This episode goes back to our roots of good old-fashioned military history. It's something we'd like to start doing more of. Of course, West Point and Annapolis are the most famous, but we think that diving into the officer training of forces like the Wehrmacht or Red Army could tell us a lot about their histories. There is also a whole bunch of options for military history topics that we'd like to get into. Let us know in the comments if you have any suggestions. Before commenting, read our rules of engagement: community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
Yes please, that is a great idea! I would definitely like to see the difference of army officer training, especially of the Britain and Germany (with their know military tradition), and Japan.
I was born and raised in Japan, yet my older sister was born in the USA and went to the Naval Academy. (she had to give up joint citizenship to do so) And is Commander now. She says while the Acadamy concept may seem archaic and traditionalistic yet does well weeding out those not of the character required for naval service. Thank you so much for your presentation as always Indy-san.
@Naim Miah Yes wish I was American Citizen it would be cool to go to the Academy as she has. But I am 19 now and not a US citizen oh well always next life.
Given the behavior of the US military during the political turbulences of the last year they are certainly doing a better job in sorting out people of questionable charakter than the civil authorities or the police. And this can not be noted as important enough because it is the difference between an army that defends democracy and a power that can be used to destroy it.
@@kikufutaba1194 Well, since you're a Japanese citizen, why don't you apply to the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force school at Etajima Naval Base? That would be the Japanese equivalent.
I saw the word Naval and remembered that it was the Navy in the Pacific that meant the US was going to win. It was the Navy and Naval aviation that held on and kept fighting.
I think Japan could be interesting since all we hear most of the time is about their interservice rivalry and not much about how do they train their officers in the Naval academy at Etajima. Edit: I believe it's also a good chance to do a biography special on Captain Tameichi Hara. His life in the IJN is a hell of a story from having an affair with a Geisha and almost got disowned by the Navy and his family, creating a new torpedo doctrine, participating in almost all major actions during the war, criticizing almost every Japanese admiral for their ineptness and cautiousness, and almost being court martialed for sending a direct letter to Emperor Hirohito.
Addendum: US Coast Guard Academy (founded 1876) also contributed officers in all theaters of WWII. Meritorious as both officers and enlisted coxswains alike on landing craft and landing zones as marshals ashore, during the preceding North African, Sicilian, Italian landings, and leading up to the great D-Day Invasion as well as the island hopping campaigns of the Pacific, the US Coast Guard endured the highest casualty rate precapta of any American service throughout WII. The US Coast Guard Academy is in New London, CT. No congressional appointment is necessary nor accepted. There are no notable heroes in the US Coast Guard. That is not for want of valor, just not many medals big enough for what they do every day in the first place. "The book says you got to go out. Nothing says you got to come back." Semper Paratus!
"There are no notable heroes in the US Coast Guard." If you are speaking of higher ranks (Admirals and such) you may be right. However, I would submit that Douglas Munro, who received a posthumous Medal of Honor for his actions rescuing Marines at Guadalcanal while under heavy fire, certainly fits the criteria of a 'notable hero'. Just before succumbing to his wounds, his final words to a fellow Coastguardsman were, "Did we get them all out?" To the very end he placed others above himself. Semper Fi.
I wasn't good enough for the Coast Guard, so I had to settle for being a Marine. ;) Whether it was after Katrina or at Umm Qasr, y'all were always great to work with. Immense respect. 👍🏼
This officer training episode could become a special series for several other nations in World War Two. Not just including Britain, Italy, The Soviet Union, and Germany, but also countries like Hungary, Bulgaria, Finland, and more. If you wanted to, you could go further into discussing how regular soldiers were trained in each country to prepare for war. You could also talk about how the training for soldiers and officers evolved as the war went on.
I would definitely be interested in specials for the less talked about nations. Finland seems to have a lot going for it in many ways that may merit digging into, and an episode about Italy's system (with the hindsight that Italy's greatest flaw was probably in its command) would definitely add some flavourful context
Eisenhower is credited with saying, "If you want a report, get a West Pointer, if you want something done, get an Aggie." I don't know the Nimitz version, but am certain it existed.
