WHERE'S THE TORQUE? HOW CAN I MAKE MORE LOW SPEED TORQUE? WHO MAKES THE BEST LOW-SPEED TORQUE CAM? 

BIG BLOCK SWAP THE WORLD

Absolutely love the video, I just put the 202/202 btr torque cam in my twin turbo lq4 with l92 intake and rec port. Such an amazing power curve! Love being able to make 600ft lbs at 2500rpm and carry it to 5500rpm while still making usable power all the way to 6k. Used the "china gt35 turbos" that measure out to a 62/62 on a t3 .82 a/r hot side. Used stock truck manifolds flipped upsidedown to create my own twin t3 setup. Added 50mm external wastegate provisions on each manifold. I highly recommend this cam for anybody that wants a noticeable bump in power from idle to rev limiter (around 6k) with a nice smooth idle and great vacuum. I'll say this again as I've said it before, adding stall speed doesn't "gain you low end torque" it just puts you in a better spot on the power curve right when you smash the gas pedal to the floor. This is great except for when your cruising highway in torque converter lock. If you have big tires, high gearing, or both then your probably at like 1800rpm to do 60-70mph and the stall doesn't help there cause your converter is locked. You will get a lot more downshifts and torque converter unlocks on the highway when you hit an incline or a head wind if you choose a cam that makes less low rpm torque on big tires, or even just heavy trucks with stock gearing. Higher stall speeds are very dramatic on highway when the converter has to unlock to get you up the inclines. Also, the more your converter has to come out of lockup, the hotter the trans temps get. A big cooler is a must with a stall upgrade obviously but if your ever gonna haul weight then keep your stock converter and either the torque cam, stage 1 truck cam, or stock cam. The guys that really want more low rpm power on the LS powered trucks follow this plan. BTR torque cam 862 or 706 heads (stock or ported) even if ya got a 6.0 or 6.2. bigger is always better! More compression is more power everywhere and is most noticeable on bottom. 99-06 truck intake manifold with the 3 bolt throttle body And long tube headers. That's it, that's gonna max out your low rpm power production. You are not gonna make a Dyno queen this way because the things that create such strong power/efficiency in your casual driving rpms are going to be a bit of a bottleneck above 5500rpm where the Dyno queens really shine. But it's worth it to build one of these if you like to have your fun, get great mileage, and be able to haul like a diesel. Hope a few people benefit from my rant 😜

The easiest way to make more torq down low is to install a stroker kit.

Bring the big stroke crank, long runner intake and a tight lsa

No replacement for displacement.

Like this guy cause he answers our questions we didnt know to ask 😂😂

I went from 205° water temp to 180° with a 160° Thermostat. Recommended back to stock gear ratio for my tire size, is 456, im running 488's even with the longer 1st gear of the 4l80e, its spicy. Tbss truck Norris 799's on a lq4. Its a bit much for cruising over 65 for long periods. It feels like 300hp in a 3000 lb car from a stop up to 80 mph. Which is darn cool in a lifted truck with 35's but really it needs 456's or 37" tires. This might help someone. 👍 I didn't know better and took someone's advice on a Form. Now I know and this is what happened.✌️

Supercharger that’s how you get low end torque 👌😄

Displacement.

The best way to gain torque on the low end, is a supercharger 😁 Edit: and a stroker kit

Low speed torque That's where it's at on the street drivability keep up the great work Richard

The "BEST" torque cam (for a 5.3L truck) would be LSA of 109-110, 210-228 duration @ .050, .550 to .600 lift (stock to mild porting (possibly more lift with aftermarket heads)) , intake valve closing @ 35 deg ABDC @ 0.050 lift (32-38 is ok), with 15-35 degree overlap @ 0.050 lift. But this is with 10:1 to 11:1 compression. (this is more important than cam to maximize torque) The higher the compression the more torque it will make and NO 11:1 doesn't mean you must run 92 octane or racing fuel. You just need a really good tuner to do AF and timing.... You also need a good exhaust, either the stock truck intake or TBSS intake (w/ a cold air and a free flowing air filter, stock is fine with a K&N or similar filter). a 160 deg thermostat, and I would do a dual pattern cam with a slight exhaust bias. ( a few extra degrees of duration on exhaust lobe ) at least if running stock to mild ported 706s or 799 heads. As the exhaust on these heads is right around 70-80% the flow of intake and needs a little more, some aftermarket heads don't need a split duration though.... This will get you in the 1.35 to 1.45 times the torque per cubic inch range, and thats right at maximum torque for a NA engine. (420-460 ft/lbs torque). Anyone saying they got over that is either lying or breaking the laws of physics.... 1.45 times is max for anything from stock to a full race NA engine the only difference is where that max torque is in the RPM range (the higher the RPM the higher the HP max is).....

