Gotta keep those popcorn chewing twits happy with lots of action and jokey jokes and less pathos and background details as that might hurt the consumer's fragile minds!
Probably something like "The kids won't get it, so do it in the other stuff" from some exec that doesn't talk to their kids/grandkids or doesn't have kids/grandkids.
Because people complained so much about the politics and background of the Clone Wars in the Prequels. So they opted to go the full OT route and make it vague.
Sure I always thought this was a misfired complaint. I personally thought the politics was one of the more compelling parts of the PT. It was the execution that was the problem, not the ideas. The OT could get away with not addressing the politics because it was the entry into the world and everything was new. But if you’re gonna expand the world, you need to give it context. And sometimes that means politics.
Fandom Entertainment thanks so much for this Joe. This makes so much more sense. I’m too old to read all the new canon books - I just wish the movies covered it too. Perhaps the Mandalorian and other TV shows can flesh it out more. Its pretty interesting the way you presented it!
the base story is amazing, the books are even more. there's a big paralel of the original series being WW1 and sequels were supposed to be WW2. But then the last jedi happened,and didn't moved the story at all in fact the story happens in a small fraction fo hours, then the 3 comes and at this point we got palpatine cloning, Rey palpatine skywalker etc etc.
Fans: So who's this first order Disney: You'll find out in episode 8 SWTLJ Rian Johnson: (twist) no they won't Disney: You'll find out in episode 9 SWTRoS
I mean, or JJ could have dedicated like 90 seconds of dialogue in TFA for an exposition dump of "the First Order, you know, the remnants of the Empire that have been hiding out in the Unknown Regions building strength in the shadows, etc." I mean, JJ did literally take a foot-soldier from the First Order and immediately introduce him to the protagonist who's been on a dump desert planet her whole life who could legitimately benefit from a quick review/primer of that backstory, but instead let's blame Rian.
I honestly do not care for this timeline at all. The most interesting stories in my eyes are before the entire Skywalker saga. The Old Republic lore FTW
@@juggernogsoda3464 Fin was actually a good concept for a character though, at least only in the Force Awakens. A random Stormtrooper, who is a complete nobody and not even a force sensitive individual, gets to hold a lightsaber and have a duel against Kylo Ren was pretty cool, if you ask me, even if he lost.
The First Order was part of JJ Abrams soft reboot of Episode 4. It's just a reskin of the Empire. Snoke was a reskin of the Emperor. Kylo Ren is a reskin of Darth Vader.
Good intention, poor execution. Please don't get me wrong. I love the lore building they're doing for the First Order. And maybe it was intentional that we went in blind. But could we maybe have just had something of this caliber in the films?
You didn't need books to understand what was going on in the first two trilogies, haven't seen last skywalker yet, but the first two in this trilogy have just been bad storytelling.
That was super helpful. Dumb history after Return of the Jedi but good sum up. How the First Order has the infrastructure, money and manpower to produce fleets and a star killer is beyond me. The New Republic has some sort of fleet right? Just assuming since I haven’t seen it.
Thanks Joe! I've been ranting about not knowing why there's a resistance and where the first order came from, but didn't feel like buying a bunch of books and comics and movies, just to find out what should've been in the movies.
Appreciated this, since I wondered how The First Order came about (I figured they were leftover Empire people, maybe it was even said in The Force Awakens) and I'm not into this universe enough to read the books, comics, and play the games.
@Erik Lerström Haven't seen the new one yet, so dunno if it does. I don't know whether it's important that we know how The First Order came to be -- it was never important to know the origin of The Empire in the original trilogy. These stories are pretty slight, evil exists and that's usually it. But yes, if a large part of understanding Rise Of Skywalker and your enhancement of enjoyment in watching it hinges on a bunch of extended universe stuff, that's a failing of the film. That said, I know from having been big into other franchises, how awesome it feels to be rewarded for consuming EVERYTHING canon when something in the main show or film series references and builds on one of the better comic books or novel tie-ins. But if that's the case with the new Star Wars (doesn't sound like it, from the reviews so far), then they were made mostly for hardcore fans (and the studio figured everyone else will just be happy with the shiny stuff and big emotions).
Dosney rilled miss the spot here. They could do something like a pre-sequel trilogy with this story and then moving to the sequel after. That way they would top 12 movies which means more MONEY. Also the sequeles would work better with some backstory.
I’ve tried to be very open-minded with the new trilogy. I enjoy many moments and characters within them. I wish though that the first order wasn’t just a rebooted empire. It kind of feels like a cheap antagonist to come up with, and the movies don’t really flesh out what they are after, why they exist, and also why they hate the resistance so much. Thanks for the video. While it did help to fill a lot of gaps, it still has me shaking my head why they couldn’t have tried a new antagonistic force.
