a pre-order in the day it opened here in Australia ... I was told last week I will be waiting another 6-8mths before I can get a single unit ... so I have already swapped my projects off to Banana / Orange Pi units and tbh I dont think I will return, even though I have supported them with multiple multiples of units in each generation.
You'd be better off ordering from one of the UK sellers that have them in stock now (Pimoroni apparently have a 10% off offer right now), if official local sellers have such a delay
That's wrong. You need to change resellers, you could maybe get a device within a couple of weeks by shopping around. Which reseller is quoting another 6 months?
I can say that it has been mentioned by various employees at various times on the forums. I have not seen one but I'm like 99% sure a Pi 500 will exist. I really hope they include a built-in M.2 NVMe slot, as that would turn what's already a fun little keyboard-computer into something quite a bit more usable/reliable!
it would be nice if they would skip the 5V limit and do other options to be able to cluster them on a 12V rail or so , that is more available than 5V plus cables are smaller cost will be lower and so on
Aah the guy who looks like Jason Statham and speaks like Boris Johnson always interesting seeing him. Also if they are making this many pi's who tf is buying them up and is there actually that high of a demand for them?
The year I spent at a technical college in Halifax, UK I remember going on the bus to Maplin in Leeds, sadly it is no more, so a RPi popup would be a good fit for Leeds.
I believe they may be including a non-impedance-matched FFC cable-that would definitely cause some errors in the signaling, and it would be interesting to test a cable from the Pineberry Pi in their HAT to see if it works better.
Raspberry Pi stores? That's awesome! I've been buying and using Pis for al sorts of hobby and commercial applications since the very beginning, so it's great to se they're doing well. Meanwhile in Australia, Pi 5 is not even close to being available....
Core has Pi5 kits in stock, Pi5, PSU and SD card is $181.40 so yeah it is nearly a $50 premium but it is available if you need one. I had no issues getting a 4 and a Coral so will stick with that for dev and change to a 5 when I am ready to rollout.
Do anybody know if the DeskPi Super6C will be able to take CM5 boards - ofcause if the connecters are the same and the physical dimentions allow it? Should I buy a Super6C now or wait until CM5 gets out? I have some CM4's and want to get started with the Super6C 🙂
Problem with the Pi5 is that I can't get anything I used with my old Pis to work due to the RP1 chip. Have a sweet little 3.5 inch touch screen that won't work for beans. I'm miffed I spent money on the 5 since despite the fact they said it is backwards compatible, it is not.
Thank you for the video! I am a bit sad about RPi5. Definitely it's a good board. But I don't see a reason to use it for Computer Vision and Machine Learning. It's not the fastest board on the market. And not the cheapest one. There are a lot of boards with better performance for the same price. And a few other problems for RPi5: 1) No video encoding (a common task for some security tasks in computer vision). 2) Require a good power supply (and a lot of cooling) 3) Needs additional hat to use M.2 / pretty slow M.2 All of this is not critical. But there are fewer and fewer reasons to use it.
I hear what you are saying. I guess most people are using Pi s as a small desktop/server computer. It was originally focus on Linux and using tge gpio. I agree with you, and a minipc might be more suitable (for consideration at least),
The only reason I want to get a pi 5 is because they say that it can run dual mipi dsi display (with official lcd). No other sbc maker promised this afaik, other than cm4, but I agree. Pi was not supposed to be a home server, it's main purpose is it's gpio and a computer all in one, and being low powered (not anymore). Not to mention good software support compared to others that offer the same product, even though they have comparable/better hardware than a pi.
Funny thing is, board like orange pi 5 is more expensive compared to a raspberry pi 5 in my country, let's just hope scalper will not notice this yet...
@@jamesh9756 I just realised that the 'official' dsi lcd they offer is actually only number to 1, not to mention its a 480x800 7 inch, ips touchscreen display. That's a dealbreaker considering how powerful & expensive pi 5 really is. Guess I'm not getting a pi 5 then cause that's the only reason I wanted one. Should've just gone for eDP instead of dsi since they use broadcom. It's 2024 & the minimum is like 10.1" 1280x720 IPS, yet they still think it's a good idea to release a pi 5 with dual dsi capability and only have a measly 480x800 lcd? Lol I'm just a hobbyist so I've no idea what I'm blabbering about but from my perspective, they suck.
Still no Pi5 in sweden since nov last year, but you can order them from Denmark. About NVME position, I think the underside is the best, cause you dont want anything above where you want the cooling. I also think no AI in pipeline is a big mistake, cause its something every company wants to buy into right now. If I remember right, coral has hardly any software support anymore? its some old tflite library and so on. But I can be wrong
About that NVME on the underside, I am betting on our good friends from Argon, something similar to the M.2 bottom for their Argon One case for the RPi4.
Those sorts of computers are for end users, not major industry partners who have priority deliveries for anything they manufacture. Your mistake is thinking that Raspberry Pi cares about anyone other than their major industry partners who can afford to buy millions of dollars worth of hardware at a time.
I wish they would make a legit amazon store.... Pis are so over priced over there.... I think it was like 150 for 8gb and 120 for 4gb last time I looked..... Also hopefully we see the RP2040 update soon, I really like seeing, and following the projects people come up with.... I also I know their thing is making the pi credit card sized, but it'd be cool to see one maybe 2, or 3 times as big with full PCIE, M.2/Sata adapter, dual ethernet, and all the cool stuff like that.
Speaking of Coral, I thought of using an appropriate-model accelerator to see which of various devices with WiFi sockets lying fallow could host it, but, as far as I can tell, the Edge TPU compiler is not only closed source, but restricted specifically to Debian and derivatives (not just any Linux) on x86-64... deal-breaker.
I guess I really lucked out and got mine already in late September, phew.. It's a decent upgrade from Rpi4, and with Pineberry nvme hat it's very capable NAS 😊
Honestly I'm not sure-I haven't seen the document (yet), but sometimes there are notes in those documents that are either (a) easily taken out of context if you're not a board designer, or (b) proprietary info from an upstream manufacturer (like Broadcom?) that Raspberry Pi isn't allowed to share outside of NDA. NDA's are quite annoying, but I understand why they have them. Open source devs like me are a slight bit allergic to them though.
And not just open source devs: my employer will not let me sign an NDA without engaging the legal department. Disappointing when you go to a "public" lecture, but have to leave when you get to the door.
No need to worry but why do you need to guidance anyway? The CMs are designed for industrial customers. Just use the Pi5, mostly the same feature set in a much more usable format.
@@jamesh9756 I thought having a look at the document wouldn't hurt. Just to see if the carrier I designed for myself will be compatible with the upcoming CM5 or, if not, how severe the modifications necessary might be.