I think that the best path to legitimately increase low end torque is add more displacement or add boost

Compression and ignition advance: as much initial advance and most aggressive curve you can run short of hard starting and/or pre-ignition when hot. Optimizing the latter (compared to stock advance) made the same difference as installing a 2500 stall convertor on a 302.

Build your engine with more cubes, more compression and small efficient ports if you want more low end.

Personally I blame John Woodworth!!

Thanks for crushing my dreams.

So basically what ur saying is lower the temps, get a converter, install long tube headers and using boost will increase low end torque. But what about other little things like port matching, removing the air silencers from the throttle body, using a high flow filter and modifying a kegger (to increase air flow and reduce volume but leaving the runners long)? Also what about longer valves and or higher ratio rockers?

You're a wealth of knowledge! Much love and respect, sir!

My harley picked up 50% tq gain at 2500 rpm with 75cc big bore kit and cam change.

People have to realize that using a 3000rpm stall converter on any LS engine even one with a stock camshaft will make it rev much faster and put the engine in a much better spot of the powerband to produce torque providing the gearing is right than a camshaft will at 3000rpm most camshafts will increase torque but most times it's 3500rpm and up even a mild truck Norris cam takes to about 3000rpm to match the stock 5.3 engines torque and the truck Norris cam makes less torque than the stock 5.3 from idle to about 2800rpm a 3000rpm stall converter fixes this problem

Sounds about right, especially OHC engines.

I'm running an older Crane Cam. 458 intake and 478 on exhaust. It's 284 duration with 112 lsa. It's the top of stage 1 cam. Smooth idle. Perfect street cam.

Richard, You showed perfectly that the Intake makes low end torque, Remember the Ford 460 boneyard motor? The flat cast iron stock intake made the best low end torque from 1500 to 3500. Ford did that deliberately to generate maximum low end torque to get their 5000lbs land yachts moving

Thank you for this. I know you get asked the same crap a lot!

Blower 🙌

Richard I know you do a lot of testing on the LS Engines and I’ve had several LS Engines and one LT Engine myself. I now have a Boosted Jeep, but I know their are a lot of younger guys with the 6.4L Hemi Charger/Challengers who are interested in finding the best Camshaft for the 6.4L platform. I believe many would be interested to see you test the new Comp HRT vs Comp 270 vs Cammotion Titan 1, etc. And as always appreciate your videos

Use a cam with a very early closing intake event (increase dynamic compression) and late opening exhaust event (hold the power stroke for longer). Caution use only 92 octane fuel or better to avoid pre-detention. Use small diameter headers 1 & 5/8 or 1 & 1/2. This was good for approx 25ft/lbs @ wheels at 1800rpm. This all comes at a cost to top end power. You will get less than the stock cam.

thank you for the explanation. i did think that the LSA had a lot to do with the TQ numbers (especially down low rpm). the "smaller" the lsa the better torque number was achieved. was i incorrect? hope yall have a great day !!

From my experience if you use an aftermarket more regressive profile that is single pattern slightly more durations at .050 and less adv duration than stock and generally will have more lift and more 0.200 duration. Then tighten up the lobe seperation as factory can be 116 to 120 back to around 110. Put it in at 108 intake centreline and if your lobes are reasonably aggressive it is possible to reduce the advertised duration overlap. This improving available torque below 2500 and increasing the overall available torque & hp. Though this will generally not be a shelf profile. Thoughts Richard?

We all know that if yall want low rpm torque, you need a big block motor. More displacement is more bottom end torque. Other than using noz.

