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Where Does This Cloud Come From?  

Tommy Technetium
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#VeritasiumContest ‪@veritasium‬
When dry ice is placed in water, a cloud forms. A lot of people say the water in this cloud comes from water vapor in the air, but I'm not so sure...
This video is being submitted to the Veritasium SciComm Contest.
Contact: Tom.Kuntzleman@arbor.edu

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8 авг 2021

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Комментарии : 9   
@Rheenen
@Rheenen 2 года назад
I want you to record this with a phantom camera close up
@liqwid2372
@liqwid2372 2 года назад
The key to understanding this phenomenon lies in understanding what is actually happening when solid CO2 sublimes in liquid water. I imagine that if we could observe this process directly, it would be incredibly violent and tumultuous owing to the huge temperature difference between the two materials. I imagine that the flow of thermal energy into the solid CO2 from the water is not perfectly uniform across the interface. I imagine that the CO2 molecules are not breaking off of a perfect crystal lattice and one by one leaving the surface to either diffuse into the water or pile up and form a pure little CO2 bubble. Instead, I imagine that water molecules are interacting with the surface of the polycrystalline solid CO2 in some places more than others, causing a great deal of stress in the material and opening fractures in the grain boundaries and other defects. I imagine that relatively large chunks of solid CO2 are being launched away from the bulk of the material, being propelled by the pressure of gaseous molecules of CO2 which have just absorbed the energy required to sublime and are now bouncing back and forth inside of the fractures, which very quickly forces these chunks off into the vast abyss of liquid water. I imagine that these chunks continue to absorb a great deal of heat from the water, exploding into smaller and smaller pieces, until there is nothing left but CO2 gas. I imagine that other volumes of gas are being created nearby from other chunks and that these volumes, if they are close enough in space and time, will merge to form large bubbles. We know that the water has a fairly high surface tension and we are only under about 1 atmosphere of pressure, so very little of the CO2 will readily diffuse into the water, and bubbles will be formed. Now, remembering how I imagined these bubbles were initially created, we must not forget that there was water in the midst of that chain of explosions. The water that interacted with the solid bits of CO2 transferred thermal energy to the CO2, which cooled and slowed the water down, and at the same time made the CO2 go crazy. So the water in the midst of all those chaotic explosions of gas suddenly found itself blasted into pieces and surrounded by a volume of CO2 gas. These tiny pieces of water will quickly shape themselves into tiny spheres or droplets due to surface tension and become suspended in the volume of CO2 gas due to their small size. This volume of gas may now merge with another volume of gas to become a bubble large enough to carry the droplets up to the surface of the water to form your cloud.
@TommyTechnetium
@TommyTechnetium 2 года назад
You have some interesting ideas, and great imagination! We have looked into this process in some detail, but like you, I wish we could probe more deeply. Any suggestions for how to look more closely at this process would be appreciated. If you would like to see some of our additional studies on the dry ice cloud, see the following links: pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ed400754n and also www.chemedx.org/blog/dry-ice-water-cloud.
@liqwid2372
@liqwid2372 2 года назад
​@@TommyTechnetium Thanks. I just read your blog post. I think I have heard that explanation before, but it did not sit well with me. First of all, I am fairly certain that in order for water vapor to condense, you need a nucleation point. You need to have some heavier particle for the H2O gas molecules to collide with and stick to, to form a droplet around. Even in contact with a very cold gas, I do not think that the molecules of water vapor will slow down enough to condense on their own. I thought that there are probably many impurities in the water, and perhaps the dry ice contains soot and other contaminants that could serve as nucleation points. However, I do not expect there to be very much evaporation from the cold water in the bottom of the beaker. Water has a low vapor pressure. The amount of droplets observed, the cloud production we can see, just seems far and above what I would expect from a simple process of evaporation and condensation inside a dry ice gas bubble, even if there are plenty of nucleation sites. I am also not convinced that there is "a continuous bubble of CO2 around the dry ice". I think that it's a mess down there, and there is occasionally contact between liquid water and solid CO2. I could be wrong on this though. I tried to incorporate that sort of leidenfrost effect into my hypothesis, but it just muddied the concept I was trying to explain. Even if there is a gas layer providing perfect insulation of the dry ice from direct contact with the water, I still suspect that there may be solid bits of CO2 shooting off of the dry ice, through the gas layer, and splashing into the water. This would easily produce droplets as the situation is analogous to dropping a bomb in the ocean. A large spray of water droplets will fly back into the gas layer and become suspended. Lastly, I am not sure how to look more closely at this process. Is it possible to use X-ray diffraction? I am not actually a materials scientist, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night.
@what9n6
@what9n6 2 года назад
Is there anyway I can contact you about an experiment you did in thr past about dry ice
@TommyTechnetium
@TommyTechnetium 2 года назад
I'd be happy to answer your question. Can you simply ask it here in the comments?
@what9n6
@what9n6 2 года назад
@@TommyTechnetium when you tested how different liquids reacted with dry ice. You wrote a paper in it afterwards. I was wondering of you had the exact amounts of dry ice you used and the exact amounts of each liquid used in the experiment?
@TommyTechnetium
@TommyTechnetium 2 года назад
@@what9n6 I usually add somewhere between 2-10 g of dry ice to 100 g of liquid
@what9n6
@what9n6 2 года назад
@@TommyTechnetium sweet ty
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