The way the last few seasons went was the peak of "not a good look" and you might think their successor would do whatever they could to avoid comparisons between then being drawn.
@@colbyadamski8139 Oh I will definitely wait until next season. It doesn't seem like the first battle she takes part in happens this season. I just find it an odd choice to not introduce her with the other dragon seeds.
@@Nina-uy1eo no frrrr and I already hate how in Fire and Blood they say she was able to claim her dragon with sheep as if being nice to a dragon just means they’ll accept you, way to diminish her character 🤦🏾♀️
I think removing nettles is a huge mistake. She is a great example of how the stereotypical targeryians aren't the only ones with the potential for dragon riding. I think her being the daughter of a dragonseed or something would be amazing.
I don't want to believe it but Laenas line "there is more than one way to claim a dragon" to raena in s1e5 or 6 sends like it might come back around and definitely gave me sheepsteeler vibes the first time I heard it
Jaehaerys had a rebellious daughter named Saerah, who was kinda promiscuous. Who went to Essos, had many children from many men. They would be dragon seeds as well.
She wasn't just "rebellious" she was... well she was fucking psychotic. Unironically compared herself to Maegor *in front of her father* as an excuse to sleep with multiple men... You know the same Maegor that butchered Jaehaerys little brother and left his carcass to rot outside the Red Keep, in hopes that he could kidnap and rape Jaehaerys's mom when she came back for her sons dead body? She then ran away and unironically worked as a Lyseni whore for the rest of her days, she didn't even show up for her mothers funeral. "They turned our daughter into a whore." -Alysanne cried. "She was always a whore." - Jaehaerys coldly responded.
Sadly... Everything points to it being true, by all appearances.. Its really quite the nonsensical decision, nothing is gained by it and quite a few things are harmed
Like they care. All they see is their skin color, so they think they can just swap one out for the other. The thing that sucks is that nettles is a canonically POC character while Rhaena is canonically white and pure Valyrian looking, they just decided to race swap a character and then remove the only actual black character which is offensive. I suspect there’s some motivation to this as well to not make daemon or Rhaenyra look bad. Also because nettles undermines Targaryen supremacy propaganda by having no dragon blood and yet being able to tame and ride a dragon. The show panders to Targaryen supremacists and lovers, it’s just fanservice for folks that loved Dany and the dragons.
@@TheHellyeahmenum that’s exactly the point. they SHOULD see color and inclusion is NOT diversity. nettles is important period u guys are so weird and racist if u think blk characters can be interchangeable even if they are completely different personalities…
As someone who is a writer, it must be frustrating to see any character get cut in any adaptation. But cutting an actual legit important character is a whole other level of terrible. D & D did it in GoT & it screwed up the whole Dorne plot the last few seasons. & Messed up some of Bran & Dany's arcs. Doing it in HotD would be even worse.
@@mr.fettesq.7705 Firstly. Your response already proved your ignorance. Secondly, if you're not an author best to be quiet on what I said because you clearly are clueless.
One of the insults hurled at Rhaenyra is that she is "Maegor with teats." The White Worm whispering in her ear that Daemon is unfaithful then mirrors Tyanna of the Tower (another foreign-born paramour) doing the same with Maegor. Jealousy seems to be one of the motivating factors for both Mysaria and Tyanna to whisper these rumors. We lose out on all that pettiness, spite, jealousy and backstabbery if they cut Nettles and replace her with Daemon's own daughter. Then it just becomes dragon roadtrip with Dad.
Yes Tim I agree with that entirely. The way her and Daemon's marriage begins to splinter is crucial to the tone and ending of the story. Remove her, and you have to shoehorn in some alternate ending, and we know how *that* can go, to our sorrow.
But other accounts say Rhaenyra lost her lavish after Visenyas birth. She granted Daemon permission to sleep with Mysaria and other women. But all of a sudden that’s undo when he sleeps with nettles? It all depends on whose account you listen to. Did daemon sleep with nettles or was she like a daughter to him? The plot still works as Rhaenyra puts a bounty on Addam Velaryon. She goes mad. Daemon still dies with Aemond.
@@joshuaadams6565 It's to show Rhaenyra's hypocrisy. As Dave pointed out in the video, Rhaenyra states how "obvious" it is that a bastard girl like her couldn't be a true dragon rider, even though her own sons are bastards who lack "traditional" Valyrian features, yet still ride dragons. Like others have been saying, removing Nettles and the baggage associated with her relationship with Daemon (whether romantic or platonic) downplays Rhaenyra's more vile traits. The writers shouldn't be afraid to frame her in a bad light the way they are with Aegon II and Daemon. Equal rights AND equal lefts or however you wanna phrase it. Girl Bosses AND Girl Trainwrecks. It also seems incredibly disrespectful to swap out one POC character's story with another, as if they are interchangeable, while also casting the other Dragon Seeds, AND minor of minor characters like Silver Denys, AND two separate actors for Sers Erryk and Arryk, AND creating whole cloth new characters like Cooper Penny, Larys Strong's Fireflies and the Madam at the brothel that Aemond sees.