Makes perfect sense. I had Yukon 2009 with 5.3 and dod lifters failed twice. After 2nd time I changed cam out to a summit racing tourque cam and completely deleted dod crap. I thought they sent wrong cam as it towed way worse than stock cam at low rpms. From 2500 and up it was quicker but only if you manually shifted transmission. The shift points stock you'd never feel the extra power because just as it would start to really pick up it would shift. Of course if you kept rpms higher it towed better with summit cam but that's not where I get best mileage. Summit cam had noticeable lope but without tuning idled lower and stalled alot. I did send ecu out and had dod tuned out after first time it failed when I replaced lifter but 2nd time lifter on opposite side failed.

It's about time someone did a low r video.About 10 years late but better than never.I never understood why dynos don't read down low.

Buying a cam with a tighter LSA and advancing the cam are two things I would do searching for low speed TQ

I used to be focused on having good low RPM torque when I was in high school. Now, I look at the total package. A reasonable cam with a good choice of gears is a very effective setup. I had a young man come to my shop looking for a supercharger to put on his T56/Coyote swapped mustang that had 2.73 gears. I convinced him to do a 3.73 gearset and a truetrac instead. To this day, we agree a supercharger would have made that car worse. If you feel like you need more torque, it's possible that your setup is holding you back. I mean, yeah, supercharger will make that car faster, but right now with the heat extractor hood, AC delete, ABS delete, Tilton 7.25, custom hard lines, it's just straight-up NA perfection under that hood.

If only converter speed didn't come with heat. I know I know it's all comprises. Thanks as always.

A great tork combo rich is this 496 to 620 cubes. 268 dur cam. 8 71 Supercharger. Stock heads. Bloodviking

No replacement for displacement. A low stall converter is nice though. I've driven 2 vehicles I believe had one, a 2004 454 Chevy something HD, and a 2001 Kia Sportage 2.4. Actually, the 454 might not have been that low, it's been over 10 years since I drove that thing.

More air = more work able to be done. A cam shaft cannot increase ariflow over a certain point as airflow is limited by engine displacement. Think of an engine as nothing more than a big air pump and things will become a lot easier to comprehend. How to get a more powerful air pump? One way is to increase the displacement via increasing stroke. Take a 302 Ford and turn it into a 347. A 350 chevy and turn it into a 383. More displacement = a bigger air pump = more power. A second way is forced induction. More boost = a more efficient air pump = more power.Most modern vehicle manufacturers have to conform to fuel economy regulations and thus have turned to turbochargers as the way to increase low end power output. Tuned to spool up quick most of the ecoboost engines have peak torque output somewhere around 2000-3000 RPM which is ideal for a daily street driven vehicle. More boost = a more efficient air pump = more power. The third way is nitrous oxide. Adding compressed NO2 = injecting oxygen = more power. A high RPM stall converter doesn't increase torque down low but rather forces an engine run at a higher RPM before transferring engine output to the transmission. In this way off the line the engine is already running at 5000RPM before the car even moves. Great for drag racing but terrible for everything else. However, changing the gearing in the transmission and differential to a steeper ratio directly increases torque at the axles by whatever multiple gearing is installed. This is why light duty tucks come with low "creeper" gears combined with 4:10 or 4:56 rear end ratio and a low ratio transfer case. A small displacement engine can do a lot of work when the torque output from the engine is multiplied 100:1. Great for pulling logs out of the woods but terrible for drag racing. For drag racing combine both ideas. Use a high stall converter along with whatever steepest gear ratio and tire diameter combo which which will result in the car crossing the beams exactly at whatever max RPM of your engine is built to handle.

If low end torque is what you’re after then you’re looking for the forced induction section, not the cam aisle. 😉

I just did the Tsp chopacabra cam and ported heads on my work truck. I was really hoping that it would be better than it is. Do I make more power down low? Yes, but it's not game changing or really worth all the effort that I had to put in. It does do pretty good past 3k and pulls strong up to 6k but I rarely see those numbers in normal driving. This is the fist ls I've run, I usually have a tbi or vortec 350 and I'm a little disappointed to say the least. I'm thinking of maybe getting a slightly bigger converter when trans rebuild time comes next winter. Shorter gears are a possibility as well to go with it to get into the power curve a bit better. I also got to get the tune dialed in a bit better and work the shift points a bit better. It's got great pull in first but shifts out to second and lands at about 2250rpm 500rpm just short of where it really wakes up at 3k. From second to third is pretty nice and I usually pull it to about 4-5k. All in all, I'm happy I did it. Now I won't be feeling like I missed my chance to do it, the motor had to come out for a dead lifter and to be resealed anyway. The next one I'm doing is a 6.0 with a sloppy stage2 and a converter.