I really want a Clone Wars like TV show with the main characters set in between 8 and 9 It really helped out the prequels that were hated and I think it's gonna help out now And I also think we need a Stupidly long extended version for the TROS so that the pace can be slower
Without this context it makes it seem like they twisted logic to recreate the Empire-Rebel dynamic in the sequel trilogy. Granted they probably did and gave context to it later. That being said this information makes it a hell of a lot more interesting and should have been a big part of the trilogy or a series/television show that came out before or alongside it
It's just stupid to have to rely on lore to get a better idea and context as to what's going on. Like what, you have to do your homework to enjoy future star wars films better? That shouldn't be the case. If these details in the story are important to the context of the narrative, then why not include those essential plot details in the actual films?
Even if we didn't get the FULL explanation given here, weaving the background context of this into The Force Awakens would have made that movie significantly better. Just as the original Star Wars movie referenced the Clone Wars, the Force Awakens should have had at least a few lines to help us understand the basic state of the Republic and First Order. Based on Force Awakens, I thought the First Order was already in full control, and I had no understanding of what the significance of the planets that Starkiller base blew up were. It's just sad, honestly.
@jisus max The whole point that I was making was that it's poor storytelling to leave out huge amounts of vital context. I liked Force Awaken on the whole, but I found the complete lack of context very distracting. It actively took me out of the movie when Starkiller base blew up those planets and the sad dramatic music played because I had no idea 1) who the first order was 2) how they connected to the Empire 3) what those planets were 4) if they were important, and on and on. Providing that context in a separate book is no excuse for poor storytelling, especially since the only way I could have avoid that confusion was to travel six months into the future, read Bloodlines, travel back in time to the movie premiere, and then actually feel like I knew why Leia's group was called the "Resistance" instead of, say, the "Galactic Army" as I would have expected from the end of Episode VI.
Great explanation. As far as I knew the First Order came about because Domino's messed up their first order and Ben got all emo on them. "Uncle Snoooke! I wanted pepperoni!"
Thanks for the explanation Joe, it was fun & insighhtful. While I do feel more informed now this has also added to my frustration at how the new trilogy was handled. The og films were a simple concept in a complex universe, exactly as you mentioned in the beginning, but the new trilogy has overly complex lore which wouldn't improve the films if it were expanded on. The whole thing has become a Russian doll of puzzle boxes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy them, I just wish they weren't overthinking it & constantly putting a hat on a hat.
You cannot use the originals to explain why the first order is gonna be explained the same way. The originals, was a new way to tell a story, never done before. It was a start of something new. We, as movie makers, have evolved and have much higher expectations. We expect better. You cannot use the originals anymore as an example. You have to do better. Otherwise, let’s just make movies without sound and black and white cause it has work best in the past.
wedge9998 before Star Wars, sci fi was a joke. Never taken seriously. It revolutionized and transcended the medium as a who and create the billion dollar empire we know today. But the problems of, we didn’t know much about the emperor then, the back story of the empire, and numerous other complaints is because it was a story of epic proportions that was never told before. We have clearly gotten past that now where you need to start explaining things in film.
@@animegaming4057 I see where you're coming from there. I would say they brought good storytelling to sci fi to transcend the genre. The special effects were revolutionary though.
This is like one of my favorite podcasts, Geek History Lesson. except much shorter, with some helpful visuals, and a Joe! (a Joe improves everything always)
What should have happened is a movie where after Return of the Jedi, Snoke manipulates civilization about jedis for his rise to power to where the galaxy turns their backs on Jedis and make them out to be the way of the past and only out for their own benefits, above laws, criminals and force them to either turn in their lightsabers and denounce the force or be arrested or executed and that causes luke and ben to go into hiding where luke trains ben and ben becomes corrupted by Snoke to capture luke Skywalker and that causes the first empire to take over the galaxy which should have been the first movie
I never liked how the first order even was able to exist. To me they just felt like the empire under a different name, meaning what luke and everything that took place in the OG Trilogy just meant nothing.
Joe Starr ,sweet summer child. You would be welcomed here in Florida, especially to rent jet skis on the Gulf Coast ( the summer vacation bros would like that ). You could have a supplementary income gathering up "flat grouper" lol.
Wait, Leia is outed as Darth Vader's daughter and everyone's like: "yeah, let's go back to the Empire/First Order, sounds good to me." Am I missing something here?
When u put it that way ur right it doesn’t make sense but I think the idea is that those are 2 separate groups tho. The politicians in the new republic who were shocked and appalled at discovering Leia’s heritage are different than the groups who supported the empire/first order.