I served as an Army officer in the 70s, via ROTC. There were many more of us than there were ‘ring knockers’ from West Point. It was understood that they were ‘Generals in the making’, and not in tune with the average young soldier. Having spent our college years, Having spent our college years, carousing with the civilian population, we had a better feel for society. The troops considered them naïve in the ways of the world, as they had just spent their formative, college years, under the cloistered, military discipline regimen of the Academy. A popular joke described an officer and a soldier leaving a restroom. “You didn’t wash your hands!” The West Pointer scolded. “My momma taught me not to pee on my hands.” The soldier replied, casually.
Over the years I had one company commander (CPT) and one company XO (2LT, filling in) who were West Point grads. And can confirm - they were seriously out of touch with how the real world worked versus what they were taught the Army was supposed to be like. Especially when it came to dealing with lower enlisted soldiers, they really didn't understand the concept of 'soft power' and how to get people to do stuff without having to bark orders and make threats. The OCS folks and especially the prior-enlisted officers tended to be better leaders in that department.
1:12 not sure if I mentioned it before, but I really love the "old fashion" slideshow of images used here. Somehow it makes it more cozy, so high-five to the person on the team who came up with it
My Father had been in and out of the Army or National Guard several times. When WW2 broke out, he was on active duty. Began as Sergeant, moved up through the ranks as a Mustang, all the way to Captain. His philosophy was to see to it his men were taken care of before he was. His people were watered, fed, sheltered, and medically before he was. And he treated everyonefairly and equally. No officer elitism in his command. And his people would do anything tasked to them. He earned a BS degree in psychology while in the Army. Retired in 1959, with a total of 24 years. Said he felt the Army treated a country boy who never completed high school (got a GED while in the Army) very well.
The American officers who were stationed in my family's house after the war once asked "who's the guy on this picture?" My great-grandmother said it was her grandfather. It was a picture of Frederick the Great.
After the 1980 military coup in Turkey, police came into an apartment and saw a picture of a bearded man on a wall. The tenant of the apartment was asked who it was and he said it was his grandfather. In fact it was Karl Marx but the police did not know that.
@@generalhyde007 Frederick the Great didn't have any descendants. The lady was mocking the American officers and their lack of general culture; they couldn't even recognize Frederick the Great.
Pershing- “West Point isn’t behind the times” Also Pershing- Couldn’t catch Pancho Villa Marshall- “Its outdated” Also Marshall- Architect of Victory in WWII
Can you do a special about raising an army ? The processes of going from a peace time army of a few tens of thousands to a world spanning army of millions ?
That would be a great episode especially if they could contrast the different nations scaling up. The Soviet Union, the US and China all had to scale up vast populations for the war and it would be pretty fascinating to see the differences and similarities between them.
America's scaling up unintentionally started in the 1930s with the Civilian Conservation Corps. The Army provided cadre to run the program, and participants learned about following instructions, eating and living in military conditions. Some participants even learned Morse Code and radio operations at night.
@@ethank5059 China was actually in a slightly different boat. China, since the 1911 revolution, had had way too many troops under arms. Part of the Warlord era of the 1920's was that there were so many small armies that were not loyal to the center and had vastly varied training. The big project of KMT in the 1920's and 1930's was bringing these troops under central government control and demobilizing many of them.