Everything is a compromise, and depends on the whole combination. For example, the Buick 350 made 400+ ft-lbs somewhere around 2500rpm, but there was no point in revving it beyond 4300. If you want that kind of torque in an LS, you've got to change a lot more than a cam.

I always felt that a lockup converter with a 3200ish stall would give you the streetability and still give a big launch off the line.

As a bolt-in I get what you are proving. A little compression bump with the TN cam will bring back the low numbers compared to stock. I realize piston to valve clearance becomes a problem.

Displacement or Forced induction. I'd love to see a comparison of equal piston diameter but change from inline 6 to V6 to V8. Maybe equal stroke and equal cam. See how much torque is made per cylinder.

Best Backyard Tuner Help on the Interwebs. While RIchard is not a backyard tuner, he takes junkyard dogs and flogs them on the dyno while sorting the best options. 100% the real deal.

Right on

If NA...more compression, more cubic inches, and intake manifold design are a few ways to gain low rpm torque.

No replacement for displacement! More cubes = more torque!

to generate lower RPM torque , you have to have a higher crankshaft stroke , chevy guys , need the early 2000`s 454 with the 4.25 stroke crankshaft , ford guys need the lunati 351w 4.250 stroke crankshaft , then use the correct duration camshaft , with a correctly CFM rated carb along with a correctly jetted carb

The biggest gains are boost, cubic inches or compression.

What about Rhodes lifters, on a modern cam? Cam timing will allow you to move the torque around a bit.

More low speed tq is easy....more compression. Realistically when you add a performance you should add compression anyway. Exhaust on some of these cams might change it some at low rpm.

I make 540tq by 3800 rpm with a stock s366sx on a stock 5.3l with 218/220 cam. Elgin 1838p. 14psi pump gas

Small turbo and limit rpm due the small turbo. Huge low rpm torque, but back pressure and charge temp issues if you allow it to rev.🤷‍♂️ No gen 3 rods though😂

Thank you Richard for choosing to go throught this topic of lower rpm torque! V8s' should always be able win Teslas in acceleration at the traffic lights. Watching the hp/torque curves, could it be said that the faster the engine likes to increase rpm(sharpness or sensitive for the throttle increase) the more torque it produce? If this were be true, then wouldn't making the rotational components as revolution easy as possible help to increase the torque production?

You mentioned that you could gain torque with a lower engine temperature. This made me think of a few noteworthy mentions. I would think that quite a few people wishing to increase torque would be choosing to modify their daily driver. That’s why these two considerations may be important. 1) Smoky Yunick stated that a hotter engine will resist wear more so than an engine running cooler temperatures. So engine temperatures could effect longevity. 2) I used to run cooler thermostats to pick up a little extra grunt. A fellow car guy shared with me that he had experimented with coolant temperature and determined that a hotter engine seemed to get better fuel economy. I never tested this theory with a carburetor but I have seen slightly better mpg on EFI engines with a 195 thermostat than with a 180.

Cubic inches, modest port and carb size.

Do the David Vizard thing and narrow the LSA. You did a video on that. I agree that you can only do so much. Why you didn't have much luck is there aren't many off-the-shelf cams made to take advantage of that. One that comes to mind that isn't ideal but proves the concept is the Summit 1785 (LSA=106). Vizard put out a video not long ago where he mentions a few others. He's not specifically looking to maximize low-end torque, it just works out that way. The Holy Grail is the most torque over the widest possible range of engine speeds.

Pretty much the only thing that will drastically change low speed torque iNA is more cubes.

No replacement for displacement when you need low end torque. Yea axle ratio helps but the saying still holds true.

Would VVT help broaden the torque curve? Helping the engine produce great torque down low and carrying the torque gains across the entire rev range?

One thing that we're overlooking is head flow gains. Better heads either by good porting or swap increase cylinder flow with any cam, which means good increases in the most "useable" rpm range. Good heads bring out the best of what a cam can do. Of course Richard is correct when just comparing CAMS. They're less $$ than heads. Eg: Richard did tests on a SBF pushrod 5.0 and cams helped but heads alone were good for nearly 80 HP aaaand lower rpm, before cam changes. HEADS!!!! IMO good exhaust, then head flow, then cams... IF you can afford it.