That moment when Sheepstealer was claimed by Nettles by being the only person not angry at Sheepstealer for stealing sheep. Sheepstealer was really just a sweetheart who thought "Finally someone gets me" lol.
Unfortunately George seems to have kinda confirmed that she’s been cut since he complained about the show runners ruining his story and about dragons not being where they should be (name dropping the vale specifically, where baela is)
@@bloodravenn8305 and Olivia talked about him recently, she said something like "and i also have another son apparently, called Daeron, he doesn't appear it, but he is mentioned"
I feel the opposite. Daeron is the one character you probably can cut without effecting the story too much. Nettles on the other hand is central to the conflict between daemon and rhaenyra.
I dont see how you can understand the full story of FAB and not have her. I totally agree she is a crucial person and is also a BIG part of several main character's storylines. I'll keep this spoiler free but suffice to say, not having her is like leaving JonCon or someone out. I guess they could roll her into a generic "dragonseed" character but why would they let themselves down like that. She's too good a character
@@Darkness-ie2yl I don't have time to type out all the speculations and reasoning for or against her being cast. Long story short, some people think it would have been announced already, or has been combined into one of Daemon's side kids, while others, myself included (no spoilers please) think she will simply be a introduced later on.
Honestly Nettles really isn't necessary. Which is why she's probably ly not there. She can just as easily be left out. Her entire storyline is extra fluff.
@@mr.fettesq.7705 They could have just as readily included her and I say that as a person who likes Rhaena enough for her to fill in for Nettles. Ultimately, I view the choice as a sign of the direction HOTD will take when it ends. Several of the most essential character's development, motivations and emotional states hinge greatly on Nettle' role. As such, I submit that the should would have been much better served by having her
I like the idea of Nettles not having a single drop of Valyrian blood in her, and I think that wouldn't necessarily stop her from having a true dragon bond. The way I see it, all the Valyrian blood magic and reptilian eugenics-incest is just a way to facilitate the incredibly difficult warging between a human and a dragon (and I do think they're doing some level of warging when they ride a dragon), not necessarily a requirement for it to happen. Nettles instead used "proper" domestication techniques, and this allowed her to get the bond in a natural fashion, as opposed to the artificial and "forced" Valyrian way. This would not even invalidate the Valyrian method existing, as bonding in this way may be a one in a million thing (and possibly require an incredible amount of warging talent) instead of the much more effective way the Valyrians do it.
I hope they keep her in. She literally my favorite. Im hoping they just use season 2 as an introduction to her to get to be a possible favorite for the audience and gaining sheep stealer trust throught season two until the last episode maybe.
@@misti-step Sheepstealer is directly stated to hunt near the Wendwater in the books, a river in the Stormlands near Kingslanding. The outermost area of the Vale, near the Eyrie, are equidistant from Dragonstone as the Wendwater is, if not closer. They could've easy changed his hunting grounds to that area for the story to work. Dragonstone isnt described as abundant in resources, dragons need to eat. And with all the talk of Vale sheep in S1, why not?
Yeah I think it's true, too. Think about the foreshadowing of Laena telling her she'll need to claim a dragon if she wants to be a dragon rider. Of all people, I wish they had picked someone else because not only does this take away from nettles and her story, but it takes away from Rhaenas story. In tbe books, she is able to hatch morning, and as we've learned, very few people have this ability, and on top of that, she and Mourning survive this war. Combining the two takes away from both of their stories.
David, you are one of a kind. I follow a pretty large lot of GOT youtubers, but your passion and understanding of the ASOIAF universe is unparalleled. I absolutely love your takes, your way of talking is so enjoyable to listen to, not to mention your awesome approach to ads, as well as the symbolism filled lives that are sooo entertaining! Keep doing whatever you are doing, your channel is pure gold for us ASOIAF simps ❤
Yeah.. Reina's mother on the other hand... I could have seen that badass slitting a sheep's throat when she went looking for Nanna Vhegar!!! At least the show version of her.
There may be a difference between “bonded” and “trained”. Nettles may have trained the dragon and thennnnn bonded with the dragon. It’s all so interesting. I hope they surprise us and keep Nettles!