The great depression created the right circumstances. Millions of unemployed men in poverty with no safety net benefits. A war came. Millions of unemployed could be moved into factories without protests, because there was no factory owners who lost their workers over to the state armaments industry when the government could hire unemployed instead. And the Americans did not demand higher wages to change from a good job in the private sector to work for the government - because they were unemployed and starving and happy to get any stable job they could get. And joining the military was the same situation. The government did not have to compete with the private sector for workers, as it normally would have if there had been peace and low unemployment. But now could the military suck of millions of men without starving the private sector from workers. And neither did the standard of living for the people who were moved over to wear uniform or making that uniform in a factory. On the contrary. Now did unemployed people get a stable income so they no longer had to feel hungry and wonder how they could afford to pay their bills. The army could therefore expand with millions of men without much protests from the public or powerful rich people. Unused car factories that had been closed down during the depression due to lack of consumer demand, could now quickly be turned into factories for making tanks, jeeps, and trucks. America had been attacked on their own soil by Asians. So now was America angry and going to teach Japan a lesson, and Germany's declaration was a stab in the back on a country which had just been attacked. Germany and Japan was trying to take over the world, and America was defending itself, and its ally Britain and was going to liberate Europe from German occupation. So many Americans also felt a strong patriotic duty to unselfishly serve their country and join together in a dark time. Before the war had America been a segregated country - segregation between rich and poor, black and white, and between state border lines, and according to which country their ancestors came from. But under and after the war had everyone became Americans first. Americans grow tired of rationing and started to hate it after a few years. But it had positive effects. It prevented people from buying stuff and wasting their money. So soldiers and factory workers were forced to save the money they earned. And when the war was over had Americans built up huge savings. And the damage that the great depression had caused American households was repaired. The huge war time demand had created full employment and given large corporate profits for American firms. The economy was rolling full speed, and Americans was eager to spend money again after years of waiting to do so, after being prevented from it by all rationing... so the consumer demand after the war was huge, and created huge profits for the private sector and many jobs after the war. America now had a skilled work force after the war, since so many tanks and planes had been built. And now civilian products were made instead. And Europe needed to import things to repair their countries.
Hey Indie, your team should really do another episode or another Out of the Foxhole about Texas A&M and it’s Corps of Cadets. During the war it would produce 14,123 officers, more that West Point and Annapolis combined. It would also have 7 Medals of Honor recipients, as well as the schooling for James Earl Rudder one of the founding members of the U.S. Army Rangers and the commanding office that lead the attack at Pointe du Hoc during D-day.
Speaking of which, I saw a few years back there was a ceremony/light show in Bastogne, BE highlighting Texas A&M's contribution to the Battle of the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge).
All of this is true. Texas A&M was one of 6 senior military colleges the US had, and there was a set of traditions around preference for officers from those schools (VMI was another).
My grandfather was a US Naval Academy graduate of the Class of 1918 (who were hastily graduated in June 1917 after the U.S. had entered WWI that April). On the topic of education, I'd like to mention that the U.S. Navy in the 1920's sent a certain number of junior officers every year for post-graduate education to M.I.T. for aeronautical engineering and to Harvard for radio engineering (like my grandfather). These officers would then apply their graduate education and experiences in the fleet to tackling technical challenges that the Navy faced as it modernized its fleet during the Inter-War period.
the academies' student bodies populations are set by congress; by federal law. they are national public schools and draw their students from all states & territories (ensured by requiring congressional, presidential, or VP appointments ... besides good grades, etc)
@@rickmazzoli4116 Served 24 years as a Regular Army Officer, so knew that. Was pointing out that while the Academies have their purpose, almost all of our officers are not from those institutions.
@@yzfool6639 George C. Marshall was not a West Point Graduate, so not sure wha you point is, if you have one. The Father of American Military Logistics: not an Academy Graduate. The Father of American Missile Development, not an Academy graduate, the list goes on and on. The Academies have proven their worth, but the vast majority of America’s military in WW2, not Academy Graduates, and that means most companies, most battalions, most divisions, most ships, most submarines, most pilots, .......
I think it is important to note that these videos are timeless. 10 yrs from now someone will discover this video, as people are discovering all your work with the Great War. They create perspective that will influence future generations. Which will inspire them to DIG DEEPER. To all who have read this comment, I wish you the very best regards,
My father was a graduate of the University of Michigan who graduated and then joined the Essex and Kents Scottish in Essex/ Windsor Ontario right after graduation. He ended up going through the “90 day wonder program“ in Brockville Ontario and became an officer in the Royal Canadian engineers. [I still have a framed copy of his officers Commission which gloriously starts off with “his Majesty the King King George the fifth, emperor of India, defender of the Faith etc. etc.] he served in Normandy and the Netherlands finishing the war as a captain. Will Time Ghost be covering how the other allied nations increased their officer corps?