Torque is made by using the summit 8720 cam I found in one of your videos . I just installed the 4th one . {the part number suddenly gained R1 on the end}

Adding cylinder pressure is the best way to increase torque on a given engine right? Im at high elevation and i want to make more off-idle torque with my gen 1 350. Crane used to sell a cam with low duration and a 104 LSA. It closed the intake valve super early like 21 degrees ABDC to build cylinder pressure. I heard a few guys say it had stump pulling power off idle

If you want low SPEED torque, upgrade the converter, if you want low RPM torque, add a positive displacement supercharger. 😂

I'd like to see a stock vvt cam like in an LY6 vs a btr truck cam. Probably be difficult for you tho it seems your Dyno is set up for Holley efi. Would be interesting tho.

My recipe for tq Compression, displacement, shorty headers, best intake possible and almost any cam with under 210intake duration with a single pattern

I just want a cam that doesn't kill what Torque the 5.3 has from factory. But, gives me better HP on the High side. I think the Truck Norris NSR is the best I can go with.

The 210/218 cam on a 106 LSA would create more low end torque. That is dyno proven. Tighter LSA = higher cylinder pressure and more low speed torque.

I thought a tighter LSA such as 108 improved low end torgue while keeping good higher end power. You proved that another video. Vizards 128 formula works.

Want more torque??? Get a tunnel ram with a 2bbl on it with headers and duals. If thats not enough add gear and downshift.

@Richard Holdener I doubt any cam could improve low end torque over stock because OEM care about optimum daily driving so they’ve already picked the best cam for that. You should do a video on volumetric efficiency. That’s the key to this whole debate. Stock cams are already at peak volumetric efficiency up to 2500rpm or so. The power gains seen by after market cams come from longer intake valve events, which actually increase the volumetric efficiency at higher piston speeds, but almost always at the expense of low end torque. VVT does mitigate that to somewhat

I belive you've set the stage for David V cam formula to be tested.

Want big torque down low? Stroker crank or big block swap.

You CAN shift your torque curve by advancing the cam.

are there any aftermarket intake manifolds with the same runner lemgth as sbc tpi manifolds? Like other comments have said, nothing beats displacement for low speed torque. Taking this to an extreme just for torque, could a stroked 5.3 with 20 inch runner length and a 210° duration cam be the tow truck torque champion? Would a stock 8.1 with a similar cam and a performer manifold make more torque for less money? The people clamoring for off ldle torque typically want to haul 10000 lbs at freeway speeds, and aren't looking to go 8s in a vega. So the desire to get big block torque is typically best served (cost effectively) by doing EXACTLY WHAT RICHARD SAYS! 😮

I built a motor for a 90 Mustang for torque and here’s what I learned, it was a big mistake! Did it make loads of torque yes was the car a beats on the street no, spent more time spinning tires than accelerating. When i was 3rd gear going @40+ then romped on it was an absolute blast but for the street i learned having my torque peak around high 3000/4000 rpm was a faster car let car hook then came on strong and first gear wasn’t useless anymore. Strong down low torque sounds great but the practicality of it is not

Please do more LOW RPM TORQUE vids! :-))) 1500-4500.

You could also stroke it to gain toque down low with a lower lift cam but that cost more money. 💰💰💰💰

A longer stroke crank would be a better option for torque.

The Richie Holdener adjustable dual plenum ram intake should bump that weak ass torque curve right up.

The answer really is yes... in a scenario where your cam is so absurdly small for the motor, you can get substantially higher torque down low. Swap to a good cam on a tbi 454 and see what you get.

Roots blower. Increase only lift. LSA makes the curve rotate (Don't remember which way)

This test would be interesting on a chassis Dyno. Could really show potential loss.

