ACL9000 don’t forget ramp or trailer then mechanical hoping it pass without extra cost and finally taxes. I just been through it and I wish I would saw your message before I bought a R3, because it’s important knowing about the extra money and insurances won’t give ya a break unless you have the course. Thanks.
Seriously this is the most informative and valuable motorcycle info source available anywhere. Thank you for all you do guys, can't wait for the chain lube video!
Agreed. The cycling community is all over this, but they don't have o-rings to deal with. Motorbike chains are higher tension so most cycle chain cleaning tools won't work. and unlike cycles. a jammed chain could send you down the road at horrifying speeds, so it more important to do a good job.
I cannot believe the amount of incredible preparation and forethought that went into this production. Your testing methodologies are simple, elegant and appropriate. Great job, Ryan!
Videos like this are incredible. In under 10 minutes Ryan: - Compared a multitude of chain cleaners using various tests - Demonstrated proper chain-cleaning methods - Gave a crash-course on the innerworkings of a chain - Kept us entertained
No more he say she say with cleaners and chemicals. Fortnine bringing objective science based tests. Game changer! *Adding Ipone to my shopping cart~ *Waiting for lube vid~
Great video, but one thing I feel should be mentioned: WD-40 (or "Water Displacement, 40th Formula") is not a lubricant, despite containing some (VERY thin) mineral oil. It is not a cleaner, though it contains some solvent. It is not a penetrating oil. No, as perhaps the most misused aerosol in everyone's toolbox, it is a crude rust inhibitor originally created for thin-walled missile fuel tanks. Please people, do not think your chain is cleaned and lubricated with WD-40 (or that it's doing much to free up rusty nuts). Use the right tool.
Interesting since I've used Motul products for years and had a chain last for 30k miles easily. I think the most important thing is that you clean and lube it regularly. Also keep the chain adjusted.
As long as you lube your chain after cleaning it, a cleaner slipping past the O-Ring itself isn't going to harm the chain. O-rings don't create a vacuum seal so as long as the cleaner isn't degrading the rings themselves, you're in good shape. I love motul chain cleaner and their lubricant is right up there with pj1 blue label for me.
@@TheWobbinator1 Isn't it a problem if the cleaner leak past the o-ring, dissolve the grease inside and leak out, taking the grease with it? What we need to know is if this scenario is possible. If not, the cleaner leaking in shouldn't raise any issues.
I think it's important to find out if orings we're lubed before they were tightened, because if they weren't, it's very possible that the orings tore, skewing results.
Meanwhile the motorcycle community and people I used to ride with thought I was stupid for using simple green so they used motul and motorex instead. Thanks for the great content as always Fortnine.
@@deathwish8339 my experience isn't that I get 10x longevity, I'm pretty diligent about keeping my chain lubed. Squirt some slippery gunk on it every other day and it lasts about 3/4 the time. Last time I bought one it was half price, not a fifth though. You pricing bicycle chains or something? I'll probably have to change my tune soon though, I'm looking at aluminum sprockets. I'll need a modern chain then.
Brilliant point regarding a cleaner washing past the O-rings! I originally did that long soak video after seeing a much shorter test by Motorcyclist Magazine (looking back on our old videos is never a good idea - how did I think that audio was okay?!). I've unlisted it now, as while products like WD-40 won't damage an O-ring, I certainly wouldn't recommend cleaning a chain with something that's predominantly solvent, and has such good penetrative qualities. I'm working on lube and cleaner tests at the moment - I did scrap the plans after seeing yours, but have picked it up again as I'll be focussing more on products available in the UK. As always, top work! Cheers, John Milbank
Would love to see normal motorcycle cleaners in there like S100 and Fenwick's!! It is quite convenient to use the same cleaner and wash chain at same time.
@@conradsimas2191 In that case, here you go. A FULL test of 69 cleaners... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9NsFLPDgFqA.html Cheers, John
WD-40 makes a chain cleaner specific product and it’s far more effective than regular wd-40. It comes out in a jet and foams on contact. It’s what I’m currently using, seems to work well but it would’ve been cool to see it in this vid.
23k miles on stock chain, SUZ DR650 unmodified. Mostly commuting, occasional sandy trail rides. Cleaned every 600 miles (or after each sand ride, whichever came first) with kerosene, lubed with Maxima Chain Wax. I really can't argue with that kind of longevity. However, I might convert to Simple Green after seeing this vid. Thanks for all you do.