My dad was at WWII Lt in the Pacific. The west pointers didn't last long. They were too proud of their bars. The bars on the helmet made a great target.
Since you mentioned the isolation of West Pointers from normal soldiers, it would be worthwhile to discuss the history of summer cruises in the Naval Academy. The middies are taught by repeated example about the relative skills of senior noncoms vs their middie selves.
LOL, yes! I got stuck, er, had the priveledge of being a "running mate" to a few Middies. Most were smart and eager, very aware of their own ignorance. A couple seemed a bit priveledged, but were smart enough to get over it. As disruptive as it can be, Summer cruises, in my opinion, are an invaluable training tool.
The Armed Forces of the USA were in WW2 and continue to be until this time led, supported, and molded by the vast numbers of officers that came out of the Reserve Officer Traing Corps (ROTC) and Officer Candidate School (OCS) programs. Enlisted soldiers, including myself for 33 years, were much more likely to report to Officers who had received their commissions from those programs, then those that had attended a service academy. If the majority of Full Colonels and General Officers, grades O-6 to 0-10 came out of West Point, Annapolis, and after WW2 in the Air Force Academy, then it must be said that a great majority of the Company and Field grade Officers O-1 -to O-5 had been trained through ROTC and OCS, and were more likely to be directly involved in combat, while leading platoons, companies, and battalions of enlisted soldiers and officers.
Lived in Annapolis in the 70s, and twice wrecked my motorcycle on the cobblestone streets around the Naval Academy wall. Both times (wet cobblestone, the bike slips out from under you) a couple of midshipmen ran and help me pick it up, and offered to call a medic. Nice guys...
I think taking a look at the other military academies or major colleges with military programs would've been interesting, such as the Citadel in South Carolina, the Virginia Military Institute, Texas A&M (who contributed the most officers to the war), Virginia Tech, and Norwich.
The Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas, Texas A&M, produced more officers than West Point and Annapolis combined. It has always been a military school and still produces more officers than the other Senior Military Schools.
As a USMA 2002 grad I can say that the monastic lifestyle and work load were still going strong. A fantastic unparalleled educational experience that sets the standard for officer training in the US Army.
spartacus-educational.com/RUSred.htm Includes photo of instructor teaching Red Army troops about the Maxim machine-gun. Photo was probably taken any time between 1938 and 1942.
Yes, please do more of these!! @3:30 I think you mean "unofficial" rather than "unspoken"? - a small malapropism on an incredibly informative and interesting episode!
The equality of all cadets at West Point that you mentioned, while generally true, did not extend to the first black cadets, one of whom was future General Benjamin O Davis, the commanding officer of the 99th Pursuit Squadron "Tuskegee Airmen" in WWII. (The newest barracks at West Point is named after him, rather ironically looming over Lee barracks) I'm not sure if you've done a video on him or them yet, but I'm sure you will.
I’d love to see an episode on French officer training, and how that training prepared them for their ineptitude in the Battle of France. My understanding is that the French soldiers in general were equal to anybody, but their leadership failed them. What level of leadership failed? Only the higher levels, or mid and small unit levels, too? And certainly part of the leadership that failed them goes above their officers to the government officials who controlled the purse strings, etc. A question I have that I do not know the answer to is; was the failure of French leadership during the Battle of France generally universal, or did it come from a few key individuals who either held influential positions of power, or were just unfortunately distributed in catastrophically key positions and locations? My understanding is that the failure in French leader ship precedes the events of the summer of 1940 by many years, and includes poorly made war plans and poorly planned procurement of modern arms. The increased enlightenment that your research and a special on this subject could provide would be very interesting and educational.
The Chieftain has a good episode about the French armour development between the wars and talking doctine. The French government feared the French army more than the German Army is rather alarming.