Before you build your short block get data as in my next post. Software will pick your compression ratio based on fuel, combustion chamber, rod ratio, quench so you need to optimize the short block and gasket Now heads and manifold with plenty of velocity (no Cleveland Ford syndrome) I've filled in floor runners even used 30 degree seats with these short cam builds, you still want light valve train as that will help using milder profile and less spring any rod ratio can work but cam will be different work out how fast valves open or close with different ratios that said go as long as you can, pistons are lighter Disclaimer You can make similar hp with a no quench motor but it takes better gas Tight quench will allow more compression and less timing and fuel sensitivity so go tight quench if you can, if you can't or aren't blueprinting your short block include what you have in your inputs. Obviously if you are building a new short block for torque cubic inches make a big difference Horsepower is mostly head determined but we do not want a high rpm build here

Currently building a high compression 292 chevy inline six, to replace my 327 chevy v8. This is for a firewood truck. That freakishly long stroke, that's what increases low-end torque. Also going from 4:11gears to 4:56 gears.

It does help to begin with the right cylinder head design--large ports are going to create a lazy flow at low RPM, and if the air and fuel separate, then it won't matter how much CFM flows. Its quality versus quantity. And if there's large valves, they'll just get in the way of flow with a small lift RV cam. So how much air does an LS head move overall? I don't think it was known for small port volumes. The reverse pattern cam result was interesting, Jon Kaase in the August 2016 issue of Car Craft ran his P51 wedge heads against his Boss 429 heads on a 521 cid engine, and mentioned that an exhaust port might need less cam timing than the intake due to exhaust pressure inside the cylinder along with the push of the piston. but he's likely referring to performance across the RPM range, and obviously there was more cid there. Small displacement engines are going to show smaller gains due to changes, and at lower rpm there's always going to be less change as the ignition is firing fewer times per minute of testing. and maybe the LS is just too efficient to show gains, an early wedge might have different results. Lowering the engine temp would be an interesting test--at 130 degrees i'd think the engine isn't burning its fuel as well as it would at 180 degrees. meanwhile, my 1968 Olds 442 has a .490/260 split cam, but variable duration lifters. I can put the manual valve body THM400 into top gear, set the switch pitch torque converter to 1,800 rpm, and the 10:1 C headed 455 will pull from a dead start up to redline when she's been warmed up. A captive discharge ignition and a spreadbore Q jet helps out and gets 15 mpg on 93 octane. So this is a subject that interest me (for those who wonder, if i change the stall speed to 3,300 rpm and launch in 1st gear, then 0-60 mph is 5.5 seconds and I can hit 100 mph at the end of a quarter mile distance).

Thinking about replacing the worn out 302 in my 90 Crown Victoria. 351 at the very least, but then again as a full size daily driver, 460 would be even better for the purpose and power band. Then when you start looking at price, performance gain, and the fact the old iron head factory motors were built well for that low/mid power from the factory decades ago, and the limited gains that can be achieved in the power band of concern with modifications, I think just buying a cast iron factory rebuild would be almost as good as a blueprinted and built custom motor. Most mods really are to maximize HP and top end, at the end of the day. Good empirical data in your work, thank you.

PD blower for the win 🤷 lol. All the low end torque on demand

Cam likely not to make a big difference but intakes and headers sure can!

I would be willing to bet a “small” duration with tight LSA would produce substantially more torque from 3000-4500 than these larger wide lsa cams Ever tried something like 220-224 580-580 on a 108? Installed on a 104 ICL Should be right it the sweet spot for a 5.7

Roots blower. It'll make bottom end TQ any day 😁

The answer is because at low engine speed, even with a stock cam, you’re running close to 100% volumetric efficiency. Theres only so much air that can enter the cylinder, and the only way to get more power than that with an NA motor is with more rpm. Volumetric efficiency drops at high rpms especially with mild camshafts. And a good cam is essentially allowing higher volumetric efficiency at high rpms.

Three ways to gain torque off idle: Compression, compression, compression.....

Who holds the throttle wide open at 2000rpm? Downshift for BIG wheel torque gains, where it counts.

Richard, here in Australia a common term for an upgraded cam is ‘tow and go’ no idea what the profiles are but pretty much every place that sells them say the increase the torque. What you said makes sense so they must be a mildly wider profile?

I've come to the conclusion from looking at dyno graphs that the first part of the run isn't an actual representation of what's going on since there always is an immediate dip. drivability is probably a better Guage .

1 3/4” primaries, smaller heads (706), and compression, is about it.

Do you have a video or advice on how to budget modify a ‘94 Ford 5.8 EFI truck engine? I have BE s/w a d a Moates chip to update the tune, but looking for the best way to get more HP and more Low end torque.