"A success otherwise known as failure" Thanks for videos like this so I can keep referring back to your mostly scientific and unbiased reviews on maintenance products.
This is where logic surpasses emotion. I LOVE bikes with all my heart, but I buy with my head. This review is orders of magnitude more informative than any other I have seen. And some of the innuendo is just delicious! You are the best , Ryan. Respect and fame become you.
You have to be careful when testing on balloons, not just because they will explode, but because of the rubber composition. Other than specialist balloons, most that you buy at your local store, etc are made from natural latex. The chain's X and O rings are made from Nitrile. Nitrile can be of many different compositions depending on what it is to be used for therefore it is highly likely that Kerosene will have no affect on those Nitrile O and X ring seals. (In fact one of the reasons that Nitrile is generally used in industry, etc, is its resistance to oils and fuels.) Suzuki used O ring chains, originally made by DID but not sure if they still are, and were recommending cleaning the chain with Kerosene and probably still are. So unless the balloon was made of Nitrile then that part of the test was a fail, though funny.
5:28 *"Now, responsible adults have great concern for the integrity of their rubber."* I seem to be hearing something else unrelated to chain cleaning in the background
Ryan you are the hardest working guy in the Moto RU-vid world, the lube and cleaning test for chain products was very well done. I learned more than I thought possible, Thanks to my favorite Canadian on two wheels.
I've been using WD40 as a cleaner for 30 years now and have always gotten good lifespan out of my chains. Thanks to these results I'll continue to use WD40.
This is one of the best consumer product tests I've ever seen in the motorcycle world--the only competition being your chain lube test. Unfortunately, we basically can't get Ipone in the states. So simple green + my 360 degree brush it is for me...
Your videos are truly the best, the way you test things and the production quality are out of this world ryan. Keep it going, the motorcycle community loves you !
After experimenting with a few things I just settled on using gear oil both to clean and to lubricate my chain. It's cheap, accessible, safe for your seals, it's what my bike manufacturer recommends and if some of it stays in your chain after you wipe it off it won't cause any problems. The way I do it is: - Apply the thickest and cheapest gear oil I could buy on the dirty chain. I have a small thumb pump oiler just for that. - Use a chain brush to break free any solid particles that have stuck so they are in suspension in said oil - Wipe it all off with a rag or shop towel - Apply gear oil on the now clean chain - Spread it and wipe the excess with a clean rag or shop towel It takes less than 5 minutes to do and I do it once a week without any issues. IMO chain cleaners and specialized lubricants are just a way to extract more money out of you. Exception may be done for chain wax if you drive a lot through very wet conditions so it makes a barrier against corrosion that will stay on your chain better.
I have been going crazy from so much conflicting info out there, but I think I will try your method with gear oil only. Thanks for the info. Can I ask, is 75W-90 ok? Or should I go with a heavier oil?
I've been using only WD-40 on my chain for cleaning and lubing for years and have gotten 30,000 kms out of most chains. I spray it on after every ride whether I do a 700 km day or only 10 kms to Timmies for a coffee. Chain looks brand new all the time. Only time you get any fling off on the rear wheel is if you spray it on and then immediately go riding. Wait a while and it will dry and you will never get any fling off. I do about 18000 kms per season here in Canada and go through about three cans a year @ $6.00 can x 3 for $18.00 yearly.
Ryan has turned his channel into the most informative and hilarious and thereby the best on here. Great product testing providing you can see through the tears of laughter.
Great video, very well done using a scientific method. I was very surprised on the O-ring bypass test, especially sense most chain manufactures recommend Kerosene as a cleaner. I think your test fixture could be causing more random results than the affect cleaner type. I suspect that using HVAC sheet metal is way too thin to have consistent o-ring pressure, even when applying constant torque. The thin metal could collapse and randomly cause a leak path past the ring. I think if you had a metal cup with the same thickness as the a typical link plate your results could be very different.
Shared some concern here. Were these holes all drilled to the same tolerance? Did the metal deform under load, causing the o-ring surface to be anything but planar?