They mentioned this briefly in a previous episode that one of the biggest failings of the French army was the lack of flexibility given to the lower level officers to take initiative and exploit enemy weaknesses while the German officers were given far more flexibility to operate independently from high command. I'd personally call this a failing of high command because low level officers don't exactly write their own training and doctrine but the lower level officers for Germany were clearly better suited for actual combat than the French. They begin talking about this a little after the 9:00 minute mark of the video on the defeat of France. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--bhaZeJVZQA.html
@@ethank5059 Good point, but that's not all. The french plan for a potential war with Germany was extremely inflexible because the French went all-in on the Maginot line and the military alliance with Belgium (cooperating in order to hold river crossings, chokepoints etc). When the Belgians declared neutrality, the entire plan should have been cancelled and replaced. However they decided to go with it, even though they knew they could not hold Belgium in time in case Germany invaded. In other words they would not leave them to their fates, even if saving them was nearly impossible. Then there's general Charles Huntziger who managed to do everything wrong and literally allowed the Panzers' breakthrough at Sedan. To sum up, it was the high command that failed.
Interesting post. My own grandfather graduated West Point in the "War Emergency" class of 1918 - only two years into the normally four year program. They were recalled as 'student officers,' and nominally considered class of 1920. He served 17 years as a lieutenant and retired a Major General. With that said, the larger point about US officer training is what happens after pre-commissioning training. It could be argued that from an American perspective, World War II was won in the classrooms of Ft. Benning (Infantry Officer training), Ft. Leavenworth (the Command & General Staff College), and the War College. Same is true for the US Navy; War Plan Orange was almost entirely refined at the Naval War College during the interwar years. So apart from commissioning a cadre of officers, those officers then developed their skills and achieved a commonality of purpose, at the staff schools. And of course, George C. Marshall famously selected nearly all the Army and Army Group commanders from the cadre that served with him at Ft. Benning.
Great episode! I have two brothers who went through Annapolis and served as officers, one in the US Naval surface fleet (gunnery officer, among other things), and one who went into the US Marines. I think the officer training, conduct, and experience in various militaries is quite important - especially today, when we compare conduct of field forces in combat in eastern Europe. Among many other things, I also watch various analysis by combat veterans of what we can see of the conduct of units in the field, particularly those of Russia - and I would love to see how the training and unit organizations are different.
In my opinion, an episode on not just other officer schools, but the NCO Corps and their training would be interesting, since they do not receive enough credit for how instrumental they were for a unit's effectiveness und morale. No officer, (speaking from personal experience) no matter how well trained he may be, is able to lead a platoon or company effectively, without a strong NCO Corps.
Academies, ROTC and even basic training just teach the basics and scratch the surface. To be good at being a leader in the military one must do. Those who don't teach.
It warmed my heart that y’all mentioned VMI a lot of history in Lexington va, and new market… George Marshal is highly underrated as a general…. Both got mentioned today so it’s a good episode!
I have heard from many of my friends who served in the Army that they vastly preferred officers (especially junior ones) trained at West Point to those who came up through ROTC or OCS. They were better schooled in the mantra "Mission, Men, Me", and were more diligent taking care of their troops.
The second world war was also notable in that the enormous need for capable officers meant that many non-academy men also received a chance of promotion to commissioned officer rank in the US Army. One such was my grandfather, who enlisted as a private in the great war, had risen to seargent by 1918, and eventually rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel, commanding a front-line AA batallion in the western theater from June 1944. He survived the war and retired a full colonel in the late 1940s.
George C. Marshall never went to West Point, he was a graduate of VMI. Not being a member of "The Club" meant that he wasn't beholden to West Point relationships and nepotism. After Kassreine he had no problem firing the peacetime officers for incompetence.
Looking forward to coverage of Sandhurst, Dartmouth, Saint-Cyr and Potsdam, as well as any others you choose to cover. I love these windows into the cohorts, because I feel like it helps explain some of the actions (and inaction) of various groups.
My Dad was drafted in 1942 and got a commission via OTC (90 Day Wonders). He served with the 343d Fighter Reconnaissance Squadron in England during WWll. He served in the USAF until 1970 retiring as an O5.
hey Indy, is there a possibility of the other 3 senior US military academies being in an episode? Texas A&M, VMI, and The Citadel all had important people graduate from them.