I feel like the nettles characterization has been split between rhaena and alyn, since from what we’ve seen alyn doesn’t have any of the traditional targ features in the show yet seasmoke is following him around
Sadly, I think you're right about that. Daemon is going to make Alyn his loveinterest then... still got my fingers crossed for cliffhanger-nettles in season 3
I'll keep it 100. Anyone who wants to argue with me that Nettles is atop an 80 year old Dragon (Think around the size of Caraxes) as it is going tens of miles per hour, as the wind is whipping by her mouth and she's just screaming "LEFT, LEFT, DRAGONFIRE!" mid battle, you are welcome to do so. I will also remind you that they bolt the saddles onto the dragon's backs. You can see this on Syrax. If this hurt, minimum 20 guys would have died each time they made a saddle for Caraxes, there is no way Nettles is whipping an 80 year old dragon and it realistically hurts enough for the dragon to take notice. I think a much simpler response is that she formed a dragon bond with Sheepstealer and telepathically gives the dragon orders like most Targaryens do.
Great video and refresher on the role Nettles plays in the Dance. I'm bummed, though I do trust the writers to navigate this in a way that serves the story they're telling. My guess is that something had to give for efficiency's sake, rather than this being a malicious writing choice. Half a year ago, I was saying I hoped season 2 gave us more of Daemon and his daughters establishing an on-screen relationship, interacting more, and making up for some of the cut scenes in season 1 before his screen time shifted to bonding with Nettles, and I have a feeling the writers saw that narrative need/responsibility to serve Baela and Rhaena's relationship with Daemon (and serve those actors). Their solution, rightly or wrongly, might be this whole Nettles situation. That said, I really hope we get other dragonseeds and key characters to show the commoner POV if we've really lost Nettles, and I hope a good amount of Nettles shines through Rhaena without losing some of the things that made Rhaena (and Morning) such a ray of light at the end of the Dance.
33:39 There's some validity to this. The leaker, one of the people that runs the Wake the Dragon account, mentioned that she first got this information about a year ago and had sat on it because she wasn't sure it was true. Add in the fact that before Season 1 aired, it wasn't clear whether the show was going to be a success and that they initially gave a conservative estimate of about 3 seasons. So it's possible this may have been an early idea considered just in case the show wasn't given the chance to tell the story of the Dance in full. Of course, we'll just have to wait and see.
She would be a pretty large part of the story to cut. They may just wait until season 3. She needs time to feed those sheep to Sheep Stealer and gain the trust.
That's what I thought, too. I'll hold out hope but I'm like 90% sure they've given her whole story to Rhaena. That rumor started so early and now there are rumors of her claiming sheelstealer, too. And that shot of her in the trailer makes me think she's about to do it.
21:30 The effects of using a dragon in battle for the rider aren't usually mentioned in the books I don't think. It's one thing to slay an enemy with spear or lance, but burning them is an unique horror. I don't think Daemon had any problem with it but Nettles probably had not been in combat before the Dance. After seeing people burn alive due to her dragon, it makes so much sense she would be mortified by it. Yea you have to feel the worst for the random smallfolk getting incinerated but I also feel for Nettles in this case
They're combining characters just like DnD did, they are giving her dragon and some of her story probably to Rhaena because they can't have one of Daemon's girls doing "nothing" in the Vale while Baela is getting into dragon action, also modern audiences seem to hate none warrior women, it's also why Rhaenyra is getting some action aswell, can't have a woman sitting in her castle doing neddlework or something boring like that, she has to be a girlboss
Dammit… I was seriously hoping that when daddy Daemon sang that sweet Valyrian lullaby to Vermithor, it would be so that his baby girl Rhaena would end up being able to claim The Bronze Fury.😕
But can we talk about that shot of Rhaenyra and Vermithor? So badass, Vermithor has such a unique and badass grandaddy dragon vibe. Honestly I would have preferred they cut that traitorous twat over Nettles.
GRRM: “You won’t find dragons hunting the riverlands or the Reach or the Vale, or roaming the northlands or the mountains of Dorne.” The showrunners will do what they want 😅
and I think the showrunners should prioritize making a good show over keeping to book lore, but when they break lore, the burden is kind of on them to justify it with something good
Robert Baratheon ONLY got on the throne because he was part Targaryen. He was all killing Targs and he was part Targaryen himself the whole time. As were "his kids" (not). "He had the better claim" Ned says that in GOT.
No, that was just an excuse. The truth is he took it by conquest as he was the de facto leader of the rebellion. No one would ever dare to challenge him. Robert even said this when he described the rebellion. "I took the iron throne. I rule the seven kingdoms"
Hey David, I actually do know for sure that at some point they were casting nettles. I know someone who got very close to landing the role (but did not). Not sure how the actual season will end up, but they were definitely planning it at some point
oh okay that's super interesting. I wonder if there was a change. I do think it makes sense to delay her to season 3 I just don't know what this new rumor is about with sheep stealer
I hate it when they do shit like this; they made the Velaryons black, which is already non-canon, okay fine. Why exactly would they chose to remove Nettles? Nettles is objectively more important to the plot than the Velaryon's having a different skin-tone. And Nettles is *literally canonically black.* What the hell is going on over there in the writers room?