As Honda described in one of her old Japanese site.... Paraffin oil is the best Cleaner! I use simple Paraffin oil bought from a pharamacy. You can't imagine! Simply the Best. But i did love your test comparison
Guys, Here is the Original Semitic Text. HERE is The Savior YaH The Heavenly FATHER HIMSELF was Who they Crucified for our sins and “HERE IS THE PROOF” From the Ancient Semitic Scroll: "Yad He Vav He" is what Moses wrote, when Moses asked YaH His Name (Exodus 3) Ancient Semitic Direct Translation Yad - "Behold The Hand" He - "Behold the Breath" Vav - "Behold The NAIL"
I find this test misleading. Rubber o-rings are not made from the same material as a balloon. These rings need to withstand extreme temperatures (heat from the chain itself & winter cold) as well as abrasion... definitely not a balloon material, maybe vulcanized or synthetic rubber.
Holy cow... It’s HeroRR! This is like going to the MotoGP and there’s Rossi sitting in front of you. Oh, and yeah, great video Ryan. I had already settled on Ipone after trying different cleaners over the years; now I know why. Great stuff. The video I mean. You to HeroRR.
The chain gets clean indeed until you gotta throw it away as it destroys the o-ring. Bad experience with that, i still have a can left in the garage: i use it to clean everything else but the new chain i had to buy...
@@scldma114 cheers for the info pal, only used it once worked wondersbut if buggers chain orings then will just ise it to clean areas of bike and what would you recommend for chain? Ta pal
60,000KMs on a DID chain mounted to a ZX-12R here. Cleaned with nothing but kerosene. Sometimes lubed with Maxima Chain Wax... Sometimes nothing. The chain still had life left and no issues. Simply replaced because I didn't want to push my luck. Your results may vary...
So, after having watched both of these totally excellent videos (chain clean, chain lube), for the bargain shoppers amongst us, it's WD-40 to clean (because most importantly, it does not penetrate the O or X rings), and gear oil for lube? That is great info. And here I used to clean my X-ring chains with kerosene, on the regular. Not no mo. Thanks Ryan and crew, this is news we can use.
Eh...WD-40 and a brush & old rag to clean the chain, and Bel-Ray Super Clean for a lube. Flawless. I'd use Ipone to clean, but have yet to find anyone selling it in the US.
I just use diesel to clean and lithium grease to lubricate. Both cheap and readily available. Motorcycle specific products tend to be overpriced in my opinion.
i use the maxima clean up, you must be apply the product over the chain brushed it and immediately washed with fresh water. the chemistry reaction is complete only mixed for water.
Plus, its French, so very expensive and not very effective. I can use dawn soap and give me a minute with a brush can get the chain looking very clean. So, dont fall for expensive ipone, kerosene works just fine. Plus, used motorex for over 10 years, never had a chain failure, use it every 3-400 miles, chains always lasted over 20k miles. No x or oring failures.
I have had good results using Muc Off. It may not perform the best on the cleaning score, but I like that it doesn’t penetrate the seals and is highly available where I live. Great review!!
Thanks for this test! I agree, a cleaner leaking past/around the o-ring/x-ring into the factory grease is a NO-GO! Kerosene surprised me on that test, as that has always been my chosen cleaner.
Survival Citizen I'd like to see all those tests repeated a few times with something stronger than that weak sheet metal in between the seals. That leakage was definitely from the test components failing, no reason any liquid will leak through that fast if there is a good seal.
I just want to point out that for serious racers or trackday guys I think Muc-Off is clear winner for both cleaner and lube. Since the track is generally clean and the chain won't collect a ton of sludge before each clean (basically each day out) it doesn't need to be really strong on sludge. It also provides adequate cleaning just spraying the chain. Lastly it doesn't damage o-rings. Most importantly though trackday bikes and race bikes go through a cleaning (or should at least) every time it's done a day on the track so the demands work perfectly for Muc Off. And for lubing it's the same story, Muc-Off doesn't sling (so your exhaust/sponsors stickers isn't covered in burnt lube) and it provides least resistance to the rollers (super important on a race bike). The other two categories of grit sticking and rusting are negligible for the same reasons as above, the chain gets cleaned and serviced very frequently. Cheers
This actually convinced me to get simple green. Average to above average performance, can be found anywhere, can be found very cheap especially if you find it on sale which it is bound to be because it’s a household product
i use kerosene to clean my chains.. after 5 minutes spraying kerosene, i brush it with nilon brush.. sprayed kerosene again after 5 minutes i clean it with a clothe.. then after wiping out all kerosene and dirt, i washed it with dish washing soap.. then dry it very well.. lastly i use gear oil to lubricate my chains.. preserved my chains for 4 years.. it is still new, take note! i used my motor daily..