Some interesting things I found was West Point and Annapolis study battles throughout ww2. Such as the winter war and the battle of ratte road and Erwin Rommel's books of infantry tactics as well as 101st Airborne attack on brecourt manor. Overall pretty good video.
Two bits of trivia from a dirtbag midshipman: The summary of the founding of USNA is pretty good. But it leaves out the best part (that they usually don’t like to teach the mids at USNA). Part of the reason that they made a shoreside academy for midshipmen (vs training them on ships a la Master and Commander) was the USS Somers Mutiny. It’s a long story but basically a midshipman on that ship was accused of trying to start a mutiny and hung at sea. There is controversy as to if he actually was trying to start a mutiny or if he was actually trying to start a pirate themed frat (the dude was into pirates and had been in a frat in college). But either way, he was the son of the Secretary of War, so that obviously didn’t go over well. And so that’s part of what started the move towards shore based training. You also briefly mentioned West Point’s honor code. USNA had a similar ‘honor concept’ that was written by Ross Perot (yes that one) when he was a midshipman. Ok ok, some more: it is commonly said that you need a Senator or Congress to send you to the academy. But there are some other ways as well. If you are awarded a Metal of Honor, your kids don’t need a congressman. Bruce McCandless was awarded a MoH off of Guadalcanal, and his son Bruce McCandless II went to Annapolis. Bruce McCandless II became an astronaut, of which there is a famous picture of him space walking. ADM Kidd was killed on USS Arizona, and a week later his kid graduated from Annapolis. And Gen Eisenhower’s son graduated from West Point in June 6th 1944. His father was not in attendance.
The book "Command Culture" describes in detail the differences between German and American officer training programs and helps solve the riddle of the superb fighting qualities of the German army. Dupuys' book, "A Genius for War" describes the evolution of German training methods started under Scharnhorst which led to the battlefield superiority of the German army.
The 1951 Gary Cooper comedy "You're in the Navy Now" explores the difficulties of preparing citizen sailors to meet the needs of a rapidly expanding Navy. The 1956 Jeff Chandler movie "Away All Boats" deals with this same issue in a more serious (and sometimes comic) manner.
My dad was a WW2. He got thrown in the cooler for the claiming OCS (Officer Candidate School) stood for Ordinary Can of Shit. That was GI humor for 90 day wonders.
That was really cool! Thank you. I love how these special episodes go into details that I hadn't thought of before. I can't wait to see the episodes on the other countries military schools!
American Army Officer qualifications 1942: *needs the body of Superman, brain of Einstein, and morals of Mr. Rogers* American Army Officer qualifications 1945: be relatively alive and humanoid looking after the battalion just suffered a 75% causality rate and re-enforcements ain’t coming for weeks.
@@3dcomrade By 1945 a lot of German officer training schools were closed down and their cadets turned into infantry and handed weapons. They were often quite good as soldiers - they were already pre-selected, for one thing.
In 1967 as the Viet Nam war was building up, the U.S. Air Force Officer Training School at San Antonio, Texas was turning out about 900 shavetails every six weeks for an all-time-high total of 7,894 for that year--myself among them [1]. Combined with numerous ROTC programs across the country, the total obviously dwarfed the output of the Air Force Academy. The AF was "officer-heavy" because you had to be commissioned to be a pilot or navigator--a tradition that most other countries have not found it necessary to emulate. Later on I ran into AF Academy graduates, as well as a few West Pointers, Coast Guard Academy types, and even a Marine or two who had somehow transitioned into the AF. Nowadays, OTS is much smaller and has relocated to Montgomery, Alabama. 1. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Officer_Training_School
Most great American generals served and were mentored by General “Black Jack” Pershing during WWI. These include Patton, Eisenhower, McArthur, George C. Marshall, and Omar Bradley For that reason, he’s extremely under rated in American history in my opinion. Not to mention he charges up San Juan Hill next to Teddy Roosevelt, and commanded the expedition sought out Pancho Villa
Not only should you do the mentioned episode(s) on other nations Military Academies and how their professional officer corps was trained, but also, as you alluded to in this episode, talk about how the vast bulk of Officers were trained during wartime. Specifically, I'm referring to OCS, ROTC and the other nation equivalents.