I haven't read the book, but I'm curious if the bastards had to prove Velaryon relationship and did anyone get pissed about their surprise stepkids/ half siblings? Since watching HOTD, I wondered why the trainers in the dragon pits can get close to the dragons as regular people, but no one else can?
Those dragon trainers really were one of the most interesting and well done parts of the show. My theory is that they are descended from a line of dragon trainers who came over from Valyria with Aenar and his family. Or perhaps they came over from Volantis or Lys more recently.
You are simply one of the best in the business when it comes to this. Please contact the folks at "Watch Dem Thrones" if you get a chance. I hope they have you on their stream because I know of folks there who also follow you.
Thank you , David Lightbringer ,for making this stream🙏 A character which I also find very very interesting and so important for both This story ,and furthermore too..🔥So this will really be a loss if they cut Nettles...I really hope that she will eventually turn up ..
There's no way Rhaenrya would turn on Rhaena like the other DragonSeeds, order her death, and cause her to flee. Rhaena is family, not Dragonseed. Rhaena can't take Nettle's place because it'd cause huge plot holes.
Yeah it would literally make no sense for them to go nettles storyline to Rhena . Now them cutting the entire thing vs giving away the storyline would make more sense .
The only way I {a humble fan} will accept this character swap is if we get several scenes of Rhaena earning Sheep Stealer’s trust by bringing him delicious, grade A sheep over a period of time. 😅
They better not cut Nettles. Maybe she's just not in Season 2. WTF are they doing with Seasmoke and Laenor??? People seem to think Seasmoke can't and or wouldn't fly to Essos to be with Laenor. So if it Season 2 Ep 3 Seasmoke is notably upset, did Laenor die?
Dave, I'm afraid that Nettles will _technically_ be in the show, in the same way that Mushroom is in the show. So it could be that the girl in the pic IS called Nettles, but that's where it ends :(((
I feel like they’re merging her with Rheana and they’re gonna have Rhaenyra get angry with her for abandoning her children in the Vale… or something stupid like that :(
Something you forgot, the dragon keepers feed the dragons and are allowed to get close, but they do not form a dragonbond with the dragons they feed regularly.
They already have to deal with sort of abruptly introducing other dragon seeds, and Nettles is just too random, too out of left field, for the TV show. I would have cut that character as well to make the show tighter.
The major issue with giving Rhaena sheeptealer instead is that then she somehow has to lose sheepstealer without a battle, and has to also spend all her time in the Vale and end up with morning at the end anyway. What is the point in giving her a dragon, doing nothing with it, having her lose it and then just giving her a new one instead? What a waste of everyone's time. They'd honestly be better served cutting out sheepstealer completely
Rhaena is not going to claim sheepstealer. She will try, but won't manage to, while nettles will do it and this will build up Rhaena's resentment even more. Also, not having a dragon is part of Rhaena's character.
@DavidLightbringer There is no evidence of that. Nettles' true nature is deliberately written as ambiguous. I say she's non-Valaryain because it fits with GRRM's themes better. He's very much critical of the concept of Targaryen Exceptionalism.
If they cut Nettles it would have a horrible butterfly effect on the whole story. I don't think the SR will do that. The only big mistake he made during last season was the change with Laenor Velaryon which has had ripple effects. Nettles is too important. I think she will observe a bunch of folks getting roasted by sheep stealer in S2 and decide to use a better strategy and come in clutch in S3.
Not me over here still secretly hoping (with my tinfoil hat on) that they hired girl nettles to play nettles on screen and everyone is just trolling us until it’s revealed 😂😂😂😂
As I've said on Twitter, (because yes I still call it that), I will wait to see if this really happens before I truly rant about it. But I can't help but already have a bad feeling . . . 😐
@@EarnestTargenfyre they no longer b9ther to even put silver wigs or cast 16 years old actors playing them look 30 almost like Corlys himself there were suppose to teens
@@queenxx1690 I was shocked when i saw Addam and Alyn. At least Addam looks decent but lmao they made Alyn look like a 35 year old random sailor lol! Excluding the fact that they have pale skin and silver fu*king hair!
You would think with today progressive media, Nettles would be the same to be cast. A multi diverse, dark skinned character of the feminine gender who can become a fearless leader in a misunderstood love triangle? Jackpot !
If Nettles is in fact cut I’m more disappointed that my personal head cannon isn’t confirmed like all us ASOIAF fans. I just need a scene in the show where it’s Nettles and Daemon being a wholesome father daughter relationship.