Spot on! Latex react to Hydrocarbons, hence the balloon popped. Good luck finding Latex in chain o-, x- or z-rings. different composition all together.
I ride my bike to warm up the chain and remove all the chain guards. I use hot water with dawn dish washing soap in a spray bottle and in a bucket with a chain brush. Does a great job cleaning the chain and all the areas the chain spreads the junk. As I do this in my gravel driveway I don't worry about putting chemicals into the ground, after all they wash baby ducks with this stuff. I lube the chain with gear oil that I put on the inside of the chain so it works its way out. Wipe off the excess with shop paper towel, reinstall the guards and I'm done. Really affordable products that work as well as expensive ones.
I'm with you there, also been using Kerosene. A can of Ipone is around $33 AUD for a can (750ml), while a 1L concentrate of Simple Green is $10 AUD and will make 5L. Cleaners I'm not super fussed about, as long as it gets the gunk off and doesn't damage anything it's all good so I'm not dropping $33 if there's a cheap option. I'm interested to see what the lubricant video comes up with, as that's what actually matters. Currently using a heavy weight engine oil for that.
For a fellow Oceanian chain lube perspective, over here in NZ I'm using Penrite (an Aussie company) "chain lube road", which cost me NZD$23 for a 400mL aerosol can. It's non-fling (read: extremely tacky) and seems to do a pretty damn good job. I used quite a bit the first time, but it's adhered so well to the chain that I've not needed to use any more since - even after washing the bike there's a definite layer of lubricant still on the chain. Doesn't seem to attract much grime, like engine oil would.
@@dustinedmundsonI've been sticking with the Honda chain lube my old man told me to get, but I gave Penrite's chain cleaner a go. it'd be interesting to see how that stacks up here. Penrite's cleaner foams up and the shit just streams off
Rich people thing i guess ... I watch all the video in 240p any thing more than that and my data will leak like kerosene through rubber seal PS: I DON'T HAVE WI-FI CONNECTION,I GET 2 GB OF 4G DATA EVERY DAY, FOR 3 MONTHS IN ALMOST 7.5 $$
Mr. Ryan, you sir are in ny top 3 favorite RU-vid channels over all. Which I know isn't saying much because I'm a nobody but considering how many interests I have, and subsequent channels I watch, there are a ton of contenders lol. And one of the reasons you are at the top is your pure consistency.
All fortnines vids are so much more helpful and informative then i expect when i click on them. Always leaves me with the feeling of “wow that was a really well made video” and end up clicking on the next.
There was something wrong with his seal penetration test. The point of seals is that things don't just sneak past by magic. I work with orings every day and they keep pressurized gasses in place, there is no way in hell kerosene is slipping past.
I think that SG has the lowest environmental impact. Non aerosol, citrus based and available in gallon jugs. It works well as a general degreaser to clean the snot off your bikes as well. Great test 👍👍
Diesel is chemically almost identical to Kerosene, with a few additives for high pressure combustion, to reduce emissions. You should get similar results.
I wouldn't use them interchangeably in a vehicle, but kerosene and diesel are functionally identical as far as their uses as a solvent go. I use a kerosene heater when I'm working in my garage during the winter and I put diesel in it instead. It smells pretty bad but there's nowhere near me that sells kerosene for an affordable price.
The Honda chain cleaner has impressed me. You spray it on and rinse it off with water. It did such a good job I didn't feel the need to scrub the chain.
Super thorough and empirical as ever. It's like these manufacturers have all reinvented the wheel, with varying results. I know what I'll be using from now on. Cheers
I have been using WD-40. I resonate with what Ryan said about it and found it interesting that it doesn't penetrate the o-rings. Not that I have an 0-ring chain but handy for the future...
Cool video, I've tried most of these and Maxima chain cleaner makes my chain spotless compared to others even though it preformed poorly in your tests, I think there could be a lot more variables that can affect performance...ie what kind of lube was on the chain previously, seemed like certain parts of the chain were dirtier etc etc..
my only argument with the tests, rubber Orings, X and Z rings are made from hardier stuff than balloons, they are designed to withstand chemical treatment.