I really enjoyed this. I thought I had no particular interest in the US military system but this was engaging and explained a lot of things that filled in some blanks in my understanding of the currently most powerful military on the planet. Cheers.
I'd love to see some episodes about the lives of civilians during the war, both on the homefront and under Nazi, Italian/ Japanese rule. It could be a whole series. Covering the Balkans and the partisan activity would be interesting, also Soviet partisans, and the surprisingly large use of calvary on the Eastern Front. I'm also very curious what the Allies did right to avoid partisan activity by the defeated Axis countries.
a comparison video about 2 different officer training would be nice, an example would be like: comparing the German officer training and the Soviet officer training how do they compare? what tactics were thought there and such
I recently moved pretty close to Annapolis, and sometimes I go there to see the beautiful view of the bay/harbor. I often see guys walking around in navy uniforms. I have no idea how harsh a learning environment it is to be a young cadet/whatever it's called in the navy, but it's a cool town.
not one word about OCS. This was where most of the officers came form and still do today. I am VN Vet In my 2yr 9mo 5d in army of all the officers I encountered under 05 only 2 went to West Point. As for those 05 & 06 only 5 went to West Point. I was a S-3, S-2 Cherk and did some time In S-1 as well. Finished by time in Army as Supply Sgt, 2 Supply Cherk's, &7, a supply driver and ass armor. Ya I was the only person in Supply for 4 months for Co B, 101st Aviation Bn. Now back to officers. B/c the the jobs I filled (Germany 8th Div Support Com S-3) I came in contact with a lot of officers. Many more then a ground pounder & I had access to their 201 files so I know where they all came form. When in Germany anything the div did went through my typewriter. This gave me good working knowledge of most every officer in the 8th Div. The Military Academies are not the major source for officer in the US military now nor have they been since at least 1940. So Indy go back a do a little on OCS this is where the best officer come form IMHO.
Love this one. Wanted to ask for germany and GB but it is not needed as it seems. I have learned not only from books but also from personal experience how big the impact of good or bad leadership is in the military and business. Not unheard of that organisations that failed suddenly excelled under new leadership. The impact of leadership can not be rated high enough. As General Schwarzkopf said: An army is not made of tanks and planes. You need men to run them. And you need these men to trust and respect you. To get people to trust and respect you in a way they will follow you into enemy fire is no small feat.
Correction. Many ways to receive an appointment to the military academies. Congressional is one but there is Presidential and Vice presidential. And each service receives appointments. This info s how my father went to West Point.
I'd like to see a run down on the US and allied nation courses of schools for officers that were not a part of the Academies. in other words Officer Cadet schools that took commended enlistment men.
Please make more like this video. It's important to understand and knowing not only the logisticks of an army but also about the manpower and the leaders. In many cases you can "decode" triumphs or big failures in battles and war in general if you know about the people who fought them. One suggestion maybe is to make more videos about some special units during ww2 and their training.
I hope you guys do one for Germamy. I read in a series of book (published by Time Warner, I think) that officers had to do mental exercises such as taking out items from a ruck sack while standing on a beam, remember each items, and place back in the right order. Officers also practiced leading cardboard tanks (manned by soldiers inside) in war games, leading to some urban legend of such tanks used in the polish campaign.
I read somewhere that trainee Waffen-SS officers had to place a primed stick grenade on top of their helmets and then stand at attention until it exploded. Presumably the blast would go upwards rather than down but it seems like a needlessly dangerous test and the account may be untrue or at least exaggerated.
Just got accepted to West Point a couple weeks ago, and waiting on word from Annapolis, so this is a really interesting history lesson for me! Keep up the good work with your videos!
The US Army War College at Carlisle PA, is one of the most interesting places that I have visited. The study of war is intense there and the materials they have in their library is amazing to say the least. I highly recommend a tour if you can, they have lecturers often from all over the planet. Thanks for the great content.
Of course you should also talk about basic officer training in other countries but you should also talk about the military professional schools. In the U.S schools like the Command General Staff College, the War College and especially the Industrial War College did much to prepare the country for war.
The British Army reformed officer recruitment in WW2 in an attempt to make it less dependent on social background. Officer cadets wore a band of white cloth or tape on their headgear. Peter Ustinov tried but failed to become an officer in the British Army and wrote rather scathingly about the process in his autobiography "Dear Me".
@@craigclemens986 Actually, no - he was a private soldier in the British Army. This caused problems in his film work during the war - for example an assistant cameraman or make-up artist might be an army officer - the normal hierarchy of films was not in line with military ranks. Ustinov was made a batman or military servant to David Niven, who was a lieutenant-colonel - this was the only way they could associate in military terms otherwise.
He was a corporal at times commanding the first pill box facing France at Dover Castle in an interview with Michael Parkinson he explained because the men stationed there were from all over eastern Europe the language of command was German!
@@robertskrzynski2768 In his autobiography he mentions manning a guard post on the coast. The only other soldiers were a Polish Jewish refugee who spoke no English, and a Yorkshireman who was a farmer in civilian life. Ustinov was assigned to the Jew because he could speak German and this was close enough to the latter's Yiddish to make communication possible.
I'd also love to see the officer education of other nations, since the substantial differences in doctrine sometimes also hail from different perspectives on the qualities that make a good officer. I think it would be especially interesting for nations which already fought quite a lengthy war like Japan, but also the nations that capitulated early like France and Poland, who later had substantial armies in exile. Its easy to forget that fourth largest allied army by the end of the war were the Polish-in-Exile.
The German Army tradition is for all men to attend the same basic training, but those who appear to be officer material are identified while at basic. After basic, they are then sent to a sort of officer candidate school. That means every soldier and officer went through the very same basic training. In the American and British systems, the split happens even before basic training.
Do you have a source for the Polish in Exile as the fourth largest allied army? Given the size of the British, US, Soviet Union and Chinese forces it's kind of hard to believe Poland's army in exile was larger than any of them. Maybe the fourth largest in Europe but not the fourth largest overall?
@@ethank5059 Yes, exactly like that. I'm also not sure if the Chinese were technically part of the Allies or just a Co-Belligerent, like Finland was. Those were never part of the Axis, even though they fought with the Germans against the Soviets in the Continuationwar.
@@amerigo88 That same manner is used in FDF as well. Of course it gets its recruits from conscription (quite short) so pool of recruits is diverse. I think USMC uses similar training regime in which all troops get same basic training.
@@hendrikgreiner8449 China was officially a member of the allies and declared war on Germany after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Prior to 1941 they weren't really a member of the allies but afterwards they absolutely were. China's role as one of the four major allied powers is the reason they are on the UN Security Council today.
Whatever other parts of the curriculum were antiquated, the emphasis on mathematics at West Point and Annapolis was not. "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics" is true for any land commander, and large scale logistics needs lots of serious math. And for a naval officer mathematics was essential for navigation, whether under sail or steam.
i cant wait to see the other nations specifically the axis who to my understanding had put more emphasis on strategy and tactics then technical training which i think is pretty apparent in the field. also to my understanding you can also get into west point if you do 2 years at a junior academy first. we had a company of older kids at military school that seemed like most were trying to go in that direction.
Pershing’s inflexibility on tactics etc had to be forcibly re-educated in France, 1917, where the British & French had to train Americans in the realities of trench warfare.
The ramp up for officers for the first world war also had seen many universities begin to create officer training programs. This diversity in commissioning source is important. As for ranks of general being more so graduates of West Point, well, above the rank of Lt.Col in the Army, those positions become more political than before. West Point historically has the political edge from appointees.
While I was seldom overly impressed with the officers I served under, I served with a couple of West Point cadets and I have to say, they certainly impressed me.
